r/TrueAnime • u/Sky_Sumisu • 5d ago
Is the anime community the least elitist compared to all other artforms?
I feel that anime, as a medium, is in a fairly particular spot: Perhaps right on op of the borderline between "low-hanging fruits" such as blockbusters and TV series and cinephile/bibliophile culture. The end result is that it grabs elements from both, but doesn't 100% fit on either.
I remember once reading a comment from someone that, unlike all other mediums, anime might be the only one were casuals and non-casuals frequent the same spaces: The YouTube channel that talks about the latest MCU movie isn't the same channel which talk about Letterboxd culture, but the otaku is the one that watches both niche and more mainstream anime.
So, for better or for worse, anime seems to lack "elitism" nowadays, there doesn't seem to be a "Letterboxd culture here". This has some good sides — No one likes someone else being a prick about your scores and what you watch — but it also has it's bad ones, since it also represents a lack of an "elite", people at the vanguard bringing the big discussions, people that will come in defense of the medium when there's anti-intellectualism from within, people for you to strive for, etc.
Do you feel something similar?
What do you think causes it?
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u/Listen-bitch 5d ago
I can only speak for myself. I wish there was a letterboxd for anime and Manga, somewhere I could seek opinions from people not into the new shitty shounen, highs school romance or isekai.
I feel like I am on an island desperately looking for good anime and can't, I pretty much only watch old anime now, fewer anime tropes/cringe. They say be the change you want to see, so I'm here to yuck your yum, to tell you to watch some REAL GROWNUP anime and be the anime elitist I want to see in this world.
TL:DR: I hate it here
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u/elitemegamanX 5d ago
Absolutely not, it’s gotten even more elitist especially on X, have you not seen the discourse about “anime tourists”
Anime tourist is basically referred to as someone that only knows mainstream shonen anime like DBZ, Naruto, ONE PIECE, demon slayer, etc. and/or just likes anime aesthetics.
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u/FlyingFishManPrime 1d ago
I wonder how many of those people got into anime because of Toonami in the 90s?
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u/ColaFlavorChupaChup 5d ago
Not only is it elitist it's highly judgemental and oftentimes tribal. In my observations it feels like I have to actively seek out chill anime watchers.
What's worse is it's not just to other communities outside of anime, there is a ton of internal fighting. Look no farther than a subs vs dubs debate.
Anime is great and it can bring many people together in a positive way for having a common interest.
But least elitist? Nah. Not even close.
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u/PlantainRepulsive477 2d ago
Least elistist? Definitely not. But there are some worst communities. Like audiophiles or cinephiles are SUPER elitist.
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u/Saphsin 5d ago edited 5d ago
The term elitism when applied to subcultures is a misnomer in my opinion. It means consumption for the purpose of signaling elite status (luxury fashion, classical music, literary fiction) while otakus have typically been on the social margins, and if anything is a poverty hobby for many. Vocabulary such as “gatekeeping” better illustrates the behavior of anime fans who look down on new comers.
Terms like mainstream and niche are also more indicative of popularity than essence of series. Many people who are hardcore fans of manga respect One Piece to be one of the greats when that is well within considered mainstream (it got a Netflix live action adaptation)
In a sense you are right that otaku culture allows for casual and hardcore fans a similar space to participate and interact, to an extent. I’m not confident how much this contrasts to other culture industries however.
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u/BaronArgelicious 5d ago
Some otaku subhobbies seem kinda expensive cough gunpla cough cel collecting cough
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u/BaronArgelicious 5d ago
casuals and non casuals dont frequent the same place like you would only see fansubbed shows discussed on /a/ back then but are completely unheard of at the Borders/Barnes Manga section or Television
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u/Sky_Sumisu 5d ago
Perhaps my issue is that I have "a high bar" to even call someone a casual.
If someone only watched 2 movies in a year, we wouldn't call them "a casual movie fan", for instance.
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u/Ginsan-AK 5d ago
I would have to disagree. The anime community could never comprehend someone not liking Hunter x Hunter as much as them, or Attack on Titan. They view those anime as pinnacle of this medium.
Also most anime channels are either about shonen/seinen action stuffs or CGDCT, when was the last time you see someone talk about a series like Texnolyze, or Space Brothers, or Mononoke, or Hyouge Mono?
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u/Kuandohan 4d ago
Dude, no one talked about Hyouge Mono even when it was airing. Which is a shame, I would love to see that story continued. Last I checked, there are not even up to date scans of the manga, let alone translations.
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u/Sky_Sumisu 5d ago
Also most anime channels are either about shonen/seinen action stuffs or CGDCT, when was the last time you see someone talk about a series like Texnolyze, or Space Brothers, or Mononoke, or Hyouge Mono?
Three months ago on a TheWeebCrew video.
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u/Ginsan-AK 5d ago
The Weeb Crew Podcast? It's a fairly small channel and unfortunately channels that make videos on these obscure anime don't get a lot of views or audience.
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u/Sky_Sumisu 5d ago
Well, you're not wrong. In fact, I think all anime-related channels I follow (With the exception of AniNews) are pretty small.
People call me insane for that, but to this day I argue that anime IN GENERAL isn't really mainstream, because most people don't talk about seasonals either.
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u/Ginsan-AK 5d ago
I'd argue more people talk about seasonal than classic to be honest, but only the most popular seasonal, mainly battle shonen.
Even though I haven't watch any anituber in a while, Glass Reflection was one of my favorite, he's probably one of the anituber who talked about classic anime, though looking at his videos, it seems like he hasn't done so in over a year, but I guess all of them have to adapt.
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u/Successful-Permit856 5d ago
The anime community can often be quite elitist, with people being judged for enjoying Cute Girls Doing Cute Things / Moeshit anime, while those same individuals criticize others for liking "shonenshit."
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u/Kuandohan 4d ago
If you think anime is the least elitist cultural medium, then you haven't been looking very hard. There are people out there who will send you death threats if you say anything bad about Evangelion. Or many people who will not in any way take you seriously if you have not seen Legend of the Galactic heroes, and it HAS to be the 80s version. Or people who think Dragonball Z is the pinnacle of anime and anything bad said about it you're just an [redacted slur]. Or the great Shounen battle between DBZ, Naruto, One Piece, and to a lesser extent Bleach. Forums were a disaster then. And you could say "Bleach isn't elite anime." Tell that to the person who is berating you because you think it sucked after the first section of the series. I still see it nowadays when people talk about Frieren being the greatest thing since sliced bread. And yes, it's a good show, but greatest ever made? There are issues with the show, especially towards the end of S1. I felt the same about Steins;Gate when everyone was saying that's the best thing ever. Great show, but still not the best ever in every medium. Anyway, I'm just saying there's a lot of elitist toxicity in anime, in the past, and even today. It's just how communities work. There will always be a group of people who think they're smarter than everyone else, their taste is better than everyone else's, and their "anime" is for the high IQ.
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u/Sky_Sumisu 4d ago
Are you sure you're not just talking about things that were reality a decade ago, but aren't anymore?
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u/Kuandohan 4d ago
Frieren is fairly new. But, I don't really watch modern anime because almost none of it interests me. I'm fairly confident that there are still elitists amongst today's anime watchers, because that's just how communities work. If it isn't obvious, I watch a lot of old stuff, I'm old.
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u/PlantainRepulsive477 2d ago
Least elitist? No. But compared to some other communities like Audiophiles and Cinephile, I think Anime community is a little better lol. You look at music also, especially Swifties or K-Pop fans are scary.
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u/Economy_Ease_2337 4d ago edited 3d ago
The point you've raised is interesting; let me attempt an explanation. The foundational logic of film is creation based on reality. Just like its former name, "pictures," the medium of film is a creation based on pictures of reality. Anime, however, is the complete opposite. It originates from a preference for a specific need, such as the demand for "moe" attributes or "isekai" (another world) shows. The specific content is created around these demands, or is post-hoc. Even for shows that don't "pander to otaku," they are still born from a creator's personal projections, preferences, or psychological archetypes, and the specific content is post-hoc.
For example, Orb: On the Movements of the Earth originates from the author's love for violence and his thirst for knowledge. The subject matter was chosen based on these two points, not out of a love for science or a specific period of history. We can also see from the author's new manga that he likes violence; violence is the starting point.
Another example is Attack on Titan. In a sense, Hajime Isayama is Eren. If you've ever seen pictures of Isayama's hometown, you'll know the source of inspiration for Attack on Titan. We can surmise that the mountains surrounding his hometown are the Walls in Attack on Titan. Due to his hometown's terrain, coupled with what I suspect was a childhood without the internet and less developed means of transportation and communication with the outside world (small villages often lack the impetus for external interaction), Isayama's world was constrained, much like Eren's. This is why the characters in Attack on Titan all yearn to see the sea, to go beyond the Walls; they are all completely sold on this desire. Obviously, if this were based on reality, most people would prioritize safety and survival, not going outside the Walls. The main theme of this anime perhaps comes entirely from Isayama's personal projections and preferences.
No matter the anime, anyone can gain a fantasy experience or emotional value from it. In other words, anime fans choose anime based on the fantasy experience it provides. Film enthusiasts do not have this right. They are bound by realistic subject matter. It should be noted that even for fictional films, their starting point is still a consideration of reality. For example, Blade Runner's starting point is the conflict between androids and humans. Let's look at a relative (though perhaps imprecise) example from the anime world: Vivy -Fluorite Eye's Song. Its starting point is a fondness for an AI songstress. Of course, you can use this anime to discuss the conflict between androids and humans, but that is not the creative starting point of Vivy -Fluorite Eye's Song.
Film is anchored to reality, and reality has already formed a divide between the "elite" and "non-elite" (for example, the "non-elite" might not be able to sit through Blade Runner and may not care about the future of androids and humans), if we must use the word "elite". Anime is anchored to fantasy. Whether you are a casual viewer or a hardcore fan, you can get a fantasy or emotional experience, which is something that neither the "elite" nor the "non-elite" can refuse. As for which path one chooses for subsequent interpretation, that is another matter. But before that point, all groups have already been satisfied.
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u/daddychainmail 2d ago
Anime isn’t elitist because it’s every genre; it just happens to also be a cartoon.
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u/Silviana193 1d ago
Anime community is the kind of community where you can say stuff like "I am a trash panda that enjoy trashy shows" and Will be met with stuff like "same" by other people. So, I argue that elitism doesn't exist in a way most people expect.
Anime gatekeeper, however, is a thing. But that entire thing is a tenis between people who find something problematic with anime and people who like anime the way it is.
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u/JRS___ 1d ago
i would say it's music. then a big gap. then everything else is a bout a tie.
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u/FlyingFishManPrime 1d ago
God yes, I remember I was listening to some chip tune in college and a music guy in our friend group who never met me before huffed and said "That's not real music".
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u/thitherten04206 5d ago
Anime is inherently elitist because it is different, there is no such thing as least elitist