r/amandaknox • u/SeaCardiologist6207 • 10d ago
Beyond Motive - How would Knox and Sollecito conspire with Guede to do this?
One thing I have never understood in reading this sub is beyond the motive explanation - what makes you so sure that Knox and Sollecito are guilty when they would 100% have to have done this with Rudy Guede. It's a mathematical impossibility that Rudy wasn't there, so your basic claim is then that they both conspired with some random person they served a drink once in a bar, and possibly met at a party, to murder and torture someone? Do you actually listen to what you are proposing logically? That a white American, Italian, and African would somehow become a criminal gang and plan out a crime?
Not only that, but you would assume that 3 people would be able to commit such a crime in a way that they could both cover all of each other's tracks (not have 1 of the 3 have overwhelming evidence present at the crime)? And that Rudy would be the one to do all the killing and somehow have agreed to this? And taken a dump in the toilet and left it there? No one would have told him "hey dude, not a good idea"?
There is no reasonable path to finding them guilty unless you believe they conspired with Rudy and that evidence is so incredibly thin (unless you are that commenter that somehow believes Rudy is innocent, I can't tell if its wife or mom).
What exactly is the theory on how all 3 of them did it that doesn't sound completely ridiculous?
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10d ago
Generally I agree, however there is at least one person who was active on this sub in the past who believed Guede’s account of being an innocent bystander (another option). Also one could argue that Knox and Sollecito stabbed Kercher and then left and Guede sexually assaulted her dying body. Also there is the possibility they were merely present at the time of the murder or even soon after, when she was dead or appeared dead, and covered this up for whatever reason all this time. But I think Occam’s Razor falls on Knox and Sollecito being uninvolved entirely and victims of bad police practice.
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u/tkondaks 9d ago
"...and Guede sexually assaulted her dying body..."
Or Guede is innocent and the two ghouls staged a sexual assault on her body after returning to the house to conduct their clean-up. After all, they staged a break-in in Filomena's room, so I wouldn't put it past them to do some untoward things to the victim's body to stage a sexual assault.
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u/jasutherland innocent 9d ago
You think they assaulted him using some part of Guede's body while leaving no trace of their own presence and Guede neither resisting at the time nor ever mentioning it to anyone later...? Is he your dealer and that's why you defend him so vehemently?
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u/bensonr2 10d ago
Don't waste your breath. You will never get any answer other then mixed dna, she did cartwheels and every other bit of nonsense.
There is already a thread from the past couple days postulating this and non of the guilters for the most part will give a beginning to end crime theory.
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u/SeaCardiologist6207 10d ago
And then the inevitable "you are blocked because you are challenging me". It just seems to be a pattern throughout the whole sub - i get that she did strange things and there is circumstantial evidence against her but some people can't get over the "weight of the evidence" factor. She lived in a house with this person - her DNA would be there. She met Guede and served him a drink - so?
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u/Angry_Sparrow 10d ago
It isn’t strange to do the splits (which she did). As someone that does splits, you need to stretch at least every 2-3 days. It feels really bad to not stretch - you can feel your body tighten up. Stretching is also a very mindful way to destress. It brings you into your body and out of your mind.
To me saying it’s strange she was stretching in the police station is like saying she went for a walk to clear her head and it was strange that she did so.
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u/SeaCardiologist6207 10d ago
Or Amanda going to buy underwear / lingerie - this is a sign of guilt ? Because it’s “sexy”?
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u/Angry_Sparrow 10d ago
Exactly. Trying to maintain a normal routine and a normal life is what anyone would do in the same situation.
She was alone in a foreign country with only her Italian lover to help her process the situation and to keep her from fully dissociating. I think without Raffaelle there she might have completely cracked.
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u/jasutherland innocent 9d ago
Never mind that Sollecito was obviously joking about the rather child-like red underwear with a cow on being "sexy" - something the cashier probably misunderstood since it was noted they spoke very little English.
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u/SunEmpressDivine 9d ago
I think this all the time.
Knox and Guede briefly met like two weeks before the murder. Did they, two strangers, sneak away from everyone else and somehow begin to burglarize/assault/kill Meredith? And then somehow roped Sollecito into it, a man who Knox met one week later and had only known for another week before Meredith was killed?
And it’s not like Guede and Knox were communicating during this time. The police had her phone so we’d know. Unless she was sneaking out of the house to meet him or something, which I highly doubt.
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u/jasutherland innocent 9d ago
Yes - she served him a drink in Lumumba's bar once (and she was only employed to work the busiest hours, so not a casual chatting opportunity either), and she and Meredith were both visiting the four downstairs one time Guede was there too.
Then Knox met Sollecito a week later, but nobody has ever come up with a time Sollecito and Guede met (until they saw each other in court the next year). Two people who had never met, teaming up with a third person one had known for a week and the other had spoken to twice? Absurd.
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u/Majestic-Praline-671 10d ago
I don’t know that they planned it. I don’t know anything except for the evidence.
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u/SeaCardiologist6207 10d ago
So did the Italian Supreme Court. They saw that same evidence. We all know what they think
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u/Majestic-Praline-671 10d ago
They threw out the evidence, for one. Then they agreed that Amanda had been at the cottage when the crime occurred and washed Meredith’s blood from her hands.
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10d ago
Yeah I was going to say, the Italian Supreme Court ultimately ruled Knox was present at the murder, even if one disagrees that must be acknowledged
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u/SeaCardiologist6207 10d ago
Not sure why people keep saying this (must be that Copus guy) but that’s not what they said. They simply didn’t throw out the initial courts finding in 2009 that she was there. Nor did they ever say that she washed blood from her hands. Again they just didn’t throw out that specific finding from Massei from 2009.
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u/Majestic-Praline-671 10d ago
So they agreed. They didn’t throw it out because they agreed.
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u/SeaCardiologist6207 10d ago
They didn’t say they agreed. They didn’t have to throw it out BECAUSE THEY LITERALLY SAID THEY WERE INNOCENT.
Would you call someone innocent who you believed was at the scene of a murder washing blood off their hands ?
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u/Majestic-Praline-671 9d ago
Amanda has never been declared innocent.
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u/AyJaySimon 9d ago
The Supreme Court declared that it was impossible for her and Sollecito to have committed the crime.
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u/itisnteasy2021 innocent 7d ago
My understanding was, RG conviction used AK’s confession to establish she was there at the time. And then that confession was thrown out on her appeal because it was not recorded and she had no lawyer. (A violation of her rights.) It is a contradiction. That report criticizes all the evidence and then says, but we have this other trial that is fact. It is so weird. That is the evidence they speak of it. That’s it.
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u/SeaCardiologist6207 10d ago
And Massei used Guede as a primary determinant for whether she was there based on his testimony in 2009 - which again is the trial that the Italian SC is specifically focused on in term of evidentiary processes for collection and prosecution
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u/itisnteasy2021 innocent 7d ago
I can't see it either. Rudy had a few stolen phones leading up to the murder (and after) in which he had communicated with friends with and none had any communication with AK nor RS. No evidence ever presented that they had any contact with him in the week prior.
The night of the murder, from cameras (corrected time) and phone evidence:
8:20PM RG is shown on the garage camera near the villa.
8:35PM AK texts PL (after reading his text that she doesn't have to work) the famous "see you later" text from RS's apartment.
8:45 RS's neighbour JP arrives to tell RS she does not need a ride anymore and confirms they are there. RS is talking to his father on the phone.
Up until that point, both AK and RS assume they have other plans. AK was supposed to work and RS was supposed to drive JP to the train station. Who conspires to commit a crime under these circumstances? Only now do they have the night off and the laptop shows they continue their movie at this point.
8:56PM MK calls her mom near her home, but the call is dropped.
9:01PM MK is seen on the garage camera near the villa.
9:10PM AK and RS finish their movie. They make dinner and eat while watching another show.
9:49PM RS's laptop shows the show ends.
9:58PM MK's 1st phone dials her answering service.
10:00PM MK's 2nd phone dials her first contract in her address book but it does not connect. Both calls connect through the cell tower near where the phone is eventually found, not the one near the villa.
At this point, MK has been killed and evidence disposed.
Given the timeline... I see no way they were involved. There is no evidence they were near the villa at this time. No video captures them walking by. No eye witnesses. Someone touched their laptop at 9:10PM and 9:49PM. I too have never seen any explanation that fits in with the timeline.
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u/Truthandtaxes 10d ago
As you highlight they knew each other - que the debates as to how well
Obviously Rudy is a character that would in any alternate theory escalate a burglary to murder and SA of a dying or dead body. Not sure why you'd think such a man would be worried about companions, actually sounds like a man that would jump at the offer.
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u/SeaCardiologist6207 10d ago
Exactly. Seems like a man who would take a poop in front of his new friends too.
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u/Truthandtaxes 10d ago
certainly one that would take a dump somewhere he is invited in, like he did downstairs.
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u/SeaCardiologist6207 10d ago
I can’t wait to hear your theory on how OJ pooped at Nicole’s condo and the police covered that up too.
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u/Truthandtaxes 10d ago
The same types of excuses used to explain away the Knox evidence are used in that case too. Its a police plant, the blood isn't conclusive, it could have been his son, driving around in car covered in blood doesn't mean he killed someone...
Or for a contemporary example the recent Karen Read case, another murder followed by cover up and calls home for parental support ultimately getting off by polluting the case in the public realm
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u/SeaCardiologist6207 10d ago
Does that make Monica Napoleoni the Mark Fuhrman or Ton Lange of the Knox trial?
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u/Truthandtaxes 10d ago
Mignini is the Fuhrman - somehow magically weaving a conspiracy of evidence.
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u/jasutherland innocent 9d ago
Well she did pick up a criminal conviction and prison sentence for her illegal antics in another case, so maybe...
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u/pistolpetemf09 innocent 10d ago
Not only did they become a raping murdering criminal gang over the span of a few weeks at best, they must have done it under cloak of darkness, because all the people who knew the three of them could only put them all in the same room at the same time twice, maybe.
Also it must have been Rudy's idea to stage the robbery the exact same way he previously broke into houses, and to leave his deuce in the toilet. What a wacky group of conspirators!