r/TrueUnpopularOpinion • u/herequeerandgreat OG • 1d ago
Political america will know peace when blue states and red states separate.
honestly, i really don't know why we're still trying to make the "united" states of america happen. i think by now, it's been pretty well established that it's just not going to. america is divided right now in a way that i honestly don't think can ever be repaired. tensions between the left and the right rise by the day to the point where anyone who wears a pro trump or anti trump shirt or hat basically paints a large target on their backs. and the more the folks on capitol hill try to force the left and the right to play happy family, the more tensions are going to escalate until eventually, civil war erupts.
in recent years, there's been a lot of talk about secession. while republicans are often the party who most supports secession, quite a few democrats have expressed support in secession. in a February 2024 study, 21% of self identifying democrats expressed support for secession and, with all the damage trump and the republicans have done, i suspect that that number has only increased.
at this point, a peaceful separation is our best hope.
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u/IceFireHawk 1d ago
America is divided right now in a way that I honestly don’t think can ever be repaired
How about when states actually tried to leave the union and killed each other over it? We survived that
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u/herequeerandgreat OG 1d ago
"How about when states actually tried to leave the union and killed each other over it? We survived that"
that was back in the 19th century. back then america, america didn't have donald trump, elon musk, or fox news.
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u/FatumIustumStultorum 80085 21h ago
I think you grossly underestimate the level of division in the mid-1800's. Congressmen were literally bringing weapons into the chambers and attacking each other.
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u/Soundwave-1976 1d ago
21% of democrats makes the total about 15 million people going off 21% of Harris voters in 2024.
That's barely over 1% of voters man.
Will never happen.
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u/herequeerandgreat OG 1d ago
15 million people is still a lot. and the fact that it's anywhere above 5% should tell you what you need to know.
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u/Soundwave-1976 1d ago
Above 5% of less than half of Americans. That is still not significant at all.
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u/herequeerandgreat OG 23h ago
the fact that ANYONE is supportive of secession does not bode well for the state of america.
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u/Soundwave-1976 23h ago
You can't make everyone happy, but the will of the many outweighs the will of the few. And most people do not want secession.
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u/herequeerandgreat OG 23h ago
tell that to the 52% of republicans and 21% of democrats who want it. 52+21=73. that means that 73% of people, equal to 332 million, are supportive if secession.
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u/reddog093 22h ago
tell that to the 52% of republicans and 21% of democrats who want it. 52+21=73. that means that 73% of people, equal to 332 million, are supportive if secession.
Where are you getting that data?
The Yougov poll you referenced shows 21% of Democrats would support their state seceding, and 29% of Republicans.
The total, in terms of estimated population supporting their state seceding, was 23% of US adults. Your math getting to 73% of Americans / 332 million people is overstated by about 270 million people.
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u/Johnsthrowaway414 4h ago
Your math is super wrong man.
Like okay let's say that a high school class room has 10 boys and 10 girls in it.
If 70% of the boys and 60% of the girls like pizza does that mean that 60+ 70 = 130% of the class or 26 students out of 20 like pizza? No, it means that 6 girls and 7 boys like pizza. So 13 students or 65% of the class.
Also America's population isn't 450 million people.
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u/Mr_Ashhole 23h ago
We really just need a centrist President again. That'll fix a lot. Hopefully the far left and far right can give up their insane agendas too.
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u/Extension_Lead_4041 23h ago
When MAGA read, understands, respects and follows the constitution all will be well.
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u/Background_Grab8061 1d ago
Residents of Blue and Red States suffer while parasitic Rich People get Richer.. It's War on the Middle Class and it's almost over..
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u/me_too_999 1d ago
The root of this problem isn't that the states need to separate.
The root of this problem is that the Federal government has overstepped its Constitutional authority....by a LOT.
The United States is supposed to be a UNION of States. Not one giant state with districts.
The Tenth Amendment, ratified in 1791 as part of the Bill of Rights, establishes the principle of federalism by stating that any powers not granted to the federal government, nor prohibited to the states, are reserved to the respective states or the people.
This has been stomped into the dirt since FDR's New Deal where the Federal government has usurped all the state powers and eliminated the Senate with the 17th Amendment.
(The purpose of the Senate was to give State governments a voice in Federal laws.)
By changing it into popular vote, the Senate was changed into House "light" and the State's Federal representation was completely eliminated.
From that point on, each side has gleefully abused this power, not looking forward to the future with the OTHER side now ready to abuse this same power with precedence.
Most of the acrimony are on different opinions on social issues that have nothing to do with government.
While both sides use these wedge issues to distract from the fact that the Federal government steals $7 Trillion a year from taxpayers, and then leaves us with $36 Trillion in debt.
Of which NONE of the politicians currently in power will have to pay a penny of it.
That is the root of this problem.
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u/capacitorisempty 1d ago
That’s a key part of the solution. The root problem is that local contexts differs and large distant governments don’t represent local issues well and tend to get corrupted by power. The US solution, as you state, is a federal government to optimize trade, defense and other aspects of functioning distant government while limiting their challenges.
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u/herequeerandgreat OG 1d ago
"The United States is supposed to be a UNION of States."
it IS a union...and that's the problem.
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u/me_too_999 23h ago
I have a union with my neighbors. That gives me the right to complain if their lawn is full of weeds, but not to make parenting decisions on their family.
The union isn't the problem. It's (Liberal/Conservative) states deciding to use the Federal government to force (Conservative/Liberal) states to comply with THEIR bidding.
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u/PolicyWonka 1d ago
My argument would be if we take a strict textual interpretation of the 10th Amendment, then there isn’t a point of being one country in the first place. Even today, you can cross state lines and suddenly have completely different rights — alcohol, marijuana, gambling, abortion, etc.
I think it is incredibly shameful that we allow some Americans to have fewer individual rights in the name of “states rights.”
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u/me_too_999 23h ago
No one has "fewer" rights, some have extra rights.
No state has outlawed alcohol.
There are dry counties in multiple states.
I personally don't like it, but I respect their choice, and i know exactly what I'm getting into when I live there.
Marijuana is a perfect example. It is STILL illegal according to Federal law.
Some states have legalized it, but it's still a Federal crime.
The Federal government under the Constitution had no right to ban either alcohol or MJ in the first place.
Look at all the national turmoil and crime caused by just those two Federal overreach.
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u/PolicyWonka 21h ago
No one has “fewer” rights, some have extra rights.
That math ain’t mathing, chief.
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u/me_too_999 20h ago
Name a right that an average citizen has that a minority or politically protected group does not have.
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u/PolicyWonka 20h ago
As I stated, it’s not about the minority groups. It’s about states and their actions to restrict rights.
You’re the one saying that nobody has fewer rights, some people just have more rights. Which…means that some people have fewer rights than their peers. Lmao
All because they’re on the wrong side of the river.
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u/me_too_999 17h ago
No one has the right to commit crimes.
You keep using that word "rights," but I don't think it means what you think it means.
My state has a state speed limit of 75mph. A neighboring state has a state speed limit of 65mph. Does that mean my "rights" are being violated when I drive through that state?
Their voters approved that law. I don't have to agree with it or even drive there.
Mexico has different laws than the USA, does that mean my rights are violated when I visit Mexico?
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u/PolicyWonka 17h ago
I didn’t say it’s violating any rights.
I would also say that a speed limit is an intentionally poor example. I could likewise provide an intentionally poor example of a law that requires you to execute your first-born son on their 18th birthday. Is that okay because you don’t have to live there?
I would argue that there are morally bankrupt laws which are impermissible in modern civil society — regardless of whether they have public support.
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u/me_too_999 16h ago
I would argue that there are morally bankrupt laws which are impermissible in modern civil society — regardless of whether they have public support.
Right. And both the USA and in each of the 50 states, there are both the US Constitution and each state Constitution that provides legal limits for what laws can be enforced by every level of government.
Unfair and unjust laws have been overturned by both State courts and the US Supreme Court for violating moral principles.
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u/PolicyWonka 14h ago
Unfortunately the rabid use of the 10th Amendment has resulted in the complete erosion of constitutional protections — federally and at the state level. All the while the 9th Amendment is completely forgotten.
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u/Ryan_TX_85 1d ago
America is divided in exactly the same way it was divided in 1776. It has never been a "united" states. It has always been more or less a marriage of convenience.
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u/Opagea 23h ago
America is divided in exactly the same way it was divided in 1776. It has never been a "united" states.
The primary division at the founding was free states vs slave states, and people were more loyal to their states; not the country itself. That's a very, very different kind of division than we have now.
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u/Ryan_TX_85 19h ago
The free states are today's blue states and the slave states are today's red states.
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u/GratefuLdPhisH 1d ago
red States couldn't survive without the support of Blue States
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u/BlackjackMulligan73 1d ago
And blue cities would have a bugger of a time without red farmland.
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u/GratefuLdPhisH 23h ago
What state grows the most crops, it's definitely not a red State, it's California!
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u/BlackjackMulligan73 23h ago
Lot of farms in LA and San Francisco, are there? California, like New York, is blue primarily due to the cities. Perhaps I should have said blue cities to clarify.
Oh wait, I did.
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u/GratefuLdPhisH 23h ago
But is this post about states or cities because I read states so you can change the goal posts to try to better your argument but that doesn't change the fact that California is the number one at agriculture state in the United States!
Plus your argument is not a good one because how could cities be responsible for growing things, they're literally a city, not a rural area?
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u/BlackjackMulligan73 19h ago
That's the point of my argument, that you both say isn't good and reiterate. Cities can't support themselves, in terms of food. Generally speaking, cities skew more blue woke rural areas go red. So, if we were to have an amicable secession, you'd have pockets of blue in the cities with a large population and zero food production. And if it weren't amicable, you'd have pockets of blue in the cities with a large population and zero food production.
To me, that's not really a beneficial situation for those cities. If you think it is, by all means, make your argument.
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u/Capital_Ad_8501 1d ago
Partially agreed with the idea that it’s not going to end well.
But I don’t see how this is a ‘blue states’ vs ‘red states’ issue. It’s actually a ‘blue cities’ vs ‘red farmland’ situation. So even in the bluest states, the rural areas are still deep red.