r/baseball • u/EarthWarping Major League Baseball • 1d ago
[Nightengale] The Dodgers are toying with the idea of using Shohei Ohtani in relief during the postseson, but if they do, he would vacate his spot in the lineup when his turn came up to hit. If he’s a starter, he’s permitted to stay in the game as a DH after he’s done pitching.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2025/08/24/guardians-mlb-gambling-investigation-emmanuel-clase-luis-ortiz/85804280007/366
u/roadman67761 Cleveland Guardians 23h ago
Opener every game
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u/Not-a-bot-10 Philadelphia Phillies 1d ago
Imagine him coming in late, losing a lead, then not able to bad in extra innings
Total disaster
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u/SirAter San Francisco Giants 23h ago
That sounds very Dave Roberts like.
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u/avmp629 Canada 21h ago
"Who needs him anyway when we got Michael Conforto as our power lefty bat"
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u/Plenty_Firefighter40 Los Angeles Dodgers 16h ago
Find yourself some who's as ride-or-die for Conforto as Dave has been in August. Good grief.
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u/2thincoats New York Yankees 22h ago
I’m so morbidly curious what Boone would do with Ohtani if he was on the Yankees. It could be an absolute masterclass of idiotic managing.
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u/SportyMcSportSports 20h ago
Brings him in for a tie game, lets him get shelled for five runs because he wants his bat in the lineup for the comeback, then has somebody pinch hit for him because “he’s playing the percentages, it’s what smart managers do”
At least that’s the version I want to see.
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u/DeadSwaggerStorage Philadelphia Phillies • New York Mets 21h ago
Fuck yo rules, MLB!
“They’re right, and it’s just a piece of metal..”
-Robby M.
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u/heyitslj New York Yankees 23h ago
Feels like we’ll get a rules revision in the offseason to permit this too.
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u/skelextrac New York Yankees 23h ago edited 23h ago
What, there isn't enough time for Manfred to change the rules before the postseason?
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u/Heelincal Peter Seidler 20h ago
Changing the rules in the middle of a cycle is unprecented in America, right?
...right?
Sobs
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u/4r4r4real 23h ago
The "just let Ohtani do whatever the fuck he wants, literally everyone wants to watch it" rule
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u/insta-kip Texas Rangers 21h ago
I like all the other people arguing that all the teams could do this too. Yeah, but only the Dodgers have Ohtani.
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u/TheGuyThatThisIs New York Mets 21h ago
I feel like we should allow players to play how they want within reason. You want your pitcher to play DH when he's not pitching? I don't see why not, and I don't see why I'd care if he's a starter or a reliever. As long as he's only playing one position at a time and not breaking any other rules like pitching twice in one game.
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u/Griffeysgrotesquejaw Toronto Blue Jays 20h ago
There actually isn’t is a rule against pitching twice in a game, you’d just have to move the pitcher to another spot on the diamond when you relive him, and then move him back later in the game, all without the pitcher actually being substituted for and removed from the lineup. It used to happen occasionally in long extra inning games and the Rays used it as a strategy pre-three batter rule to get matchups late in games, but it’s a lot harder to do now with the rule changes.
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u/BASEBALLFURIES 20h ago
to be fair, the three batter minimum killed that, not anything ohtani did. i loved it too though, why doesn't like seeing a random journeyman lefty reliever strike out a batter, trot out to left field for another hitter and then come back in to pitch to the next guy?
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u/MrBlowinLoadz Houston Astros 23h ago
Idk where others stand on this issue but I hope they don't.
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u/lucashogberg6 Seattle Mariners 23h ago
I understand why it’s a thing because of the technicality of moving the dh player to the field and therefore losing the dh rather than just the concept of the pitcher being the guy that’s being hit for which just happens to be the same person; but I think it would be kinda fun to see ohtani deployed in a leverage spot. it really only affects one guy so I wouldn’t mind it honestly
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u/MrBlowinLoadz Houston Astros 23h ago
That's why I'm against it, because it's only for Shohei. It doesn't feel right to have multiple rule changes for one player in a sport that cares about tradition the way baseball does.
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u/Bunslow Chicago Cubs 18h ago
If you care about tradition, then delete the DH entirely.
Given that the DH is a relatively recent invention, and is now universal, I see absolutely no problem separating DH from pitchers entirely. Any team should be allowed to mix and match any DHs and pitchers as they please, there should be no risk of "losing the DH" in a world where it is universal.
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u/BASEBALLFURIES 22h ago
i still hate the idea that shohei is the starting pitcher for the game, hits as a pitcher for the time being and then is relieved from pitching and now hits as designated hitter. it ruins the whole you cant get your dh back then. and i just hate offense boxscores because now it says the pitcher just disappeared.
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u/Kyotossword Philadelphia Phillies 21h ago
Ohtani doesn’t hit as a pitcher. The lineup card for Ohtani starts has 10 spots and he’s listed as 2 entries. One as SP and one as DH. He’s not actually hitting as the pitcher albeit this rule was contrived for Ohtani but your criticism of it is not how it’s been applied.
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u/MrBlowinLoadz Houston Astros 22h ago
I don't like it either, but I would be fine with the rule if it also allowed other players who start at DH to move onto the field and vice versa. Bring back some of the managerial decisions that were lost after the universal DH.
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u/falloutranger San Francisco Giants 20h ago
More proof that the DH ruined baseball
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u/Snelly1998 Boston Red Sox 22h ago
Another rule, forcing the pitcher to choose their hand exists despite it being a disadvantage for the one guy who could switch pitch
They absolutely shouldn't do this, I don't even like the pitcher being able to remain as DH, as DH is instead of the pitcher, shouldn't be both
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u/LimpChemist7999 New York Yankees 23h ago
Yeah it really only affects one guy and thus creates an unfair advantage. Changing the rules to suit Ohtani and the Dodgers is BS
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u/r3vb0ss Boston Red Sox 23h ago
Ohtani existing is the unfair advantage, a rule that in essence only prevents him from doing the thing he’s marketed for is silly. In reality all it does is prevent him from throwing later innings. I literally have no issue changing the rules to watch the phenom do his thing it just lets him throw the 9th instead of the first. If ohtani were a regular thing and he was the only elite one sure, but that’s not the case.
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u/AnonymousAccountTurn Chicago Cubs 22h ago
The rule isn't preventing him from doing what he's marketed for, it is forcing them to make a choice about how to use him in a given game. That is part of baseball strategy, or should we just allow players to be subbed in and out of the game multiple times now?
The strategy part of the game is how you operate within the rules to give your team an edge in every situation. This rule change just gives the dodgers another edge period and would be straight up favoritism from the league
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u/LimpChemist7999 New York Yankees 22h ago
THANK YOU. That’s my whole point! If they’re gonna change for just him… it takes the strategy out of the game. You can’t use your closer in high leverage and then just swap him out and then back in when ya need him. It doesn’t work like that.
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u/AgnarCrackenhammer New York Mets 22h ago
Totally agree.
Which I why I think MLB should've made an exemption for Barry Bonds to continue to take steriods because he was already such an advantage and hitting moonshoots is what they were marketing him for
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u/LimpChemist7999 New York Yankees 22h ago
lol yeah! If it’s about marketing suuuure just bend the rules to let your guys do whatever makes ‘em special!
Judge and Stanton are the only guys who can hit on the Yankees, we should probably just let them bat back and forth the whole game. We can pinch run when they get on base right?? It’s the same fuckin thing as this ohtani bullshit.
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u/AdoringCHIN Los Angeles Angels 19h ago
Changing the rules to benefit only the Dodgers is complete bullshit and would show every other team that the league is playing favorites with them. Ohtani already had a rule changed that benefits solely him. They don't need another rules change to keep helping him out.
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u/lucashogberg6 Seattle Mariners 23h ago
he can still close, it’s throwing in the middle innings that would prevent him from hitting late in games
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u/MartianMule Atlanta Braves 21h ago
I definitely don't think they should. Individual players should adapt to the rules of the game, the rules of the game shouldn't be changed to accommodate a single player. That's ridiculous.
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u/Cultural-Diet6933 23h ago
We will
When Ohtani shows he's no longer a starting pitcher MLB will for sure change the rules so Ohtani can stay in the lineup when he's used as a relief pitcher or as a closer.
MLB will always do whatever it takes to please ohtani
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u/Spiritual-Chameleon San Diego Padres 23h ago edited 23h ago
Weird that it isn't allowed.
I'm ancient enough to remember in the 1979 WS Kent Tekulve getting pushed to an outfield position for one batter so they could bring in another RP to face a batter or two. I think someone hit a fly ball to him and he made the output (memory could be off though).
I know it's a little different with DH, but you can designate a pitcher to be DH, no?
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u/4r4r4real 23h ago
Cubs did that with Pedro Strop, Travis Wood, and Spencer Patton under Joe Maddon in 2016.
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u/GGGG98989898 22h ago
I remember a game in like 08-09 where Cubs Piniella did it with a reliever who proceeded to make a diving catch (which was actually on replay a trap). I could be misremembering the exact details
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u/4r4r4real 22h ago
Travis Wood made a leaping catch into the ivy in the Brian Matusz game (RIP).
Dude hit bombs too. 2016 NLDS, if you please. Or perhaps a grand slam in the crosstown cup?
God I love Travis Wood.
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u/TheVich San Francisco Giants 20h ago
Vince Velasquez had himself a couple of moments too!
Years ago, the Giants (due to injuries to both catchers during an extra-inning game) had to put Pedro Feliz in as an emergency catcher, Randy Winn at 3rd base, and Noah Lowry in right field. I don't think Lowry ended up getting anything to him, but I distinctly remember Feliz backhanding a couple of balls in the dirt and Kruk saying he blocked the pitches like an infielder.
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u/Snelly1998 Boston Red Sox 22h ago
Didn't Michael Lorenzen do this and hose out a runner at home
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u/nug694 Tampa Bay Rays 22h ago
Pretty sure he was a two way guy for a season or two, not just shifted out there
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u/Snelly1998 Boston Red Sox 22h ago
Didn't realize he played 89 outfield innings
https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/lorenmi01.shtml
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u/AnonymousAccountTurn Chicago Cubs 22h ago
The problem is Ohtani is already in the game as DH, would then enter the game as a pitcher, then leaving the game as a pitcher should also force him to leave the game as a batter.
But there is a clear strategic tradeoff at play there, you lose one of your corner OF and you have suboptimal defensive play, in order to have more favorable pitching matchups
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u/DigiQuip Cincinnati Reds 22h ago
At some point Ohtani will institute enough rule changes there will just be a defensive lineup and an offensive lineup.
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u/PM_ME_YOUR_PRIORS 19h ago
Honestly should be revised, an exception for the starting pitcher only is weird. It should simply be that a pitcher-DH can be substituted as if they were two different players, with the anti-shenanigans caveat that any player designated as a pitcher-DH is not allowed to play any other position.
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u/KuzcosPzn San Diego Padres 21h ago
Ohtani Rule 2: Electric Boogaloo. Coming to a ballpark near you this Fall!
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u/SexiestPanda Seattle Mariners 18h ago
I wouldn’t be mad at it tbh
Unless someone can convince me otherwise
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u/Moist_Bison9401 Toronto Blue Jays 16h ago
I was thinking the same thing. Rules will literally be changed to accommodate whatever works for Ohtani because it's Ohtani and it's the Dodgers.
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u/Dr_Wah Los Angeles Dodgers 23h ago
Maybe they should start toying with consistently winning some regular season games before worrying about the playoffs.
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u/scarface910 San Francisco Giants 17h ago
Spaced out for a moment and thought I was in my own subreddit.
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u/Electrical-South7561 1d ago
What's stopping him from playing the last inning or two in OF if they need to keep his bat around, and then pinch hitting for the pitcher spot once?
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u/immoralsupport_ Chicago Cubs 23h ago
I mean they didn’t do it in playoff games but the Cubs had relief pitchers play the outfield occasionally back when Joe Maddon was manager, including the World Series year. And these were straight pitchers who had no outfield experience. So it’s not like Shohei couldn’t do it
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u/MoreThanLuck Chicago Cubs 23h ago
Not sure I'd say this was one of Maddon's best ideas, tho
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u/immoralsupport_ Chicago Cubs 23h ago
Hey, it worked to perfection in that Sunday night game against the Mariners!
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u/Faive Toronto Blue Jays 1d ago
He hasn't played any OF since 2021. In the playoffs especially, teams will sub in defensive upgrades for the last couple innings. Experimenting with a player's position in pivitol games would be a bad idea. Better off losing his bat.
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u/SecondHandFood Philadelphia Phillies • Philadelphia Phillies 23h ago
Experimenting with a player's position in pivitol games would be a bad idea.
This thread is about the idea of using a starting pitcher as a relief pitcher after having them bat for like 7 innings and not being able to have a standard pre-entrance warm up.
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u/mrspoopy_butthole New York Yankees 22h ago
That’s not ideal but that’s really not even comparable to sending him out into the outfield, which he only has a handful of innings of experience.
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u/SecondHandFood Philadelphia Phillies • Philadelphia Phillies 21h ago
Ohtani is one of the world’s best baseball minds and athletes. He grew up playing OF (including at the major league level) so I’m sure he could give you some serviceable innings.
Conversely, literally no relief pitcher intended to be used in a high pressure situation has ever played the entire game and took the mound late without freely being able to loosen up in the bullpen by design.
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u/GodEmperorBrian New York Mets 21h ago
Could always put him at first base. It’s an easy position, tell ‘em Wash.
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u/mrspoopy_butthole New York Yankees 21h ago
By your own logic, you don’t think he could make it work, as one of the world’s best baseball athletes? Didn’t he literally do this on one of the biggest stages to close out the World Baseball Classic Championship?
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u/SecondHandFood Philadelphia Phillies • Philadelphia Phillies 21h ago
I’m not saying he couldn’t do this, just that the idea of Ohtani playing the outfield (something that Nick Castellanos and Juan Soto do routinely) is somehow more of a concern than him being a dependable relief option is absurd.
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u/mrspoopy_butthole New York Yankees 20h ago
Juan Soto misplayed several huge plays in the outfield that contributed to a World Series loss. I think you’re undervaluing good outfield defense
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u/akaghi New York Mets 23h ago
Probably don't want a guy who hasn't made a play in the outfield since 2014 and hasn't played a meaningful number of games there since 2013 to be out there in a playoff game, especially when you have utility guys like Hernandez, Betts, etc you can move around.
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u/thehildabeast Cleveland Guardians 23h ago
I mean Hernandez is a pretty terrible fielder at this point in his career it might not be too much a fall off but he would need time to get up to speed
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u/akaghi New York Mets 23h ago
Don't Kiké, Betts, and Taylor all also play RF? Seems like there are better options than having Ohtani pitch the 7th inning and having to learn a new position he's basically never played.
Like he has had 100 balls hit to him in his professional career in the outfield. Teoscar has more than twice as many this season alone.
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u/ayumi_doll Los Angeles Dodgers 22h ago
If you mean Chris Taylor, we don't have him anymore, but Kíke, Call, and Pages can all play RF. This team definitely has other OF options before going to Ohtani, who really shouldn't be playing the field anyway because it's an injury risk and he has 0 recent experience.
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u/thehildabeast Cleveland Guardians 23h ago
Yeah it would probably be easier to flip him and Freeman if he could pick up first, but this is probably something you need to do in spring not in September
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u/Electrical-South7561 23h ago
Whoops, sorry, East Coaster here who thought Ohtani used to be a regular OF. Very surprised looking at his BREF right now.
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u/the_next_core Los Angeles Angels 1d ago
Well we do have one past instance of what happens when you don't put your best defensive options on the field, one Nelly Cruz in RF.
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u/Tbplayer59 Los Angeles Angels 22h ago
Watching him get ready for his starts before a game, there's no way a relief role would be good for him. Besides the normal stretching and loosening, he throws long ball, then throws weighted balls against the padded fence, before he even steps into the bullpen. I say no way he can come in in relief, especially if he's in the batting order.
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u/ForsakenRacism New York Mets 20h ago
Bro does nothing he plays like 3 minutes a game currently. He can be in the tunnel doing whatever the other 2 hours
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u/Whitsoxrule Chicago White Sox • Los Angeles Dodgers 16h ago
He did just fine in the WBC although that was before the surgery so maybe his prep routine is different now
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u/EternalEagleEye 20h ago
Is there a reason why they couldn’t just use the normal DH rule that existed for years? Or does the Ohtani version just supersede that now entirely? Because the original version of the rule would allow him to just be the DH, and then when he enters the game at a defensive position, such as pitcher, it terminates the DH rule and the pitcher has to bat the rest of the game. So you know, him.
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u/Lost-Inevitable42 19h ago
If he comes in as a relief pitcher, he gets replaced when another pitcher takes over in relief. But, he’d want to keep batting.
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u/Griffeysgrotesquejaw Toronto Blue Jays 23h ago
Could he not start the game as DH, enter the game as a pitcher late, and then move to another spot on the diamond (1B? LF?) to keep him batting and play without the DH? If the idea is to use him as a high leverage reliever late in the game you could take the risk that the pitcher’s spot doesn’t come up again.
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u/GreenEggplant16 Brooklyn Dodgers 17h ago
You’d lose the DH entirely then, which is a major issue late in close games or extra innings. Likely something you’d try to avoid.
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u/Griffeysgrotesquejaw Toronto Blue Jays 16h ago
Yeah it’s not ideal, but teams will lose the DH for a late defensive substitution a handful of times per year. As long as you work it so the pitchers spot is not due up for 8 or 9 spots (like an old school double switch) you likely won’t have it come up again if you’re winning, and if the game does end up tied you can still pinch hit for that spot. You wouldn’t really be at risk of needing a reliever to take an at bat unless the game goes 15+ innings or something like that which is possible but unlikely.
That being said, if you’ve decided you want Ohtani to pitch an inning or two every other game, a better way to take advantage of the rules could be to have him be the opener and then carry on with your starters after that.
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u/PinstripeBunk 23h ago
Change the rule so Shohei and the Dodgers can do whatever they want. Or just don't enforce it against the Dodgers.
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u/Blochamolesauce Los Angeles Dodgers 23h ago
They could double switch him to a fielding position if need be, but starting or closer over reliever makes more sense.
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u/lKsmmansndjsj 23h ago
The ohtani bias on this sub is so weird. Rules are rules they already changed it once for him.
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u/anthonyde726 New York Mets 21h ago
Yall acting like the initial rule shouldn’t have been changed, this one makes sense to not change but the ohtani rule was perfectly valid
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u/AlsoCommiePuddin Cincinnati Reds 21h ago
He can't go from DH to Pitcher and still hit while he's on the mound? I can understand that he can't leave the mound and still hit, but the Dodgers can choose to just forfeit the DH, right?
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u/scottborasismyagent Los Angeles Dodgers • MLB Players Association 21h ago
if he went from DH to RP, then he would remain in the lineup as the P. however if they were to relieve him for another pitcher, then they lose his bat the rest of the game.
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u/Wigglebot23 Arizona Diamondbacks 20h ago
Yes they can, the issue is if, say, they use him as a closer and it goes deep into extra innings (no automatic runner in playoffs), then they'll have to take him out
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u/AlsoCommiePuddin Cincinnati Reds 20h ago
I suppose they could move him to a defensive position in a pinch, though?
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u/CharacterAbalone7031 Los Angeles Dodgers 19h ago
I love how this entire comment section is people making something up in their head then getting mad at it
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u/Shoddy_Bus4679 San Diego Padres 17h ago
Don’t worry, mlb will make new rules for him.
By the end of his career there will be special Shohei rules where is allowed to pinch hit, sit back down, and then come back to close a game.
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u/durian_in_my_asshole 11h ago
That would make more sense to me than the current set of rules. There are ZERO other pitchers still batting. Pitching and batting are entirely separate sports at this point. Why limit someone's batting availability by anything they do on the mound?
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u/freddy_guy 19h ago
Don't worry, I'm sure MLB will change the rules just to accomodate him once again.
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u/immoralsupport_ Chicago Cubs 23h ago
In college baseball, the rule allows the game’s DH to come in relief without forfeiting the DH, they just can’t have another position player come in to pitch after playing defense without losing the DH. It would make sense for MLB to use this version of the rule, which has existed long before Ohtani.
That said, a lot of college teams use two-way players who are both a hitter and closer (even Paul Skenes did this his first year at Air Force, and Jake Cronenworth did at Michigan) and most of these players play a position other than DH. The college teams found it worth it to still use that player as a closer and risk the small chance the game went to extras and they wouldn’t have a DH anymore. If you trust him enough to be your closer, you trust that you won’t have to worry about extras
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u/Pokemon_Trainer_May 22h ago
I bet they will change the rules next season to allow for him to pitch relief and bat all game
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u/Brilliant-Neck9731 21h ago
Don’t worry, the league will close this loophole (?) by next season and Shohei will be able to RP and stay in the lineup. Just an oversight this year.
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u/EscalatorsTempStairs Toronto Blue Jays 22h ago
Maybe they'll bend that rule for him as well (ftr I agree with the first rule bending)
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u/DiverNo1436 Houston Astros 1d ago
Kinda feels like the obvious solution is no change or closer in games with the lead so you don't risk losing him in OT
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u/MKAFCBGRR3U9B2E_R Chicago White Sox 22h ago
Could he start and close the same game? Do the rules allow that?
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u/LiveFromNewYork95 Boston Red Sox 21h ago
Sure as long as he also pitches the other 7 innings in between.
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u/mathbandit Montreal Expos 19h ago
In theory he could also move to a different position for those 7 innings.
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u/TheMoonIsFake32 Minnesota Twins • Minnesota Twins 19h ago
I think he could start, get subbed to a fielding position, and then put back on the mound. It wouldn’t ever happen but im pretty sure its possible
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u/BebophoneVirtuoso New York Mets 23h ago
I love Ohtani but after 2 TJ surgeries this just feels like hubris. I don’t think it’s a coincidence his best offensive season came last year when he didn’t have to think about pitching.
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u/DolphinRodeo St. Louis Cardinals • Seattle Mariners 22h ago
I don’t think it’s a coincidence his best offensive season came last year when he didn’t have to think about pitching.
He had a 181 wRC+ in 2023 when he was pitching and a 180 last year when he wasn’t. People on here like to act like pitching makes him worse at hitting, but that’s never been the case.
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u/Yanks1813 New York Yankees 20h ago
It doesn't make him worse at hitting but he obviously doesn't swipe 50 bags as a pitcher
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u/ForsakenRacism New York Mets 20h ago
He’s not pitching very well at all. Why don’t they just have him hit
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u/gnarlslindbergh 21h ago
How likely is the Commissioner’s office now thinking about changing the rules for Ohtani?
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u/UniqueEditor8372 Seattle Mariners 20h ago
I don't even believe they're actually considering this. They're not giving up his bat.
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u/JanSnolo 20h ago
I don’t understand why moving a player from DH to RP then back is any different from moving a player from SS to 3B then back.
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u/Boomhauer_007 Canada 20h ago
Dude has two bad starts, one of which in lolCoors, and all of a sudden they don’t want him starting anymore?
Where was this level of reactionary when they run Conforto out and his -0.5 WAR there 6 days a week lol? Or when Tanner Scott blew save after save after save after save?
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u/LordOfWor Los Angeles Angels 20h ago
Use him as a reliever. When his pitching is done, switch him to RF. Angels did it with him a few times after starts in 2021 before the Ohtani rule was created.
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u/OfAnthony New York Yankees 18h ago
How? If the DH vacates/comes into field doesn't that force the pitcher to hit. In that case it would be Ohtani coming in to pitch. I'm confused.
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u/lordexorr Boston Red Sox 16h ago
I think it’s because if you have a normal DH and then have a pitcher bat for that DH, you have now vacated the DH position and your current pitcher must bat (or you pinch hit). So Ohtani could bat as long as he’s pitching but once a new pitcher enters his spot is automatically given to the new pitcher.
I feel like this is just an oversight to the DH rule and they will probably change it as it doesn’t really make sense anymore considering every team has the DH now and it shouldn’t really matter that a guy pitches an inning or two. If you can put your outfielder in as pitcher and then move him back to the outfield you should be able to do the same for any position, including DH.
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u/CapBrink 18h ago
I don’t think that’s too crazy of an idea if they play their cards right.
They obviously wouldn’t bother putting him in the 3rd inning or something after the starter gets rocked, but let’s say he bats in the top of the 8th, pitches the bottom of the 8th, most likely doesn’t bat in the 9th anyways. He finishes the 9th on the mound or turns it over to the closer.
I think down the road he’ll be the Dodgers closer anyways, this could be the beginning towards that he’s real successful in short postseason bursts
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u/benewavvsupreme New York Mets 1d ago
Closer or opener feel like better options than losing his bat