Is this the Angreal Rand is rocking from TSR onward? It’s described as a little statue of a fat, bald man. Which I obviously just assumed to be a reference to the laughing Buddha of our worlds history.
But then I was at work today and remembered I have a little desk trinket I’ve had for years and I was like “damn this is probably pretty similar to what Rand has in his pocket rn” lol.
So that on top of the ancient Aes Sedai symbol clearly being the Yin and Yang symbol, begs the question- does our world exist in the past (and I guess future as well) of their current world?
I remember the history of the Jenn Aiel showing futuristic stuff like hover cars and shock batons but I had just assumed their world was separate from ours and they just also had these religious icons.
But thinking on it more- it would be pretty cool if this story was taking place in the future/past of our worlds history. If this is a RAFO then just ignore me, but if it’s just an Easter egg RJ left for us then I’m curious what you all think of it.
I just finished LoC, so no spoilers beyond that please. In the read-along I saw people theorising and wondering who the Daughter of the Nine Moons was. I thought it was supposed to be obvious to us as the readers but not Mat?
Literally, Tuon is mentioned by name both in the earlier books (TGH, I think Turak mentions her in his conversation with Padan Fain) and the glossaries. The Seanchan court is repeatedly named the Court of Nine Moons (I initially got it confused with Illian's Council of Nine and thought for a bit that Mat's wife would be Illianer). I don't even think this can be called foreshadowing, it's not subtle enough, the reader only needs to have a half-decent memory to recall this (I suppose it was different when people were reading the books as they came out, with years of gaps in between, but it should not be that way now).
Except for the digital edition, most WoT covers are pretty bad. Imagine my surprise when I found out that all +70 Japanese edition covers go hard. How did they do it?!
I felt tremendous burnout about mid-way through ToM. I've been reading this series for nearly a year and a half now and ToM was just kinda dragging in the middle with Perrin's endless brooding about being a lord and Elayne being there. I liked ToM, but I reached the end battered and exhausted. I guess other readers felt the same way because Sanderson decided to stuff the prologue with absolute heat.
Talmanes and Galad were characters that really managed to grow on me. Galad doesn't really get the spotlight much but the times when he does (becoming Captain Commander, fighting Demandred) are to be remembered. Talmanes is kind of the same, his only real accomplishment before this was convincing Roedran to help him. When Sanderson got his hands on him in TGS he was just sorta over the top. I don't know why this entire battle for Caemlyn was a prologue but damn. Him killing another fade was a little questionable, these guys shouldn't die easily. But it was awesome. I also like the little sections in the prologues in these last books. The one with the Borderlander farmers in TGS and the one with Bayrd turning on the Andoran lord are nice. This one isn't really at the start, but the end of the prologue in ToM was something I forgot to remark on during my last post. The Kandori tower guard and his son. It's crazy such a nice moving story was written in the span of a few pages.
Androl and Pevara's storyline got so good here. I think at the start I wasn't exactly super impressed with it because it was pulling me away from all the action, but I got to like it more and more because the Trolloc fighting was basically every page. A part of Pevara and Androl's character comes from Sanderson nerding out with the power system which he always does in Cosmere books, the double bond and Pevara making a gateway through the bond, but its refreshing to see something new done with the One Power after so long and seeing Androl actually utilize gateways which were always underused or not really understood by the characters. Also they're cute together I guess. Their chapters really carried the first sections of the book before the Merrilor meeting. I'm still slightly annoyed that Logain wasn't the one to save the Tower though. He's always been a really interesting character, but he got the time to shine here.
The Merrilor meeting was excellent. Seeing everyone get to together was satisfying, Rand flexing for no reason and Moiraine coming in. I wanted to slap Rand and Egwene so hard during the meeting though, Moiraine has the patience of a mountain. What came after the meeting was so good too (I ran out of synonyms for "good" a few posts ago). Lan riding what he thought was his final ride with the poem in his head about Malkier then hearing the hoofbeats get louder...
From this point on, the ramp up for the Last Battle starts. I don't understand why Mat is doing what he's doing. I thought he was kinda past running away from responsibility but he just runs to Tuon. His earlier chapters in this book have a glimpse of TGS Mat which sucks, but after he goes and actually becomes a General though, he gets really good. I do think Sanderson has him joking more often than he should in this one, ToM was the perfect balance. But with the circumstance in mind, I think its pretty Mat to be silly while he's in command. He's pretty much the only reason the Seanchan decided to help during the Last Battle and he thinks they're gunning for everyone's throats, and as the General, he's extremely nervous because its the BLOODY LAST BATTLE. I don't mind him acting like that in this book.
He gets a ton of great moments here. Charging with the Seanchan in Kandor, his dialogue about the gamble of the Last Battle, him just shocking the Seanchan Blood over and over again, imagining the field of the Last Battle. I don't know how I should feel about Fain though. The narrative totally forgot this guy. I believe in the end of the book, with Slayer vs Perrin and Rand vs Dark One, he's meant to be Mat's "nemesis", but it doesn't feel like that at all. The only bond they truly had was through the dagger and that wrapped up 11 books ago. In fact, the gholam felt more like a nemesis to Mat. Perhaps if Fain was in place of the gholam and killed Nalesean and Tylin then this would have been better. I think Fain's deal should have ended after WH because that's when Shadar Logoth's situation ended. Despite this though, Mat is my favorite character from the series.
Olver blowing the horn blew my fucking mind. It's technically been in front of me but it was never explained. Mat died in Caemlyn after Rahvin killed him, so the Horn got unbound, then Rand balefired time and he came back to life. So all this time, its been unbound. I wonder if this was a running theory back when TFoH came out though. Nothing makes me happier than a plot twist(?). It was foreshadowed too. “Let whosoever sounds me think not of glory, but only of salvation.”. Olver's and Faile's sections were so damn depressing though. Olver thinking that everyone is gonna leave him, including Faile, then Noal comes to save him 😭. I always knew Olver had a greater purpose since he was introduced in LoC and I though he met that purpose in KoD when Mat figured the whole Finn stuff through him, so this was extremely unexpected. I didn't have any suspicion that Aravine was a Darkfriend, but it didn't shock me as much.
Another twist is Demandred and the Sharans. I think this was foreshadowed in LoC, and I expected the Sharans to have relevance at some point in the series, but I was still shocked. The scene in my mind plays like the Battle of the Bastards from GoT. Just one shot following Egwene as everyone gets incinerated. It ties off Egwene's prophecy well when Egeanin saved her too. I wonder why Gawyn and Egwene had to be under a wagon for like 5 chapters though lol. Demandred is probably my third favorite Forsaken after Moridin and Lanfear. He actually felt like the biggest threat in the series, despite Graendal doing a ton of heavy lifting here too. Gawyn and Galad losing then finally Lan killing him was satisfying. I thought it would have been interesting to see Lanfear return to the light somehow though, her death felt a little underwhelming.
Many many deaths in this book. Siuan and Bryne honestly felt like an afterthought, but I guess you can't have a super emotional death for everyone. The one person who DID get an emotional death out of everyone, was Gawyn? Gawyn? Why? I was glued to the book when he died, out of joy. I guess he did serve a purpose though finally, he made Galad look cooler and motivated Egwene to do what she did. Egwene's death though... I wasn't that affected emotionally, but I was extremely impressed with how well it was executed. Maybe not my favorite character through the series, but since that one chapter in KoD she's been amazing. I loved her argument with Tuon in this book. Exclusive live reaction to her death from my notes:
(For reference, I take about 3000-5000 letters worth of notes for each book, I took 9234 characters for this one.)
The worst death of all, however, was Bela. The best horse, and probably the Creator.
The captain mutiny arc stuff with Graendal was cool, I guess. Probably the lowest point in this book, but still a fun part. It's just wedged in before the Last Battle. Funny how Elayne decided that Bashere is a Darkfriend immediately, but Lan and Egwene didn't jump straight to the conclusion. The one that REALLY matters, was Rodel Ituralde. His balls of steel made him nearly resist Compulsion. It's also really interesting to see how he handles his PTSD from Maradon. Regardless, this character is basically what Sanderson does best, and he did do him well. I'm glad to see that he got the crown of Arad Doman in the end.
I'm still not sure about Perrin. While the fights were Slayer were very engaging, I'm kinda just tired of it? In the last book and a half, they fought 3 times (i did notice the homage to "flicker" from TGH during the last fight). Perrin in this one does nothing beside fight Slayer and chat with Lanfear for a bit. His last bit in the epilogue was heartwarming though, when he found Faile. He's also completely sidelined during the Last Battle. I guess his arc was essentially done last book, and there was no wiggle room for him here. I can't truly say that I've been disappointed by Perrin's character, he has a lot of great moments (forging the hammer, cutting off that Aiel's hand, Malden in KoD, his whole Two Rivers arc), but in comparison with other characters? I don't think that highly of him.
Lan Mandragoran is a legend. It's very ironic that he and Rand, the ones that accepted that they were going to die, survived, while Egwene, who literally runs the company of immortal people and told Tuon that she plans to live a long time, was the one to die. Lan has the bulk of Trolloc fighting during this. While I think the Trolloc fighting got stale, I still got giddy when he killed the Fades, and I went crazy when he rode to kill Demandred. I don't really understand how he survived the stab though. It reads as though the Horn brought him back, but apparently he never really died physically, so I assumed Rand brought him back, but Rand said "He still stands" which doesn't really give me the impression that he brought him back effortlessly. Maybe he sheathed the sword by driving Demandred's attack into a non vital part of the body. Not sure about this here.
FINALLY more Rand. I still totally believe that Aviendha is the best one out of the 3, she got kinda fried in the end unfortunately. I liked her fights at Shayol Ghul too. I got so excited when Rand lectured Tuon about how he's above Hawkwing and her authority, then forcing nature around him to grow. Maybe it's just me but I don't understand the dick measuring contest between him and Mat. A part of me likes that its good natured banter between old friends, but Mat's been pointedly avoiding him because of his "madness". Mat overcomes this later, but I found the whole encounter cringey. The stuff at Shayol Ghul was amazing. I liked every little snippet I got during the Last Battle chapter, with weaving the pattern and such. I definitely knew that Rand would see the whole "strife is necessary for life" thing, I still loved how it was done. So many quotable sections during his PoVs:
"Rand stepped forward. In this place of nothing, the Pattern seemed to swirl around him like a tapestry. HERE IS YOUR FLAW, SHAITAN— LORD OF THE DARK, LORD OF ENVY! LORD OF NOTHING! HERE IS WHY YOU FAIL! IT WAS NOT ABOUT ME. IT’S NEVER BEEN ABOUT ME!"
"It was about a woman, torn and beaten down, cast from her throne and made a puppet—a woman who had crawled when she had to. That woman still fought."
"It was about a man that love repeatedly forsook, a man who found relevance in a world that others would have let pass them by. A man who remembered stories, and who took fool boys under his wing when the smarter move would have been to keep on walking. That man still fought."
"It was about a woman with a secret, a hope for the future. A woman who had hunted the truth before others could. A woman who had given her life, then had it returned. That woman still fought."
"It was about a man whose family was taken from him, but who stood tall in his sorrow and protected those he could."
"It was about a woman who refused to believe that she could not help, could not Heal those who had been harmed."
"It was about a hero who insisted with every breath that he was anything but a hero."
"It was about a woman who would not bend her back while she was beaten, and who shone with the Light for all who watched. Including Rand."
Another one:
Let go, Rand. Let us die for what we believe, and do not try to steal that from us.
You have embraced your death. Embrace mine.
Sealing the Bore, the trap with Moridin, "Three become one". All amazing scenes. I feel like there are still some unanswered questions here though. Who is the old Aiel woman? Nakomi? Who is she? Is she the Creator? How exactly did Alivia transfer his soul to Moridin's body? Why does Rand have TAR powers in real life?
This book really manages to bring everything together. It's like seeing a bunch of easter eggs. For example, Mat was teaching some commoners how to make spears for the palisade, one of them was called Renald. That's the guy from the TGS prologue!! Recognizing every Aes Sedai mentioned was so satisfying. Leane and Doesine were fighting some Sharans and I remembered who Doesine was, she did this and that etc. It's also pretty funny seeing how RJ built a foundation of Aes Sedai and seeing Brandon start killing them off one by one.
TSR = AMoL > TGS > KoD > LoC > ToM > TGH > TFoH > WH > ACoS > TDR > EotW > TPoD > CoT
This series is definitely flawed. There's purposely a section named "The Slog" by the fandom. This entire thing could have been a whole book shorter. There's a change of authors in the middle of it. Some characters are unbearable, yet are given spotlight *cough* Gawyn and Elayne *cough*. There are some questionable recurring themes. It's a rough journey, but the light at the end is absolutely worth it. I don't plan on reading New Spring any time soon, I'm probably taking a break from the English language after finishing this.
For example in [The Great Hunt] Thom initially refuses to leave with Rand so The Pattern fridges Dena.
Fridging is where a character is killed off or removed as a plot convenience to push a character to a certain action. Normally this is a meta non-diagetic action but in the context of Wheel of Time the pattern is a literal Force for the story to move in a certain direction and it's interesting to see where the pattern acts to force people to follow the pattern. Just wondering if you guys have any other instances where someone is obviously fridged by the pattern like [The Great Hunt]Dena was.
First off: All glory to the builders! All three of them.
Now even Sanderson has admitted he dropped the ball a bit on Mat. I don’t disagree but I think fans are too hard on a single scene. That being the scene in (I believe) in TGS where Mat makes elaborate backstories for various members of the band. To me this is more of a callback to Mat’s escape from Ebou Dar. He makes up elaborate backstories for himself and Egeanin, and Tuon and Selucia that we know of.
Feeding Teslyn the tongue dying pastries seems a much better example of Mat reverting to ‘early’ Mat under Sanderson.
Ground state right after the sealing: I figure all the surviving Companions are raving mad. LTT is raving mad as well. The Forsaken are all trapped. (Except for Ishammael and what was he up to right at that moment?) The security force guarding the male Aes Sedai are, presumably, all dead. Any military forces of the Shadow protecting Shayol Ghul are also presumed destroyed. (Were there any junior in status Forsaken assigned there, too? Presumably they got killed in the insane battle, and insane it must've been. DO's powers plus whatever the Shadow had there. vs. LTT, the Companions, and the soldiers throwing everything they had at them and not caring if they lived or died.)
How did the Light retrieve the Seals?
I've always wondered. My imagination hasn't come up with anything that feels right. Or feels interesting. Anybody have any ideas?
Edit:I've gotten good answers and see that although there's definitely some confusion going on in that part, my thought about the world spinning the wrong way was wildly incorrect. But I do stand by that it's the best theory I could have had with the information in the book up until that point.
I tried finding similar questions to this on here, but I couldn't find one, so sorry if it's a duplicate... but what way to the world spin? I know from some stuff I've seen that it's supposed to be a stand in for earth/earth in the future, we're age 1 if I understand correctly.
We have the sun rising in the east and setting in the west, to pu it simply, if it's morning in Spain, then it's still night in north America. (I use those two places specifically because I want an ocean.) In 'The Fires of Heaven', Rand and Avianda end up across the ocean west of falme/tanchico/all that part of the world. When they wait out the snow storm, it's morning (which surprises them) and when they go back, they find out there's still hours until morning.
Now, I'll admit, I may have some stuff wrong, but isn't the sun going the wrong way? I know there were other times that timezones were mentioned, like when they had their meetings in the dream world (no I'm not going to try to spell it) but, they were to vague on who needed to wait and it was less of an issue so I glossed over it.
Also, I'll point out that I'm just starting to read through, and thats the book I'm on, so if the answer is spoilery, please be delicate.
Finished the series for the first and what will definitely not be the only time. I'm mad at myself for taking so long to get around to this series. Any interesting things I should keep an eye out to spot in my reread?
Perrin is meeting Verin and Alanna and they are explaining that the reason they're in the Two Rivers is to find girls who can channel. When Verin mentions Sheriam believing they are culling the ability out of humanity, Alanna says 'what else can we do Verin? Let them go insane? Follow the White's mad plan?'
What is the White Ajah's plan? Is it mentioned anywhere else?
And what a journey it has been. I hope that all the loose ends are tied off or at least the most important ones.
Started in February 2024 and have been reading at every opportunity I got (mostly onlyvlate at night dur to kids etc), not even thinking about reading anything else so as not to be distracted from this amazing world.
One of my favorite tropes is Masked Historical References in fantasy/post-apoc stuff. What are ALL the references to real world history, mythology and the Age of Legends in WoT? Even the smallest, most obscure stuff I'd like.
Like is Rand King Arthur? Matt is Odin? Mosk and Merk? Are Sho-wings B-2 bombers? Why do the Seanchan wear Age of Legends helmets? Is Seanchan America and Randland is Europe?
Does anyone think Rand could have been defeated by any of the chosen in book 4 or 5 while wielding callandor (they don’t know the weakness). Also does anyone think cadsuane could have beaten Rand and the other ashaman with him including diashiva when they first met in book 7 .
Currently on my second re-read, and I was wondering about Nynaeve’s attitude/temper. Specifically, how ridiculous she comes across for a few books in the middle.
She’s painted as so competent and headstrong towards the start, and even stronger at the end. In the middle, though, for some reason, she becomes so petulant and hot-tempered at times that it nearly broke my immersion for the first read.
I was thinking about why Jordan would write her this way when it didn’t seem to make sense as a character progression - then it hit me that she’d spent time since the first book encouraging her own temper to work around her block. She was forcing herself so often to get angry at the smallest things so she could access saidar, that she ended up losing her self-possession and, temporarily, the respect of her peers like Egwene and Elayne.
Is this something that’s a common theory/understanding? It seems so obvious now that I’ve put it together! (Another win for Jordan)
I just finished a second read through and something i don’t remember catching the first time is Amaresu telling Mat that rand saved his life twice and that’s not counting the hanging at Rhuidean.
So out of the tons of perilous positions Mat and Rand found themselves in over the course of the story what were the two times? I’m blanking on it
So one of my favorite cocktails is called a dirty white mother, it's Brandy, coffee liqueur, and either cream or milk. The liquor store goofed up and sent me Moco rum cream tonight instead of the coffee liqueur. So now I don't have a name for my drink and since it has two milk ingredients, I'm thinking that I will take a page out of Matt's book, and the name it Mother's Milk In A Cup. What do you think
