r/Wildfire • u/smokejumperbro USFS • Feb 19 '25
News (General) Hiring freeze of firefighters could be deadly, Forest Service captain warns
https://www.nbcnews.com/weather/wildfires/hiring-freeze-firefighters-deadly-forest-service-captain-warns-rcna192494Great one!
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u/realityunderfire Feb 19 '25 edited Feb 19 '25
As I’ve been watching all this unfold for the past 29 days my main thought has been: this season is going to be dangerous. Especially if it’s an active season.
My prediction is massive lack of leadership presence Massive lack of funding for anything Massive shortage of work force
Any other predictions I missed?
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u/SparkyDogPants Feb 19 '25
That’s the point. Government firefighters are going to fail (by design) so that politicians can argue they’re ineffective, cut all government firefighting and give their buddies no bid contracts
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Feb 19 '25
massive lack of timely or accurate weather forecasts once the NWS has its staff cut by 50 percent or is disbanded entirely due to privatization. Don't worry, it's not like many high profile burn overs have to do with lack of weather info or anything.
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u/lowsparkedheels Feb 19 '25
Trump has never liked to pay his bills, be it contractors, taxes, lawyers or communities where he holds his rallies.
Why would anyone think he would change his grift?
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u/realityunderfire Feb 19 '25
And even if he did space Karen would just pluck it out of the checking account.
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u/Butterfly_1729 Feb 19 '25
I’m wondering if this will affect fire contracts as well. Why would a contractor accept a federal contract if Trump is not going to pay?
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u/lowsparkedheels Feb 19 '25
Correct. The whole idea is to get out of paying independent contractors and subcontractors (really anyone) the value of work performed.
In addition, this new 'doge' system that Trump/Elon are ramrodding onto American govt agencies is operating under nebulous practices with absolutely no oversight.
This business model will carry onto the private business sector.
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u/pessimist_and_proud Feb 19 '25
Who’s to say firefighting wont turn to the private sector? Supply and demand, no?
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u/rockshox11 :hamster: Feb 19 '25
If you think every fed firefighter will go contract, you don't know firefighters. I don't know at what ratio feds will go contractor, sooner state and county once they realize they're on the hook for IA. It'll just defer the tax cost elsewhere.
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u/wimpymist Feb 19 '25
Plus no fed firefighter is going to take a step backwards pay/benefits/respect and go contract. They will just go into a different field entirely.
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Feb 19 '25
I certainly wouldn't be interested in being a contract firefighter stuck on some god forsaken hillside to save a timber company a few dollars. Suppression for profit is like being a mercenary in a failed war for me. Might be convinced to go on a burn crew and do RX in the southeast though.
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u/Far-Drive26 Feb 25 '25
Curious how much is fed firefighter pay for a entry level firefighter who just got his red card? I know ya'll get benefits and stuff we don't but, we make $26 an hour base pay and then almost $5 health and wealthfare that just gets added into our paycheck so $31 total, and then time and a half for overtime. The most I've ever made in a 14 day roll with getting mostly 16's as a plain FFT2 was around 5 grand. Now I know ya'll get guaranteed 40 hr paychecks during season even when not on fire, but do ya'll really make that much more than us? Cause I always see ya'll talk about how contractors get paid so much less and how no one wants to work for contractors, but I'm curious do you guys actually get better pay than us, cause guys on my crew that switched from fed to contractor have quite the opposite to say about Fed pay. Also why is it a step backwards respect wise, yes obviously we don't have as elite of crews like shots and jumpers, but our standard hand crews are no less capable than fed hand crews.
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u/YOLO_Bundy Feb 19 '25
Have you checked to see what contractors pay lately? It is definitely not worse than the feds.
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Feb 19 '25
I went private after 9 seasons. Full-time and they cover my health insurance. Much happier now
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u/wubadubdub3 RTCM Feb 19 '25
Trolling i guess. Here is where they said they took the "Fork in the Road Payout" and are working with the feds until Feb 26th. Unless they started their contract job a week ago, they are lying.
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u/wimpymist Feb 19 '25
It will turn to the private sector but it's not like all the fed firefighters will just go contract.
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u/Alohasnackbar69420 Feb 19 '25
Think of firefighters like soldiers, sailors or marines. Sure, some get out and go the mercenary route.
The overwhelming majority believe in the mission and esprit de corps. I’d be shocked to see people go work for a contractor en masse
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u/Busy_Lightnin_Bug Feb 19 '25
your career ladder promotions are on hold too.
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u/Timoftheforest Feb 19 '25
Haven’t seen documentation of this, when did this happen?
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u/ZonaDesertRat Feb 19 '25
Promotions and details are part of the freeze. They are not part of the exemption, and must be individually cleared to be flown.
Grade and with-in grade are not, at least currently, part of the freeze, but know grade increases are not automatic. The agency can choose to hold them back, to be reviewed if they so choose.
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u/Darth_Ra Dirty COMT Feb 19 '25
Not only that, but a lot of folks are super paranoid about taking a promotion right now, or even a detail, as it could put you on a short list.
A ton of the "probationary" folks that just got fired weren't new employees, they'd just taken a new position. My specific position has been working to reclassify ourselves for a decade now, and in the last month the people who have been pushing for it the hardest have had to start being like "well, now we're not so sure that we want it, because you'll fire us all".
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u/Busy_Lightnin_Bug Feb 19 '25
Since the freeze started. I dont understand why or how it can have anything to do with bringing new folks on board. I just know that they are on hold. I am not saying they are cancelled or will not happen, just that they are on hold. I expect they will be backdated when permission to proceed is received.
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u/ZonaDesertRat Feb 19 '25
You probably meant to say backfilled, meaning filling the vacant position. Backdating a position is not allowed by OPM, in that backpay is not authorized for delays in the processing of promotions or grade increases.
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u/Busy_Lightnin_Bug Feb 19 '25
No. I meant backdated. The bargaining agreement between the USFS & NFFE allows for backdating a career ladder promotion if the position is covered by NFFE. The NFFE bargaining agreement also covers supervisory positions at the GS-9 level & below (with one exception) but only for positions that are covered by primary or secondary firefighter retirement. I am not sure how they will handle delayed career ladder promotions for positions on forests that are not covered by the NFFE agreement or supv posns thay are GS-10 or higher.
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u/ZonaDesertRat Feb 19 '25
To include pay? Was this part of the new master agreement?
It wasn't allowed many moons ago when it happened to me and when I was involved in union business. Good change.
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u/Busy_Lightnin_Bug Feb 19 '25 edited Feb 19 '25
Yup. If the CLP is backdated, the employee receives backpay as well. I have backdated a CLP to a date over one year in the past!!
It is in the current NFFE agreement.
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u/R5hotshoot Feb 19 '25
Citation from the master agreement?
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u/Busy_Lightnin_Bug Feb 19 '25
NFFE Master Agreement, effective date 6-4-24, article 16, paragraph 11c.
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u/Most-Background8535 Feb 19 '25
Don’t expect that raise. Expect contractors coming in. The WCF is basis on climate change. The government has changed its mind in that. Doesn’t exist and that fund is gonna go away fast.
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u/realityunderfire Feb 19 '25
Great, being a contractor is going to suck even more. We used to be judged as poop, no we’re poop on your shoe. All this shit makes me sick.
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u/SientoQueMerezcoMas Feb 19 '25
Our regional fuels call today stated WCF finding is frozen. WCF landscapes will have to use NFHF/HFSE for any implementation
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u/ccoppert03 Feb 19 '25
Can we please just strike and let the world burn already. Do something or shut up
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Feb 19 '25
What does this mean for me as a state wildland firefighter (not BLM or Forest Service)?
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u/burnt_squirrels Feb 19 '25
You shouldn’t be getting downvoted. That’s a good question and I’d encourage you to also bring it to your overhead. We all rely on one another to some extent and a derelict of coverage by an agency will affect its neighboring district.
Not knowing if you’re a first or tenth year - keep the black with you and know you’ll have to rely less on aircraft and dispatch this upcoming year. No med plan? Turn that shit DOWN. You and your homies are numero uno, amigo. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.
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Feb 19 '25
I don’t understand why I’d be getting downvoted either, I meant no harm to anyone. Just a question as the fire season here in NM is going to kick off in another month 1/2 to two months. I just want to know if I can get back into the best job I’ve ever had safely without feeling anxiety 🤷♂️
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u/SientoQueMerezcoMas Feb 19 '25
Worst case scenario - no fed resources like you usually can count on for the big one.
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Feb 19 '25
Got 3 new guys starting Sunday.
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u/HeywoodGiablomi Feb 19 '25 edited Feb 19 '25
What agency? Is their hiring unfrozen?
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u/Be_Determined Feb 19 '25
Can confirm USFS, at least in R5, is starting to see some exemptions come through for new hires along with amended confirmation letters and start dates… these are all phase 1 hires, and are running only one PP behind the original date so far
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u/Darth_Ra Dirty COMT Feb 19 '25
Meanwhile reportedly in NC, dispatchers are being fired for being probationary.
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u/Far-Drive26 Feb 25 '25
I'm all for cutting the fat and trying to cut down on government spending and tax payer dollars by reducing the overall federal workforce, but I'm not a big fan of the way it's being done, also I don't understand why musk has any say in anything or is part of the new administrations cabinet, no one voted for Musk he's not an elected official so why is he running shit. I don't think just having a massive hiring freeze and firing everyone is a good way to go about government efficiency. They should have had a list of jobs that were exempt from this freeze, including all essential public safety and 1st responder jobs. I would have no problem with them going after the higher ups of the forest service and USDA and trying to sort out wasteful spending from the top down, but the average federal employee isn't the problem its the people running these agencies that are. A few bad apples shouldn't mean you just get rid of everyone. Hopefully this is only temporary and once the freeze is over they give all the essential workers their jobs back and unfreeze the hiring.
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u/MasterBlueberry8382 Feb 19 '25
I got hired immediately, sucks to suck
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u/Lapatron Feb 19 '25
I got a tentative offer, that's it that was about a month ago. Haven't heard anything since. Tempted to go work for a contractor tho.
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u/SeaworthinessDear431 Feb 19 '25
Have you gotten anything besides a phone call, doubt it.
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u/MasterBlueberry8382 Feb 19 '25
Yea I got a start date and everything dumbass
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u/SeaworthinessDear431 Feb 19 '25
Well little princess good for you, leave some room in the engine for the rest of us
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u/MasterBlueberry8382 Feb 19 '25
Hotshot crew*
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u/SeaworthinessDear431 Feb 19 '25
lol someone’s gotten a little too big for their greens. We’re in this together so start acting like it cause right now you’re acting like a 14 year old bragging about getting a big boy hotshot job while others trying to scrape by on what’s left.
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u/MasterBlueberry8382 Feb 19 '25
You’re the one smackin your lips
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u/SeaworthinessDear431 Feb 19 '25
My bad if I thought your original comment was obtuse as hell and responded accordingly. In times like this grunts like us need to have solidarity and you flexing on us stuck in limbo or worse just divides us helps no one.
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u/MasterBlueberry8382 Feb 19 '25
I hear you and I ain’t mad, this is gonna be a long year and hopefully all goes well
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u/SeaworthinessDear431 Feb 19 '25
Fr man, it’s my second year and I got blessed with a ihc offer as well. Stay safe out there brutha this is going to be a weird one 🤙
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u/YOLO_Bundy Feb 19 '25
Fire hiring is NOT frozen. Stop spreading this nonsense.
There is enough real shit going on that we do not need to spread falsehoods to embellish the narrative.
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u/VWvansFTW Mar 05 '25
This is all very confusing as I’ve just seen the SW region 3 is hiring temp positions?
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u/Alohasnackbar69420 Feb 19 '25 edited Feb 19 '25
As if off season suicide wasn’t a horrible topic we don’t address enough. Let’s see what happens when guys/gals who rely on that crew for far more than just a paycheck think/know they won’t have that come summer time.
Edit: it occurred to me now is a good time to maybe give that crewmate a call. I’ve been out 2 years and I still check up on the boys. We never know what somebody is going through and it’ll do you good too. Be good to each other 🤙