How about personal commitments? If you decide to go on a trip with your friends and you’re responsible for booking the hotel, you should be able to be held accountable for that when the time comes. It’s just part of being mature
If any human person thinks they have nothing to be accountable for, they either exist on a mountain alone eating berries all day or lack any form of self reflection
To play devil's advocate, a person eating berries along on a mountain has to be accountable for the fact they've never helped anyone else or formed relationships with people they could be caring for.
Every action you do affects other people. From assumptions based on learned stereotypes over to learned action and words. The very fundamental of societies is built upon oppression and by participating in it, we all unavoidably participate in said oppression. Starting at consumptions supporting firms with oppressive culture. We are all guilty and that's okay. The only tool we have is self reflection
A popular talking point is that white cis-het men have historically been doing much better than any other group, which, by some people's views, makes it perfectly fine to hate on them. That's the point of the original meme, that "feminists hate men". Why I chose to add the accountability part is because men, although deserve the same respect and rights as everyone else, are factually more privileged than other groups, thus have to take on more responsibility for their actions if they want to be treated as actual equals. Is this more understandable?
I hold no such beliefs. Equity isn't the same as equality. White people are more privileged than others. Men are more privileged than others in our culture. Or do you not see it this way?
Stating the fact that men are more privileged than any other group isn't misandry...
Imagine you're in school. If you have more apples than all your classmates combined, and I give everyone exactly one apple, that's equality, but not fair, because you still have much more than others. If I look at who has more and who has less, and give an extra apple to those who have the least, but make sure to give at least one to everyone, THAT'S fair. Nobody's losing apples, everyone is better off than before, but the people at the bottom are getting extra help to lessen the gaps between those with more and those with less.
This is group logic of assuming every man has privilege and power, and have all done the same exact actions as each other, and if they don’t subscribe to your assumptions that all of them must take accountability for what YOU are accusing all men of, despite you knowing nothing of most men’s life, that they can’t be treated equally.
Whatever actions you accuse men as a whole of that they have to take responsibility for, doesn’t even apply to men as a whole, since it’s a generlization.
You remove the individuality of men, by claiming them all to be largely privileged, disregarding of other men’s life situations or issues being born less fortunate, regardless of their race (not being white in a western country), regardless of how poor they may or may not be, regardless of the fact that many men legit have no “privlage” beyond working a 9 to 5, etc.
Why do we need to make it about how they are all privlaged, in the topic of respecting men as human beings? Many believe that women have privlage, even if other women may not agree, but that doesn’t mean they don’t desvere equality or respect.
Like the other comment said, this was about respecting men as a human beings and their issues. Not about how men as a hive mind must take accountability according to you, not how they are all privlaged and must admit it if they want to be treated with baseline human respect.
You took it to that place yourself. It’s like a redpiller reacting to the message of “women are humans and deserve respect” by calling all all women privileged and that they don’t deserve equality or humans rights, less they agree with that Red Piller.
Hence why it’s strange you did not leave this topic at just respecting men as people and individuals, which now we know why.
Yes, my comment is generalizing, I didn't say that every single man has more power and privilege than every single person from other groups. Nor did I say that respect towards men depends on if they take "enough accountability" or not. I said what I said, I even tried to clarify it. You chose to misunderstand what I said and added some bullshit assumptions to be mad at a strawman.
Equity. That's what I'm talking about. Actual fairness. Look it up.
It was you made the assumption and generalization (therefore all) that men are specifically more privileged (not taking in any other factor other than the fact that they are male therefore must be privlaged), and made this is it a whole thing of accountability rather than respect or equality. You single out and generalize a certain sex solely for a lecture on a post about about male issues.
I suppose some may consider that do being different to the way it was described in your original comment. If it was something about how men (or people in general) need to be able to hold themselves accountable for bad actions, that would be fine, though your comment subtly suggests that the everyday men and people should hold themselves accountable.
It has a slight implication that they as individuals are the ones doing the actions, and so that's probably why the other person thought you were making an unneeded generalisation
why so cold lol
i do respect everyone at some level, it’s just the basic human decency. what i meant is everyone deserves a chance to gain actual respect. maybe it’s a different definition of respect, or i just wasn’t clear, sorry
Not everyone deserves to gain respect. Gaining respect means getting more than you gave them initially, and some people just straight up do not deserve that. I wouldn't give, for example, Trump any more respect than he has right now, because I believe he's stupid, evil, selfish, hateful, overall an extremely bad person. But everyone deserves at least a basic level of respect as a human being, so we don't treat anyone as less-than-human.
i feel like we just don’t understand each others opinions. what i’m saying is everyone deserves some basic respect (not being treated like an instant enemy and worse person) but not the full on “i respect that guy” style. that is something everyone has a chance to earn through their actions
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u/CitroHimselph 29d ago edited 26d ago
Everyone deserves some respect. Though they have to be held accountable for their actions as well.