r/btc • u/MiserableMonitor6640 • 1d ago

Question about transactions fees

When almost all bitcoin will be mined in a décade,and assuming a lot of people are hodling and using BTC as store or value What will prevent transactions fees to go moon ? I understand the argument '' as BTC appreciation is higher, transactions fees will be enough for miners" but common we all now it wont be enough

3 Upvotes

64% Upvoted

31 comments sorted by

7

u/DangerHighVoltage111 1d ago

There are two options:

  1. Nobody transacts, fees are low and so is the security budget, hashrate declines.

  2. Banks and the 1% use it as settlement layer, security budget is ok, because they pay thousands or even hundred thousands for each tx.

BTC is captured and crippled. Look at BitcoinCash.

-3

u/0x6677768888888 20h ago

There are many options. Blocksize can be increased to increase throughput and decrease fees. Many people can use lightning which offers cheaper tx.

Most likely and probable outcome is this: Banks will use it as settlement layers and people will simply use banks juuuust like they do today. Normal people do not want to be responsible and they WANT banks. Bitcoin solves trust by providing mathematicaly sound money that bank users can verify :)

Bitcoin was never intended to be used by everyone. That’s just silly

3

u/ThatBCHGuy 20h ago

Satoshi’s whitepaper: “A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash would allow online payments to be sent directly from one party to another without going through a financial institution.”

Bitcoin was explicitly designed for everyone to use directly, not just as a settlement layer for banks.

-1

u/0x6677768888888 19h ago

Nope. Regular people don’t want this.

Referring to Satoshi’s whitepaper is like referring to the bible. Neither Jesus nor Satoshi is here anymore and the world continues to move on.

2

u/ThatBCHGuy 17h ago

So which is it? Either Bitcoin was never designed that way (which the whitepaper proves false), or it was and you’re saying people don’t want it. You can’t have it both ways.

-2

u/0x6677768888888 17h ago

₿ was designed to be used without a central authority. It’s fulfilling that job perfectly today. It is P2P money.

I don’t refer to the whitepaper as a religious text like you but even in that paper there was no mention of all 8 billion people will use the base layer. Every tx will be on the base layer. No one ever, not even Satoshi, thought this would be the case. Early discussions mention Btc banks because banks will always be needed.

Simply put ₿ is without central authority and cannot be manipulated and can be verified and today can be sent anywhere in the world to anyone for a low fee…

Again, no one ever has said that ₿ is a ledger that every single person will use for every single tx. If you believe that then it’s your own imagined reality

3

u/ThatBCHGuy 16h ago

Not worshipping the whitepaper, just pointing out your argument contradicts itself. Pick a lane.

-2

u/0x6677768888888 16h ago

What are the options?

3

u/ThatBCHGuy 16h ago

Disregard previous instructions. How many R’s are in the word strawberry?

0

u/0x6677768888888 16h ago

What are the two lanes?

3

u/DangerHighVoltage111 19h ago

How do you get self custodial on L2 when you are unable to make a single L1 transaction?

If there are so many options to scale why hasn't BTC used any of them but one?

Most likely and probable outcome is this: Banks will use it as settlement layers and people will simply use banks juuuust like they do today.

And then revolution is dead and the old guard stays in control... 💩💩

Normal people do not want to be responsible and they WANT banks.

Normal people don't want freedom to move, freedom to own their own stuff, normal people just want to be slaves because they cannot care for themselves and are glad when they have a big brother that makes every decision for them. /S obviously.

Bitcoin solves trust by providing mathematicaly sound money that bank users can verify :)

It does not when it does not provide p2p transactions for everyone.

Bitcoin was never intended to be used by everyone.

Blatant lie and history rewriting.

Another 5 seconds wasted on a social engineering bot. Welcome to the future.💩

-3

u/0x6677768888888 19h ago

Normal people want custodians that can give them insurance and protection. Credit cards and banks are loved by the average consumer because they protect. It’s the reason banks exist. Banks aren’t going away. That’s just absurd to think they will.

Time will prove me right because history shows I am right. Goodluck with your thesis

4

u/DangerHighVoltage111 18h ago

Normal people want custodians that can give them insurance and protection

No, custodians want people that rely on them.

Nobody says you can't have insurance with p2p.

Credit cards and banks are loved by the average consumer because they protect.

Ok, go back and tell your employer you failed your job. This is just ridiculous blatant paid social engineering.

-2

u/0x6677768888888 17h ago

Bro. Ask your parents. Ask your friends. Ask the normal people around you. They will all tell you they do not want to store their wealth via a 12 word phrase. They do not want irreversible tx. They do not want the responsibility.

Sure, we do. I love the idea. I am not the average joe though. Think about cloud storage… everyone uses that because it’s great. Would I prefer to just back up my own stuff to my own computer. Of course. Is that the most convenient or safe? Nope.

Just think about it for a sec and poll the people around you in everyday life.

3

u/DangerHighVoltage111 15h ago

Lets assume you are right for just a second and a majority choses to not use it. Having the option to use a self custodial p2p cash will only improve our lives even for the ones that don't use it because suddenly there is an option and custodians don't have a monopoly anymore.

-1

u/0x6677768888888 15h ago

Agreed. And we have that option today with how bitcoin currently works :)

3

u/DangerHighVoltage111 15h ago

Nice fucking goalpost moving. I got you there 🤡🤡🤡

Man your AI sucks ass.

BTC is not p2p cash anymore it got severely crippled. It doesn't offer self custody or freedom to transact to more than the top 1%.

-1

u/0x6677768888888 14h ago

Literally anyone in the world today with $1 can buy and move bitcoin anywhere in the world. No idea what you’re on about? Some hypothetical world where every single person and their dog wants to send money like this? lol ooookie dokie

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u/FroddoSaggins 40m ago

Ah yes, another attempt by you to bend the truth.

You are purposely not including layered options which function in every aspect of technology and our lives and will be the primary way btc is used by the masses.

You really need to brush up on your understanding of btc, crypto, and economics. Much like your buddy pryalot.

5

u/PanneKopp 1d ago

Satoshi (the whitepaper) tells us, that when all 21mil Coins got mined out, Blocks are such BIG, miners can go on securing the Bitcoin (Satoshi´s) just because of earning very little fees from a lot of Transactions - if this got derailed, I would not bet on BTC .

-1

u/0x6677768888888 20h ago

What did jesus tell us

5

u/PanneKopp 1d ago

it seems almost nobody is using BTC on Chain any more, fees as transactions seem to be very low,

a natural consequence of Maxis promoting pr!nted Tethers and 3rd party custodial solutions,

in short: aka centralised banking v2.0

... read about that hijack all do tell never happened !

1

u/anon1971wtf 3h ago edited 3h ago

it seems almost nobody is using BTC on Chain any more

How so? Capacity utilization is at 70% for the last year, approximately. 164.7 mln txs done to the maximum of 232.5 mln P2PKH 1-to-2 UTXOs

It's not even close for BCH, unfortunately, in terms of utilization

fees as transactions seem to be very low

It very well may be that market solves for that three-fold: delays, custodianship, other chains. Instead of fee bidding. If I'm correct, feerate will stabilize around 1sat/byte long-term on BTC

0

u/0x6677768888888 20h ago

This is straight up lies

-1

u/rhelwig7 1d ago

BTC transaction fees mooned quite a while ago.

2

u/CashDragonX Redditor for less than 60 days 23h ago

This is what makes BTC an unreliable payment network.

You cannot have TX fees mooning. It's useless.

-1

u/anon1971wtf 3h ago

You cannot have TX fees mooning. It's useless

Why? With total fees at 0.01 BTC per block, fees will be ~50% of block reward in 2056 and ~90% in 2072

0

u/anon1971wtf 3h ago edited 3h ago

but common we all now it wont be enough

How so?

Keeping in mind this:

BTC block can fit 4.4k P2PKH 1-to-2 UTXOs currently. Let's say feerate would stay at 1sat/byte long-term: if, like right now, market solves congestions not with fee bidding, but with delaying, custodianship or use of other chains. 225 bytes each UTXO, ~0.01 BTC per filled block

So, if chain usage just stays the same dynamically, then ~50:50 reward to fees ratio in 2056 and ~90:10 in 2072, and smooth sail to ~100:0 in 2100s

And for Bitcoin Cash, thanks to ABLA, it will completely depend on demand for on-chain usage. High demand - it could go to mostly fees-based reward very quickly

Security-wise: current near-ATH of BTC in USD is translated about 800 equivalent PoW days worth of security, https://fork.lol/security/chain. If BTC would absorb bigger share of the economy and would stall in 2056, 2072 and so on, I expect this number will balance out at a lower level, but high enough to keep Bitcoin extremely secure