The ortolan diminishes the value of personal achievement outside of family life. I don't think anyone would have a problem with it if she said something like "I won too" and they were both happy. As it is, it puts down women who want to be career oriented instead of fitting traditional societal family roles.
If someone who trusted you asked what choices regarding childbearing and marriage would lead them to the greatest happiness, what would you tell them?
"You can find ultimate fulfillment and happiness no matter what you do"?
Would that be consistent with truth, data, centuries of human wisdom? Or just the wishful thinking of multi-generations of group-think-powered, ideology-blinded cowards?
Darling, this topic is so simple, and you have so much data, yet you fail to understand properly what the point of my critique is. This is the difference between knowledge and wisdom. Or maybe I just misunderstood you at this point.
What I'm saying is not that there is no happiness in giving birth and being a mother nor that anyone is trying to take the joy of motherhood away from anyone.
What I'm saying is, as you put it so nicely, you actually can find ultimate fulfillment and happiness no matter what you do. For some, it's giving birth and being a mother, for some it's being an actor or a scientist, whatever the lady won her prize for. For others it's traveling the world, or living in a shed in the woods. Your data may show that most people who are happy have found their fulfilment in having children, but that is no ground of saying you aren't worthy of happiness just because you didn't reproduce. This "purpose in life" for women to become a mother is just the wishful thinking of multi-generations of group-think-powered, ideology-blinded cowards. Anybody can do anything to be happy. It's not coherent of giving birth, and nobody, not even you, is entitled to define what people should do to find their fulfilment.
You should try basing your beliefs in reality instead of your wishful thinking.
And "darling," you've made a silly strawman here:
Your data may show that most people who are happy have found their fulfilment in having children, but that is no ground of saying you aren't worthy of happiness just because you didn't reproduce.
Everyone's worthy of happiness. It's not difficult to obtain. But it can't be found in every possible choice. That's a delusion, a strong one, a popular one. But utterly wrong nonetheless. All the cope in the world, and all the upvotes, won't change that.
nobody, not even you, is entitled to define what people should do to find their fulfilment.
Except I didn't define it. Data did. Human nature did. Reality did. Centuries of human experience did.
You're the one who thinks they're qualified to define it.
And it's not some scheme to "control women." It applies just as much to men as to women.
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u/marmottic Jul 13 '25
The ortolan diminishes the value of personal achievement outside of family life. I don't think anyone would have a problem with it if she said something like "I won too" and they were both happy. As it is, it puts down women who want to be career oriented instead of fitting traditional societal family roles.