r/TheSilphRoad • u/Valeriun Kanto Collector • 19d ago
Discussion It’s about time raid pass is consumed after winning the raid
So I’m sure I wasn’t the only one stuck at home during this event. Of course the power spot that’s often in my reach wasn’t there for the weekend so I had to remote.
While it was nice that I didn’t lose any particles, because people can’t host raids/battles properly and don’t have good enough teams or in some instances leave second before starting, I lost at least ten remote passes.
It’s not as if niantic wasn’t making enough money, they have to make us waste passes if we lose the battle.
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u/NotEnoughHour 19d ago
It would make people less inclined to leave at the last second, I normally try and leave with 15+ seconds left but sometimes see the numbers drop with 3 seconds to go!
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u/RedPlaidPierogies 19d ago
I just got invited to 2 Max battles. Both times people jumped out with literally 2 seconds left. That first one I managed to bail, the second time I lost my pass when the battle started.
DON'T BE THAT PERSON.
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u/EcstasyCalculus USA - Mid-Atlantic Level 48 19d ago
The number of times I'm seen someone jump out at the last second assuming we wouldn't have enough when WE WOULD HAVE WON THE RAID IF THEY HAD STAYED.
Congratulations, hope losing your remote pass with nothing to show for it was worth it.
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u/CinnamonAndLavender USA - Pacific 19d ago
Back during the Gmax Butterfree weekend I had gone out at around 3:30, got to the power spot at around 4 or so, and was inviting people (mostly unsuccessfully) to an in-person battle and long story short we almost beat one with 6 people and a mushroom, so the next attempt when the lobby consisted of 7 people and two mushrooms (one of which was mine) I thought "oh we can do it this time" and then THREE! people jumped out at literally the last second. Managed to jump out myself but by that time the battle timer was nearly expired and I think it was almost 5 pm as well so I never got to finish a Gmax Butterfree battle and also I wasted a mushroom :/ why no I'm not still salty about this why do you ask
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u/EcstasyCalculus USA - Mid-Atlantic Level 48 19d ago
No I totally get it. My philosophy is, if you're going to commit to a raid, stay committed until it becomes clear you have no chance of winning (e.g. timer is halfway but you haven't even done a third of the damage). Especially if you're using a remote pass.
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u/W3NTZ 19d ago
Wait you're saying people quit mid fight when remoting into a raid? I've definitely never seen that and the comment thread you responded too is about people leaving the preraid lobbies with seconds left so it's too late for others to back out
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u/EcstasyCalculus USA - Mid-Atlantic Level 48 19d ago
I was using that as a hypothetical, like that's the one time it might be acceptable to quit a raid, if there's zero probability it can be won
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u/lovetokvetch 19d ago
Bro I ended up in a battle by myself yesterday! There were like 15 people with 20 seconds to go, everyone must have bailed last second and I didnt see. Battle started and it said 3 pokemon, I was so mad 😭
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u/Valeriun Kanto Collector 19d ago
Exactly. I joined a raid through an app. We lost the first attempt with only seconds necessary to beat the boss. Come second attempt, one person didn’t show up so I used mushroom. The host quit in last second making us waste a pass. We tried to duo it, we got really far but lost in the end. If the host only cheered we would make it.
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u/TheTraveller MAINZ, GER 19d ago
You're talking about Max battles, not raids, right? So when you lose a Max battle joined remotely, your particles are not consumed but the raid pass is? That is the stupidest thing ever, I wasn't even aware of that.
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u/Valeriun Kanto Collector 19d ago
Yes I mean max battles but it matters for raids too because you lose the pass in case of failure as well.
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u/esotericmoyer 19d ago
If you fail a battle and rejoin a second attempt through the max battle screen then you can invite people as if you were the host.
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u/Darigaazrgb 19d ago
It hurts worse when it’s an easily duoable pokemon for anyone with a pulse.
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u/VironLLA USA - Midwest 19d ago
the number of people who quit Zacian raids i was hosting was ridiculous since the guy who joined every time was enough to duo it. even worse since they were all level 40+, so they should know that the crowned dogs were manageable with 2-3 prepared people
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u/repo_sado Florida 19d ago
That's why I think this will get changed. They lose way more money from people being scared to use their pass than they gain from it. Guessing it's buried under some spaghetti code but I think it eventually changes
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u/AnimalShithouse 19d ago
It's such BM to leave within sub 15, imo. People should really get in the habit of not leaving last second, regardless of the current topic.
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u/Passchenhell17 19d ago
If I'm gonna leave, I tend to leave between 20-30 seconds from the end. There's a delay between leaving and the other players being notified, and I don't know how long that delay is (may only be a few seconds, but idk), so I try to give as much warning as possible.
I've had a few occasions where players have left with a second to go, but I always hover my finger over the leave button when the lobby is low on people, so haven't been caught out (yet), luckily.
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u/DracoRubi 19d ago
That's because server doesn't instantly update the numbers. I imagine people usually leave at 20sec, but you won't get the update until it's about 10 seconds left
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u/fulltimepanda 19d ago
yep, did a fair amount of remoting this weekend. 98% of the gmax raids were good but there were 2 where everyone bailed with stuff all time to go. Super frustrating as even if 3-4 people stayed we would have been able to clear with the people who didn't bail.
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u/Katietori 19d ago
This is especially the case with legendary DMax and GMax battles. So many GMax battles end in failure that it's just not good enough odds for it be lost.
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u/csinv 19d ago
I've found entering off my friends list is far more reliable. Picked up a couple of gmaxes over the weekend that i didn't manage to do in person.
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u/Bokoichi Cleveland, OH 19d ago
Definitely agree, I've had the most luck maintaining a few friends that remote with really strong groups and communities. While the apps are really convenient, I probably burn passes on failed attempts 25 percent of the time.
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u/Live_Buy8304 18d ago
Oh hell yes, I never delete ultra buddies from my friends list so I can just hop on their raids.
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u/Valeriun Kanto Collector 19d ago
It’s especially frustrating when you get host who has no clue what they are doing. Like one thing is when some inexperienced player joins but losing pass because host of the battle couldn’t prepare a team is just stupid.
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u/One_Addendum1873 19d ago
Yeah. I feel bad for jumping out but I lost a pass with THIRTY EIGHT players to Eternatus because literally half of the pokemon got killed in one hit. It must have just been terrible luck with a lobby full of people who hadn’t leveled anything. I ended up being one of two people left standing and we only got it down halfway. 😩 after that I’d bail on any remote with less than fifty UNLESS it was my in person raid group or I was local friends with the host and knew they were in person. Didn’t lose anymore passes 🤷🏼♂️. I bail at 20-30 seconds though.
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u/Darigaazrgb 19d ago
It’s feels bad when you enter and see the person next to you has an unevolved legendary.
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u/gxxnxvxrxm 19d ago
Yeah I’m very frugal with my in game coins and irl money so I NEVER buy remote raid passes. I got super sick this weekend and just wanted to do one more battle from home… I ended up wasting two precious remote raid passes because people couldn’t properly host for the life of them + people kept bringing weak Pokemon…
Like I feel like the company thinks we’ll just keep spending and spending to make up for the FOMO but in my head I was already kicking myself for wasting only two passes! Hell no I’m not buying more just to make up for bad decisions on their end!! I feel like most players are like me and will just give up VS keep spending money on a game that doesn’t care about them :/
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u/ChartreuseMage 19d ago
If you're self described as very frugal - they already don't care about you besides harvesting their data lol. They get more money out of someone maxing out Eternaus this weekend then 10 players who don't spend.
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u/mybham DON'T LIVE HERE BUT I LIKE BLUE 19d ago
When the event started Saturday 10am, I hosted a GMax Lapras, invited several players and we had a lobby of 14. We failed the Max battle twice and the Max battle expired.
I felt very bad about wasting the other players’ remote passes and I stopped playing the event then. I’ve got no GMax and no Etertanus.
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u/Still-Pear2435 19d ago
Its about time they also change its price back to 100 coins
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u/Aetheldrake 19d ago
Or at least reduce the singles to maybe 150 and the 3pack to like 400. See if it ends up promoting more sales.
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u/Cainga 19d ago
They are a straight up upgrade to premium so the pricing doesn’t make sense to be the same. They do get nerfed by the limit of 5 but that gets lifted every big event.
The new owners probably care more about bottom line than building a community so who knows they might price them for sales.
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u/DragonEmperor USA - Midwest 19d ago
This combined with removing the 3 pass limit (Technically 5) and what OP said about consuming the raid after the raid is finished/won.
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u/neonmarkov Western Europe 19d ago
Will you guys never understand that that was an exceptional measure and they're meant to be more expensive?
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u/Darigaazrgb 19d ago
It wasn’t. Niantic so how popular it was and instead of shifting their data mining strategy to account for remote players they just upped the price. Niantic is an incredibly lazy company.
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u/dtathemes 19d ago
Yes raid passes should be taken when the Pokemon is caught. Lost 4 raid passes this week alone.
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u/930310 Sweden(HBG), Instinct 19d ago
That wouldn’t work as people would just flee from non-shiny or <98 IV.
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u/dtathemes 19d ago
I am sure they could make a better system than they have now. Take it at the reward screen would be better then what they do now. They could even find a way to keep the invite up until the battle is over so if you get knocked out you can go back in from the friends list.
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u/always-stressed7782 19d ago
I know you're talking about DMax/GMax remotes but I'd like to chime in about regular raids at gyms. I feel that it should also be reworked to be similar to MP, meaning:
- Lower tier raids use less "cost", meaning, if you have a daily raid pass, you could do about 4 T1s with it, or 1 T5.
- Raid pass is only consumed when you win the raid, not at the raid start.
Yup that's all. But I guess it's mostly wishful thinking at this point.
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u/Efficient_Travel4039 19d ago
but then how this poor company would make money?
seriouslly, it does not care about players.
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u/ShaunSlays 19d ago
That seems incredibly counter productive though, which doesn’t surprise me for Pokémon go.
If people weren’t so worried about potentially losing their raid passes. They would likely buy more, resulting in more money being made
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u/Kevsterific Canada 19d ago
More people would be willing to use a pass if there’s no risk of losing upon failure.
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u/GenshinHeimer 19d ago
I wouldn’t mind if the raid pass was used to exchange for the rewards at the end once the raid was over . That way people could actually join , help others , and not have to spend the pass to do so.
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u/Cainga 19d ago
That would make it really op and exploitable. There are people with bots or multi accounts and they could trivialize every raid by filling the lobby.
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u/VironLLA USA - Midwest 19d ago
doubt they'd need to, plenty of people like me who'd join just to help. i miss raiding more often but not worth remote passes since i have most of the shinies i want aleady. i ignore so many raid invites
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u/GenshinHeimer 19d ago
If someone wants to make 19 accounts to trivialise a raid so that one account gets the rewards then fine . Most accounts are getting to the point now that most big raids can be duo’d anyway .
It would again come down to the bizarre practice of niantic/scoply actively stopping people buying more passes. Before they fixed the IOS drift bug (for the sake of 50m range) people bought lots more raid passes. Now not so much . People would also use up more raid passes if others could join to help them complete it . The people who could help would never have used a raid pass anyway , but this way more raids would be getting completed = more passes = more money. 🙃
Win for the go community , win for scopely, meaning it will never happen.
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u/JMM85JMM 19d ago
But then you'd buy fewer remote raid passes.
It's clearly a common sense, player friendly suggestion. But it won't happen.
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u/FluffyPhoenix Finally found the Krow. 19d ago
Weird, because it makes me buy none.
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u/DragonLord375 All my shinies. Gone. 19d ago
Same. Bought the box for 3 remotes and 2400 mp. Join a toxitricity as I wanted XLs. It's starts with 15 people and some mushrooms. 100% doable.
Half dip after a minute. Then the rest and I am by myself. Never get an invite back to that raid as the hour resets and my pass is gone.
This is why I never buy remotes. I kept the pass after leaving I would actually maybe buy some regularly and then be able to play in my own bed if I was sick or something.
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u/Throttle_Kitty 19d ago
every time one is wasted I cancel buying like 5 more because I get cold feet regarding the fact its worth the money lol
good old take $2 now even tho it stops someone spending $10 later strategy, late stage capitalism at its most typical
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u/csinv 19d ago
I seriously don't think that's true. I'd spend more money on the game if it were more reliable. And i mean both game bugs and also just stuff like them constantly forgetting shiny boosts etc. E.g. there's no way i'm going to "push for a shiny" if they possibly forgot a shiny boost.
It would be so easy for them to fix this. It just needs to let you stack a single raid encounter. Were you in the raid that ultimately was won? Did you not literally hit the retire button? You get the encounter. No, you don't have to find that gym again, just it appears in the raid tab of nearby. Click, and it's guaranteed. Game crash again? Have you thrown the last ball? No? Encounter is still there. Enter another raid? Encounter is gone.
The whole mechanic is coded in a fantasy land where they're remotely competent at their jobs. They just need to be far more conservative at not eating the player's rewards and everyone would be happy.
Lose the raid? It's ok, your remote raid pass is just "committed" at that gym like a premium would be and you can rehost yourself if need be. Or enter any later raid a local player does at the gym.
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u/gxxnxvxrxm 19d ago
Yeah, it makes me not buy any at all. Especially after this weekend! I don’t think I’ll ever buy another remote pass again 😭
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u/Aetheldrake 19d ago
It would however get people to play the game more. They'd do more raids until they win. Their metrics for gameplay time and daily players would probably go up. People really would be likely to buy more remotes.
And then! Here's the kicker that I could see happening to balance it. They make the catch encounters AFTER the successful raid a little more difficult.
So you either buy more remotes due to failures with no catches or you buy more remotes due to failures to catch but you still get a successful raid win, which is what they claim to be the main purpose of raids and call the bonus catch non essential.
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u/Darigaazrgb 19d ago
This change along with them being cheaper would make me buy more and more often. Instead I just wait until GO Fest and get enough as a backup.
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u/Constant_Work2119 19d ago edited 19d ago
How about even if you dont make into the raid (because of crash and or glitch) and the raid you remoted actually got completed by the people who got in you get a notification to still capture that shi, like cmon
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u/djkojent 19d ago
Lost 4 remote passes and 3 premium passes because of bugs during gmax battles. We absolutely would have won otherwise.
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u/DWordbell 19d ago
THANK YOU! I’ve been saying this ever since the remote max battles started. App crashes and you can’t rejoin… lose a rrp. People back out and lag causes you to not see it in time… lose a pass. I recently was told this when suggesting and honestly I thought it was terrible argument: “Then everyone would just quit any battle they thought they might lose and that would be a niggtmare for all the rest of the players in close battles. That would honestly ruin the game.”
If people back out so what? No one has lost anything then and you don’t have to contact Niantic support EVERY time it happens. Image how many support tickets they would avoid 🤷♂️?
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u/Confident-Idea-9657 19d ago
yeah im in a rural town so my only choice was to buy remote passes knowing that the remote pass i spent money on was wasted on a failed raid made me like so angry lol
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u/hateswitchx 19d ago
if you have a gym around you you can host it and find players coming to you withing minutes
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u/manta173 Valor -Level 48 19d ago
Yeah talk about regret for playing and trying to get the pokemon I needed. I used to have a raid group years ago and we could take down things with minimal numbers.
Now for these stupid raids we need big groups, and all the random ones I join have folks auto battle (not actually playing) or run at the last second.
If you are nervous, run early enough that everyone can get out. I've lost more money on idiots not finishing out raids or running at the last second than I spent all year before this weekend.
Also the candy requirements for Eternatus are stupid.
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u/Dran_K 19d ago
had a really close zamazenta trio where i was trying to carry to lower level players through so they could get one, was doing fully sweaty 4 second revive on primal groudon and everything but we ended up being around 5% short on the damage and i felt so bad that they had to loose their passes because that raid expired a minute after we failed.
having been that f2p lvl 32 player in an area where almost no one plays not too long ago, i know how valuable those premium passes can be, and loosing it because we were just a few seconds to slow on damage is unnecessary salt in the wound.
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u/hunter_finn Northern Europe Mystic lvl50 19d ago
Honestly! There have been SOOOO many times when easy duo or even easy solo raid boss has seen people ran from it at the last 5 seconds.
If they made this change, it would then have the effect that people would be willing to stay in and try to do those low man raids and thus use passes legitimately instead of getting burned by fleeing rats.
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u/sebblMUC 2x40, Valor, Germany 19d ago
Yesterday I joined a gigadynamax raid three times via friend list, only to have almost everyone out of 32 people leave within the first ten seconds of the fight. People started leaving the last 4 seconds of the lobby already and my 2€ distance raid pass was gone
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u/EntertainmentBest710 19d ago
It is about time you all guys stop spending or else they will never care about you at all!
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u/MisterDonutTW 19d ago
This is why I don't remote power spots at all, good system Niantic, and I only raid with close to full lobbies.
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u/workoutwithdi CALIFORNIA | MYSTIC 48 19d ago
this! Did it once for lati@s, saw all wrong pokemon being used and just face palmed cos I know I wasted a pass. I said then that no more dmax/gmax remote
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u/DryInteraction2 19d ago
I agree with everything you said. I fortunately didnt run into that problem, with 400 friends in game someone was ALWAYS at a raid usually like 10 raids going at any time I checked friends. All the raids I joined for gmax stuff had 40-100trainers. I never had to use an app or worry about people leaving. Just add tons of friends
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u/SwayNoir 19d ago
I wish you could just battle the boss for free and only pay the raid pass if you want to collect the rewards/exp/catch the pokemon after the raid.
But obviously they make a lot of money from failed raids.
Also used to wish they would make it so you could battle the same defeated raid boss for free but not collect any rewards after the first time because sometimes we'd finish a raid and then someone would turn up late and we couldn't help them do it. Became less of a problem once people started making alt accounts and using them for backup.
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u/ThnkWthPrtls USA - Northeast Inst49 19d ago
I've said before, I think a really good QOL change to the game would be, if anyone leaves the raid lobby in the last five or 10 seconds, the lobby timer resets to 10 seconds. That way you can eliminate the issue of having just enough people to beat a raid, then someone backs out at the literal last second, and the other people who didn't get out in time lose their pass. I do like your solution more though since that would also account for people leaving really early in the raid
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u/penemuel13 18d ago
The last few hours some of my online friends invited me to battles or I jumped in from the friends list, and my game kept crashing in the middle of the battles. Consuming the pass for a failed raid, especially one like that, is ridiculous. I agree it is well past time to change it.
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u/MattEGM1 19d ago
100%, and easier catch rates.
In these cases of lost battles and fleeing Pokemon, they're just taking loose change from younger players or others who don't have alot to invest in the game.
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u/d00g4n 19d ago
Look, it’s been manageable with regular raids for a long time even though it sucks. But with the addition of Max Battles, if you fight in person and lose, you get your particles back. This needs to be the same with Remote raid pass usage, if a remoter fails a max battle I agree. The pass should return to your inventory. This keeps it inline and fair with in person battlers.
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u/Guuhatsu 19d ago
I lost three, maybe 4 or more (can't really remember, but three were pretty much back to back) because a raid lobby that was about to start with enough people kept getting reduced by 50-75% less than a second before the raid started, making it too late to back out. Finding that it was due to other people's games crashing.
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u/Sundust25 19d ago
I was kicked during a Zamazenta raid this weekend (because I was too far away to do a remote raid lol). Support told me "okay we refund you". I never got my pass back, and now they say"you already got refunded" and close the discussion every time.
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u/SwimminginMercury Returning for a look around 19d ago edited 19d ago
I think the question is whether the pass consumption timing was a Hanke (old Niantic) thing or a TPC thing. Niantic never ~really when on the record1 about why they really seemed to wanted a failure rate on raids or why the catch is a "Bonus" not a reward (probably for customer support reasons ...)
Consumption on damage really puts alot of negative pressure to not raid unless you think the win is guaranteed, which really hurts medium sized player clusters even believing in-person is possible.
1 This Polish article/interview with Michael Steranka where in translation he says remotes where too transactional
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u/muzzmac 18d ago
Raid rewards need to persist like task rewards do. You should not be able to lose the encounter until you are out of balls. I have lost so many rewards to app crashes and raids ending... Also, being booted out of raids on startup but somehow still being in the raid but not being able to rejoin before the end... In this case, you can rejoin the lobby but get an error that the raid is over...
This shouldn't happen...
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u/Logical_Bridge_3831 19d ago
Yeah I did a Zacian with 2 minutes or smth on it, app crashed, and yeah, I couldn’t catch it.
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u/RyujinGx 19d ago
I hate to be the one leaving at the last couple of second but unless this gets fixed to be consumed after winning, there's not much choice for people out there not wanting to waste their RRPs.
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u/BMal_Suj USA - Northeast 19d ago
Honestly, often if my remote raid buggs out it's between the win and the catch screen....
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u/DoctorDredd Alabama 19d ago
Remote raids are the only way I’m ever able to do raids because the area that I’m in never seems to have people playing locally. The number of times I’ve lost raid passes due to people leaving at the last second making the raid impossible, the pokemon ended up fleeing, or getting disconnected and unable to rejoin has made me take multiple hiatuses from the game because it feels like a money pit I’m not actually getting anything out of.
There’s honestly no reason that raid passes should be taken until the pokemon capture happens.
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u/jamheadjames 19d ago
As someone who was playing on holiday I had no choice but to remote raid and normally play in person either in a planned group or small locals. I lost 5 passes over the 7 days and that was enough for me to be annoyed.
It breeds the reason why people lobby jump too. There used to be a fix where you could get back into the raid at the bottom of your max spot list but I don't see that anymore.
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u/stillnotelf 19d ago
I wasn't stuck at home but I was mostly unable to play Saturday Sunday. I did probably 30 raids total but since they weren't on the weekend they didn't count, no eternatus for me
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u/MathematicianFun8586 18d ago
I know this absolutely sucks to waste money because of this. I’m not sure if you are even at the point that you want to continue using the gmax feature but I’d like to offer a suggestion for the future. Even if it’s not necessarily local (since you’re remoting it doesn’t really matter) find a campfire group that plans meetups. I’m sure if you posted that you can only play from home you’d find someone kind who would invite you. Personally if I’m doing a remote for a gmax if it’s not a minimum of 25 people I’m not even risking it.
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u/PatBooth 17d ago
I lost a handful of remote passes from garbage teams. Eventually got a good team and won a GMAX venusaur raid only for the game to glitch out and not give me an encounter and took the raid pass….
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u/Less_Suggestion9487 17d ago
I lost so many too. Would be nice if there was a way to earn them too because I don't know anyone else who plays in my area so if I want to take on a hard raid I have to use remote passes.
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u/Critical-Michael 14d ago
It’s not as if niantic wasn’t making enough money
If all of the people who run/own all the companies in the world would do some good when they've made enough money, the world would be a much much better place. Unfortunately for us, it's never enough for them.
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u/Fearless-Night8553 19d ago
But then people could carry a raid, leave and not spend the pass, this could even become a side hustle for some like a service
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u/not_4_Pr0n 19d ago
Out of all the terrible things people complain about, this one i can get behind. A raid pass ideally would be consumed upon completion of said raid.
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u/sjshady0169 USA - Midwest 19d ago
No, because that will encourage people to dip out if they don't think they will win the raid. I've had plenty of close calls where we got close but would eventually win the raid. It's better to just only start if you're in a decent lobby and if you are going to leave, do so with at least 20 seconds on the timer.
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u/geoffh2016 USA - Northeast - 48 19d ago
And don't forget if the app crashes, you lose the remote pass and can't rejoin a remote Max battle. (Unlike regular remote raids in which you can still usually get back inside.)