It'd help if those same men (and I say this as a cis guy) would stop bringing up men's issues only and exclusively as a whataboutism in response to women's/trans rights/issues.
If you cared about these issues so much, you wouldn't have weaponized them to this extent.
Aren’t you literally doing that by taking something meant to be pointing out men’s issues and immediately dismissing it with whataboutism of your own?
Basically any form of talk about male issues is immediately drowned out by people screaming ‘incel’ ‘mra’ or some form of ‘we can’t talk about this because women have it worse’.
Almost every genuine attempt to talk about male issues gets shouted down by disingenuous people basically saying they shouldn’t be talked about with exactly the rhetoric you are using now.
Feminist issues and males issues aren’t mutually exclusive and shouldn’t be at odds with one another.
Nope. Not doing that. I've talked with plenty of people about male issues, and haven't been called an incel for it. It's just.. I tend not to do it when someone else in the conversation is having issues that are more immediate than mine, y'know?
You literally just said men ‘only and exclusively’ mention their issues as a whataboutism to dismiss women - and then did a 180 when confronted and admit what you just said was clearly untrue.
His comment is slightly badly worded, but I’m fairly sure he wasn’t saying “all men” like you’re implying, but more specifically “those men” as in those that only bring it up to dismiss conversations about the struggles women face. He definitely should’ve been more specific though.
In other words, I think you’re misinterpreting his argument.
Also, saying that he’s doing the same thing (dismissing discussions about some group’s struggles) even though he quite clearly is acknowledging them in both comments feels a bit unfair.
In his original comment, he said “it’d help” clearly implying he would like to discuss men’s struggles, but many of the times he’s seen it brought up, it’s not to actually discuss but only to dismiss someone else’s struggles.
Also, in a funny way, I could also argue that your comment is doing the same thing: dismissing the problem that’s brought up using whataboutism: “what about the people that only bring this up to dismiss discussions on men’s struggles?”
Yes, some people bring it up to dismiss discussions on men’s struggles, but also, yes some people bring up men’s struggles to dismiss women’s struggles.
Ironically, despite you mentioning how discussions on these issues aren’t mutually exclusive, you imply the issue he brought up inherently conflicts with the issue of men’s struggles despite his intentions, therefore implying that discussions of these 2 issues are somehow mutually exclusive, despite them being on topic.
Also, he didn’t “do a 180”, he just clarified his intentions weren’t to dismiss discussions on men’s struggles.
The point is to shine light on the fact that a decent amount of people only bring up men’s struggles to dismiss some other people’s struggles, the same way that the point of discussing any issue is to shine light on it. That means something right?
Also, I think reducing his argument to “people who do this do this“ makes no sense. How does that apply to what he said?
if his argument really was like what you said, it would be “people who talk about men’s struggles talk about men’s struggles”. In that case, I’d agree that it’s a meaningless, redundant statement. But his comment wasn’t like that, wasn’t it?
His comment was “many people who talk about men’s struggles do this to dismiss other people’s struggles”, which isn’t redundant and has meaning.
also, I don’t see how the placement of “only and exclusively” in his sentence matters, nor does it somehow make his statement redundant.
Also, your response isn’t related to a single thing in my own comment, so why are you responding to me? You’re comment is far more meaningless than his since it quite literally doesn’t convey any meaning (not an opinion, stance or rebuttal) in relation to what I said.
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u/TheReaperAbides 29d ago
It'd help if those same men (and I say this as a cis guy) would stop bringing up men's issues only and exclusively as a whataboutism in response to women's/trans rights/issues.
If you cared about these issues so much, you wouldn't have weaponized them to this extent.