r/TheLastAirbender • u/ExpressionOk5311 • 1d ago
Discussion How would the series have changed if Azula was banished and joined the team avatar instead of Zuko?
Let's imagine that, in this hypothetical alternate universe, Azula failed Ozai terribly as a child, so she was banished from the Fire Nation (while Zuko remained). She was sent with Iroh to hunt down the Avatar.
Both Iroh and Azula bonded during this time, and Iroh decided to try to change Azula just as he did with Zuko in the main universe. How will things change here? What will Azula's redemption look like? Do you think Azula will be able to abandon her obsession with the Avatar and her desire to return to the Fire Nation like Zuko did? Will she eventually join Team Avatar? What would her dynamic be like with Sokka, Katara, Toph, and Aang?
Remember that Zuko remained with Ozai in this universe, so he will eventually be sent to hunt down Team Avatar. How will his character change in this scenario?
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u/FENIU666 1d ago
You basically described "What if Zuko was female and had an overachieving psycho of a brother"
What does she keep to make her different from Female Zuko? Is she still crazy, talented with bending and intelligent? She might be more clever and catch aang sooner. Maybe kill him right away.
Otherwise it's just the same story, but Azula becomes a side protagonist instead of Zuko.
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u/terra_terror 1d ago
Yeah, what makes the character who they are is also the reason the plot happens the way it does. You can't reverse what happened without reversing their personalities and skills.
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u/learningtheworld22 1d ago
She wouldnāt. Sheād have snagged Aang immediately and brought him back to her father and redeemed her honor.
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u/Pretty_Food 1d ago
I love Azula, but we see that she failed time and time again to capture the Avatar, as well as Zuko and Iroh. Avatar state, return to Omashu, the chase, the drill etc. Surely sheās more effective than Zuko, but letās not exaggerate.
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u/NoPaleontologist6583 1d ago
Aang never fights her off on his own. What tends to happen is that someone else attacks and knocks her back a bit, allowing Aang to escape. In the Drill, for example, Katara and Toph damage the Drill, Azula is knocked away from Aang, and he them finishes off the drill while she is out of the way. But at the end of the episode, Azula still has possession of the Drill, her enemies have fled it.
In Book 1, Aang has no allies of comparable strength. He would have to fight her off on his own. He has not done that in any encounter with her. His strength is in his allies. But in Book 1, he lacks sufficiently strong allies.
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u/Pretty_Food 1d ago
Yes, but itās also true that in episodes like The Drill, Aang was already exhausted from trying to break through the drillās outer shell. Also, the last move before Katara and Toph damaged the drill was Aang throwing her away (if I remember correctly). Itās a recurring pattern. For one reason or another, whether in Azulaās favor or not, she doesnāt defeat him (until she strikes him with lightning when heās entering the avatar state).
In episodes like Return to Omashu, The Drill, or The Chase, Azula has Mai and Ty Leeās support to deal with Katara (who, itās true, became more powerful starting from The Siege of the North), Sokka, and even Appa. In this case, Azula would be practically alone, since she couldnāt count on them, and sheād only have soldiers about as competent as Zukoās, meaning much less than what she had in avatar state, which itself wasnāt all that much. Thatās why I say she would be more effective than Zuko, but not infallible either.
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u/C_fisher2226 1d ago edited 1d ago
Eh she tried a few times and it didnāt work. She only eventually succeeded in shooting Aang because she had Zuko and the dai liās help, and still didnāt succeed in capturing him alive
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u/GatePorters 1d ago
lol I canāt argue with that.
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u/IceBlue 1d ago
You can because thereās no evidence sheād be effective at doing it since sheās had chances to capture him and failed.
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u/GatePorters 1d ago
Okay maybe you can argue it lol
But without Zuko to train Aang in fleeing, would she be able to speedrun him before Aang got so much real world experience?
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u/Nathanii_593 18h ago
Azula never had any intention of capturing the avatar. She was always out for the kill. Thereās more glory going to the firelord and saying āI killed the avatarā vs āI captured the avatarā
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u/Chazo138 1d ago
She would also likely have burnt the SWT to the ground for defying her.
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u/Pretty_Food 1d ago
Surely not. She had a few chances to do something like that and didnāt do it.
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u/Chazo138 1d ago
If she were desperate to get her honor back it would be different. She doesnāt manage well when shit goes really bad.
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u/Pretty_Food 1d ago
Not really. Most of the time she failed to capture the Avatar, as well as Zuko and Iroh, and she never tried something like that even though she could have. Even at her worst, the most she did was banish everyone even when she thought they were going to betray or kill her. We know sheās bad, but letās not exaggerate.
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u/Ok_Somewhere1236 1d ago
Azula dont care about Honor, her whole thing is fear of abandoment and power, she would maybe hurt someone to get Aang to reveal himself, but burning the whole tribe is the time of things she would see as "pointless"
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u/External-Ad2509 1d ago
We literally saw how she gets when shit goes really bad. She didnāt do or even try anything like that. Where do people get so many things about this character from?
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u/jaylee686 1d ago
These "what-if" scenarios are pretty impossible to predict because being Ozai's favorite child (and similarly, Zuko being the disliked child) is so inherent to who Azula is, as the character we know. Asking, "what if she got banished because Ozai thought she was a failure" is effectively asking, "what if Azula wasn't Azula?"
The sad truth is, we don't know how much of her personality is nurture or nature, but, like with most people, it's probably a combination of both. From flashbacks, we see that she had a sadistic streak as a young child-- but we also see that even back then, she was Ozai's favorite and clearly influenced by him, and she had a strained relationship with her mother, who (likely in response to Ozai's favoritism toward Azula) favored Zuko instead. Her being as gifted as she was from birth (as Zuko said "born lucky") set her along her path as "Ozai's favorite."
So yeah, we don't know what she'd be like if she wasn't Ozai's favorite-- if she grew up with Ursa (and Iroh) favoring her, outside of Ozai's influence, her personality would almost certainly be different to an extent. We just don't know how much. Maybe she had the capacity within her to be a good person. Maybe she didn't.
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u/FractionofaFraction 1d ago
Azula would have succeeded or driven herself mad trying.
The wildcard is whether or not Iroh went with her and was able to get past the years of emotional abuse from Ozai.
Obviously if Azula, Aang and Toph were all on the same side Ozai would've been dead / captured within 3-5 days.
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u/ChefArtorias 1d ago
So did Azula learn the lessons and compassion that Zuko did from both Iroh and Ursa? If so the stories will likely be similar, just gender swapped.
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u/Xenozip3371Alpha 1d ago
Azula failed to catch Aang even a single time WITH the backing of the Fire Nation, and only "killed" him with Zuko's help and back-up from the Dai Li.
When Zuko was banished he had ONE ship crewed by regular Fire Nation soldiers.
If that's all the resources Azula has, she's screwed.
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u/enchiladasundae 1d ago
Azula is far more unbalanced than Zuko. Iroh would most likely just teach her how to be more level headed and calm as opposed to any techniques as sheās still a prodigy. Sheād probably try to date Aang and/or Sokka giving her a more pronounced antagonism with Katara
She probably joins much sooner, season 2 maybe, realizing she could probably manipulate Aang into fighting her battles as a pawn but ultimately opens up more and fully turns. Aang consequently learns fire bending much sooner
Zuko is closer to an ideal child for Ozai. An heir who can potentially carry on his legacy even if he plans to rule forever. Zuko is more obedient and a heroic figure in the fire nation, similar to Iroh. More hands on with troops we see him occasionally at the frontlines of conflicts but not as a specialist like Azula, more a general trusted with keeping troops alive. He comes to odds against Ozai after retreating during a critical battle, seeing any further engagement to lead to unnecessary losses. Iād say this fuels him to eventually turn against Ozai, maybe near the end like at the Black Sun raid he just steps aside for them without a fight. Seeing his father as an obstacle to be removed so he can rule the fire nation more peacefully. Ozai sees Zuko a lot like Azulon, a measured ruler who wonāt go too far but Zuko ends up being more like Sozin, a calculating person willing to bide his time for opportunities
She doesnāt end up with Sokka or Aang. Essentially just realizes she has a lot more growth to do. No fight with Zuko. She outright refuses the throne as she doesnāt feel it would work. Zuko can be a looming threat though on the surface he does oppose the needless slaughter and expansion of the fire nation. He bides his time on the off chance the inevitable technological superiority of the fire nation they essentially become a super power by economic and technological means, reliant on them for essentially any and all advancements
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u/NoPaleontologist6583 1d ago
Zuko cares that other people - especially Ozai and Iroh - think well of him. His problem is that they want different things. He defects because he has to chose between them, and picks Iroh.
Azula cares about what she thinks is right. Unfortunately for us, she thinks it right to be loyal to her father and the Fire Nation. To get her to defect, you would probably need to get her to think that the Fire Lord and the Fire Nation should be ultimately loyal to the Avatar. And that her father has treasonably rebelled against him, as he treasonably rebelled against his elder brother.
It would be a bit like trying to persuade someone in Shogun to betray her lord to serve the Pope. Not going to be easy.
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u/Final-Mountain8200 1d ago
Azulaang
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u/HAZMAT_Eater 1d ago
Finally the correct answer.
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u/Final-Mountain8200 11h ago
Would have lowkey been a nice ship if Azula wasnāt evil
Cuz if aang was there she would have received support from him and Zuko and not gone insaneĀ
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u/Strawberrycocoa 1d ago
Azula would try and fail to capture the Avatar, and then do the same heel-turn Zuko did, but for a different reason: Azula would realize after a couple failures that her best strategy is to play the Long Game.
Here's how I see this scenario playing out: Azula is banished, and sent with Iroh to hunt the avatar. She doesn't give a shit about her honor, but she DOES crave her father's approval, much more so than Zuko did. She wants to be his favorite child again, his right hand prodigy. In the mainline canon, Azula's entire psyche broke once she saw people making her second priority. She can't handle the idea that she isn't The Best, the First Pick. THAT is what she would want to reclaim, not honor or love. Azula would want her status back.
So: Azula and Iroh hunt the Avatar. They try and fail more than once. Iroh tries to council his niece to seek balance and calm. Azula wants none of it, but puts up with Iroh for the sake of fulfilling her goal. Season 1 plays out the same with one crucial difference: Azula doesn't help Aang escape when Zhao captures him. They never have that moment where Aang sees the potential for good in his hunter.
Season 2, Azula follows the same thread and leaves Iroh to pursue her own way. Instead of wandering the land, meeting people and trying to start a new life, Azula would keep her ear to the ground and hunt the Avatar singlemindedly. She'd keep showing up to pick a fight with them, and failing, until she realizes that she needs a new strategy. From there, she would continue following Team Avatar, but instead of attacking them, she would make sure they see her helping. She'd foil attempts on their life, deliberately let them go, all to plant seeds of possible trust in their hearts. When Zuko attacks in Bah Sing Se, Azula turns on him and helps Aang AND Iroh escape.
Entering the events of Season 3, Azula saw an opportunity in Ba Sing Se to fulfill her long con of getting behind enemy lines. She plays the part of a repentant, and Iroh grasps at the chance that his niece might have finally begun to see the Better Way. He speaks in her defense, and Toph backs him up since she's friends with Iroh from their previous encounters. This gets Team Avatar to trust Azula enough to stay with them, and teach Aang Firebending. She teaches him enough to be competent, but holds back on teaching him the more advanced techniques she knows.
The adventure to the Sun Warriors happens with Iroh instead, and left alone with Aang he starts to notice that his proficiency is not right. He can tell Aang hasn't been trained correctly. Azula uses the adventure with Katara to the Southern Raiders to get on her good side, but also to covertly contect Ozai, giving him advance notice of her true intentions. Boiling Rock is where she makes her move. She betrays Sokka and offers him up as a prisoner of war to show her good faith. When she returns from the 'fishing trip', it's with the dirigible fleet pretty much same as the mainline canon. Azula AND Zuko lead the attack to ambush Team Avatar as she fully betrays their trust. They escape, with Iroh abandoning his niece to stay with Aang. Iroh takes the role of Aang's firebending teacher, giving him correct instruction and counsel.
During the finale leadup, Iroh joins Sokka to meet with the White Lotus, and the battle against the dirigible fleet mostly plays out the same, except Iroh manages to save Sokka's space sword, because Piandao would never let him hear the end of it if he didn't (Iroh jokes). The Agni Kai during the finale still happens, but it's a reunited, coordinated, and cooperating Zuko and Azula vs Toph and Katara. Just like the mainline, this is where Azula's main weakness (her psyche) plays out, but instead of a mental break, it's her arrogance and pride and her need to be The Best that trips her up. Azula sees Zuko get the upper hand and look to be winning the fight, and she starts getting in his way to make sure SHE gets the killing blows and the glory, not Zuko. Once they stop cooperating, Toph and Katara pick them apart easily. They're taken prisoner, and this is where Azula loses it. She resorts to begging, trying to play out the trust they once shared, swearing she'll never betray them again, but not even Aang buys it.
Without a worthy successor to the throne, Iroh reluctantly takes leadership as head of the war council, leaving the actual title of Firelord vacant. Iroh spearheads the reformation of the Fire Nation alongside the assistance of the Avatar, ultimately turning the Fire Nation into a republic lead by elected council, not a single ruler. The era of rule by bloodline in the Fire Nation ends as they turn to balance and peace.
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u/Emma__O Kuvira Apologist 22h ago
In the mainline canon, Azula's entire psyche broke once she saw people making her second priority
No, she broke because her ideology of using fear failed and everyone she loved betrayed her anyways. That's why she had all those persecutory delusions. It's also why she hallucinated Ursa, the first traitor, Azula tried to be the opposite of her because she thought Ursa didn't love her.
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u/C_fisher2226 1d ago
We can imagine a scenario where she was banished, but thereās no scenario where Azula joined the gaang without fundamentally changing her character. Thatās kind of the point of Azula as a character: to be a counter balance to Zuko. To show how hard it was for somebody in Zukoās position to be good. Azula was in his possession and was very not good.
If Azula was banished, she would either become some sort of warlord or dictator somewhere, or try to capture Aang to rejoin the fire nation just like Zuko did. Only she wouldnāt turn good.
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u/AllergicToStabWounds 1d ago
If Azula and Iroh were exiled together, Iroh would've been the first to defect to team avatar. The only reason he didn't before was that he believed Zuko was a compassionate boy who only needed guidance. Iroh thinks Azula needs help too, but he also sees her as too dangerous and unstable to help with his subtle approach. If Iroh tried to stick around and help persuade her to change her ways, she might've actually killed him and exposed the white lotus in order "to restore her honor."
I can imagine him getting along great with the Aang Gang and being a phenomenal fire bending teacher. He'd be heartbroken though that he'd need to fight against his people and likely kill his remaining family to restore balance to the world.
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u/dirksbutt 1d ago
All these posts making me want a what if series for the last Airbender! Forget the new show.
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u/thebinha 1d ago
With them keeping their past and personalities, the only scenario where I can see this is if Ozai thought Azula was too impredictible to be trusted. And Zuko would not stay still watching his dad burn half of his little sister head in an agni kai and being banned to complete such an insane task. He'd at least try to join her and if he didn't, it would be cuz Iroh promised him he'd take care of Azula. I think this event could radicalize him into questioning the ways of the fire nation in a way his own banishment didn't cuz he believed he was a loser anyway, but watching it from the outside is different. So he would likely end up with his ass exiled as well and joining azula, or maybe he'd get to sabotage the fire nation a little or help the resistance, maybe he'd just get caught and killed for treason... As for Azula, she'd go mad way before aang got out of that iceberg. Would she direct her madness to Zuko since her weak brother should be the one exiled and throw him to the wolves in the first opportunity? Would she just start causing havoc everywhere she could, burning down villages until someone got her the avatar? Maybe she'd conquer ba sing se or the north water tribe? But what if she directs the anger to Ozai? She could be training to defy him again. She could even join Aang when he appeared just to make it easier for her. And here's where we pray that Iroh's attempts at teaching, her brother siding with her instead of embracing the position of favorite child he always dreamed of, Mai and Ty Lee attempts of saving their friend's sanity and her time with the gaang will make her stop plotting to use the avatar to get power and realize power won't replace what she longs for.
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u/No_Probleh 1d ago
If she was banished, and that's a big if, she would probably have a mental break similar to what happened at the end of the last season. Then she would become even more obsessed with catching the Avatar, I'd assume. And it would be worse than Zuko because she'd be manic, too. Honestly she's probably more desperate for her father's approval than Zuko was in the early seasons.
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u/False_Collar_6844 1d ago
She'd likely figure out the the Fire nation is wrong faster than Zuko did, based on the comics where she abandons her dad after one session in the Spirit temple.
not right away, she would have to row a support system first and Iroh would have to earn her trust but it would be quicker than Zuko, we'll say around moon spirit death. She's younger so not as corrupter so her good qualities would be able to come out quicker.
I see Zuko going two ways;
- He bonds with Ozai over being the "not prodigy" changing his inferiority complex to a feeling of superiority over his 'childish little sister". The mission Azula gets given would either be given to him and he manages to bring her home He doesn't take Ba Sing Se but maybe he weakens it's defenses. he gives her no credit for this but does try to advocate for her to come home aruing that she was courrupted and manipulated/held prisoner. Ozai would have heard enough about any bending/tactical feats she managed to recognise a resource and obliges.
2.he continues to be a failure and gets quietly killed by 'filthy earth kingdom assasins"
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u/Stevylesteve 21h ago
Thats a HUGE hypothetical, To the point of them just being entirely different characters
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u/mutated_Pearl 7h ago edited 4h ago
Azula would be the Avatar and peace and love would prevail in the world.
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u/PopularElk4665 1d ago edited 1d ago
does azula stop being a psychopath in this scenario? that's kind of a big deal to address here, azula was acting like a little serial killer for pretty much as far back as the story covers her life iirc. zuko is naturally empathetic and caring and was corrupted by his dad becoming the only influence on his life for a while and then getting burned and banished. his journey concluded the way it did because of his nature as a person. i don't see azula being put through similar circumstances changing azula for the better or iroh being able to get through to her because she seems to not love or respect him at all. iroh was able to help zuko because zuko loves and respects him, and despite him being so hard headed for most of the series, iroh is eventually able to get through to him, and his influence goes as far back as their relationship does and the change he's able to affect in zuko is a culmination of the entire history of their relationship. if zuko always genuinely saw iroh as pathetic he probably would have seen him as a burden rather than a beloved traveling companion and father figure and friend. that's how i see azula viewing him if she were stuck with him, she would see him as a burden and a nuisance.
if she ever had the possibility of joining aang and the others, i don't see her making it in at all, or if she did, they wouldn't have kept her around for long because what she is as a person is so fundamentally incompatible with them. her motivation at that point would be throwing her hat in with the avatar because she decided that he is either more powerful, or is capable of being more powerful than ozai, so working with the avatar would be her way of usurping the throne in a power hungry tyrant kind of way, and with the way she is, she doesn't have a problem with what the fire nation is doing, but being power hungry, she would prefer to be in charge of it and she has no problem stabbing anyone in the back to get what she wants. in a literal sense, zuko usurped the fire lord role from ozai but he did it because he realized the fire nation was doing evil stuff and he wanted to stop it and help aang return the world to a state of balance and peace. aang wouldn't help her or ally with her because they aren't stupid and they would all see things for how they are with azula, which would just be her wanting to get rid of ozai just to keep doing the same thing under new leadership and the problem doesn't get solved.
this is all assuming she would even try to side with aang. i think she would just want to kill him and never change her mind about it. she doesn't see anything over the course of atla that makes her believe aang is more powerful than ozai. an alternative i suppose would be if tried the same thing jet did with aang and katara and sokka, doing evil things and getting them to help, but framing it as good and hiding the parts they wouldn't like. if that ever did work with aang it wouldn't work for long, he's not an idiot and i don't think the plot would allow it. he would find out about it given enough time.
i also want to make clear that the perspective i'm coming from is that i don't every character makes sense as a blank slate that you could just all throw into the same situation and get roughly the same outcome. well you could but the resultant outcome could feel unrealistic and fanfictiony and an astroturfing of established characterization. to me, expecting azula to be able to be able to go through any kind of similar character growth in the same circumstances that zuko did feels that way to me. they are fundamentally very different characters, you could say they are exact opposites. i don't know if i would go so far as to say that azula is completely irredeemable, i just don't see her taking the cards zuko was dealt and turning them into anything vaguely as productive and healthy and what zuko did. you need to change a lot of fundamental aspects of azula's character to make this make sense and i don't think you need to get very far into that before she just becomes a completely different character with the same face, voice, and name.
edit- lol ok i guess this sub doesn't want a realistic take on this, only fanfic.
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u/Sola_Sista_94 1d ago
If Azula did try joining them, we'd probably be able to see her say, "Listen, avatar, I can join you, or I can do something unspeakable to you and your friends. Your choice," after all. XD