r/TheLastAirbender • u/Coffee_Queen_97 • 1d ago
Discussion Honestly I like both of them. I don’t get why Avatar Movies are so hated so much. They both had deep storytelling.
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u/BowlEducational6722 1d ago
Avatar is ok. It's not bad, and it is very pretty, but a lot of it is carried by its visuals. In terms of story and characters though it's just kind of there.
Honestly if it weren't for the visuals it probably would have been forgotten, and frankly it kind of was for the better part of a decade.
Not worth the hate, but also not worth the praise imo.
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u/benabramowitz18 1d ago
Marvel movies and Jurassic World also have shallow storytelling. But the Internet accepts that those have a loyal and casual audience and just moves on afterward.
But Avatar lives rent-free in the Internet's mind. It's also carried by visuals, but those visuals are good enough to carry it to the Oscars.
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u/micromax2944 1d ago
Really depends on the marvel movie. A lot of CBMs in general have deeper narratives than avatar 1 and 2.
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u/EmpressOfHyperion 1d ago
Avatar was one of the highest grossing films upon release, no? It was extremely popular, even if the story is very generic.
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u/Dewshawnmandik 1d ago
100% dependent on the visuals (and higher 3D ticket prices) as others have said. I personally had my mind blown in theaters when the little jellyfish looking animals were floating in the forest and it seemed as if I could hold them in my hand.
Also, James Cameron already had an all time filmography under his belt and this was his decades long passion project so it probably got film buffs in off of that along with the the casual viewers in off of the visuals and 3D aspect.
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u/Consistent-Amoeba-84 1d ago
Exactly, i was blown away as a little kid and so was my dad when 3d animation started getting as advanced as it was. It was unlike anything we’d seen yet
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u/8avian6 1d ago
It became the highest grossing film of it's time purely off of marketing and flashy visuals. After the hype died down a year or so after the film came out, most people saw it for what it was: a popcorn flick that was all flash and no substance.
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u/FlopsMcDoogle 1d ago
You realize the sequel is 3rd highest grossing film ever, only behind Avatar and Endgame.
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u/8avian6 1d ago
And? The sequel only did well because of marketing and brand recognition like the origin. And just like the original, the sequel is largely regarded as an all flash no substance popcorn flick.
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u/YouDumbZombie 1d ago
Then the sequel came out and it became the highest grossing movie again..
I don't understand why people hate the success of these films to the point of lying about it.
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u/8avian6 1d ago
The only one lying here is you. The sequel only did well for the same reason the original did: marketing, flashy visuals, and brand recognition. The amount of money a film makes is not reflective of how good or well liked it is. Michael Bay movies consistently make truck loads of money and yet consistently are universally hated. Same with Disney live action remakes.
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u/quirky_perky_Villain 18h ago
yeah this. they really did a good job on the visuals, especially for back then. so i can’t complain
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u/spaceforcerecruit 1d ago
I said, walking out of the theater, that if I hadn’t seen it in 3D, I’d have felt ripped off because the story wasn’t worth watching without the amazing special effects.
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u/Gaitarou 1d ago
“Deep storytelling?” No offense but the blue people movie is more like a shallow pond
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u/pinupcthulhu 1d ago
Just because it's just blue man group Pocahontas doesn't mean it deserves this shade! /s
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u/password-is-taco1 1d ago
I think the plot of the first movie is actually underrated, the second one is pretty basic. But both movies build a beautiful world that justifies the movies’ existence
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u/blinglorp 1d ago
Avatar the movie is not a very deep story.
It’s literally blue cat pocahontas.
Incredibly overrated franchise.
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u/HUNAcean 1d ago
While I agree that it is not particularly deep in storytelling or even that the characters are kind of meh, it think it isn't overrated. Underrated, even, so many people hate on it.
Avatar is a celebration of the visual arts and the incredible, breathtaking worlds we can imagine and bring to life. It is cinema (not the art, but the actual theatre, the physical attendance) pushed to its absolute limit. If all movies were like that, mid story with incredible visuals, that would be horrible, but just one franchise that is focused on cinematography and visual artistic expression absolutle has a palce in culture.
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u/blinglorp 1d ago edited 21h ago
Counter point,
Movies are supposed to be enjoyable. Avatar was not.
It was incredibly boring. Which is the worst thing a movie can be.
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u/TruSiris 1d ago
But... but... its prettttyyy.
My son and I walked out of the second avatar movie in the theater like 30min into it. We both realized it was the same story but now with water 🙄 and dipped. Haven't even bothered to try rewatching it.
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u/password-is-taco1 1d ago edited 1d ago
Idk how you can say it’s overrated considering how much it gets shit on
Edit: the fact that I’m getting downvoted for this is proving my point, 80% or avatar related comments (outside the subreddit) are insulting it, the other 20% are “it’s not bad”
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u/YouDumbZombie 1d ago
It only gets shit on by mad kids online who dont understand why it makes so much money over other things they like.
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u/XiaoRCT I don't know why but I thought you'd be better than Zuko 1d ago
Over the last few years reddit has convinced a significant amount of people that Avatar is actually some kind of sci-fi cult classic
It's not, and outside of r movies or some shit like that people don't pretend it is
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u/TheWiseMilkman 1d ago
I mean to be fair, they are both some of the highest grossing movies of all time. Their competence in terms of narrative is something to be talked about for sure. But let's not pretend they aren't massive hits.
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u/XiaoRCT I don't know why but I thought you'd be better than Zuko 1d ago
They are massive hits because they are visually great and the first one had the 3D hype behind it, but that's not what the main reddit discourse insists on the past two or three years, it's actually people being specific about trying to praise the writing and themes of the movie to an insane extent
for example, there's a dude in this thread comparing it to Zone of Interest and saying one of them is generic and forgettable, and guess what, it's not Avatar lmao
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u/Marcusss_sss 18h ago
The "reddit discourse" is a cloud of random people saying different things, who cares?
The movie had amazing visuals for its time and it was the only movie with themes about violent pro-native anti-colonialism and environmentalism. Any other vaguely similar story is a "peace, love, and we all shake hands" kids movie. So yes it is a compelling story for its time.
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u/XiaoRCT I don't know why but I thought you'd be better than Zuko 18h ago
>it was the only movie with themes about violent pro-native anti-colonialism and environmentalism
this is exactly the stuff i'm talking about, this isn't true lol, statements like this make Avatar extremely overrated, i'm not even on the whole ''avatar is just pocahontas'' train but what message do you think Pocahontas goes for even with all it's flaws and outdated problematic things
It's not like Avatar doesn't have it's issues in it's portrayal of anti-colonialism either, it's just done 15 years after pocahontas
The thing is, it's not like Avatar is bad or something, it's not, it's like you said amazing visually and I think calling the movie problematic to the point it's bad is an exageration, it's pretty can be pretty fun, it's just really not some original compelling story with extremely deep underlying themes, and personally while way of the waters was visually stunning, I found it straight up boring at times.
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u/Marcusss_sss 17h ago
this is exactly the stuff i'm talking about, this isn't true lol, statements like this make Avatar extremely overrated
What do you think i said was false?
but what message do you think Pocahontas goes for even with all it's flaws and outdated problematic things
And what point are you trying to make here?
I mean youre kind of being vauge but if this boils down to you having isses with the white savior complex in these kinds of movies than go off, i think thats a valid criticism. But if youre disguising youre issues with its problematic nature as "its generic" than i think thats bad criticism and you should be honest about your issues
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u/XiaoRCT I don't know why but I thought you'd be better than Zuko 16h ago
? How would I be disguising something I adressed, I don't think the movie is problematic enough to say it's bad. It's just dumb fun, visual spectacle. It's unworthy of the praise it has been receiving online for it's plot or writing, it's being overrated. I can't comment on it?
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u/Marcusss_sss 16h ago
Im saying its a disguise because if youre calling it stuff like overrated and generic when your main problem with it is something else than thats not a very honest criticism.
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u/password-is-taco1 1d ago
Cult classic? They’re two of the top 3 best selling movies ever, that doesn’t even make sense. I have not read anything like that once
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u/SerenadeOfWater 1d ago
99% of people who enjoy Avatar are just there for the spectacle. It’s something you go see with 3D glasses and popcorn every few years. Not everything needs “deep lore” to be an enjoyable piece of media.
I say this as a massive ATLA fan, but Avatar isn’t “overrated”, it’s apple and oranges to ATLA.
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u/blinglorp 1d ago
I wasn’t saying it was overrated compared to atla.
I was saying it’s overrated as a piece of media in general.
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u/omnipotentmonkey 1d ago
there's plenty of reasons to like James Cameron's Avatar. amazing visual spectacle and music, revolutionary 3D work and effects, creative designs and world-building, tight pacing and action... generally likeable enough characters...
deep storytelling is not something I'd describe it with in a billion years, it's literally Ferngully's story with a Halo coat-of-paint. the most banal, simplistic environmental themes imaginable explored in the most simplistic, nuance-less way imaginable. it's tempting with colonial allegorical movies to just accept "colonialists evil", "natives good!" because... well colonialism itself is evil enough, but there's a lot more nuance to history and there should be in story-telling especially.
think of ATLA and the Northern Air Temple episode, that's a nuanced presentation, you see an element of environmental/historical conservation vs present needs and potential compromises between the two sides presented in a balanced way. and that's one of Avatar's less subtle episodes.
there's no nuance to JC Avatar's conflict, the Na'vi aren't characters, they aren't a believable people, they're a caricature.
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u/ComprehensiveHat9080 1d ago
Atla fans (and creators) dissing on camerons's avatar, while Cameron's avatar fans never think about ATLA 😅 Don't get me wrong, I prefer ATLA even though I love Avatar too, but some fans seem to think Cameron ripped of ATLA and I'm like, you're trippin.
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u/yugosaki 10h ago
"deep storytelling?" eh, not really. James Cameron's avatar was just a scifi take on the 'white colonials vs peaceful natives, with one good white guy who goes native" trope. (dances with wolves, pocahontas, ferngully)
The only thing that sold it was groundbreaking special effects for the time. people forget that it was MASSIVE in theatres because it was at the peak of the 3d movie hype train, and it was one of the only movies at the time that actually tried to use the 3d effect to enhance everything and not just throw a thing at the camera now and then.
Once it left theatres, it basically got forgotten about. No one was talking about it, because other than 'wow crazy visuals", there really wasnt much to discuss. It got used as a demo reel to sell ultra high def tvs for awhile, which were also fairly new. But after that, it more or less fell off the public consciousness.
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u/Pulkov 2h ago
Spot on.
The movie series also has so much potential to be both: Visual masterpiece and also have a great story. So far they have concentrated only one of them and for some bizarre reason seemingly refuse to have a better script.
But eh, the movies bring money (shit ton of it) so they most likely they still won't give two shits about hiring better writers.
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u/Separate_Draft4887 1d ago
Deep storytelling???
Name one character that isn’t the bad guy or the MC.
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u/YouDumbZombie 1d ago
Payakan
Kiri
Lo'ak
Tsu'tey
Off the top of the head
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u/Pm7I3 1d ago
I've seen it several times and I recognise one name there. Which brings the total of characters I remember to 4 which is...not great
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u/YouDumbZombie 1d ago
Sounds like a you problem.
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u/Pm7I3 1d ago
No it's a forgettable character problem
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u/PretendYellow533 1d ago
Or maybe your not remembering cause the names are spelled in an unfamiliar way to you shrug
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u/SpecialForces42 23h ago
Off the top of my head
Eywa
Kiri
Grace Augustine
Neytiri
Tsu'tey
Jake
Trudy
People who do the "name more than one character" thing clearly aren't the best people to digest movies because they can't pay attention to a single thing.
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u/VinitheTrash 1d ago
I have nothing against it too, it's not a masterpiece by any mean, but it's a entertaining series of movies, and I respect the passion James Cameron has for it
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u/YouDumbZombie 1d ago edited 1d ago
Huge fan of both but I've enjoyed all of Avatar so far and with Last Airbender I've only really enjoyed the original series.
People act like it needs to have a complex story to be good but the fact is the simple story is highly relatable for all cultures and helps lend to how popular it is. Star Wars is a basic story but the visuals and score are what put butts in seats.
I just don't get why it's a positive for some films and a negative for Avatar.
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u/AndrewRedroad 1d ago
There is literally no reason for any hate. Both stories succeeded in exactly what they were trying to do, which is a lot more than could be said for a lot of stories.
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1d ago edited 1d ago
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u/greengamer33 1d ago
TBF, the avatar movies got the copyright in the 90s. Though I do agree that a word as generic as avatar should not be able to be copyrighted
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u/Xelewt 23h ago
Avatar movie is for one time only. For those times when movies didn't have such cool CGI. But now, all these special effects don't look that good. There is no "deep storytelling", it is just some Pocahontas. The second part was even worse than the first one, because the plot is worse and absolutely unnecessary characters. I'm not saying it is bad, It is just alright if you watch one time.
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u/TheXypris 22h ago
Avatar was just ferngully mixed with Pocahontas in space
The only original idea it had was its billion dollar special effects budget
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u/Actual_Archer 22h ago
Impossibletogetium would've been a better name than unobtainium and would've deepened the world building tenfold I think
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u/Sorry-Celery4350 20h ago
I'm pretty sure all these posts about the Cameron movies (including OP's post here) are part of a marketing push because the new movie is coming out soon.
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u/bryanBFLYin 1d ago
Of the top 3 highest grossing movies of all time, Avatar 1&2 are in that top 3.
I don't think the movies are hated as much as Reddit would have you believe. People went to see them, and plenty still care about the lore and are excited for the next movie.
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u/DomzSageon the Metal Meanie 1d ago
The primary things carrying the Cameron Avatar films are the visuals, and the story plots so simple that it basically caters to the lowest common denominator.
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u/TumbleWeed75 1d ago
The visuals and the motion capture of the first movie made it look amazing. I think that was the point.
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u/PretendYellow533 1d ago
Idk why everyone uses “simple” like it’s a bad thing. It’s not, not every show will be the next breaking bad, avatar or aot and that’s fine simple does not equal bad. It’s still a good story. And even if it is “simple” think about all the work that James Cameron put into that movie, I mean the dude had a whole language created, a whole culture, characters the dude who made the soundtrack to the movie worked on it from 6am to 10pm everyday for a year. I hate how people use simple to undermine the sheer amount of incredible work that went into a project. Simple doesn’t equal bad
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u/DomzSageon the Metal Meanie 1d ago
I called the story simple. Not the entire production. There's a difference.
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u/ElectricMilk426 1d ago
I actually just watched the second Avatar movie finally and really enjoyed it. Then rewatched the first one. I have a newfound appreciation.
However, when I hear “Avatar” I am thinking of ATLA
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u/Outrageous-Bear-9172 1d ago
Avatar is a great movie. However, for some reason I can't put my finger on, I never want to rewatch it. Unlike ATLA, which I could essentially put on repeat
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u/TumbleWeed75 1d ago edited 1d ago
James Cameron is more of a spectacle/innovative visual type of director. I was amazed by the first movie. It showcased new motion capture techniques and cool CGI. I think he uses CGI better than most. However, he isn’t that great at storytelling and themes when it comes to his Avatar franchise. I wouldn’t say he’s terrible. It’s just surface level writing, but I’m not saying this as a complete negative. It’s a whole lot better than what Disney shits out.
I like his sense of innovation, adventure, and his Titanic adventures more so than his movies, tbh. But his Avatar movies are fine. Entertaining.
Note: I’ve never rewatched Cameron’s Avatar. But I have put ATLA on repeat.
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u/MrS0bek 1d ago
The funny thing is that I cannot recall to have ever met a person who thinks of Camerons Avatar. Indeed regarding fandom these Films are weird. Some of the higest growing Films ever but I do not get any Fan culture exposure like I get from other franchises
It looks as if these Films are released, people talk about liking the effects and they make over a billion. And then they are forgotten til the next one releases
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u/Splatfan1 azula's fangirl 1d ago
deep? lol its the most shallow surface level storytelling ever. these movies are graphical tech demos with awful themes and shit like "unobtanium" unironically. theres a reason avatar 1 and 2 are largely cultural voids with nothing interesting. if youre the type of person to clap at "ooh pretty lights" youre gonna like them but if you like stories theres just nothing there. the average 20 minute cartoon episode has more story than anything avatar related. most if not all episodes of atla are like that, with more story, richer themes and characters whose names and faces you actually remember
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u/PastAnalysis 1d ago
It is pretty insane that anyone on this thread is getting downvoted for saying something negative about James Cameron’s Avatar. You wouldn’t happen to be part of the people doing that, would you OP?
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u/RigatoniPasta 1d ago
Because the Avatar movies are pretentious films made by a pretentious filmmaker carried by their innovative technology that no one else can use or build upon because it’s proprietary.
Literally the only cultural impact they’ve had is being the highest grossing films ever (because James Cameron rereleases them in China whenever anyone gets close to overtaking them), and sharing a name with an infinitely better and more creative franchise.
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u/SpecialForces42 23h ago
-subreddit with over 750k followers
-Pandora is one of the most popular lands at Disney World
-Flight of Passage consistently has wait times that are hours long
-movies constantly have hype and do well.
-people learn Na'vi and sometimes speak it having no mother tongue in common
-You: "No cultural impact!"
Anyone who spouts the "no cultural impact" bull is a moron.
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u/ImportantBathroom377 1d ago
it'S jUst pOcAHonTaS Yes but it's nowhere near as problematic in the modern day so I'm cool with it. Same applies to Wish Dragon.
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u/TSLstudio 1d ago
Same there's Avatar and 'Avatar with the blue people'
With Avatar sometimes I got to specify by saying 'with the blue arrow on his head' 😉
Not a huge when of Avatar with the blue people though. I liked the first one, but the 2nd one is quite lame. Especially the way they returned their enemy it's like 'somehow people returned, with an explanation this time, but still really lame'. And apparently he is even in the 3rd movie.
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u/Loose_Fan9004 1d ago
The movies present a heavy-handed, eco-friendly power fantasy that may seem contradictory. Although they are visually striking sci-fi films, I believe their environmental messages fail to accurately reflect the real-life devastation that humans inflict on the environment.
Mother Nature cannot protect herself, and the impacts of human activity on the land cannot be magically repaired; in some cases, ecosystems may never recover. The films tend to be overly sentimental, overlooking how environmental harm ultimately affects humanity as well.
Additionally, the Na'vi characters appear to appropriate indigenous cultures. One must wonder whether Pacific Islanders received any profits from these billion-dollar films; I highly doubt it. The movie can come across as overly preachy, especially in its depiction of characters based on indigenous people as animalistic, cat-like beings reinforcing harmful stereotypes in its attempts to create sympathy for RL ingenious couples. It’s a disconnect between its anti-colonial message and the methods it wishes to convey it.
So yeah, I would say criticism for JC’s Avatar is pretty justifiable.
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u/clear_burneraccount 1d ago
The blue people Avatar used to give me nightmares as a kid. I used to think they’d crawl up the shower drain and get me.
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u/7_11_Nation_Army 1d ago
Avatar movies are getting so much hate, because they lack original ideas and their plot is barebones.
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u/Pet_Velvet 1d ago
Deep worldbuilding absolutely. Deep storytelling? Ehhh.
Btw I love the Avatar movies the story isn't just a focus in them. It's the visuals, themes and the worldbuilding.
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u/BBMacsWorld 1d ago
I just find them too long and boring. Don't get me wrong. The environmental message is powerful, but I just don't enjoy the movies much
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u/urusai_Senpai 1d ago
Yeah, Idk. When I say Avatar, I mean ATLA. I have nothing against Cameron's Avatar, it just never was my cup of tea.
I think I liked the second movie better, but in later years I've started to think that is Cameron's Avatar exactly what white people want to think of themselves when they're trying appropriate culture or want to think of themselves as saviours..? They like to think of themselves that way, but in reality they don't do anything about anything.
Got off on a spiel here. My bad. The second movie is not bad, I just don't want to mention it in the same sentence as ATLA, fictional masterpiece.
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u/Particular-Ad5277 1d ago
See most people cannot differentiate hate with not being a fan so they see valid criticism and deflect it as a form of hate being thrown at the film.
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u/Leokina114 1d ago
Avatar is forgettable. The story had been done to death by the time it came out. It was made to look pretty on an IMAX screen, and there is no nuance. Cameron attempts nuance by saying Earth is dying, but at the end of the day, Jake Sully betrays his race to chase blue alien tail.
I would say a better comparison to make is between Avatar and Princess Monoke. There is actual nuance to that story, as we spend a good deal of time in Iron Town and the forest, and we actually see the pros and cons of both arguments,, with Ashitaka caught in the middle.
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u/Calackyo 1d ago
People like to shit on the blue people movies' story because it's literally the ONLY criticism you can make about it, and you can't even say it's bad just that it's a story that been used before (like most stories).
People like to criticise, because it makes them feel smart, people like to hate on popular things, because it makes them feel special. Most importantly, people like to ruin other people's fun, because misery loves company.
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u/op-agent 1d ago
The avatar movies focus so much on visuals and cinematics that the storytelling part gets no justice
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u/Indorilionn 1d ago
Abso-fucking-lutely not. Do not compare the masterpiece in nuance and storytelling that is TLA to this infantile garbagepile of god-awful writing. I saw Cameron's pet project in 2009 and had to force myself to not leave the cinema sooner. Felt like AI slop before AI slop was a thing.
It is - without any hyperbole - one of the worst movies I have ever had the displeasure to suffer through. You'd have to pay me significantly above minimal wage to watch this movie again.
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u/Aleena92 1d ago
Deep Storytelling? The movie was bland as can get in that regard. Visually stunning but the writing was as shallow as a rain puddle in the midsummer heat
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u/just_some_rando21 1d ago
Well the way i see it is like this, the last airbender has great visuals and good story telling, it was “deep” because unlike most shows of the time (in the west at least) it was quite spiritual when it came to what was the correct choice and which characters are good. I genuinely believe if the last airbender had more western themes it would have made zuko a villain among other decisions. Meanwhile James Cameron’s avatar is “deep” on a surface level, it tries to capture themes of indigenous peoples plight against oppression and climate change, that’s what it tries to show at least. When i look deeper into it I don’t really see that however, are the Navi natives being oppressed? Yes but do they struggle with it? Not really they fight off humans in the first film and do the same in the second, there isn’t really an ideological or societal conflict at play in the movies. The second film was basically the same as the first except there’s now themes of fatherhood and whaling. But even then it’s bare minimum or barely explored, spider wanting to fit in with the Navi and them not really expecting him is interesting but not explored. The contrast of Jake and evil guy who’s name I don’t care for is present but not the focus. The whalers kill one whale and inadvertently a calf, yes the tilkun are incredibly important to the culture but humans are greedy mother fuckers who in the real world would not stop at just one of these whales and instead I’d expect an entire pod slaughtered. The only thing I genuinely have no faults with James Cameron’s avatar is the quality of its animation and creature design but then again I don’t have any issues with the last airbenders visuals and character design, along with most everything else.
TLDR; Avatar is like a really good looking expensive cake that tastes like cardboard , The last Airbender is like a regular ass chocolate cake that tastes like it came out of chef Gusto’s
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u/Kangorro 1d ago
Deep storytelling? It's literally just stock footage for 8K TVs in stores. I loved the first movie as a kid and even liked it when I went to the IMAX rewatch, but there really isn't any deep story or themes in the movie. The Way of Water was much worse in terms of any kind of story telling and is the reason I started crictizing the blue Avatar movies... because now I think James Cameron will just keep doing them that shallow. (I'll keep watching them though, I like sitting in a dark room looking at pretty pictures)
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u/Sylens01 1d ago
Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy the Pandora films, but if we start calling them deep storytelling, we gotta classify everything as deep storytelling, those films are as straight forward as it gets
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u/BRLaw2016 1d ago
These movies grossed over 1B dollars. They are objectively not hated, doesn't mater what vocal minorities may say
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u/Hydellas678 1d ago
Because they were and still r very freaking cringy. Also every time I even attempted to watch the blue Avatar, I either fell asleep or skipped through certain scenes just to get through the whole movie. Avatar the Last Airbender might be a terrible movie too but at least it didn't test my boredom.
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u/SweetSonet 1d ago
Avatar came first. So Im calling avatar avatar and everything else that movie with the blue fish.
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u/Sorry_Hovercraft_222 1d ago
One can be better than the other while both being good. It’s not rocket science.
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u/No_Sorbet1634 21h ago
When people mention avatar I’m always like blue people or blue arrow. I enjoy them both to be honest.
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u/PastAnalysis 20h ago
Oh wait.. you mean James Cameron’s Avatar movies, right?? Because there’s sadly only one Avatar movie out there and it should’ve destroyed M. Night Shyamalan’s career.
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u/quirky_perky_Villain 18h ago
i honestly like both of them. i don’t have issues with other. don’t make me pick a fav tho… lol
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u/_Frog_Enthusiast_ 18h ago
Everyone knows you can’t like 2 things with the same name. That’s why we had to kill uncle Gerry when we got a dog called Gerry
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u/Mx-Herma 15h ago
Having seen the movie as recently as 2024 in its entirety... pretty gowns, beautiful gowns.
Without deep explanations that would have people do a long sigh, it's a movie. For the time, it's mostly known for its innovations of animation and visuals for movies as early as it came out, but the story might as well be an outsider coming in and showing the people suffering how it's done by the end. Think old western movies might be semi-accurate.
Personally not helped that the character designs of the Na'vi (the blue alien people) makes it very easy to make t hard to tell who's who, as they both blend too well into the environment AND each other. At best, the protagonist is easy to tell since he's the only one with finger digits to the Na'vi's four and the camera rarely strays off of him to study his entire body and wardrobe; to a similar extend, his love interest is distinctive.
If James Cameron keeps talking about pushing genAI into films though, the franchise will be double-hated by me, that he thinks the hard work done by the multitude of folks through the years should become one-click/prompt slop is quite disgusting.
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u/Ediacaran-SeaPancake 13h ago
I love both. Funny enough my experience has always been the reverse of that meme. Avatar is over hated af imo. I get not enjoying a movie, but when someone always feels the need to tell it sucks after expressing my interest it gets annoying.
They’re also very different stories and neither one invented the word “avatar.” I’m pretty sure if they had different titles no one would think to compare them.
I think both fandoms can co exist peacefully.
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u/waspocracy 11h ago
I like the visuals in Avatar. Seeing it in 3D IMAX is mind-blowing. The story is fine, not great, but not bad either. Like others said, it’s similar to Ferngully.
Screw all the haters because I’ll still see each film in 3D IMAX and you can’t convince me otherwise.
On that note, I’m not huge into the Korra universe. Actually, I don’t remember it at all. But, I can remember a lot of characters and subplots from the original Avatar series.
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u/dreamfearless 10h ago
I love Cameron's films, and I just avoid the ATLA fandom entirely. They need to believe their cartoon is the greatest story ever told and Avatar has no redeeming qualities. Idk why, but it seems to be important to them.
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u/How2Die101 10h ago
This is like that time in 2018 when the Minecraft fandom was all up in arms about Fortnite while the Fortnite fandom was playing Fortnite
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u/Pulkov 2h ago
"They both had deep storytelling."
Uuuhm. No?
The other one has multiple storylines with great and memorable characters and rather heavy themes like genocide, war, depression, acceptance etc. It also doesn't portray "bad guys" as a straight up evil group, but shows the human side in them and on the contrary lets the viewer see that there are evil people on the "good guys" side aswell. Only the final villain of the series can actually be put in the irredeemable box.
The other one has cardboard characters with comic book good guys and bad guys running the show. Also the whole message of the first movie can be pretty much summed up with: "Military BAD! Trees GOOD!". Though I must say the 2nd movie had someofwhat attempts to tell a better story even if they pretty much copy pasted plot points from the first movie.
Nevertheless, the story so far has been just the most basic one with the most predictable "plot twists" you could imagine. I can see they want to tell a massive story, but are clearly afraid to take any risks and instead concentrate on very simple story elements which are overshadowed by the special effects. I'm still holding up a hope that the story would get better with the third film, but I'm afraid it will not as Cameron simply has too much control and no one is seemingly brave enough to challenge him.
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u/MaesterOlorin 1d ago
Respectfully, disagree. A:TLA has the advantage of more runtime and it makes great use of it, but even without the same runtime, the JC:A is about as deep as a suburban lawn.
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u/HeavenlyOuroboros 1d ago
I think the problem here is that the show for what it was on the network that is aired on and for the audience that it was an intended towards it ended up being those deep thing the 21st century was able to produce in terms of its medium and setting.
Blue Pocahontas gonna have a hard time trying to top that
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u/sketchmasterstudios 1d ago
It’s not complex. Humans are evil (only white) colonizers. Blue people are sexy nature-loving hippies.
Avatar has the nuance to humanize the fire nation. I mean, Sozin makes a good case for trying to spread Fire Nation prosperity, although he did it in a fascist way.
We have Iroh, a potential war criminal who is ashamed of his past actions but he's not betraying the fire nation, he is trying to reform it even if it means being called a traitor.
nobody in Avatar betrayed the humans to bring back humanities ideals and save humanity from itself. The fire nation ruined firebending and Iroh wanted to resurrect a once prosperous and nuanced culture.
The human traitors condemn their entire species to potential extinction because they dislike the methods of the humans and because alien coochie!
If they got that unibtanium maybe humanity could have been saved. But Jane didn't explain why the humans were their because he was busy playing dress up.
Avatar 2 is better but it still has the white savior noble savage problem and it still makes the humans cartoonishly evil and stupid.
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u/Longjumping_Gur_2379 1d ago
avatar also means an electronic image (as in a video game) that represents and may be manipulated by a computer user
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u/IDKwhy1madeaccount 1d ago
I remember hearing that the original James Cameron Avatar was originally going to have a significantly more unique soundtrack than Cameron changed it because he thought it’d do poorly with audiences or something dumb like that.
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u/ArmadilloStrong9064 1d ago
That checks out because the movie in all regards seems like it's scared to do something original or unique
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u/SpecialForces42 23h ago
It was ironically because he thought it sounded too alien.
Sideways did a good video on it, "Why Avatar Has the Most Ironic Soundtrack of All Time".
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u/IDKwhy1madeaccount 16h ago
Yea that’s what the reason was I forgot the specific reason but that was it, that’s the video I know it from too. Honestly though that bit of trivia is perfectly emblematic of what that movie is though.
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u/Squidmaster129 1d ago
I liked the first one. It was one of my favorite movies back in the day. I completely lost interest in the second one after like the 7th kidnapping. At that point it just felt tedious
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u/BigOtter23 1d ago
I hope you don’t get why the ATLAB movie was so hated. Because the avatar movie with na’vi in it, was never hated. And neither was the second one lol
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u/AngelicReader 1d ago
Well one has a deep story with different cultures that meet each other, about a chosen one that is there to save the people, and the other has blue people
But seriously James Camerons Avatar is a great movie for the first watch. Dont get blinded by the beautiful sounds and visuals, its a very empty and simple movie. There is no real depth beyond social critisism (and even then a very bland one)
Avatar the last airbender has much much more depth to its stories, characters and underlying world. It may look more simple but if you dive in even a little bit deeper (or watch more then half a season) you realize how complex and deep it is (in comparison to JC Avatar)
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u/benabramowitz18 1d ago
Because James Cameron's Avatar is actually breath-taking, turn-your-brain-off spectacle, that also has turn-your-brain-on messages and themes.
In a world where the only prominent movies we get are completely watered-down garbage (Jurassic World, live-action remakes, most superhero stuff) or super-heady awards-season dramas made to win Oscars but don't leave lasting impact after March (The Brutalist, Zone of Interest, Scorsese movies), these movies provide a perfect balance between the two.
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u/BattleFries86 1d ago
James Cameron never really creates any stories of his own, or at least not very interesting ones. His gift is in taking simple stories and telling those stories in ways that draw the audience in. I mean, I think of Terminator, for example, and it's really a very simple story (the original in particular). But Cameron has a creative mind that lets him tell old stories in new ways.
I only saw Cameron's first blue people movie when it first released, and it felt far more like an excuse to see what he could do with CGI - and with 3D cinematography in particular - with the story and characters being adequate at best and - for me at least - not very memorable.
What I hate most about Cameron's movies is that he stole the name of a preexisting and far better story so that the original was legally bound to never again use the name that defined it without careful legal loophole gymnastics.
I have no attachment to Cameron's first blue people movie, and no desire to see any sequels.
I believe that James Cameron is a gifted storyteller, but so are Bryke, and their worlds and characters are far more compelling, at least to me.
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u/MrMadmack 1d ago
Didn't he make the terminator movies?
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u/BattleFries86 1d ago
He did, hence why I brought them up.
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u/MrMadmack 1d ago
overlooked it, my mistake. But what story was it based on
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u/BattleFries86 1d ago
Off the top of my head, Sarah in TSCC cites the original Golem story - created by humans and then destroys them (at least in one telling of the tale) - but it could just as easily be a more violent version of Pygmalion with greater stakes. Lots of stories all throughout history of human pride leading them to play God and doom themselves in the process. And there are plenty of tales of saviors and their nemeses. I mean, just look at John Connor's initials for a bit of allegory, with nuclear fire being a clear allegory for Hell.
That's just off the top of my head at the moment.
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u/Pim_Peccable 1d ago
Not to mention, the technology used in this movies is NOT an avatar!! This has bothered me from day one! It's more like surrogates than an MMO avatar or a mythological avatar. Avatars traverse realities, not just give you a body in the next room.
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u/BattleFries86 1d ago
I think the OG 'avatar' is from Hinduism, and I think (don't quote me on this) that it was originally a certain incarnation or form or something that one specific deity manifested as. Not a hundred percent sure if this at all, so take this with a grain of salt.
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u/Pim_Peccable 1d ago
That is my impression exactly. I once spoke to a Hindu leader at a religious institution and explained that MMOs call your representative body an 'avatar', and it made him happy.
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u/Plasmaxander 1d ago
It's literally just a stock western plot but in space with flashy CGI, James Cameron's avatar is utter shit.
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u/Charcobear 1d ago
I judge people when they say Avatar and mean the blue people. The judgment: we are not the same.
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u/ZannyHip 1d ago
Yeah.. no…
Those movies are entirely about the spectacle and the advancements in cgi technology. Nothing about the story telling is deep or impactful.
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u/mjxoxo1999 1d ago
James Cameron is anything but deep storytelling. Avatar (Blue People one) has rich lore (which can't really show on big screen), but its story is very simple, and not really deep. I enjoy it too, but I would never say it has deep story.
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u/MrMadmack 1d ago
Well the HISHE kinda explains that had Jake actually focused on his mission, kept tabs on the humans to alleviate Quartritch's concerns and actually ask about the resource the human's wanted a lot of people would still be alive right now and the story would end happily.
But instead, what happens can somewhat accurately be labeled as Jake selling out his race for blue cheeks.
ATLA doesn't have that kind of storytelling
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u/parkingviolation212 1d ago
The point of the movie was to take a typical white savior story where the white people show up and civilize the natives and flip it on its head by having the “white” people be the savages that need to be saved.
The only happy ending in that movie per its message is a total refutation of the industrialism and consumerism that corrupted humanity’s soul.
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u/Satanic_Earmuff 1d ago
Without looking it up, how much can you tell me about Katara's mom vs Jake Sulley's brother?
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u/jonosaurus 1d ago
I'm not gonna lie here, I didn't even remember who Jake was for a minute, and I still don't remember him having a brother lol
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u/Breadmaker9999 1d ago
I'm pretty sure it's because the Avatar movies are bad. At least the first one is because there is no way in hell am I seeing the sequel. The actor for the main character can't act, the story is dull and predictable, and the native aliens are just the "noble savage" bullshit but now their cat people. There is nothing interesting or emotional in it.
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u/FoxxeeFree 20h ago edited 19h ago
Sam Worthington really improved in Avatar 2 and I can't wait to see him in Avatar 3. Avatar 3 is a more morally complex movie, showing that not all Na'vi are good, and not all humans are bad.
https://youtu.be/8XaEIgZqUsE?feature=shared
Avatar 2 is definitely more emotional than the first as well. The death of Jake and Neytiri's child shook my theatre, and a lot of parents and women were crying during the funeral scene in the ending
https://youtu.be/SLC0ZFcEriM?feature=shared
Avatar 3 will explore the fallout of his death, and show a very realistic and nuanced take on grief. It has also been said Fire and Ash will be unpredictable and a "wrecking ball" no one sees coming will occur to flip the story on its head.
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u/wortmother 1d ago
Guys does a blatant rip off of dance with wolves but make it blue, has no subtlety in the actions, may as well just show a slide show saying explosives harm nature , exploiting land and killing indegious populations evil, America likes guns and its the same
VS
insane character growth, some early and amazing disability representation, an original story , studied various world cultures to make it feel like home but far away all at once, funny, sad, down right tear full, moving plot, insane original score. I czn go on and on
Its legit 0 contest
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u/raiken92 1d ago
Eh I mean its alright, but I don't know about 'deep storytelling' though. To me Cameron's Avatar is just 'Pocahontas but in 3D' ..