r/UnitedFootballLeague • u/AdvancedCFB • Jul 24 '25
Discussion Michigan Panthers Should Change Stadiums Instead of Relocating
Keyworth has a capacity of 7,933, which is lower than Michigan's 11,681 average attendance, but would essentially guarantee sold out home games for the Panthers. Clearly the fanbase exists, unless Keyworth would be unwilling to install a football field for the UFL I think this is the best option.
The future is also bright. Detroit City FC is the primary tenant of Keyworth, and they are developing the 15,000 seat Corktown stadium. When this Stadium opens it gives the UFL two options: to either take over Keyworth as the primary tenant or move into Corktown. Both are great options that are more sustainable than the Detroit Lions stadium costs and does not abandon a growing Michigan Panthers fan base.
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u/talmudicdeer Seattle Dragons Jul 24 '25
Keyworth has two extremely big knocks against it besides size: it's extremely old, and extremely dilapidated. The Northern Guard and allies were able to save the stadium outright and fundraise for some improvements, but it would take a much more considerable effort to improve that stadium to UFL levels. Additionally, DCFC games in the middle of a residential neighborhood in Hamtramck have a charm, but when we're talking UFL that can quickly become a nightmarish traffic jam on gameday.
I love the idea, but in terms of what people are going to say in terms of "absolutely not", it's basically that.
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u/Skwownownow Michigan Panthers Jul 24 '25 edited Jul 24 '25
To piggyback off this, I don't know if OP is from the Detroit area, but while Keyworth has its charm for a USL match day, it is absolutely not capable of handling a UFL game. The stadium is fun and wonderful for all sorts of reasons but it is too small for players and personal on the sidelines and the immediate access to the locker rooms will be a huge risk for the players. EMU would be a much better place for the Panthers if Ford Field isn't an option
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u/AdvancedCFB Jul 24 '25
Considering DCFC has a $1 lease that required them to invest $700,000 in the stadium for a multiyear lease. The UFL should just offer the Public School ownership that they'd build a modern locker room at Keyworth. That would likely secure the lease for $1 and solve that issue.
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u/Skwownownow Michigan Panthers Jul 24 '25
Respectfully, have you been to the stadium?
Because that is not something that can just be done really quickly before the season starts. You're talking about a complete overhaul of the entire stadium. And if they did that, they wouldn't need to move away from the site in the first place.
I don't know the numbers or anything, but I know that stadium, and like I said in my original comment, it is not capable of holding UFL football. It is simply too small. To get it to a point where they can have a normal broadcast, and have both teams on opposite sides of the field would simply take far too much time and it would make more sense to wait for the new DCFC stadium to be built at the old hospital site.
I love Keyworth, I LOVE IT, but it is severely limited and that's why City is moving in the first place. I don't know the numbers behind things, and I won't pretend that I do. But logistically, putting a pro football team in that stadium would be a nightmare and a half. They are better off going to a local Highschool for their games. Or EMU, they practice there already so it makes the most sense in my eyes.
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u/Mundane-Club-7557 Michigan Panthers Jul 24 '25
Remember how they moved the vipers to a dog shit stadium (cashman) and no one went to the games? That’s what would happen here. Panthers would go from the best stadium in the league to a stadium that was long forgotten until DCFC saved it. So if the league moves the schedule up to after the super bowl that means the panthers are going to play in the worst stadium, way less amenities, in Michigan spring weather…
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u/Professional_Feed268 Jul 24 '25
The TV networks would push back heavily against Keyworth. A stadium without any infrastructure for TV would be a major problem for broadcast budgets.
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u/Neither-Gate1681 Jul 24 '25
I agree Keyworth likely isn’t suitable for pro football, but just to play devil’s advocate; DCFC has had several games on ESPN and CBS. I’m assuming FOX and ESPN would want a couple more cameras for football, but networks have got in there and really showcased it well.
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u/Professional_Feed268 Jul 24 '25
It's not a couple more cameras. It's close to 10x. Those shows are likely run through low-level packages, with 2-3 cameras and minimal audio. UFL broadcasts have 20+ cameras and 30+ microphones. Plus Skycam, which would likely require 4 cranes to be brought in to run from.
Basically, that boils down to a ton of rental infrastructure each week, plus likely an extra 1/2 set up day to run cables, especially if they want it removed for soccer games in between UFL games. The costs associated with that blow up in a hurry.
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u/Neither-Gate1681 Jul 24 '25
Fair enough. Just saying the CBS and ESPN soccer broadcasts have looked really good from Keyworth. I’m sure a football broadcasts is a whole different animal.
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u/AdvancedCFB Jul 24 '25
I think "UFL levels" are going to have to be lowered by the league if they want to survive. In regard to traffic, it fits less than 8,000, and I was not even considering capacity expansion for the exact reasons you've outlined. I see it as merely a 1-2 year home before moving into Corktown. Alternatively the UFL does upgrade with individual seats and capacity drops to ~6,500. A smaller stadium has much lower overhead and sellouts look great on TV.
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u/Zapfit Jul 24 '25
Those tickets would need to be astronomically expensive to even come close to covering players payroll then. I don’t think the average person will shell out $50+ for minor league football
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u/AdvancedCFB Jul 24 '25
7,500 x $20 x 5 is $750,000. That covers 12 players season salaries on ticket sales alone (just over a quarter of the team). And the UFL is mostly about TV revenue and having the lowest possible venue costs.
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u/Zapfit Jul 24 '25
Tv revenue isn’t coming close to covering costs either, with only around $25-30M coming in at most. Yearly expenses are in the $80-90M range
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u/AdvancedCFB Jul 24 '25
Even if you had all ~11,500 average attendees at each game it doesn't do enough to shift that gap. Considering there are very few suitable stadiums in Michigan, the option between $500,000 per game rent at Ford Field to sit 11,500, or something like the DCFC $1 lease and ~$700,000 invested into the Keyworth stadium in exchange for a multiyear lease, but you can only fit 7,900... The choice is pretty clear.
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u/IGot6Throwaways Jul 24 '25
Please explain how spending more money with less revenue and smaller crowds makes more financial sense
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u/AdvancedCFB Jul 24 '25
Ford Field is $2.5 million per season. $500,000 per game.
Keyworth's current DCFC contract is $1 per year, so long as DCFC invests $700,000+ in the stadium over the course of their residency before moving to their new stadium.
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u/mediocracyisme DC Defenders Jul 24 '25
If teams had an independent owners, they could secure a home field by contributing to the construction of new soccer stadiums for partial ownership
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u/Zapfit Jul 24 '25
That's why Michigan had a team to begin with. Dan Gilbert had expressed interest in ownership but quietly backed away after 2023.
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u/Oklahoman_ Arlington Renegades Jul 24 '25
Yeah that’s what I’m saying if the teams had independent private ownership they probably could’ve had a more stable bigger league
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u/ElvenAmerican Jul 24 '25
Also have to consider the overspending, etc. some owners of the USFL of old did as well.
Yes, the budget would be more robust per team, but there's also those side effects like the above.
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u/dcarp1231 Jul 24 '25
This is why it works so well for the Defenders at Audi Field. It’s a soccer stadium before anything else
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u/SockDem DC Defenders Jul 25 '25
They've already had talks with DCFC, DCFC even wanted the league to pay for some of the demo work. The problem is it won't be done till 2027, and this league needs to worry about 2026 and 2026 only right now.
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u/coelurosauravus Pittsburgh Maulers Jul 24 '25
I'ma say this as a Pittsburgh resident with a comparable stadium situation as Detroit. Our USLC team plays in the very small and underdeveloped Highmark stadium.....neither strike me as Football GameDay ready.
Camera infrastructure is limited, stadium seating is severely limited, locker room and operational facilities are under developed
The UFL needs, no extra work, can be played in that day, ready stadiums. It would take building extra seating, temporary locker rooms and additional TV infrastructure built in order to get these stadiums looking passable for national TV broadcast, and right now... That's probably going to cost more than to just pay the rent on another stadium in the area.
The Panthers are going to need another option in the metro area, sorry :/
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u/astroknight1701 Jul 24 '25
I feel for Panthers fans if this is true. Michigan and Birmingham played their first game against each back in 1983. As a Stallions fan I was happy to see the Panthers resurrected too. Along with great success this season you had increased attendance too. It sucks.
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u/TwizzlersSourz Birmingham Stallions Jul 24 '25
Do people on this sub think?
ABC and FOX aren't broadcasting from that bandbox.
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u/DoctorFenix St Louis Battlehawks Jul 24 '25
Soccer teams don’t want football on their pitch.
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u/LongjumpingNinja258 Jul 24 '25
This is another fairy tale propagated by the fans. They think new small stadium = instant access. Newsflash the UFL is not a priority for any venue.
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u/mczerniewski St Louis Battlehawks Jul 24 '25
DC plays their home games on a soccer pitch.
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u/DoctorFenix St Louis Battlehawks Jul 24 '25
And they pay DC United 250,000 dollars every season to replace the grass because they destroy it.
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u/AdvancedCFB Jul 24 '25
Detroit City FC doesn't own Keyworth. The public school system does, and I'm sure they'd gladly welcome the extra income. Then the UFL would have 1-2 years to show Detroit City FC that the Michigan Panthers would be a solid and respectful partner at Corktown.
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u/Marctheshark_ San Antonio Brahmas Jul 24 '25
The public school system does
Bye bye alcohol sales
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u/happyscrappy Michigan Panthers Jul 24 '25
https://www.detcityfc.com/matchday/stadium-guide/
'To quench their thirst, DCFC supporters will be able to purchase Cintron energy drinks, Faygo pop, or adult beverages from Brew Detroit, Tullymore Dew and Detroit City Distillery inside the stadium.'
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u/Jaster22101 Battlehawks Fan 🦅 Forced to Live in DC 🛡️ Jul 24 '25
Why not just go to EMU?
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u/MLS_K Jul 24 '25
The gray turf is an issue, apparently
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u/Jaster22101 Battlehawks Fan 🦅 Forced to Live in DC 🛡️ Jul 24 '25
why?
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u/WatercressIll Seattle Sea Dragons Jul 24 '25
Because FOX and ABC/ESPN think it’s ugly and will look bad on camera.
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u/ValosAtredum Michigan Panthers Jul 24 '25
Esp if Boise’s blue turf is fine.
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u/TwizzlersSourz Birmingham Stallions Jul 24 '25
Boise's blue turf is iconic.
EMU's gray turf is unknown and washed out.
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u/coelurosauravus Pittsburgh Maulers Jul 24 '25
Broadcasters dislike the grey turf allegedly and the camera angle is fairly distant from the field. Here's an EMU game vs Buffalo
I'll admit it's not terrible looking, but allegedly back in 2023 or late 2022 when the USFL approached EMU about potentially playing there, they pitched replacing the turf to try and improve optics. EMU apparently said no
It is what it is, I don't think this league is in the position to be choosers when begging
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u/Macklemore_hair Jul 25 '25
Heather Lyke’s legacy project before she set Pitt Athletics back 10 years. (Not sure why the text isn’t wrapping)
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u/davelb87 Jul 24 '25
I heard some talk about moving to Rynearson Stadium at EMU, too. Bigger problem is that markets like Detroit that already have NFL, high-level CFB, and in-season competition from MLB don’t feel like great bets long term. I suspect that’s why Seattle hasn’t gotten a second chance with the XFL and why things have been relatively quiet about bringing the Generals back to NY/NJ.
Minor leagues in a sport without a long history of them are a tricky sell, doubly so in major league markets.
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u/ElvenAmerican Jul 24 '25 edited Jul 24 '25
NYC has a history of minor league failure with the WFL (New York Stars), USFL (NY/NJ Generals), etc.
Stars' owners in the 1970s had to renovate (or attempted to) Downing Stadium, IIRC, and even with what they pumped into it... still made Stars' home games less than desirable, and when lighting worked, lit half the field effectively (on par with high school levels).
(Also, the reason why they had to use such a crippled stadium, is regardless of what they did, the Mets/Yankees, especially the Yankees' were like: You're not using our stadium, and the city has an exclusive lease with us, etc.)
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u/tomdawg0022 Jul 25 '25
The USFL 1.0 Generals drew relatively well (they were 3rd in the league in attendance and averaged 33k, 37k, and 41k per game over their three seasons) but a certain someone spent a ton of money on putting together that roster.
The XFL 1.0 team was 2nd in attendance (28k per).
By spring standards, that's good.
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u/johndeer89 Jul 24 '25
I am all about the snake stadiums. It looks so much better then playing at a 70k stadium with 4k people.
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u/cleesmith2 Jul 24 '25
Just put natural grass down over top of the ugly gray turf. Take it up before EMUs season begins.
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u/AffectionateCat6319 Jul 24 '25
I hope they stay in Michigan Ford field was getting too expensive every time they played there. Even though Ford field made them look more natural like they belong and they Do belong.
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u/QueasyTap3594 Michigan Panthers Jul 24 '25
I really think traverse city would do well. A lot of spring tourism up there
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u/JackM0429 Michigan Panthers Jul 25 '25
lol keyworth is not capable at all even if you change the field
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u/_jagwaz Jul 25 '25
Move to Saginaw. Midland/Bay City/Saginaw metro area has a population of over 400,000, has done great at supporting both the Great Lakes Loons and Saginaw Spirit, and you're only an hour north of Flint.
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u/Admirable_Excuse_702 Jul 28 '25
Send them to Grand Rapids. Over 1 million metro area and no major league teams.
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u/WolfPackMentality90 Jul 31 '25
There is zero proof that ANY team is relocating.....until the UFL says anything these are just rumors with no proof
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u/CoachJumboDiggs Jul 31 '25
They literally just need to find a temporary stadium for one year, then move into the new MLS stadium in 27. Just bite the bullet and deal with the EMU grey turf for a year.
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u/Neither-Gate1681 Jul 24 '25
I love the idea in theory and it’s been a great soccer venue but I agree, I don’t see it working as a pro football facility. It’s too small and too outdated. If they can get Rynearson, the Glass Bowl, or even somehow work out a deal with Ford Field for another year or two, I think the Panthers playing in DCFC’s future stadium is a perfect fit. If it’s true the gray turf was a dealbreaker with Rynearson, I’m gonna scream.
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u/Monkey1Fball Jul 24 '25
Glass Bowl's an interesting thought. I've loved watching games there.
The "danger" there is that Toledo itself may adopt the team a bit TOO much - and wouldn't want to give it up. Toledo has good fans.
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u/johndeer89 Jul 24 '25
I like to rip on the usfl, but dammit, Michigan deserves a team. The league has done horribly trying to market itself, but somehow, despite their worst efforts, Michigan actually grew in attendance. And now the league is gonna take their team away? Fucking ridiculous.