True Feminism = equality for all. These feminists fight not only for the rights of women, but for the rights of men, LGBTQ+ people, people of colour, and basically everyone who is treated as inequal. They will call out injustice when it is seen, and they will help to prevent it from happening again.
Radical Feminism = superiority for biological females. These "feminists" base their beliefs on the idea that, since men have ruled the world for thousands of years, it's their "turn". What once started as a small group of supporters has become a misandrist cult. These are the feminists that say "kill all men", and throw other people under the bus because they think it'll help them get further.
As you can see, feminism and radical feminism are very different. When people complain about feminists, they are 99/100 times complaining about radical feminists. Given how loud a minority these radfems are, it's no wonder that some people think that's all feminism is. But life isn't a zero-sum game, it's possible for everyone to move up, we don't need to put men down to raise up women or vice versa.
Radical feminism does not mean "women are better than men" or "kill all men"
Radical feminism is about creating fundamental change to society so that men and women are equal while liberal feminism doesn't want equality, they just want less oppression against women rather than getting rid of it completely, liberal feminists don't care about the social aspect of how women are treated in society and just want women to have all the same legal rights.
Radical feminism isn't about transphobia, it isn't about racism, it isn't about hating men, it's not about any of those lies made to cause infighting. JK Rowling isn't a radical feminist (she isn't even a real feminist) people who hate men arn't radical feminist.
People who want complete destruction of the patriarchy are radical feminists.
Radical feminists quite literally see men as the issue. Some radfems want women in a completely separate society from men and call women with boyfriends or husbands traitors. Liberal feminism is equality for all, the ROOTS of all feminism was equality for women, because they were severely oppressed.
Legal changes are societal changes. Society has no influence on behavior outside of that.
Liberal feminism is the destruction of the patriarchy without replacing it with strict rules saying that "women aren't allowed to enjoy this or that because it used to be associated with the patriarchy!" The way so many radical feminists do. Replacing one form of oppression with another solves nothing. Liberal feminism is about thinking about what should come after the patriarchy as much as how to get rid of the patriarchy.
That's not what radical feminists are at all lol. I'm a radfem. No one believes that. We believe, like all feminists, that people should be treated equally and equitably based on their gender identify or biological parts. We just think things are worse and require more attention and at action, and often we philosophically attack the modern concepts of gender as a whole. Feminists are more than happy to bring up men's issues, the problem is that 1.) A lot of men don't care about these issues beyond using it as a "gotcha" and 2.) While men's issues are important we can't let them detract from issues facing AFAB and gender-non-conforming folk. Rape culture isn't gonna go away if we bring more equity to divorce courts.
Since I posted this, I've been doing some research on radical feminism because in all honesty I did not know exactly what it was, and since then I have mixed opinions. I agree that society is inherently patriarchal and a lot of the challenges that women face are due to systemic problems that need reworking; however I don't believe that discussing mens issues "detracts" from women's issues, and I think gender is flexible while gender roles are harmful. As I said above, life is not a zero-sum game, there should be no prioritization between people's issues.
I can admit that my view of radical feminism was skewed by TERFs and the likes of JKR, a self-proclaimed radical feminist, attacking whoever she doesn't personally think deserves rights while ignoring serious issues that face all women. I guess the loud minority is present in all aspects, that was my own ignorance and I'm sorry. I will continue reading up.
however I don't believe that discussing mens issues "detracts" from women's issues, and I think gender is flexible while gender roles are harmful.
Then you and I would agree on both of these things! I actually started a men's support group in my home city specifically to discuss men's issues, I'm very passionate about gender-related issues to the male experience. The problem is when someone tries to use this to detract from issues women face. Same with your thoughts on gender. I'd suggest checking out r/menslib if you wanna see some more male-focused feminism.
I can admit that my view of radical feminism was skewed by TERFs and the likes of JKR, a self-proclaimed radical feminist, attacking whoever she doesn't personally think deserves rights while ignoring serious issues that face all women.
And that I think is a real problem! TERF's aren't radical feminists, they just call themselves that. They're hyper-conservative, their reinforcement of the gender binary is a baby step towards saying a woman's role is in the home, a man should provide, and that we need more white, conservative babies. Its disgusting. Actual radfems believe in intersectionality, and strongly align with trans issues. "
Ultimately this is the point of the constant anti-feminist propaganda being churned out by the far right. Feminism is for equality, for solving problems facing all people, and for creating a more safe and equitable society for all. But by reinforcing the idea that feminists are man hating misandrists who are the same as misogynists but the other side of the coin they drive a wedge in.
They're being edgy and absurdist. They're saying something mean either out of anger or to draw attention. Violence against women is often downplayed to the point of being the butt of a joke. I'm a man in my mid 20s, but I remember when stuff like "no means yes, yes means anal" was completely acceptable parlance among men. The joke is rape, tortuously painful rape. But whereas in the mid 2010s when the conservative anti-feminist propoganda machine really got going they honed in on this and brought a ton of attention to the mean scary feminists who totally really wanna kill all men, violence against women being the butt of a joke is still a thing. Here's a Slate article on it.
“Misandry”—literally, the hatred of men—is an accusation that’s been flung at feminists since the dawn of the women’s movement: By empowering women, critics argue, feminists are really oppressing men. Now, feminists are ironically embracing the man-hating label: The ironic misandrist sips from a mug marked “MALE TEARS,” frosts her cakes with the phrase “KILL ALL MEN,” and affixes “MISANDRY” heart pins to her lapel. Ironic misandry is “a reductio ad absurdum,” explains Jess Zimmerman, an editor at Medium and the proud owner of a “MALE TEARS” mug. (“I drink them to increase my strength,” she notes.) “It’s inhabiting the most exaggerated, implausible distortion of your position, in order to show that it’s ridiculous.”
You can disagree with this, personally its not my style, but it'd be insane to suggest feminists are the only ones doing things like this. It is the case however that they're the only ones being told they're not allowed too.
But you assume that bringing up male issues somehow decanters other people’s issues. That’s the main problem people like me, have with feminism, accusing other people’s issues as decentering In order to only focus on issues that affect your own. Thats inherently unequal and STILL stick exactly to gender, because you can choose to care for about rape culture and diverse laws at the same time if you do believe in that equality and that male issues are important.
Focusing on male issues also doesn’t hinter or halt stoping rape culture either depending on which issues you care for (divorce isn’t our only problems), such as if you conseder how rape culture is part of both male and female issues, such as male victims not being taken seriously, or female perps not being registered because legally they can’t be held accountable, or male on male rape being seen as some sort of joke or a gotcha to blame the victim.
But you assume that bringing up male issues somehow decanters other people’s issues.
Except I don't. Men's issues are very important to me, especially as they relate to gender and feminism. The problem is many men don't care about these issues until someone brings up, say, domestic violence. Suddenly you have comments and retweets and articles out the ass noting that domestic violence against men is a thing too. They don't actually care though, they're just using those male victims as a wedge to drive people away from feminism and ultimately do nothing about the problem.
such as if you conseder how rape culture is part of both male and female issues, such as male victims not being taken seriously, or female perps not being registered because legally they can’t be held accountable, or male on male rape being seen as some sort of joke or a gotcha to blame the victim
I think those are all very real, very big issues that absolutely need to be addressed! Check out r/Menslib if you're interested in this stuff, male focused feminism is on the comeback and its based as hell. But if we wanna fix those issues we don't do it by divorcing our society from feminism, we do it by embracing it. Here's an enormous amount of links detailing things feminists and feminism are doing to help men specifically.
wow, where did you get that definition of radical feminism from? a 2015 feminist cringe compilation? you talk like someone who has never met a feminist irl
The only reason they're loud is that right wing figures and incel communities exclusively signal boost them. They're tools for oppression, not liberation
I 100% percent agree with the importance of intersectionality for good feminism. If it's not, you are first and foremost leaving out a section of women from your movement
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u/aheartasone 29d ago
True Feminism = equality for all. These feminists fight not only for the rights of women, but for the rights of men, LGBTQ+ people, people of colour, and basically everyone who is treated as inequal. They will call out injustice when it is seen, and they will help to prevent it from happening again.
Radical Feminism = superiority for biological females. These "feminists" base their beliefs on the idea that, since men have ruled the world for thousands of years, it's their "turn". What once started as a small group of supporters has become a misandrist cult. These are the feminists that say "kill all men", and throw other people under the bus because they think it'll help them get further.
As you can see, feminism and radical feminism are very different. When people complain about feminists, they are 99/100 times complaining about radical feminists. Given how loud a minority these radfems are, it's no wonder that some people think that's all feminism is. But life isn't a zero-sum game, it's possible for everyone to move up, we don't need to put men down to raise up women or vice versa.