Have you ever avoided talking about a positive experience because it's not "traditionally" manly?

[u/Froteet]

So it's poorly worded but I couldn't think of a different way to ask this question. For more of an explanation of what I mean I'll give an example from my life that's super recent.

I just came back from a weekend vacation for a niche music festival in a city and after the last night of it, me and 3 women all went out and continued the night. None of us were friends before that event but we got together and went to a bar and got some food. As stuff was starting to close we all decided we didn't want the night to end so one of my new friends suggested going back to my hotel room to hang out since I was the only person from out of town and therefore had no roommates that we'd be upsetting. We all agreed and went back and just sat around telling stories and laughing w/ eachother until the sun was coming up.

It was a great experience that really filled a hole for that kind of social bonding I'd been lacking lately and it felt great to have such a wholesome experience with strangers but heres the weird part.

I would hesitate to tell that story to my male peers for fear of judgement or being considered a loser for not making sexual advances towards these women. Its a very weird feeling that I don't want to tell this really positive happy story to people in my life because I feel like I'd draw ire or be mocked for not sleeping with them.

Is this normal bros? Have you ever had that hesitation when it comes to talking with other guys irl?

[u/aniftyquote]

There are some things I read as a queer person that make my heart break for my cishet (or cishet-like friend group) bros. You deserve this joy, and I'm so sorry that it's not easier to share. The people you love should be happy for you when you have a good experience, and honestly!! Making new friends is so much harder than hooking up sometimes. Not saying this to diminish your concern but because I want good things for you - I hope, if you do tell them, that your friends surprise you in a positive way.

[u/Lusane]

I'm a straight guy, and I wonder how much of it is in your head and how much of it is people your surround yourself with. I stopped having male friends that would virgin-shame in college; the guys in my life don't see women as conquests. Sometimes we'll still rib each other with that kind of humor but it's in complete irony, more in the sense of making fun of people who genuinely have those kinds of beliefs.

If you're unhappy enough with the current dynamic with your friends, you can just be honest and see what their responses are. If they can't genuinely empathize with you, are these even friends worth keeping? My experience of that kind of friendship is it's fun when hanging out, but empty when you're not.

Also to answer your title: ya, I was really into cooking and the food network in middle school. I jokingly dropped that I was watching some cooking show and a mutual friend chimed in saying they watched it too. We then got really close cuz we would watch and chat about Iron Chef and Good Eats.

[u/DueAnalysis2 → u/Lusane]

Just to add to the part about asking them explicitly - I think it can sometimes even be the case that everyone behaves in a certain way because they think everyone ELSE wants them to behave in the same way. Being the first one to raise a question could even change the norms for a group! (or at least, part of the group)

[u/Fit-Tax7016]

This post kinda restored my faith in humanity.

Such a wholesome interaction. It's a shame you feel that way OP but I can understand why. We need more of this, bros.

[u/RTCielo]

Qualifications: cis dude whose guy friends are majority cis dudes in manly man professions like military, emergency services, or socially "high value" service industry jobs like bartenders.

My guys are stoked for each other when someone has a good experience. "I had a good time and made friends at a festival" shouldn't be a controversial thing in any friend group.

Arms and shoulders look bigger when they're engaged, so always be lifting each other up.

And I need to support and be engaged in their hobbies so when we're out at the bar I can gas em up to a baddie by speaking intelligently about their interests. Imagine if said baddie is like "Oh, he's into art? What kind?" What kind of clown show shit am I doing if I can't even describe the basics of his medium or stylistic influences.

"Uh I dunno, he draws like trees and buildings and stuff." -the response of a cockblocker who doesn't even care enough to know his bros.

"Oh he mainly does these mixed urban landscape portraits that combine neo-impressionism with street art influences into these beautiful paintings that contrasts our modern environment with the beauty of nature in interesting ways. He's got this piece at (local art gallery) that shows a tree growing through the floor of a parking garage. It's honestly mind blowing how he manages to depict lighting in such a beautiful way. And the art gallery has a cute little cafe next door. You should ask him about it!" -the bare fucking minimum effort.

I'm getting worked up just typing about it. Like these are our friends, our found family. Imagine being anything other than joyfully excited at the things that make them happy?

Also, as an aside: men and women can both tell when someone is desperate, and there's nothing that oozes desperate more than a man who can't comprehend being around women and not trying to fuck them.

God this sub makes me mad sometimes when I realize how deprived so many cis dudes are in their friendships. I'm gonna text the group chat at 3 a.m. and tell them I love them and nobody is gonna call me panicking thinking I'm on a bridge or something, because expressing our feelings is a normal fuckin thing in this squad.

Some of y'all are surrounded by toxic weirdos and it drives me nuts.

[u/iglidante → u/RTCielo]

Man, your energy is fucking awesome. Just saying. That is exactly the kind of positivity that gives me energy for the future.

Also, love that quote about arms looking biggest when in use.

[u/SmileyXYtv → u/RTCielo]

I wanna quickly note that you're amazing. Like you're exactly the type of bro every man on this planet wishes he had. Beautiful.

[u/Hello-America]

Not a bro but I'm glad you had a nice time!

[u/danstu → u/Hello-America]

Odd, quick glance at your profile suggests that you actually are a bro. You don't need to be a man to be a bro.

[u/Hello-America → u/danstu]

Haha thanks. I come here to get a window into the world of the bros in my life (and a dose of positivity in a negative world). Sometimes I think as a ladybro without the constraints of masculinity, I have helpful advice for social situations but some of them, like this post, maybe are better left to the bro bros who relate to the experience OP has. 🙂

[u/Initial_Zebra100]

Yes. I'm still struggling with this. The societal expectations versus my actual thoughts and feelings. What to share, how to act in certain situations, and what to talk about with my friends, especially the men.

Feels a bit like a cage of what's expected versus what I want. To be mature, to be masculine, to not feel ashamed of myself.

People might say I'm doing this to myself, internalising others' opinions and beliefs, which is true, but I find it hard to authenticly be myself.

I kinda hate that I'm doing this throughout my life, but I relate heavily to this post. Sorry for projecting lol

[u/Lusane → u/Initial_Zebra100]

That cage is toxic masculinity; it's the gatekeeping of what makes someone a man. People don't realize that the toxicity of toxic masculinity isn't just outward facing, it's just as harmful inwards. I firmly believe the rising suicide rates in young men are directly downstream of toxic masculinity. Men are afraid to reach out to others, be vulnerable, and seek help because they need to "be a man."

[u/SmileyXYtv → u/Lusane]

As a guy who was, due to skill issue, almost part of that statistic you mentioned, it's a lot more complex than that. The primary reason imho is a lack of spaces like this subreddit. Like where do you expect guys who don't wanna "be a man" and do want to reach out to go? On the one side they'll get told to man up, that's obviously where they want to get away from and on the other side they get told that they aren't allowed to have issues because they're a privileged man and that they should end it anyways because they're a danger to everyone around them for just existing. And while I do know that it's just the opinion of a small, very loud group, it's sadly an opinion that is left standing there without correction way too often and people in need to help always hear the voice of those who scream the loudest first.

This complete lack of perspectives is the reason for the high suicide rate because people who still have hope are unlikely to give up on everything.

[u/sarimanok_ → u/Initial_Zebra100]

If you're looking to try to peek outside the cage, what I've found very freeing is just trying One Thing. It's way too overwhelming to think about changing your whole way of operating in the world at once, but you can do one thing. Personally, many years ago I started with working on saying I don't know what someone means, or what they're referencing, or am not knowledgeable in the topic. I used to always feel like I had to pretend to be comfortable talking about anything, and moreso that it was a show of weakness to admit ignorance. But it's turned into both a freeing and enriching part of my life. I learn more from people, and it's like...microdosing vulnerability 😂 Anyway, if there's one small thing you can explore to nose your way out of the cage, it could really open up your world. Hang in there, bro.

[u/Initial_Zebra100 → u/sarimanok_]

I appreciate the advice, definitely something to consider.

Thanks.

[u/SNAiLtrademark]

Old bro here. When I was younger I did, and I regret not being my honest self. Nowadays, I wear my real personality on the outside, and it's made life much better. Life is too short and too valuable to hide or diminish yourself. Use this story at a litmus test for friendship; if they mock you, they aren't worth keeping. I'm glad you had fun, and made friends!

[u/Carloverguy20]

I never gave an eff tbh about all of that.

I would talk about these things to people I trust and won't judge me.

Some people were judgmental though, but I cut those people out of my life.

Im glad that you had a great time

[u/SmallLumpOGreenPutty]

That sounds like a really lovely time 😊 i really value friendships with people of different genders which don't have the unspoken "will they won't they" hanging over them.

[u/civ6civ6]

I think that's a great story. I often feel like society has this idea, that a man can not control his sexual urges; and that he should always be on the hunt for sexual opportunities like a predator hunting for prey. The truth is, you had a normal experience with some new friends; and it would be abnormal to expect that there must be some type of sexual activity involved in the scenario. Mature adults can and do have get togethers that are non sexual. In fact, that is the standard, not the exception. You have respect for women and acted in a chivalrous manner because we don't live our life in a porn.

[u/I_TRY_TO_BE_POSITIVE]

I would hesitate to tell that story to my male peers for fear of judgement or being considered a loser for not making sexual advances towards these women. Its a very weird feeling that I don't want to tell this really positive happy story to people in my life because I feel like I'd draw ire or be mocked for not sleeping with them.

Honestly man, I think this is the toxic side of masculinity that gets a lot of mention sometimes. It's extremely immature and bad for everybody involved. Not that you are, I mean the social pressure you're feeling. It absolutely exists, too.

[u/Grandemestizo]

Anyone who thinks you’re not manly enough for befriending three women and not immediately trying to sleep with them is a troglodyte.

[u/Arnoski]

I love that interaction, and I’m so glad that you had so much fun! It’s incredible how much society likes to stigmatize the idea of doing things that are entertaining if they’re not associated with some kind of gender role, so breaking apart that structure is really satisfying.

I’m so glad you had that experience!!!

[u/GreatBigBagOfNope]

It is routine in that it's a thing which, as a matter of factuality, definitely does exist. But socially enforcing the suppression of these kinds of stories isn't normal, it's antisocial behaviour. It's just more common, or possibly just more vocal, than the counterpart pro-social behaviour, because the patriarchy gotta socially reproduce somehow. Fear of that happening is reasonable, given the context, but should not be thought of as acceptable or inevitable. You can, and if you feel safe to do so should, share that joy anyway – at the very least, you'll get a better measure of your friends, but odds are good you'll find the joy doubled.

[u/SerentityM3ow]

This made me smile. I have been part of that group of women who adopted a stray ( In this case a man) for the night. We've made some really good friends like that! Lol

[u/outrageousVoid07]

Technically, yes, but a lot of that was in my head

I love reading and writing fanfics. Outwardly, I have very traditional masculine features and characteristics, so I was always worried that if I told my friends about this specific hobby, then they would consider me less of a man

However, I did take the step, and all my friends treated it like nothing more than a quirky hobby. It was a great relief

[u/Free-Veterinarian714]

I sometimes do hold back on it for that (frankly dumb) reason. Other times I just share happily: it depends on the company.

[u/TomCon16]

Not really but imma bisexual dude who’s always gotten along well with women so shrug

[u/Froteet → u/TomCon16]

Yeah it is kinda funny. It's info I left out of my post because I didn't really think it relevant. I'm also bisexual and have several other women friends.

Now that I think about it thats probably where my hesitation comes from because I've been chided in the past for these women only being friends and having no further feelings for them

[u/TomCon16 → u/Froteet]

Oh yeah absolutely! A lot of guys think it’s a sin to talk to women as friends ig

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[u/wolfeflow]

Not personally, but I totally understand what you’re saying and you should talk about it with contidence because it was an awesome experience.

I kinda earned myself a reputation among friends for my earnest acceptance of what comes my way, and willingness to retell it without shame if I feel none. Earns me mockery, for sure, but loving.

It probably help if you’ve ever performed on stage.