r/USLPRO • u/Economy_Outcome_4722 Texoma FC • 3d ago
Pro/Rel in very small league one markrets
As a Texoma fan I would consider us to be an extremely small professional sports market. This question is relevant because Tormenta who are another very small market team won League One in 2022.
What would happen in the Pro/Rel contest, if by some miracle we won League One, then went to win the Championship the next year. (a long shot admittedly). Would we be allowed to compete in “USL Premier” given that our market is so small?
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u/Ok_Flamingo_3059 United Soccer League 3d ago
P for everyone worried about whether or not a smaller Market can mean division 1 as the current professional League standards, only 75% of the teams in the league need to be in Metro areas of a million, which means 25% don't have to be. So yes, as long as the rest of the markets meet at one or two can be in smaller market. The biggest issue is that it states that all stadiums need to be 15,000 no matter the market size, which doesn't make any sense if I'm in a market of 250,000 people. I don't really need a 15,000 seat stadium. 10,000 or 7,500 is perfect for that market
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u/Ok-Grass-7246 2d ago
That is helpful, but it just changes the question. Using the 7,500 seat example, what would happen for a club using example of Texoma…or Tormenta that neither have 7,500 seats? I think it’s not necessary to have a seat floor. Even without it, how does a club in a 250,000 sized market play D1 and not go bankrupt. There have been some discussions that the league would provide some financial transition support for a club that gets promoted. It would take an awful lot of support to close the gap.
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u/Ok_Flamingo_3059 United Soccer League 2d ago
Why would it go bankrupt? It can either invest and try to stay in D1 or it can spend the same level. It was spending the year before and then more than likely than not get relegated back to the division they were just playing in, in which case it cost them. Nothing extra. It's not like playing in division 1 automatically. Makes you have to pay players more or spend more. It might increase travel based depending on where the team is. But yeah it I don't understand the question? The size of the market has nothing to do with it. Their business is in that size. You can get sponsorship from you can sell Jersey sales outside of your Market so you can get revenue from that depending on their design and look so the market size again does not calculate to success
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u/24HourPurplePeople Louisville City FC 3d ago
We say yes, why not? It’s what is meant by pro/rel right?
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u/ThisGuyinCA99 AV Alta 3d ago
I think we’re all wondering how PLS is supposed to work in the event that a team such as Texoma or Tormenta somehow do so well that they get promoted into the Championship then possibly D1. It’s basically anyone’s guess as of right now.
This is where PLS needs to be revisited. Because PLS, while needed at the time, was written under the presumption that a team in a top division will always be in a locked system with no chance of getting dropped to a lower division. For every team needing a 15k+ stadium should be questioned. For now I believe that teams need to work on getting an actual stadium for their team.
Having said that, there would have to be questions of what is to happen if in terms a Texoma or Tormenta somehow get promoted into D1.
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u/sasquatch0_0 2d ago
No clue officially. But considering USL is pushing forward and they have been in consistent talks with USSF, I have to imagine there was some sort of agreement, at least temporarily. Or possibly USSF will release a separate PLS for pro/rel leagues.
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u/Past_Focus25 2d ago
These questions are so weird to me, because you can compete in any USL league/division your owners want to, RIGHT NOW! Your owners choose to compete in your current division. They could move up a division in the off season but they don't. On purpose. Pro/rel works in saturated markets. USL isn't saturated - it's very open.
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u/Turkish_retreat 1d ago
The market size requirement at the top tier states that 75% of clubs need to be in a metro of 1 million plus. Your immediate need is going to be a 15k seat stadium.
My read is, as long as you have the stadium you should be fine. Maybe it will work out to where you can have a waiver, and the hard capacity requirement is delayed for a few years. So if you go up and come right back down, maybe you don't have to worry about it. That accommodation does not exist at this point, but neither does pro/rel at the fully professional level.
There's going to be quite a lot of clubs in metros with 1 million plus, and the top tier will expand a bit over the course of time. I can actually see a scenario where the first tier expands, by not relegating a couple of teams, in order to make the numbers work.
Short answer, you can be a very small market and still compete in the top flight. You just can't have any more than two or three such cases in the early stages.
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u/cyyfyy Portland Hearts of Pine 3d ago
TLDR: No one knows yet
The rules of engagement have not been set out, but in most countries that have implemented prorel, this is the case. However, some leagues (see Mexico pre-covid for example) only allow promotion if the club meets certain criteria set out by the league. Most of these criteria are not market-size based however, but rather on club solvency, stadium size, infrastructure to support the media deal that the higher league has etc. I can imagine a scenario where US soccer/USL allows promoted teams to show they are making progress towards these goals, and goes through with the promotion even though the team doesn't have the requisite say, stadium capacity yet. There is precedent for this. That said, the USL owners are in active talks about the direction that this will go for our beloved league, and based on what we hear, it is very much in flux. So buckle up, hold onto your hat, and post again in 2027.