r/UnitedFootballLeague Fan of the General Concept Jun 02 '25

Discussion Final UFL Attendance

Post image

Some thought:

  • Michigan drew the largest non-St. Louis crowd in the league this year, obliterating their previous record by over 30%
  • D.C. drew their third-largest crowd this season (despite a weather delay)
  • Memphis and San Antonio drew their second-largest crowds this year
  • Final league attendance dropped by just over 5% from 2024
  • Michigan was a rousing success, raising attendance by 43.6% from 2024. Every other team saw an attendance decline from 2024
  • The non-St. Louis average was 9,103. The 2024 average was 9,739 (6.5% decrease)
255 Upvotes

149 comments sorted by

135

u/Mundane-Club-7557 Michigan Panthers Jun 02 '25

Whatever they did in Michigan do that everywhere else

73

u/yesrushgenesis2112 St Louis Battlehawks Jun 02 '25 edited Jun 02 '25

The question comes down to how much of it was having a player go on to be a star for the NFL team in the same city. I hope they are able to learn transferrable and applicable lessons to other markets.

42

u/Mundane-Club-7557 Michigan Panthers Jun 02 '25

Spot on. The other thing I remember was from the AAF where they tried to draft via territory so fans may have already watched the players in college and had some attachment. Idk how well it worked but it was electric to be at ford field on Saturday. Just wish it had been a game that mattered with Perkins in

35

u/theTIDEisRISING Birmingham Stallions Jun 02 '25

That’s one thing I’ve pounded the table over that the AAF did right. Having local college alumni on the teams got butts in seats

18

u/yesrushgenesis2112 St Louis Battlehawks Jun 02 '25

I had no idea they did that, it makes a ton of sense. Maybe not the whole draft, but you could have a "pipeline" first round where teams get first pick of local stars, and then a proper first round after that is national and national the rest of the way.

29

u/theTIDEisRISING Birmingham Stallions Jun 02 '25

Yeah we had multiple Alabama, Auburn, UAB, Mississippi State, etc players on the Iron that drew a serious crowd. Folks were showing up just to see Trent Richardson run into a wall for 3.0 YPC lol

24

u/DingerSinger2016 Birmingham Stallions Jun 02 '25

If you needed 2 yards, Trent Richardson got you 3.

If you needed 4 yards, Trent Richardson got you 3.

13

u/[deleted] Jun 02 '25

[deleted]

7

u/DingerSinger2016 Birmingham Stallions Jun 02 '25

I agree. J'Mar Smith is a Stallions legend bc of how long he's been here. Have the gang show up to youth events and have some fun and get some community involvement in. There are plenty of opportunities in each of the 8 cities.

5

u/[deleted] Jun 02 '25

[deleted]

5

u/DingerSinger2016 Birmingham Stallions Jun 02 '25

Absolutely. These are your stars. Run with them, these guys are committed to the league and it's success.

4

u/yesrushgenesis2112 St Louis Battlehawks Jun 02 '25

lol according to some they do have a lurker here

1

u/RedditIsKindOfMid DC Defenders Jun 02 '25

Having players live where they play will not gave a good ROI and is an awful business idea

9

u/LemonZestify Jun 02 '25

I’m shocked the team in Alabama wants local Alabama college talent to stay.

7

u/theTIDEisRISING Birmingham Stallions Jun 02 '25

Well that’s apparently news to the UFL

8

u/MrDudenheim DC Defenders Jun 02 '25

This is why the highest attendance for Birmingham last year was against the Battlehawks. They loved seeing AJ back in bham

4

u/Gan-san Jun 02 '25

You mean, back in Alabama, he played in Tuscaloosa.

5

u/No_Ad1720 Jun 02 '25

The OG USFL from the 80’s did this as well. It just makes sense.

4

u/yesrushgenesis2112 St Louis Battlehawks Jun 02 '25

As I said below, I didn't realize the AAF did that, and I think the UFL should try something similar. I posted elsewhere here that Memphis, for instance, should try to get the rights to Henigan for the scenario where he is cut at the end or at any point during Jax's camp.

2

u/PresidentAckbar24 Jun 02 '25

All American Brady White played for the Tigers and then the Showboats

that didn't help their attendance in any way

1

u/yesrushgenesis2112 St Louis Battlehawks Jun 02 '25

That was years removed from college. People have short memories. But perhaps I’m wrong, just spitballing anyway.

2

u/PresidentAckbar24 Jun 02 '25

he coached for the Tigers in 22,

and played for the Showboats in 23

there was a zero year gap

1

u/yesrushgenesis2112 St Louis Battlehawks Jun 02 '25

A) there’s a difference between coaching and playing, he was playing for the Bandits at the same time backing up Ta’amu. There was a three year gap between the times he took the field at Simmons as a QB. B) I’m not suggesting it’s the presence of players alone. C) as I said I could be wrong.

5

u/ArockproUser Birmingham Stallions Jun 02 '25

Its true Stars bring in people. This is why I keep saying Birmingham needs to draft old Alabama and Auburn players that did not make it into the NFL, are punted out, or practice squad material (not that the UFL salary will get those guys but it would work if they had an owner).

6

u/yesrushgenesis2112 St Louis Battlehawks Jun 02 '25

I think if its a choice between joining the "real" world and playing in the UFL they'll get guys, like anywhere else. There is a niche for "UFL-level" players and Bama and Auburn certainly produce them as they produce NFL-level pros.

I think it could work in Memphis too. For instance, they need a full team reset and the Tigers' star QB is almost certainly going to be unemployed by August.

2

u/LongjumpingNinja258 Jun 02 '25

The chances of that happening are almost 0. Spring Football has been pretty bad at getting players to the next level.

2

u/yesrushgenesis2112 St Louis Battlehawks Jun 02 '25

How do you mean? Going back to 2022 there has been at least one player to make an active roster coming out of the spring league, that itself is an achievement. Kavontae Turpin is an all-pro and pro-bowler. Jalen Redmond and Deondre Tillman are rostered NFL players out of the UFL. Brandon Aubrey and Jake Bates are also rostered kickers. Yunghoe Koo played spring ball back in 2019, and Heinicke in 2020.

There was not a world where UFL players were going to uproot established NFL vets and rookies in large number, but it has given hundreds of players chances to go to NFL camps and produced several true NFL players.

0

u/LongjumpingNinja258 Jun 02 '25 edited Jun 02 '25

There have been thousands of spring football players. There are only a handful to make a 53 man roster.

Stop using Heincke as an example, he never took a snap in the spring. He got signed because of coaching staff connections. Turpin wasn’t in the NFL because he beat the shit out of his GF multiple times and got kicked off TCU. There’s a case for kickers and like 4 rotational level players. The number of players to make the leap to the NFL is closer to 0 than 1%. When spring football MVPs are fringe practice squad players it leaves a lot to be desired in terms of the spring to NFL pipeline.

2

u/yesrushgenesis2112 St Louis Battlehawks Jun 02 '25

But that's not the point, man. The point was never to send hundreds of players to NFL rosters each year, it was to provide a product for fans and an opportunity for those players to have chances should they be seeking them.

2

u/LongjumpingNinja258 Jun 02 '25

Not according to Daryl Johnston and the results of the “promotion”.

3

u/ArockproUser Birmingham Stallions Jun 02 '25

it was all Jake Bate's fault...

1

u/Clyffindor Jun 02 '25

They gave out Jake Bates Bobbleheads to the first 2000. I was in line when gates opened and still didn't get one.

1

u/Mundane-Club-7557 Michigan Panthers Jun 03 '25

Yup I was there! I lucked out and got one, that stinks you didn’t, I’m sorry! I meant whatever they did for the whole year that improved attendance.

3

u/Clyffindor Jun 03 '25

Ohh got it.

I ended up buying one from a family of four that each got one. Wasn't gonna leave without it, just hated that I had to fork up extra money for it.

I think the Panthers attendance is boosted by the Lions - because lions tickets are so expensive now the Panthers are the only opportunity a lot of families have to get to a football game. I also think it helps that they play in Ford Field and families are getting into the same stadium as lions games for less than 10% of the price.

Also helps that we had Perkins starting most of the year, in general a mobile QB in spring leagues is going to be more exciting for fringe fans. Also had a couple home games on the same day as other pro teams in the city where people that were already in town caught a double header.

I'd worry we'll see a big drop off of the move to EMU or the eventual DCFC stadium.

1

u/Mundane-Club-7557 Michigan Panthers Jun 03 '25

Oof hopefully they didn’t charge you a bunch. One guy by us said he paid $100 bucks for one.

You hit the nail on the head on all points and I couldn’t agree more. As someone who went to EMU, that stadium would not go well. Ford field even if mostly empty, gives the league a professional look because they share it with the Lions. The games being at Ford field are the reason my wife and I started to go to games during the first year they were a hub team.

1

u/f_u_l_u_ Michigan Panthers Jun 04 '25

They gave out free tickets to the last game, it’s something they should do across the league more often.

50

u/yesrushgenesis2112 St Louis Battlehawks Jun 02 '25

STL is kind of interesting. The team never reached the average from last year, that's for sure. But it still stuck (just) above 30k for all season-ticket holder games other than week 6, when the Blues were playing Winnipeg in the Stanley Cup playoffs at the same time AND the team was at its low point in the season. I do find it funny that the San Antonio game, a game where season ticket holders did not get to use their tickets, drew more than that week 6 game.

Oh well, I hope they pound advertising this week and try to eclipse the Week 2 high from this year. Seems a tall order though. If they make the final, they need to do everything in their power to try for 40k.

And also go Michigan fans, that's proof that there is an appetite for this that can be captured with the proper effort and strategy.

16

u/Powerful-Revenue-636 Jun 02 '25

Why is 40k some kind of a realistic metric? The attendance is double to triple the rest of the league. Maybe 30k is a more reasonable ceiling.

6

u/Plus_Molasses_9379 Jun 02 '25

It’s not. I don’t see that happening for championship IF they make it. I hope I’m wrong. Getting an extra 15-20k casuals there is near impossible

3

u/Powerful-Revenue-636 Jun 02 '25

The league needs some kind of star power to attract casuals.

14

u/Zapfit Jun 02 '25

Well Max Duggan was a runner up Heisman candidate. That's probably about as good as you're going to get at this level

7

u/yesrushgenesis2112 St Louis Battlehawks Jun 02 '25

Local star power could work in markets with strong college football connections. For instance, Memphis should target Henigan when he is cut from the Jags later in the year, in my opinion. Another poster talked about the efficacy of having Auburn and Bama stars who didn’t make it to the NFL but still drew crowds for the Iron.

Maybe Mizzou players could be attractive in St. Louis, but I don’t know whether the college culture is really there for it.

Duggan WAS a Heisman runner up but wasn’t advertised as the starter and didn’t go to a school relevant to STL.

Either way St. Louis doesn’t need star power in the other teams in the league might.

7

u/Powerful-Revenue-636 Jun 02 '25

Mizzou is the closest thing to a local football college. Most of the St. Louis fans are old Rams fans. I could see an older player working. Using a legacy baby like Proehl was a good idea, just not the right player.

5

u/Blues2112 St Louis Battlehawks Jun 02 '25

STL fans would go apeshit if the BHawks were able to get Brady Cook or Cody Schrader on the roster!

1

u/Linkbowler St Louis Battlehawks Jun 02 '25

They drafted Schrader. He's on an NFL roster.

1

u/Blues2112 St Louis Battlehawks Jun 02 '25

I'm aware. And Cook is an UDFA who signed w/ the Jets. Doesn't mean either/both of them will make it/stay n the NFL. I hope they do, but realistically it's a longshot.

1

u/yesrushgenesis2112 St Louis Battlehawks Jun 02 '25

Not just any NFL roster, the Rams!

3

u/yesrushgenesis2112 St Louis Battlehawks Jun 02 '25

They’ll almost certainly have to take a flyer on EJ Warner when he’s done with college if the league is around. I don’t thinks he’s very good though…

7

u/Powerful-Revenue-636 Jun 02 '25

We really liked Te’Amu the COVID year. He might have a chance at local celebrity.

2

u/gorogergo St Louis Battlehawks Jun 02 '25 edited Jun 02 '25

As an old Rams fan, I loved having Ricky Proehl coaching and Austin playing.

3

u/daltontf1212 St Louis Battlehawks Jun 02 '25

Having L'Damian Washington in 2020 was a plus.

1

u/Vector1013 DC Defenders Jun 02 '25

I totally agree with this. And I don’t even think it needs to be on the field. Just maybe some retired big retired NFL names to just do some commercials or instagram posts or something. Just saying “hey! Come watch this!” I think that would be huge for the league.

7

u/yesrushgenesis2112 St Louis Battlehawks Jun 02 '25

40k was the attendance for the home opener last year. It has been done before for regular season games, it can be done again.

5

u/Zapfit Jun 02 '25

That game also had 9 months of buildup to sell tickets. A lot of folks have seen the Battlehawks at this point and the true amount of diehard fans is probably around 20k or so. I'm thinking this weeks playoff game draws 20-22k and if they host the championship 30-32k.

1

u/yesrushgenesis2112 St Louis Battlehawks Jun 02 '25

We shall see!

-1

u/EducationalVolume894 Jun 02 '25

Jogo do campeonato 60k game is saturday night nobody watch the cardinals mlb team

2

u/Zapfit Jun 02 '25

Ticket sales are under 15k with less than a week to go. No way there's 60k

1

u/TheShaneChapman Jun 02 '25

Sometimes there are influential factors at play that are not reasonable to replicate consistently. Novelty being one of those things.

Another, look at the BC Lions in the CFL. Over 50,000 tickets sold for their home opener coming up this week. But .. Snoop Dogg is the kickoff concert. So not really reasonable to expect 50k all year long. 30k would be a great target for them to hit during the year.

IMO, for STL to hit 40K, the rest of the league needs to catch up and the brand needs to be repositioned so you can start to attract a more casual audience as well.

6

u/Plus_Molasses_9379 Jun 02 '25

I think the “sell out if we are in championship” is not happening. I believed it would have if they made it in 2023. Getting 25k-30k of us devoted fans is no issue. But getting casual fans to pay for a ticket and use their time for a semi pro game is tough. Especially a late night Sunday start for playoff. The current map looks like garbage. It’s much tougher starting with zero sold because you have to rely on all the season ticket holders to buy playoff tickets. Some are still upset with how it ended last year and the 2nd year in a row with late March start and late schedule release (waiting on mls and Audi field)

2

u/yesrushgenesis2112 St Louis Battlehawks Jun 02 '25

That is why you have to pound that advertising for the next two weeks. Has to be done. 40k has been reached before, it can be done again, and should be a goal, however lofty.

5

u/Plus_Molasses_9379 Jun 02 '25

Yeah them slapping a ticket link on every social media post they make isn’t currently working. Almost have to get boots on the ground locally but I don’t think that will happen.

3

u/yesrushgenesis2112 St Louis Battlehawks Jun 02 '25

Officially there are outreach offices in every city. It is a question of strategy and investment into those offices. Report is, however, that they are further ramping up the "localization" of those offices by hiring local who know their markets.

2

u/theTIDEisRISING Birmingham Stallions Jun 02 '25

Why did season ticket holders not get all of the games?

2

u/yesrushgenesis2112 St Louis Battlehawks Jun 02 '25

Week 9 was a bonus because San Antonio could only get four. It was technically a San Antonio home game and so not included among the five "official" home games included with season tickets.

2

u/Equivalent_Leg_9028 Jun 02 '25

The second game vs SA was not technically a home game.

The number for that game was still good because they gave out a ton of free seats. Personally I had 4 that I couldn’t find anyone to give to

19

u/Pitiful_Ad8641 DC Defenders Jun 02 '25

Michigan you can come sit by us

23

u/AnlStarDestroyer DC Defenders Jun 02 '25

SPREADSHEET GUY IS BACK

14

u/GuyOnTheMike Fan of the General Concept Jun 02 '25

Sorry, was on the road with my wife last week! Priorities

3

u/That_one_cool_dude St Louis Battlehawks Jun 02 '25

I thought you were married to the spreadsheets. /s

8

u/AgitatedAd6634 Jun 02 '25

SA averaging what they did, with the results they had on the field, shows how solid that city has been.

1

u/UncleMcBubba Jun 03 '25

If you look at the attendance of our first XFL game, we started off so strong! If we had had success early on like STL, I think we would be rivaling them in attendance. But add to the lack of consistency with the poor schedule planning around San Antonio events (fiesta, NCAA Final Four, 9pm Sunday night games, etc.), and they’ve failed to capture folks' attention.

28

u/MirrorkatFeces MVPerkins Jun 02 '25

Genuinely think Birmingham would’ve seen an increase if they didn’t schedule them for 11am on Mothers Day

16

u/AnlStarDestroyer DC Defenders Jun 02 '25

If we exclude that game then they’re just shy of the 2024 average at 9,806.

14

u/DingerSinger2016 Birmingham Stallions Jun 02 '25

My first Stallions game was on Mother's Day and really showed the energy the team has within the city. The team has a ton of potential, but it was wild thinking that scheduling them on Mother's Day in the Bible Belt was a good idea.

3

u/AUCE05 Jun 02 '25

Birmingham was competing with Auburn/Bama making runs in Basketball and Baseball.

1

u/yesrushgenesis2112 St Louis Battlehawks Jun 02 '25

I don't think so. That game was against Houston. I think they may have reached near their 2024 average, but not exceeded it.

2

u/legitocracy DC Defenders Jun 02 '25

They have 4 games per week and the ability to put games on Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and Monday. They shouldn't be playing any of them on Mother's Day or Easter

9

u/yesrushgenesis2112 St Louis Battlehawks Jun 02 '25

I’ll push back on this a bit. Games are scheduled to fill TV time and when venues are available. They can schedule one (two with concurrent broadcast) on Fridays, and then maybe two on Saturday or two on Sunday. There has been one Monday game, back in the pre-merger XFL, and that was on ESPN2. The league wants as many games on Fox and ABC as possible, so really that’s going to be on Fridays, Saturdays, and Sundays in the Spring.

8

u/prswwd St Louis Battlehawks Jun 02 '25

You’ve gotta think that Michigan saw a Jake Bates effect. I think the larger message here is that you find your great players and drill up a good human interest story around them. The second lesson is that you need to get as many of your players into the NFL as you can and ride that wave.

2

u/ZCAlpaca74 Jun 02 '25

Jake Bates and the fact that Detroit had an enjoyable 2024-2025 football season, had people wanting more yk

7

u/DarthRevan0990 Jun 02 '25

GJ St. Louis ..way to show up

6

u/Slm23630 St Louis Battlehawks Jun 02 '25

We run on spite

8

u/JackpotJooser Jun 02 '25

How can you look at these numbers and not at least consider moving Memphis?

2

u/creed_1999 St Louis Battlehawks Jun 02 '25

FedEx owner is interested in buying the showboats. He made a couple of investments in the team and where they play. In the last game they had a special showcase of fedex employees who served. That’s why the league won’t move the showboats.

12

u/BlazinSlug Jun 02 '25

Birmingham attendance would be helped by putting former Bama and Auburn players on the roster. I don’t think this strategy would make much difference in other markets, though. Just like the Jake Bates strategy wouldn’t work in some of the other markets (and the UFL can’t control that anyhow). Basically, local approaches are needed to improve attendance.

2

u/yesrushgenesis2112 St Louis Battlehawks Jun 02 '25

I think it could work in Memphis with the university being there and playing in that stadium.

2

u/DingerSinger2016 Birmingham Stallions Jun 02 '25

Memphis (UMemphis, Tennessee, Vandy), Birmingham (UAB, Alabama, Auburn, literally a ton of smaller schools), Michigan (UMichigan, Michigan State, directional Michigan University), and Arlington (UTexas, UTA) would benefit.

Houston and San Antonio might benefit as well. Only team I don't see improving with this strategy is St. Louis, but the UFL's focus should be on retention in that market.

2

u/Capital-Doughnut362 Jun 03 '25

UTA hasn’t had a football team in decades, and the Longhorns have as much pull in Houston and San Antonio as they do in DFW.

1

u/Least-Wait3456 Jun 02 '25

Push comes to shove, the Battlehawks could always play at Hunter Stadium at Lindenwood.

6

u/Julep2005 St Louis Battlehawks Jun 02 '25

Second comment but I wonder if the uptick in attendance despite the games being meaningless was because I’ve actually seen marketing for the playoffs. I wonder how many people just started figuring out they have a team in time for the season to end.

0

u/MCallanan Arlington Renegades Jun 03 '25

If marketing for playoff games moved needles Birmingham would be drawing 20,000 fans a game.

14

u/WabbitCZEN St Louis Battlehawks Jun 02 '25

Exhibit A for why the title game is in St. Louis.

7

u/Troll_Enthusiast DC Defenders Jun 02 '25

I mean it's like right in the middle for all the teams

6

u/gorogergo St Louis Battlehawks Jun 02 '25

That and the unfortunate open calendar at the dome.

1

u/ZCAlpaca74 Jun 02 '25

From what I read, the dome is having its busiest year in a long time this year. Is there a case to make that the Battlehawks saved the dome from getting demoed?

I can send the video I watched that talked about it, if you want

4

u/yesrushgenesis2112 St Louis Battlehawks Jun 02 '25

Second, separate comment: I do wonder what can be done about Memphis especially and maybe Houston. Houston, I think, will get better attendance with more success (maybe, they used to perform like DC does now, and the novelty has worn off), but I don't know how you convince Memphians to show up for a team this bad. It has never been a good team under any coaching regime or with any combination of players. Three coaching resets in as many years, an inability to have ever, historically, fielded a winning offense, and an utter lack of team identity. They barely have highlights to advertise locally with.

Moving the team doesn't help either! Putting a bad team in a smaller or equally sized city will bring the same result. All I can think of is heavy, heavy investment in local outreach beyond what they've done, and intensifying of the partnership with Fred Smith if he is still onboard the boat, and even possibly a hail mary of bringing in some locally popular Tigers alums to play for the team. Like, maybe you heavily lobby to draft and bring in Henigan if/when he is cut from Jax. But I'm not in this business, I have no idea.

6

u/DingerSinger2016 Birmingham Stallions Jun 02 '25

Memphis needs local marketing. Selling the team to Fred Smith would be a good start, then they need to have a local marketing department and give it a healthy budget with minimal concern about a profit for the next 5 years. The UFL put a team there, but it needs to invest in the city to make it successful. They will have to do that to a more significant degree if they relocate, because relocation lets other fan bases know their team might not be safe.

4

u/Julep2005 St Louis Battlehawks Jun 02 '25

I hope for a Battlehawk championship because I’m a fan but also because it would be cool to see a championship game packed out. I went to the game last year and it was cool but never felt like a championship til they presented the trophy. There was so few people me and my buddies got on the Jumbotron a handful of times.

3

u/sealclubberfan Jun 02 '25

What happened in week 7, big oof.

9

u/yesrushgenesis2112 St Louis Battlehawks Jun 02 '25

San Antonio performed as they've performed when the team is bad, Arlington did its consistent number, Memphis did its (yuck) consistent number, and the Stallions played on mother's day.

3

u/FantasticCamera9058 Jun 02 '25

Swap Memphis for Seattle next year, start marketing the teams & games earlier, and open up tickets DURING the heart of NFL season & you'll likely have a solid upward trajectory for UFL 2026.

The fact that league attendance only declined slightly when there was very little marketing and tickets went on sale so late should be a wake up call.

2

u/Jaster22101 Battlehawks Fan 🦅 Forced to Live in DC 🛡️ Jun 02 '25

Or invest in ads during the NFL season

3

u/TwizzlersSourz Birmingham Stallions Jun 02 '25

Michigan maximized the Jake Bates gift. Did winning help? Possibly but their marketing team hammered home the Bates connection.

Outside of STL, most teams averaged 8-13k. That is the likelihood of attendance moving forward.

Hopefully, in a few years, we can reach a point where 10k is the lowest.

Local CFB stars would go a long way for some markets. I am not from Alabama but Stallion fans loved Bo Scarbrough on the team. Minor league football? Shrug. Former Bama star? Yes!

3

u/MCallanan Arlington Renegades Jun 02 '25

I think a lot of folks in this subreddit could learn a lot from that Memphis average… For those of us who follow this league year around we know the league made a concerted effort to promote the hell out of that team coming into this season..and attendance was awful from the get go.. blaming marketing and promotion has kind of become the lazy man’s answer to everything that is attendance problems in this league.. what Memphis proves is that marketing and promotion isn’t the simple fix in these struggling markets.

3

u/Jaster22101 Battlehawks Fan 🦅 Forced to Live in DC 🛡️ Jun 02 '25

Historically Memphis is just not a football city. It’s proven time and time again it just doesn’t want football

3

u/GreedoWasShot Memphis Showboats Jun 02 '25

The biggest issue with Memphis is, it’s not a city with a lot of disposable income. And the UFL is minor league football - and the Grizzlies are major league Basketball. The little disposable income families do have tend to go to Grizzlies when they can.

1

u/Jaster22101 Battlehawks Fan 🦅 Forced to Live in DC 🛡️ Jun 02 '25

I understand. But also look up historical examples of football teams in Memphis

2

u/MCallanan Arlington Renegades Jun 02 '25

Bingo

2

u/Weary_Title_3901 Jun 03 '25

The Memphis Tigers seemed to draw decently.

2

u/TwizzlersSourz Birmingham Stallions Jun 03 '25

It wants NFL football.

0

u/Jaster22101 Battlehawks Fan 🦅 Forced to Live in DC 🛡️ Jun 03 '25

No not even. The titans played there for one season. It was not received well

3

u/TwizzlersSourz Birmingham Stallions Jun 04 '25

Because the city knew the team was bound for Nashville.

No one likes being used as a stopgap.

3

u/ThrowAway2MD Jun 02 '25

Houston and Memphis, kiss your teams goodbye

7

u/Heavy_Advice999 Michigan Panthers Jun 02 '25

Move Memphis and Houston...anywhere. Literally anywhere: Canton, Orlando, Seattle, Timbuktu.

I guess moving Birmingham would be embarrassing after they win their fourth straight title, wouldn't it? How about doing, you know, some damn marketing there...?

Arlington...meh. Without the sweetheart stadium deal, they'd be worthless.

San Antonio...maybe there's hope...? (Full disclosure: I'm wearing a San Antonio Commanders shirt at this very moment!)

Michigan, DC: Solid. (Fun fact: the original XFL was planning to expand to Detroit and Washington in 2002!)

St. Louis: What?! Attendance down 14%?! Kick 'em out, now...!!

1

u/Jaster22101 Battlehawks Fan 🦅 Forced to Live in DC 🛡️ Jun 02 '25

I agree move Memphis. But I’m still not sold on moving Houston. The team showed a lot of improvement despite CJ Johnson’s awful coaching. I think attendance can improve for Houston. Also moving teams doesn’t always guarantee success

3

u/Rhine1906 Birmingham Stallions Jun 02 '25

I don’t think moving anyone is a good idea right now. Memphis has been a shit team two years straight, send them to Louisville, they go 3-7 again and then what? If attendance continues to suffer move them again?

I’m not saying never move anyone, but I am saying two years with a shit team wouldn’t inspire anyone in confidence to support a team if they can just up and move.

1

u/ZCAlpaca74 Jun 02 '25

Dude I live in a town that plays class B football. Memphis had TWO THOUSAND at their last game.

Thats about 700 more people than my hole in the wall town.

SA was WORSE than Memphis and still had solid attendance. Location and loyal fans can make a difference. SA is a prime example

2

u/Answer-Outrageous Philadelphia Stars Jun 02 '25

OG USFL had territory drafts

2

u/Jaster22101 Battlehawks Fan 🦅 Forced to Live in DC 🛡️ Jun 02 '25

This could’ve been worse

2

u/Jaster22101 Battlehawks Fan 🦅 Forced to Live in DC 🛡️ Jun 02 '25

I say move Memphis. And run it back in Houston one more year because I feel like the move to Rice Stadium hurt them. And it’s a big market. If shit doesn’t improve next year then move them.

2

u/LetterheadCandid Jun 02 '25

Huge Jake Bates effect for the Panthers final week jump. Last Saturday’s game was a Bates bobblehead giveaway and there were massive lines wrapped around Ford Field an hour plus before kickoff. Have not seen anything similar at previous Panthers games. They need to continue to capitalize on giveaways and embrace quirkier opportunities for marketing.

2

u/BigusDickus099 Jun 02 '25

Memphis is done for sure, don't see any hope of them not being moved. Houston should be moved as well, but it is interesting how Houston is struggling while San Antonio and Arlington are somewhat consistent. Maybe the league thinks they can fix the situation in Houston and doesn't pull the plug.

Birmingham...I'm tired of the excuses for Birmingham. 3 championships is way beyond "wait and see if this league folds too" excuses.

It's become a blight on the league to have your champions playing in front of an empty stadium.

3

u/DontNoMe2 Jun 04 '25

Houston needs to be in an air conditioned dome. I went to 2 games and left w/ raccoon eyes and severe dehydration.

1

u/LongCategory6608 San Antonio Brahmas Jun 02 '25

San Antonio would have had a lot more people this year if they weren’t so bad

2

u/Tanker3278 Memphis Showboats Jun 02 '25

Ok. That's butts-in-seats. Which is more a metric for optics.

Those of you guys that know where to look to find the info - can we get this same chart for consolidated viewership numbers?

(Combined numbers from each network for a total per game number)

Add those two elements together and we'll have a clearer picture of the health of each team/market.

1

u/Squidimus St Louis Battlehawks Jun 02 '25

bobble heads are a big deal.

1

u/MCallanan Arlington Renegades Jun 03 '25

They weren’t for other teams that did bobble head promotions.

1

u/Smooth_Eye_939 Jun 03 '25

I would be curious to know how much of the Birmingham attendance was impacted by factors like increase in ticket prices and scheduling

3

u/Rude-Independent-203 Jun 04 '25

Tickets are a bit expensive for what it is imo plus it rained all damn month here (4th most rainfall in recorded history for Birmingham). I’m not paying those prices for the chance to get soaking wet watching minor league football

1

u/Rude-Independent-203 Jun 04 '25

For what it’s worth Birmingham just had the 4th rainiest month of may in recorded history. Lot of weekends where people didn’t do shit cause of the rain

1

u/Syphin33 Jun 09 '25

No reason for Memphis to have a football team with those figures man.

I am shocked they can't a team in Baltimore though, there's a huge market there.

1

u/lexus14blacklist Jun 17 '25

The LA Wildcats in 2020 were considered the worst team in the league by attendance, they would have had second best attendance this year.

1

u/Mysterious_Visit_482 Jul 28 '25

You mean the UFL still exists?

1

u/Gallalad New Jersey Generals Jun 02 '25

I am taking some obvious lessons from this. Mainly the UFL should not be even trying to compete in NFL Markets, DC being the obvious outlier every team playing in a city or area with an NFL team is pathetically low in attendance. They should be putting teams in smaller areas or areas underserved.

2

u/GuyOnTheMike Fan of the General Concept Jun 02 '25

The only market where attendance went up—and went up 43% from last year—is an NFL market

What about smaller non-NFL cities like Birmingham, Memphis, or San Antonio?...Oh wait

The lesson here is that yeah, you gotta try something different next year, but there's no obvious solution, no magic bullet. "Take away teams in NFL markets and put them in non-NFL cities" is a logical conclusion (and may very well be the solution), but the very mixed bag of results (spanning the entire spectrum from "rousing success" to "crash-and-burn disaster") makes it abundantly clear that the root cause of attendance issues and how they can be fixed are more complicated than they may appear on the surface.

1

u/MCallanan Arlington Renegades Jun 03 '25

The only market where attendance went up—and went up 43% from last year—is an NFL market

Not only that but for attendance nerds like ourselves there’s every reason to believe if and when Seattle (another NFL market) gets their team back that they’ll have strong attendance so long as their scheduling is done right.

0

u/Gallalad New Jersey Generals Jun 02 '25

I don’t mean to sound rude or dismissive, merely that based on absolute numbers (this was a down year which happens) the non NFL market teams except DC are better off than the NFL market teams (except Memphis). I’m just saying as expansion comes they should focus on smaller or underrepresented markets

1

u/Legitimate_Row6259 Jun 03 '25

Ouch. Maybe I just don’t understand the economics of the UFL but some of those numbers are brutal. Like… lower than a decent high school turnout brutal in some cases.

Minor league football just isn’t ever gonna work out, is it?

-39

u/Early_Remove_9940 Jun 02 '25

Defund the league. Minor league football doesn’t work, stop saying 18k is a success. You can pull that on one night at a minor league baseball game

14

u/otterbelle Jun 02 '25

The Lehigh Valley IronPigs had the highest attendance in all of minor league baseball in both 2023 and 2024. They averaged 8066 fans a night in 2024. The capacity of their stadium is just under 11000.

10

u/mediocracyisme DC Defenders Jun 02 '25

Yeah there’s no ballpark in MiLB that even has a capacity of 18000. Also 18k is a sellout at Audi. This dude ain’t got a clue what he’s talking about

7

u/Zapfit Jun 02 '25

Even too AAA baseball teams are only in the 6-7k range. I used to go to Staten Island Yankee games back in the day and the crowds hardly ever exceeded 1,500.

3

u/gorogergo St Louis Battlehawks Jun 02 '25

What would be working? Players are making it to the NFL, almost a half million attended in person, millions watched on TV, the owners are happy enough for another season.

And on another note what the fuck does "defund the league" even mean? The owners should pull out because it doesn't meet your criteria?

3

u/DingerSinger2016 Birmingham Stallions Jun 02 '25 edited Jun 02 '25

Lmao the Birmingham Barons pull like 3-5K a night. Regions Field's capacity is 8500. Unless they've installed invisible stands in Railroad Park and on top of the surrounding buildings, the brewery, Children's Hospital, the railroad bridge, and the freeway, there is no way they are pulling 18K nightly.

Rickwood Field, America's Oldest Ballpark and home to a one-off game of the Birmingham (Black) Barons every year, originally seated 10,800 but in it's MLB configuration seats 8300. 18,000 would require them to install temporary stands by the Willie Mays Practice Facility, the parking lot, the ground in between and including the old wall, and probably the railroad tracks as well.

Needless to say, 18,000 is an insane number to conjure up as a barometer of success for a minor league, especially minor league baseball.

Edit: Hoover Metropolitan Stadium, the other home for the Barons in the past, holds 10,800 but can be configured to hold 16,000. You could throw some temp stands in the parking lot and if you tear down the trees. If Hoover isn't doing that for Hoover High, the SEC Baseball Tournament, and the Barons, they damn sure won't do it for minor league football.

1

u/LongjumpingNinja258 Jun 02 '25

It’s not minor league. The fans keep labeling it as such but it’s not.

2

u/yesrushgenesis2112 St Louis Battlehawks Jun 02 '25

Yes it is. It markets itself as such by acknowledging that for many it’s a stepping stone to the NFL.

3

u/LongjumpingNinja258 Jun 02 '25

According to Daryl Johnson, the UFL describes itself as a “professional stand alone football league with goals of proving its major league value to the football landscape as a stand alone entity”

3

u/yesrushgenesis2112 St Louis Battlehawks Jun 02 '25

Yes, it is a professional minor league hoping to provide a high level of play. It is not and does not pretend to be competing with the NFL for talent. It is not an NFL alternative. It is not the highest level of play. Daryl Johnston using the term "major league value" does not negate the entirety of the minor league operations the league engages with on a day-to-day basis.

2

u/LongjumpingNinja258 Jun 02 '25

It’s not a minor league. Never has been. Never will be. Just because fans speculate on the label doesn’t change reality.

2

u/TwizzlersSourz Birmingham Stallions Jun 03 '25

It is a minor league.