Kid says some political shit without knowning anyhing, slightly older kid says "Buddy get off the iPad you 8 years old"

[u/Internal_Review7040]

[u/p1ayernotfound]

communism is generally on par with fascism.

[u/commanderAnakin → u/p1ayernotfound]

"UH! NO IT ISN'T! REAL COMMUNISM HASN'T BEEN TRIED!"

[u/InevitableStuff7572 → u/commanderAnakin]

Name one time it was

[u/Sad_Body7575 → u/InevitableStuff7572]

A better term to associate Communism with is Totalitarianism.

[u/InevitableStuff7572 → u/Sad_Body7575]

100% not. Do you know what communism is? It’s a stateless, classless, moneyless society.

[u/Sad_Body7575 → u/InevitableStuff7572]

That's humanly impossible. How about we look at real examples? The soviet union, an authoritarian dictatorship that used fear to make the population submit and killed many innocent people. China, another dictatorship that leaves 312 million people without internet access and a great firewall to prevent outside information from entering, along with a super-application on phones to make it easier to monitor their population. Oh, and also commits genocide against the Uyghurs.

Edit: Yes, I know what communism is. The idea of a stateless, classless, and moneyless society is quite frankly stupid and unachievable on any level.

[u/InevitableStuff7572 → u/Sad_Body7575]

Criticizing the USSR and China when they obviously aren’t communist (and you agreed with that) as a critique of communism is really funny.

Also, a stateless, classless, moneyless society is not only possible, but needed.

[u/Sad_Body7575 → u/InevitableStuff7572]

So, give me a SINGULAR example where communism has actually worked? Because honestly, I've never seen it. Vietnam is barely socialist, and has open markets.

And how the fuck do you claim the USSR is not communist? I understand China somewhat (they're socialist) however it was quite literally rooted in Marxism-Leninism and ruled by the CPSU.

[u/InevitableStuff7572 → u/Sad_Body7575]

The hard part is that the places that have gotten the closest (such as the parts of Spain operating under anarchism during the Spanish Civil War) were always fighting. The societies themselves worked fine, but Franco, back by other world leaders, crushed the anarchists after 3 years.

We saw similar things happen to anarchist Ukraine after WW2, which was crushed by the west and Stalin. The places that have reached communism are usually under anarchism, which is not liked by the west or MLs.

Also, how is the USSR communist? It is neither stateless or classless, and just being run by a communist party doesn’t make you communist, especially if you take no steps to transition from socialism to communism.

China isn’t even socialist anymore, it’s state capitalist, especially after reforms. It’s the same as people calling Cuba socialist, despite workers owning the means of production being illegal.

Being run by Marxist-Leninism doesn’t inherently make you communist. By that logic, every socialist country is communist because they are all under Marxist-Leninism.

And why hasn’t socialism or communism worked yet. To put it simply, it’s because Russia’s revolution failed.

The goal was to bring about a democratic socialist state, but infighting by the revolutionaries, and foreign countries trying to weaken the revolution, led to an authoritarian government taking form.

While this was bad, it did bring about mass industrialization, which poorer countries did like. It also caused richer countries profiting off poorer ones to have a much harder time exploiting the poorer countries.

So countries such as China, Cuba, Korea, and other places had a revolution to instate Marxist-Leninism.

But authoritarian countries are always shitshows politically, and these countries had less trading partners due to western countries not trading with them. Marx said communism could only work in rich countries because they already had the resources available (at least until the rich countries developed communism).

So basically, socialist countries fell to authoritarianism because that’s what the countries were aiming for.

[u/Sad_Body7575 → u/InevitableStuff7572]

You're absolutely correct, actually. However, doesn't this just show how in nearly every example, countries end up taking a turn towards capitalism or are unable to achieve actual communism? Because to my knowledge a violent revolution must occur for the proletariats to overthrow the bourgeoisie, meaning that most nations that make a transition into communism (especially out of capitalism) are just going to find the same fate? It's honestly a question, because your argument is quite well put.

[u/InevitableStuff7572 → u/Sad_Body7575]

Well, as I said, it’s more that one revolution failed, the Russian Revolution, but the other countries wanted to instate that same type of government despite the authoritarian nature of the USSR.

It’s not that every revolution ends up like that. But as they tried to implement an authoritarian government, that was the result.

Obviously, we don’t really have the historical measures to see what could happen with a democratic socialist/anarchist revolution. The Spain example I listed earlier of an anarchist type society was just a small part of a civil war. And most socialist revolutions we’ve seen have been Marxist-Leninist, or the authoritarian type basically.

If a revolution was headed by, let’s say democratic socialists, then we likely wouldn’t see the authoritarian problems shown by the past socialist states (though I still have gripes with it as an anarchist).

Realized I should mention as well the Marxist-Leninism’s whole point is that a vanguard party guides us through the revolution, aka a ruling power for the state. That’s how these places become authoritarian. Under other types of socialism/communism, they would not use a vanguard party.

So to answer your question, a revolution does not always result in authoritarianism, but was just the goal of those past revolutions.

[u/Sad_Body7575 → u/InevitableStuff7572]

I see. That makes sense, actually. Well spoken.