"Team A, go use the water in the truck to fight the fire. Team B, go smash that car's windows! It is important that they are smashed well if we are to properly deal with this fire!"
I promise this isnât about defending the car being parked there, this is more about the necessity/measured response.
Iâd be happy if they smashed the driver window, put the car in gear and then pushed the car into the ocean or off a cliff. I do not care what happens to the car, I guess I just care how long the fire fighters take to do it.
Why not drag the metal tools over the hood and âaccidentallyâ swing the heavy metal part of the hose into the windshield?
Letâs punish the idiot for parking near a fire hydrant efficiently!
I think the issue is this was entirely un-needed and a total waste of time. The car is near the hydrant, but from other angles it's clearly not blocking it.
Necessity/measured response? They're letting a building burn while taking time to smash out windows of a car they didn't have to even touch here.
Yeah, it's not about the owner of the car getting by fucked over. No one could care less if they smashed his windows. It's the point of it clearly took him his sweet ass time to fuck with someone unrelated while the actual victims are suffering while their stuff burns.
Fuck the guy who parked there. But more importantly, double fuck the firemen who thought it was more necessary to do this to stick it to another person kinda in the way than it was to tend to the fire as fast as possible. The only person who loses here is people whose shits on fire.
It was mentioned above that the fire truck has its own water tank and they were connecting it to the hydrant to make sure it doesnt run out. The had most probably enough time and werent risking peoples lifes in the fire by smashing those windows.
Honestly I dont care about that, the driver didnt care about not parking his car next to it and thus couldve actually made a hypothetical situation worse, he shouldnt complain about the consequences.
Though the fireman couldve just dragged the hose over the roof and not risk cutting the tubing with the glass shards from the windows.
I try to think that the system is faulty if a professional firefighter sees this as something that they need to spend time with as opposed trying to do their actual job.
Can't they just tell the police to put a clamp on that car and a massive fine? This really is something that police should be dealing with. Surely the firefighters have something more pressing to focus at?
Iâm curious if the output is pointing up the sidewalk to where the car is parked and if they were to go over the hood or in front of the car it would be too tight a turn. Still, if that were the case, they could just go around the back of the car. Otherwise, this is behavior Iâd expect from cops, not firemen.
IMO, fireman are in the same mind set the cops are , civil servants with a little less power than there brethren. But the power goes to there heads just the same.
Yeah, great time to send a message; fuck your car, also fuck the victims of the fire that I'm not rushing to help contain in an efficient manner.
Ooh fuck the car owner, let me fuck over the unrelated victims in the process. Great message "the fire department cares more about being petty than it does doing an emergency."
In the same comment thread you just replied to, I explain that they have a tank in the truck that they use while connecting to the hydrant. Are you doing this on purpose?
I am half joking. The car is in the way but the picture is just comical. The best idea is just run the hose over the car and let the owner deal with the scratches
They created more bends and kinks by going through the car than they would have if they just went over or in front of the car. He wasted 30 seconds unnecessarily breaking out the windows.
âThe fire hydrant is 2 feet in front of the carâ
Exactly. The car SHOULD be 15â on either side of the hydrant. End of.
Anything you say after reading that is an excuse for stupid behavior. Be better.
Considering the hydrant is 2-3 feet past the front bumper of said vehicle, they have access.
Also, what hurts more? Getting windows busted in, or getting a court summons with no additional damage and a fine. In this case, they have some right to damages from the department/city aka your taxes if there is reason to believe this action was not necessary and could lead to zero fine for parking in the fire zone.
If the action were determined to be unnecessary and with malice, one could argue the opposite were true. Happens all the time with people who break the law and police use excessive force to apprehend/subdue.
Just because a law is broken doesnât entitle a civil servant the right nor authority to do whatever they want in response. If that were true, any speeding limit broken can be met with capital consequences and you nor I could say anything about it.
Focus on the facts: they broke the law by parking there, and the law they broke was specifically addressing the issue that led to their car becoming damaged. Good luck convincing a Judge that this should get past summary judgment.
If you listen to the audio there sounds like they have some sort of collapse indicating there is a large fire and they need to get maximum water out of the hydrant that includes the side ports as well as the front steamer port.
The only message the owner is getting is "Fuck the Police and Fuck Firemen".
I doubt he's there thinking "I see the error of my ways and the firemen had a very good reason to do this and were completely in the right and I'll never do this again."
The owner clearly doesnât respect firemen or fellow city dwellers if theyâre blocking access to a fire hydrant. Smashing their windows is a direct, immediate consquence of their antisocial behavior.
So next time they think about parking on the painted curb, theyâll remember what happens when they do that.
If they're dumb enough to park in front of a hydrant, their dumb enough to make their takeaway from this interaction "Fuck firemen" and not go past that.
I just love people who think a message is clear but forget they're dealing with idiots.
Protip: Don't park in front of a fire hydrant. Maybe they don't teach this anymore, but when I was getting my drivers license a long, long time ago, that was one of the few things they made sure to teach me.
That would be true if the hydrant had a straight-line connection. The hose hookup on those isn't perfectly perpendicular to the street it's actually angled to the side, right where that car is.
The five inch is slightly to the right, but any good crew is carrying a hydrant assist valve to extend the options for a serious fire which they should be prepared for when pushing a hydrant to the pump truck. I have seen plenty of crews kink lines even pushing through a fully blocked pump by a vehicle that would warrant a window punch.
The truck is parked and being actioned, thus this is where it will be positioned. It is taking more time to ready a position to pass to the right and through the car to come back left to the pump. It would be better for everyone involved to put the assist on, the. Push to the truck and if necessary, punch the windows for another truck ahead.
It's easy to fault the fire department when you weren't there and you have no idea what other reasons they might have for smashing the windows. If you just follow the traffic laws, this can be avoided.
Or, you could just be giving civil servants an unnecessary pass. That doesnât hold water with me. There is more than enough here to show that they acted with malice rather than with procedural intent.
Sounds like the same BS argument for giving police a pass for abusing power.
You can't criticize a cop for killing an unarmed thief it's his hands up. You might hinder their efforts in an emergency! Just don't break any non violent law and cops murdering people can be avoided.
Point still stands, it's illegal to park in front of a fire hydrant. And before you say they weren't parked directly in front of it, they were clearly partially blocking it. If you don't want to risk having your windows smashed and getting a ticket or towed then don't even partially block fire hydrants. Pretty simple.
You make no senseâŚliterally the photo posted a few comments above shows the hose going through the windows they smashed, WITH KINKS IN IT. Not sure why you so willing to die on this hill but each their own I guess. You wrong though.
That's the dumbest video proof in that video. They literally took the fire house and purposely ran it to the left and behind the tire instead of directly under the car.
Maybe it's slightly faster to pull the hose around the back of the car but I mean.. shoving it underneath can't be that much harder.
They have a phot elsewhere where they had to take a near 90° bend and kink the hose to get in the window they busted and likely did it again to go out and get past the fire truck.
The car isn't boxed in you can see a gap in front of it more than big enough to get the tow truck in with a small move on the part of the engine. Don't park in front of hydrants or suffer for your idiocy.
They can get to the hydrant and get a line in, no need for a tow. This is just retaliation, pure and simple. They care less to get at the fire and more about policy.
Big firefighting guy are you? You haven't got a clue what is required to deal with the situation in the video you've just got your knickers in a twist because someone has had to eat the consequences of doing something they knew they shouldn't be doing.
It's not that hard to just follow the rules and not act like an entitled dickhead.
The gap in front of it IS THE FIRE HYDRANT. if there's a gap big enough for a tow truck, there's a gap big enough for the hose attachment.
Plus if they were going for the handbreak, they would just need to smash one window. They were smashing windows to snake the hose through the car because they can, even though it is a waste of time and pulling the fire truck back 4 feet, or just slamming the hose on top of the vehicle, would have resolved this situation just as well. It may even have damaged the vehicle, but clearly that wasn't their goal, they wanted to teach the owner a lesson, not have a hose do it for them.
I know it's generally known not to park near a hydrant, but every city I've been in (never driven in NYC despite living an hour away) has the no park zones clearly marked, and they're usually about 3 to 4 feet on either side of a hydrant. This hydrant is marked with obvious poles and nothing else, the driver parked outside those poles. It's only partially the drivers fault, at best, that the zone wasn't properly marked.
They need to smash the windows to get the handbrake off so they can tow the car easier.
No, they smashed the windows to feed the pipe through completely unnecessarily. In fact, if you watch the full video the hose end up twisted around because they fed it through the car windows
Can speak to the experience of friends who are fire fighters and they smash the windows to get the brake off to make towing easier. If they use the hole to feed the hose fair play doesn't mean they aren't justified in breaking the windows which is the whole point of the post this comment thread is sucking each others dicks over. Don't park in front of hydrants. It's that simple.
This firefighter took the time to break the car's windows while their was fire burning when it was completely unnecessary. That's worthy of being called out.
They didn't tow the car, and they didn't need to feed the hose through the car windows. So the fact that they not only wasted time smashing the windows but also fed the hose through which resulted in the hose ending up twisted could have all been avoided
Look at where the hydrant is in position to the car. The hose is going to need to bend much more to go through those 2 windows than over or around the car
Bro just watch the video. Eddie fucking Hall couldn't force a fire hydrant hose through those car windows. You need to break all 14 laws of physics and shit on Newton's grave to even get it through one. There's like 10 feet of separation between the hydrant and the first window, at basically a 90 degree angle..
There isnât and never was a hose through that car. Show me the next 90 seconds of the video. They broke those windows to be pricks. And pricks with âauthorityâ are the worst kind of pricks.
Fr "those hose won't bend enough to go around or over the car with one singular, maybe 45-degree angle, but it WILL make two 90-degree bends just fine!"
No person shall stop, stand or park a vehicle within fifteen feet of a fire hydrant...
I imagine there's a technical reason for the fifteen foot requirement. Maybe multiple pump trucks can attach to a hydrant, or the hoses have to attach aligned with the road and not across it.
When full hydrant pressure those hoses BARELY bend, and any kink will drastically reduce flow. This person is a fucking moron and if they arenât trolling, I would guess are not a very functional member of society.
But in this case, the hydrant isnât next to the car, therefore, a hose through the windows he smashed, would be bent in a 90 degree angle, would it not? I think they could have just laid the hose before the car on the street.
You can bend these hoses, not like a garden hose but they can turn 90 degrees over like 5-6 feet of length. Be less of a waste of time if homeboy used a hammer or something instead of that awkward ass coupling heâs holding. Swinging it like it isnt his grandmaâs purse.
Omg you guys!! The thing to connect the hydrant to the hose is on THE SIDE OF THE HYDRANT. Not in front of it!! If they put the hose on the hood it won't be able to bend at a sharp enough angle to reach the side of the hydrant.
Man look at where the car is parked. They will loop it through the car then turn 90 degrees all the way to the front of the car and a bit even beyond. Donât tell me this was necessary because âbendingâ. I understand, donât park near it. But this is just the firefighter being on a power trip to prove a point.
Saying âPower tripâ is stupid. It sets a precedent if they do this across the board. Donât park next to a fucking hydrant. As can clearly be seen by the amount of times this happens deterrents are necessary because people are assholes and dgaf if they think it wonât affect them.
Fire trucks have water reserves they can use whilst this is being doneâŚ
And also what is a heavy enough fine for you? In England parking fines can be ÂŁ100 but people still park illegally. Speeding fines increase and you can lose your licence but repeat offenders are common. If your family member god forbid suffers injuries in a fire because fines arenât deterring people from actually blocking the hydrant are you happy with the vehicle owner being reprimanded and given the fine? I donât get how in America people can shoot home intruders and thatâs all good but smash a guys car window for blocking access to something that could help save lives and everyone is up in arms
That's absolutely nothing, lol. That's chump change to anyone who doesn't make shit money, let alone good money like many in NY. What will deter assholes who don't care about fines is when their stuff gets broken.
Fire fighters do not fuck around lol, there's even a video from Montreal where they push cop cars out of the way to get to a fire.
Actually, having seen the full video now, I disagree on the entire premise of the conversation.
The video shows the clear distance in front of the car, honestly, the car seems to be parked before a pole marking the free zone marketed for the hydrant.
Again, look at where the car is parked. They actually went out of their way to break through it and loop the pipe. There is space in front of the car. The law is donât block access to the hydrant not donât park anywhere near it.
Everyone agrees on that. This dialogue is about the necessity of the window smashing in this exact instance, due to a much clearer line to the hydrant being available
But you'll need to bend it quite extremely once through the windows in order to reach the hydrant?
I'd understand if the windows were close to the hydrant, but the hood is. The driver should face some punishment, without question, but there should be some form of paperwork and review process also.
If we just give cart blanche to firefighters to smash cars 'near' hydrants, we create a new problem.
Who are you arguing against? Flipping the car? Where do you think the hose is supposed to go? Can you not tell that the fire hydrant is a full 3 feet in front of the entire car?
Those hoses are over a hundred lbs empty. It will scratch the hood and bend in the hood, not including potentially damaging any engine parts underneath.
a 50ft 2.5 inch hose (the biggest) weighs up to 75lbs dry. But we're talking about a 5 foot section. lets triple that and say 15 total feet weighing on the hood. That's still only about 20lbs when wet. And that's somehow worse than breaking both windows?
supply hoses are commonly 4 or 5 inch. some departments will also order 100ft sections of hose instead of 50ft. start adding water to that and it starts to get heavy fast. if they have a connection to the front bumper, iâm used to seeing a 25ft section.
as far as the windows being broken⌠you canât see the large diameter discharge from the video, so they probably have to hook the supply hose up to the side facing the car. itâs plausible they might try to place the hose through the windows and connect to the front bumper. i wasnât there and the video doesnât show everything so all i can do is guesstimate.
Municipal firefighting supply hose is 5â with a Storz coupling at the end. Itâs double jacketed to make it abrasion resistant and rubber lined but that substantially increases the weight.
This wonât be a case of whether the static load is too heavy or not, it will be a case of correctly figuring out the forces at play when this thing is at 800 PSI. It could slip off the roof and kill someone while trying to straighten out a kink. They go through windows because the carâs presence is an unexpected variable and the window frames can brace the hose.
Yeah they like breaking windows, but theyâre not encouraged to Rush being wrong and going with a tried and true solution
Can you not tell where the fire hydrant is in relation to the car in this video? It's 3 feet in front of the car. Why would they bend a 4 inch hose 90 degrees sideways twice so it can go through the windows?
When lives are at stake thereâs no room for âletâs try this and see if it worksâ. Science is a thing. That amount of weight and pressure you canât just cinch the hose and try again.
Maybe just sit the next couple rounds out, your stupidity is glowing
Are you unable to tell that the fire hydrant is a full 3 feet in front of the car? Do you think fire hoses are 6 feet wide? They would have to physically go out of their way to bend it all the way over to the window of the car. And you're calling out my stupidity?
Youâve obviously never handled LDH. That shit aint going up stairs or around corners or anywhere like that. Also when its full it weighs about 8.5lbs per foot so you are definitely not moving it.
5 inch plastic coated supply line is not the same as 1 1/4 or 2 inch attack lines or help even 3 in lines that are cloth covered and much more flexible.
The idea is they go through the windows and put the hose through the windows if youâre directly in front of a hydrant. Because your car is blocking access and the hose will be straight if itâs going through your car. This video is then just smashing his windows in because heâs near a hydrant and there is a fire. To teach him a lesson I assume
It's like that time when I was 16 and we got caught drinking beer in the woods by the police and the cop took my cigarettes and smoked them while they called our parents.
Well as the fireman isn't a judge, handing out punitive measures is illegal, he basically just criminally damaged a car. The car may deserve a ticket but again not the fireman's job.
There's validity to always doing this, if its guaranteed that even if you're not technically in the way they will damage your car in this way then people are less likely to take the risk and park a little close, hopefully keeping the space clear
A modern urban pumper truck like that can output up to 30 gallons per second. A fire hydrant can output nearly the same. You don't think doubling the amount of water quelching a fire could potentially save a life? Are you being funny or just really that dense?
You do know the âextraâ water from the hudrant doesnt go straight to the nozzle, right? It goes to the tank, to the nozzle. Tanks on Engines are usually at least 500 gallons.
Besides the fact that fire hydrants are in fact used straight to the nozzle as well as to the truck, are you saying the truck didn't need any additional water pumped into it asap?
In general, most fire hydrants are low pressure. 60-100 PSI. That is not enough working pressure to fight a fire.
You will use the fire engine's pump to get enough water pressure. And the truck has more than enough water to start the initial "fire fighting" as it were.
And you know for a fact that this was at the beginning of the fire and not when they needed more water in the truck later on or that the fire truck was 100% full of water?
No. How can I know this? But I can infer from experience that yes, they are full of water. That is the first thing you check when a truck gets back from a fighting a fire. Its a part of daily checks, and it is one of the responsibility's of the person using the pump to see to that the team has the water and pressure they need.
If you can't be sure that the truck was completely full and that this is when the fire started, why did you respond so condescendingly to my original comment? You assumed they wouldn't need to refill because the truck had enough water and therefore using the hydrant couldn't help save a life.
I did not respond condescendingly to your comment. I just told you what I actually know to be true. If you read it as such, then I apologize. My point was that the trucks have enough water to start firefighting, but they need additional water added as the situation progresses.
I never assumed that they wouldn't need refills. They definitely do. But they have enough water to start the initial firefighting, securing their personnel, etc with them.
They are in their rights to get that water they way the on-scene commander sees fit, even going so far as to break windows on a car that is parked where it shouldn't.
Where do you work where you hook an attack line up directly to the hydrant? Iâve never heard of anywhere doing that so please educate me.
Additionally, nowhere did I say or allude to the Engine not needing additional water. Of course it does if engaged in firefighting operations. But it takes time to pull the initial line, get it to the door, mask up, force entry, charge the line, check the nozzle pattern and then advance to the fire. During all of that, the Engineer just has to charge the line when told and secure a water supply. And (where I work at least) the water supply is usually the job of the second-due Engine.
So if I dont know what Im talking about please enlighten me. I mean that geuinely, Iâve only been a firefighter since 2008 and I donât want to be ignorant about any part of my job.
The whole point of my original comment was that the extra water from the hydrant would be immediately useful in putting out a fire and potentially saving a life and you argued that it's not useful on it's own without going into a fire truck tank. But I never said that's the only way they could use it. Either way they could have needed that water asap but were taking their time breaking windows. Do you still think there's something to argue against me?
Please explain to me exactly what âextra water from the hydrantâ means. Because in my experience, theres no such thing as âextraâ water. Im not trying to be rude, but Iâve been a firefighter for a fair amount of time, and unless you can more clearly specify what you mean, then Iâm going to be eventually forced to conclude that you donât know what youâre talking about.
Just the fact alone that you seem not to understand Engines and Trucks are distictly different in a lot of places is already a clue that you dont understand the fire service.
Which is fine, but it means my answer to your question is that yes, I very much still feel I have something to argue against you. Because I know what Iâm talking about, and so far it seems like you do not. So please, explain to me what you mean.
Fire truck, fire engine, you know what I mean. By extra I mean if the fire engine tank were to run low or empty, the hydrant would refill it. That's what I mean by extra water. If hydrants didn't supply extra water they would be pointless. The extra water saves lives.
First of all, Engines and Trucks are different, and "you know what I mean" is just proof that's something you don't know. In my firehouse, there is a Truck AND an Engine. So if I told you to grab a tool off the Engine and you brought one from the Truck, you'd look foolish.
Second of all, yes hydrants supply the tank on the Engine. As I explained in quite a detailed manner above, fireground operations are specifically designed to prevent the tank from running out of water before a water supply from a hydrant can be established. There is no "extra" water. There is tank water, and then there's the water supply. The water supply *keeps* the tank full.
It takes much longer for an 1 3/4" attack line (which is industry standard) to empty a 500 gallon tank than it does to hook up to a hydrant.
There is no "extra water to save lives." It seems like you're purposefully going out of your way to make an argument for something that doesn't really exist.
Dude your whole argument is based on semantics rather than the substance of my original point. There s water in the big red fire truck. Adding any additional water to it totally can be considered 'extra' water. Extra water to put out a fire is good when used in any capacity. That's always been my whole point. Are you done yet or do you want to argue that I don't know what 'red' is and it's actually burgundy?
That doesn't change anything. You are flowing water the closer you get to the fire. That shits hot in there and could ignite before you even get to the fire area. You only have about 5-6-7 minutes of water till you are out. Especially a big fire in NYC yeah you wanna connect to a hydrant so you have constant water flow.
Yeah but that only lasts so long. The engineer has to make that connection so he can get back and do more important things rather than go out of his way to smash a window of an uninvolved car while wearing shorts
Christ you fucking redditors are so moronic. No, they have a tank of water that they use until theyâve connected their hose. When the hose is connected to the hydrant, it will refill the tank. Itâs not an infinite tank. Use your brain
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