r/Wildfire • u/WoodSharpening • 1d ago
dollar for dollar
I'm sure this is a complicated calculation, but for the hell of it, what do you figure is most effective, dollar for dollar, water bombers or hand crews?
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u/MrKrabsNotEugene Soy Sauce - King of Beers 1d ago
1 rookie with unlimited bladder bags, and 1 more rookie for when the first one breaks.
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u/tzmjones 1d ago
Ask your fire planner. There are a number of factors that are assessed in the suppression response aspect of fire planning - response time, type of resource, production rates at specific response levels, availability of contingency resources, costs per production unit (like per unit of line built per hour), etc.
All that being said, is the retardant tanker or aerial resource being used effectively? By retardant use definitions that means retardant is reaching the ground in a rain-like form followed up by ground-based resources. Some of the videos I have been seeing are very low drops (quite spectacular), not necessarily followed up by folks on the ground. There are also drops on high-intensity fire so hot that it doesn't allow for retardant to do its thing, drops in high winds, and painting areas red as "the only option available" because (politically) you can't stand back and do nothing.
So, is an aerial suppression response more cost-effective than a ground-based response? The question is way more complicated than that.
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u/yepyepyep123456 21h ago
It’s a flawed question. Water drops knock the fire down and crews cut it out. They play two related but slightly different roles.
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u/Silent-Insurance-139 20h ago
Depends on the fuel type and terrain. A crew is not going to do much work in a fast moving, wind driven, grass fire. On the flip side a seat or lat will not be able to do much work in a steep terrain driven fire that has heavy canopy cover.
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u/redwall09 1d ago
Is this a serious question? Are you some hack looking for information about a subject you know nothing about?
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u/TerminalSunrise Field Defecation Specialist 1d ago
Senator Sheehy looking for his next move to destabilize and privatize wildfire.
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u/redwall09 18h ago
If so its an idiot. The USFS has maintained a standard of wildland fighting that has been maintained bybthe people who have inherited the tradition and respect of the service
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u/WoodSharpening 20h ago
yes and yes.
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u/redwall09 18h ago
Look yheres no trying to equate the two. Each has a specigic role in the fire suppression strategy. Handcrews an d dig line only when its safe to do so. Meaning the fire is not so raging that its yoo dangerous to be directly close to it constructing fireline.. aircraft alone cannot completely put out a fire. The helicopters can omly carry so muvhvand can never totally put a fire out. Every fire must have line around it and be out cold to an acceptable level that there is no chance of a reignite. That is where the handcrews and engines come in. Aircraft dropping retardant slows the fire for handcrews to be able to construct fireline. Unfortunately dozers cannot go everywhere. So there will always be a need for humans on foot constructing fireline.
I was fighting fire on 9/11 we lost our air support because of the no fly order after the towers got hit. I can tell you that we were getting our asses kicked because there was no air support. When we got a special permission and the helos dropped on the fire and us and we turned the corner on that thing right quik..1
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u/ResponsibleBank1387 23h ago
Depends. Paying for just one day of use? Or have them on retainer for seasons.
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u/MSeager Aus 1d ago
Dozer