Because the majority never get the attention since they are how a fanbase is expected to act. Deltarune and Undertale are the perfect example.
The majority of people who like Deltarune and Undertale just simply enjoy it and that's it. Meanwhile, the minority make the games their whole personality and bring them up in genuinely every conversation.
Not to be that friend that’s too woke, buuuttt… if someone obsesses over something, brings it up every conversation—which I have a feeling is exaggerated—and makes it “their whole personality”, you’re probably just speaking with an autistic person.
This is why I believe that a lot of fandom hate is rooted in ableism.
You probably weren’t intending to do harm, but let’s pay more attention to people doing actual harmful things in the name of their interests
What's the issue? No one gets hurt, and in fact it's less sexual than actual sex/porn bc there's generally no nudity involved, and even if there is, it isn't sexual
Right but that shouldn't equate to judging people who do like it, don't you think? Like for me personally, I'm very put off by vaginas, but I'm definitely not going to judge anyone who is attracted to them
Nah, that's a misconception, radical feminism just means a more systemic approach to viewing inequality (not saying it mainly lies in economical / political / etc. dimension, but that's it's rather a whole institution of patriarchy). I'm a radical feminist myself and definitely don't indiscriminately hate men, even though I do hate the system as it is
Genuinely 80% of the posts are just ''men are inherently evil, disgusting and sub-human, why can't they be like women'' and ''misandry is justified but also not real'' whilst spewing about how empathetic they all are 💀
Another hillarious detail you might like, I decided to sort by 'most contreversial'. And you know how they're constantly like "We're not TERFs!! We love trans women!". ALL the most downvoted posts were the trans-positive ones lmao.
These people are so deluded and hateful they manage to borderline so many fascist ideologies.
I don't agree with all the things typical feminism advocates for, but I'd support feminism a hundred times over whatever this shit is.
Oh good the worst parts of second wave feminism/political lesbianism made manifest. That's just radical bigotry. It's impressive how they manage to be misandrist but also this weird ass backward kind of misogynist at the same time
I think it's only partially a misconception. I would call myself a radical feminist, but I wouldn't call myself a radfem, cause terfs/gender essentialists have kinda overtaken that term sadly. so I think you're only partially right
I mean terfs have never liked the term terf. Don't they literally try to argue that terf is a slur? The only reason that label stuck is because people on the left kept using it to describe them because of how much it clearly bothered them. So doesn't that mean that they didn't actually try to claim radical feminism for themselves, and instead it got foisted onto them by other people?
Maybe I'm having a hard time understanding what ur saying, but no I don't think so.
Quite a few self proclaimed "radfems" are gender essentialst, and think men are inherently bad people (and they're in turn also quite transphobic). At least online, if I see "#radfem" in a profile or post, I'll be wary
I feel like in their heads that's slur reclamation to them because I distinctly remember them getting really irate if you called them a terf particularly in the late 2010s. And even if not, I don't think someone is a radical feminist just because they call themselves that. The concept of calling yourself feminist in any capacity while denigrating a specific category of women has never really made sense to me anyway. Like you, I'm also weary of people who loudly and proudly wear the "radical feminist" label, but I'm only cautious of them because I think they're usually bigots who're appropriating a label so their ideology is more palatable to cisgender women, not because I actually accept them labeling themselves radical feminists. They're basically the "National Socialists" of feminism to me. Might be the label they wear, but in practice that isn't what they are.
oh 100% with you then, they are definitely not feminists at all, it's just that they do call themselves like they are. I'm not wary of feminists/radfems, I'm just wary of people who call themselves that, if that makes sense
I think that’s just actual feminism discussed in feminist spaces like r/feminism. Radical feminism started that way but because of its proximity to terfs it ends up drawing in that crowd while others leave it behind.
That subreddit is an example of what happens when there’s unclear labeling, it has a good description and occasionally ok posts before it descends into weird beliefs. I believe it’s got a lot to do with the way it’s promoted — I’m pretty sure it gets recommended because the posts are not too far from the misogyny that’s all over the internet, just repackaged to make it seem like it’s actually empowering women.
The really big communities, women daily life places, might look at you weird if you say that women can be misogynists. And maybe it’s because that isn’t the space for those discussions. The feminism community is way more open to that. The radical feminism group appears open to that till they start saying the solution is female separatism or some bs.
You're technically correct, but a lot of them claim to be feminists, and when a vocal set of people self identify with a term, the set will be coupled with said term, that's how words change meaning
Sadly, we can't stop misandrists from calling themselves feminists (or radfem)
Of course, people who know the difference should do that (and they do, hence your comment, kudos btw), but we can't stop the whole phenomenon because there's people who have been introduced to the wrong definition of feminism before the historically correct one, and some of them just don't care about looking up the history of it when they see discussions online (or offline, even)
If we all stopped whatsoever, that would still happen at some point because those misandrists would still be loud enough to influence our vocabulary
It's inevitable, errors that propagate this fast change the language (fun fact: ghost used to be written without a "h" in it, the error propagated after people read it in the Bible, it was simply bad translation), at least we have "radfem" that separates a bit more the ideologies
They’ve mercifully died down, but remember that absolutely trash take a while ago that said, “it’s impossible for minority or oppressed groups to be [racist, sexist, bigoted, etc] because doing so requires systemic power”? Like, just the complete deflection of the idea that we owe one another a certain level of common decency— which very much includes calling out more privileged people when they aren’t showing it.
I was not a fan of that line of thinking. Like, yes, there’s no reasonable argument that bigotry from more oppressed groups is somehow more harmful than bigotry from more privileged groups, that would be an insane take. But also— you don’t have to be the most privileged group in order for your behavior to be bad and worth calling out and changing.
Yeah, whether it’s in the moment or in discuss, most of the time when I do see the discussion of those man-haters, it’s feminist themselves who tend to downplay them, ignore it, or focus on trying to justify that minority’s hateful beliefs of men if anything….which means it’s not a small “minority” if the rest of the majority also justify or agree with that sort of rhetoric, if not will at least downplay it but do not usually outright simply call it out like how they do misogony, even when it’s people within their own movement saying misandry or worse misandrist+racist things (which I have seen in my experince).
At the very best, that’s makes the majorty look somewhat more accepting of that type of hatred.
Honestly, it’s why I never understand people’s over defensiveness of the movement of any critsims or bashing.
It's not that we don't try to do something about it. It's just that when we try they also gang up on us, call us Pick me's and start harrassing us too and then they block everyone who tries to tell them a different perspective :/
I’ve just rarely ever seen nor interacted with feminist that DON’T have any generalizing sexist ideals of men, or beliefs that every man as a whole has power and is privileged even down to those who are less unfortunate than other men and women.
Most of the time I do see the discuss of those man-haters, it’s feminist themselves who tend to focus on trying to justify their actions if anything. There is also the historical elements of how they treated POC folk badly to now even trans people.
Honestly, it’s why I never understand people’s over defensiveness of the movement of any critsims or bashing.
I mean there's only so many man-hating feminists I can meet (this is irl mind you, this isn't even social media skewing perceptions) before I don't want to interact with ANY of them anymore 🥀💔
From my experience, not every feminist is a #killallmen misandrist. But every #killallmen misandrist is also a feminist
A few bad apples make the entire orchard shut down from expensive lawsuits or whatever the phrase says
Ok but when prominent 2nd wave feminists like Gearhart and Daly advocate for male genocide and several modern feminists ascribe to that belief system, it's not as simple as writing these folks off as "not real feminists"
They're a significant minority or sect of the ideological movement, at least
Gearhart literally wrote:
Every culture must begin to affirm a female future.
Species responsibility must be returned to women in every culture.
The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race.
~Sally Miller Gearhart, The Future - If There Is One - Is Female
Calls for male genocide are part of actual feminist history, not just an obscure internet echo chamber or something
Jesus Christ— I did not realize that those were views she’d seriously published. Looks like it’s some of her earlier stuff, but god damn. Makes the SCUM manifesto seem significantly less wild by comparison, now.
The issue with this is you can only use the ''vocal minority'' argument when it's a principle of said movement to call out behaviour that doesn't align with their beliefs.
However I rarely see women, nevermind feminists, call out this kind of behaviour.
I do however relatively often see men being critical of other guys who display mysoginy.
alive or dead? i’ve got a LOT of dead feminists off the top of my head, but the only alive ones i have right now are malala youzafsai, emma watson and alice walker. they don’t oppose radical people specifically, but they openly oppose radical ideas such as misandry
You gotta stop sucking peoples dick just because they are famous. Famous people don’t represent you, me, or feminists, or any group at large.
Now, if you want a list of influential feminist that were opposed to this, well here you go. You know google isn’t hard to use.
Mary Wollstonecraft, Susan B. Anthony, Alice Stone Blackwell, Elizabeth Cady Stanton, Emmeline Pankhurst, Sojourner Truth, Simone de Beauvoir, Eleanor Roosevelt, Marlene Dietrich, Betty Friedan
Perfect. Now the next question:what exactly have they done in the last 5 years that was directed against radical feminists - whose names I also have to know?
That's not what I meant, sorry for the misunderstanding. I meant, when you give the examples of the opposition to the radical feminists in the last 5 years, please also provide the names of specific radicals they were addressing.
I'm sure there will be more questions, the names are just the beginning.
Nope. People who understand feminism understand that the patriarchy hurts men and women alike. Not to the same degree, of course, but feminism seeks to dismantle the systems hurting our kids
I was responding to your comment. People who understand feminism are against the vocal minority, and we say it constantly. Maybe it’s just your exposure, or maybe it’s an issue of confirmation bias, but anytime a misandrist puts on the mask of feminism, people come out and speak against them
Maybe you are right, in that case there must be some evidence of feminists speaking against misandry. I have asked many redditors for this evidence. You can be the first to actually provide it, starting with the names of the feminists on both sides.
Can you link to something specific? Just hand waving generally at a cultural phenomenon won’t allow me to get you a list of names, at least not in a time frame I’m willing to dedicate to this endeavor
Ok, here is a specific example. Professor Elizabeth Sheehy wrote a book advocating that women not only have the right to murder their husbands without fear of prosecution if they make a claim of abuse, but that they have the moral responsibility to murder their husbands.
Which feminists told her that her book is pure misandry? (And how did she react - just to prove that she didn't miss the criticism)
The same can be said about incels yet nearly every feminists on reddit act as if they were representative of men as a whole, conclusion ? Any space made specifically for men or women online is doomed to spiral into sexism
Unfortunately, that breaks down about as well as when various church groups try to say that they’re the only real believers in god/christ. Which one gets to claim
The title? Protestants? Jewish people? Baptists? Catholics? Third Age Reform Baptists? Mormons?
Declaring that a group doesn’t belong to the term is well and good, but unfortunately there’s absolutely no means of enforcement that boots bad actors out or declares that they cannot and should not be allowed to co-opt the name. You can’t exactly go after someone for copyright infringement on the concept of feminism.
Best thing for it is to just accept the ideologies that matter— that there are indeed a great many issues that affect women disproportionately and worse than men, and that those issues deserve our effort to find solutions and to shift our collective thinking.
Yeah. “No true Scotsman” just deflects criticism of the movement or members of it, because even then, what is a real feminist? Susan B Anthony was consedered a real feminist, and she’s controversial for apparently being racist, which tracks with how the movement and similar movements like the women sufferage movement, overall (those “real”feminist) used to treat others such as POC, but historically they are still recognized as feminist. So are they just not feminist anymore now when it comes to criticism?
What a “real” and “fake” feminist is in terms of verbal matters, matters very little because people’s ideals of equality seem to be difference, and people’s actual actions can either match or be different than what they say. It’s why even other feminist may describe the movement differently if asked.
Which is why we all need to just fucking ignore those weirdos. They're not real people, they're fleshy vessels for moronic ideas. Nobody acknowledge they even exist.
I mean, those aren’t really feminists. They’re just misogysts with a fresh coat of paint. 🤷🏻♂️ Visceral hatred does not come from a place of stability or security. It comes from insecurity and inferiority.
And btw, “men suck” after a woman’s been through some shit don’t mean anything. No need to say “taha not all men durr da durr” when it’s just venting/expression.
If your bud goes through some rough shit with a woman and he says “fuck women, man” then you intrinsically know he’s just venting (unless he has a reputation for misogyny already…)
Same fucking shit with those posts.
My best feminist friend is a badass boss (literally) making over 6 figures, and she loves men. I respect her more than anyone on this stupid fuckin planet lmfao. Don’t let lifeless bitches of either sex on Twitter leave a bad taste in your mouth
It used to be that horrible people were typically dispersed in many groups, they had a higher potential to change, or at least do nothing substantial with their beliefs.
Nowadays, with the advent of the internet and social media, these few horrible people can find eachother, create echo chambers that hold their ideas and appear larger than they actually are, and actually convert people.
We need love, trust and cooperation between the sexes, not division. And in an age of diminishing birth rates and impending societal decline, there will be less and less patience for crap like this.
a rule of thumb of the internet is to not make decisions or shape your view about a group from posts with millions of views. in the internet the loudest voice is the one pushed forward, not the true
Isn't basically everyone a feminist? Like I imagine most people in western societies support equal gender rights? I imagine the word is being used to describe people who are campaigning for change or something but that word more accurately refers to anyone who isn't misogynist
Wish that were true. Unfortunately Misogyny, Homophobia, Transphobia, etc. are on the rise again. Patriarchal structures never really disappeared, they're just less visible today
I'm not saying the structures don't exist, I'm saying that if you asked the average Joe whether or not he believed women were equal to men he'd say yes
It’s a bit wishy-washy. A lot of guys like myself may think that yes, women, LGBTQ, and other groups all desvere equal rights, but don’t wanna be called or labeled a feminist due to bad experiences with the movement and its flaws itself.
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u/qualityvote2 26d ago edited 25d ago
The community has decided that this IS an antimeme!