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u/17thEmptyVessel 1d ago
The IMT is complicit and that doesn't sit right with me at all.
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u/SometimestheresaDude 1d ago
This should be at the top but are you surprised?
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u/17thEmptyVessel 1d ago
CA IMT 7. I don't know enough about them to know whether or not I should be surprised.
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u/ZonaDesertRat 1d ago
It's a IMT made up of mostly Discretionary Qualified folks... Make of that what you will, but to call it a "B" team is being charitable. Very charitable.
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u/YucatanSucaman 1d ago edited 1d ago
The Bear Gulch IAPs show that a Staging Group was formed for the August 27 operational period. The Staging Group consisted of Group Supervisor Tommy Crakes and two contract crews: Arden 29 (Type 2 IA) and Table Rock (Type 2). Crakes is also listed as the Logistics Section Chief in the IAP. The Staging Group and the two crews do not appear in the August 28 IAP. A CBP press release confirms that Arden and Table Rock were the two crews involved. The press release also states that BLM requested assistance from Border Patrol.
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u/Main_Bother_1027 1d ago
So ultimately they were after 2 people, but took the time to profile everyone on the 2 crews, and then after all that the 2 crews were demobed? However, I read the IMT said this didn't affect fire operations at all. I dunno, I think losing 2 whole crews in one division would certainly affect operations. What a bunch of cucks.
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u/Orcacub 1d ago
Both from same division- That confirmed? Looks like a staging area was created or at least that the 2 crews were assigned to staging for the day based on IAP. If assigned to staging on a down sizing /shrinking fire ( going from CIMT to Type 3 team in 24-48 hours after the raid) it’s possible -maybe even likely that the impact to fire operations was negligible. Crews come and go from fires for a variety of reasons. In a slow year non-IHC crews are not hard to come by. The team may have had back fill crews already on scene - hard to know w/o being there. ICE/LE rigs may not have had to pass any security points if the staging area was not near the line. Hard to say w/o being there. Lots we don’t know w/o being there.
Security /LE assigned to the incident works for LOGS in the standard IMT org. Chart. This could be why the LOGS chief was the staging area mgr. - To maintain secrecy within the IMT and rest of assigned resources. Makes sense to Keep the operation and knowledge of it small as possible.
We do know: Companies are supposed to verify the work status of their employees prior to sending them to fires. It’s in the contract. Failure to do so is a contract violation that can result in loss of contract on the part of the company. It’s in the contract.
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u/Main_Bother_1027 23h ago
I thought I read it was within the same division on the IAP. In my experience, staging areas typically cover only one or two divisions. Yes, the fire might have been in the process of being downsized but at that particular moment in time they weren't expecting to lose 2 crews. How long had the crews been there?
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u/Valuable-Play-1794 17h ago
This originally started because the crews were foraging times. A total of about 5K above what they should have gotten. This is coming from someone in the team.
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u/TerminalSunrise Field Defecation Specialist 10h ago
How would a random BLM LEO be investigating that on site? That’s not what SEC1s (LEOs) or security personnel in general do on fires. They are purely there for physical security and to enforce area/road closures. Forging times (fraud) would generally be handed over to an 1811/Special Agent of some kind to investigate. This sounds more like a rogue SEC1 that got ahead of himself but that’s purely speculation on my part.
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u/zangief137 1d ago
Guess song of fire and ice has dual meanings now… I did not have that on my bingo card
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u/spacedoutmachinist 1d ago
Why they weren’t chased away with pulaskis and chainsaws?
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u/lustforrust 18h ago
Personally I'd go with passive aggressive use of a drip torch or just call for a tanker drop.
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u/ExplodinMarmot 1d ago
because guns and backup?
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u/spacedoutmachinist 1d ago
Fire up a chain saw and rev the fucker any time they talk
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u/ExplodinMarmot 1d ago
Just set a back burn as they drive up. Maintain 100% eye contact with them as you do it.
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u/CasualFridayBatman 1d ago
Because life isn't a movie? Who would back them up? No one.
In order for this to work, you need massive, sustained protests, strikes and demonstrations showing the general public is on your side. In addition to a general rolling strike with protections and financial aid for striking workers.
Anything less just involves these people getting targeted by a government agency with a larger budget than the US Marines.
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u/Careless_Speaker_276 1d ago
ICE is who needs backup out there.
I'll shake in my boots a little more when Hegseth shows up sober enough to ask Big Balls to ask ChatGPT for a plan.
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u/CasualFridayBatman 13h ago
ICE is who needs backup out there.
They didn't, though, and if they don't yet, unless things change, they won't.
You just saw them act with impunity.
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u/Reginald_Sockpuppet 1d ago
No crew boss should have ever let that happen. I'd have had the team out there in a fucking quick and shut those assholes down.
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u/ExpiredPilot 1d ago
At least now we’ll know who the firefighters are gonna back during the great divide
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u/ZonaDesertRat 1d ago
Good ol Pedo-in-Chief will do anything to get out from have to pay his workforce!
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u/Saguache Hotshot 19h ago
If those wildland folks were WA residents their information was illegally obtained by ICE.
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u/thesauceisoptional 1d ago
ICE should think TWICE about their ability to survive edged weapons when approaching chainsaws and axes. That is all.
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u/Main_Bother_1027 1d ago
Man I got a 7 day Reddit ban recently for saying something way less direct than this (but with this attitude) lol.
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u/Main_Bother_1027 1d ago
Those vehicles should have never made it past the checkpoints without O or E numbers on the windshields. Fuck ICE.
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u/MyDisturbingWorld 1h ago
As a Federal Wildland Firefighter with DOI I'm completely ok with this. I also think the Contractor who employed them should absolutely lose any current contracts and be banned from all future Gov contract opportunities if they knowingly hired these individuals not here legally. Especially if they were paying them less wages in order to maximize their profits..
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u/Dry_Sorbet_5489 1d ago
Contract crews not following contract rules. Not verifying citizenships for employment is against federal contract regulations.
I don't disagree with getting them off the line. However, I do disagree with the Team allowing them to go to the fire line. This could have been handled much better if the Team allowed ICE to approach the crews back at camp after shift.
This is part of the stunt to create fear and discord in our work. Don't allow the propaganda to drive a narrative that goes against our fundamental policies and laws.
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u/Lulu_lu_who 1d ago
Nahhh don’t do this. Don’t play into their efforts to keep class warfare contained within the working class.
There’s enough work for feds and contractors if this admin wasn’t playing politics with public lands.
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u/ZonaDesertRat 1d ago
Fuck you!
Fuck you again.
You don't know their immigration status, so you don't know if they have work permits or not. What we do know is that they were doing the job. We do know that BP showed up, and only questioned the folks who speak Spanish. We do know that out of the many who were told "papers please" all were "brown", covered in dirt having come off the line, and putting in a full day's work.
Fuck you again, you xenophobic prick! You come off as the worst kind of a Karen to ever want to put on yellows and bitch at folks in camp.
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u/ApprehensiveArcher62 1d ago
The hubris and perversion required to be born in the imperial core, benefit from labor and resource extraction from the global periphery, then get off to the public displays of violent spectacle those workers are subjected to when they come here for a better life or are brought here by no choice of their own, is astounding. Find God.
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u/Successful-Ad-1194 1d ago
The fact that ICE held up operations for these crews for 3 HOURS is crazy.
What's more crazy is that it took 3 hours because they were gathering identification from every person on that crew. Which means they weren't looking for someone specific and they were just gathering names and running them.