Content Warning
Just finished Buffy for the first after a two month binge watch. Why do people hate Xander so much?
So, for context, I was lurking this subreddit while binge watching the show for the first time, which wasn't the best idea since I ended up getting some spoilers along the way, but that's on me lol.
Anyway, finished Season 7 yesterday and boy, has it been a wild ride. LOVED the show and pretty much everything about it. I'll miss the scooby gang. I'll be sure to watch Angel when I have more time. I confess that the ending and pretty much the back half of Season 7 left a sour taste on my mouth, and I didn't really vibe with the finale, and thought it was too rushed, as the season was poorly paced overall, and didn't think the Big Bad made much sense overall. But that's not the point of this post.
While lurking this sub, it was pretty much obvious that Xander was the least liked member of the scooby gang. A lot of people bash on his character here. I watched the show waiting for that one moment where it would click and I'd see why he was so unpopular, but it never did. In fact, I actually thought he had one of the best, if not the very best coming of age arc of the entire show. Am I crazy? Looking back, I see that in the first two seasons his obsession with Buffy is kind of off-putting, and of course, his leaving Anya at the altar was a pretty dick move, but you can still rationalize it. In the beggining of the show he was just a hormonal teenager and he let his feelings get the better of him. I get it. Teenage crushes are hard, especially when they are one-sided. And while it was harsh of him to try to sabotage Angel's courtship of Buffy, I still don't think Xander is a despicable human being for it. By the 3rd season he gets over his crush with Buffy and stays as a loyal friend to the very end, supporting her all the way.
As for leaving Anya at the altar, again dick move, but we are able to get the context of him being traumatized by his parents' abusive relationship with one another, and he ends up getting cold feet because he's afraid of turning into his father after they are married. I feel like this is Xander's worst sin in the show, but I still don't get how he's less popular than... checks notes... a guy who attempted to rape Buffy and a girl who skinned a guy alive and then went on to try to end the world? Not bashing on Spike and Willow, I love them as well, but you have to admit that they went way further down the bad path than Xander ever did. By the end of the show, he goes from being an immature and inconsequent teenager to the most successful member of the scooby gang career wise, he helps Buffy almost like a father figure to Dawn and comes to terms with being the guy on the squad with no powers with no resentment or pettiness. All this while staying consistent as the much needed comic relief of the show. His jokes almost always land and are a breath of fresh air when the show starts getting too dark. Xander is just an overall cool, charismatic guy with a great character arc. So why all the hate?
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Xander gets some great one-liners and he’s very consistent about showing up as the “regular guy” supporting role/palate cleanser compared to all the more unique/mystical characters. I think the main gripe a lot of people seem to have with him is his passive-aggressive approach to romance. He’s often laser-focused on the unrequited interests, and his actual romantic encounters usually skew toxic. That said—he’s not nearly as bad as his reputation on this sub. The truth is, he’s a solid representation of many young men: definitely NOT entirely good, but not deserving of complete vilification, either. We could spare ourselves a whole generation of Tates if we’d embrace nuance and stop hyperbolizing.
This comment is really lucid. I really made this post to try to understand what all the hate was about, and immediatly was flooded with replies like "let me guess, you're a man" and other passive agressive snide remarks for daring to like a mostly lukewarm character and ridiculed for failing to realize why Xander is the Buffyverse's personification of Hitler, apparently. As a newcomer to the show, I loved it and the whole cast, but the fandom is... wild, to say the least.
I caught on to Buffy when it first aired back in 1996 and I grew up with it, so I might have a different perspective, but Xander and co. fit for the time they were in. I’m not a huge fan of the Monday-morning quarterbacking. Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for learning more and growing collectively in our perspectives, but reaching back and criticizing things against today’s norms just isn’t a very sincere practice. The whole show was about demonstrating to women that they too can be the strong and multifaceted protagonists with flaws and burdens and legitimate importance.
Xander was meant to be …just some guy who shows up and isn’t a supernatural anything, but makes clever little jokes trying to lighten the mood.
That’s a much more realistic portrayal of many actual human men than we normally ever see in entertainment, and it’s this bothersome…
🎶maybe more men should get therapy🎶
There definitely is more nuance to the convo, but I will say Xander’s passive aggression isnt only for his romantic life. He does have incredibly problematic views and interactions with women in general.
I think he is generally the aspect of Buffy that’s aged the worst, but there is still plenty to love about the character.
Edit: Forgot to add that it’s important to note that Joss Whedon said Xander was his self insert, so misogyny and problematic interactions with women is in the dna of the character from the jump. It is what it is.
And it does not help that soon after it went off the air? Nick became a problem human. So the vicious cycle began. People look at his irl, then Xander, then back. And see too much similarity.
There's less than 5 years difference between them and they didn't start dating until Dawn was in college and had had at least one serious boyfriend. Plus it was one of those things where they wound up spending a lot of time together for a couple of reasons and just clicked.
My cousin married her older brother's best friend and they were very happy together. Like this is a normal thing that's happened throughout history where people will marry an older siblings friend because they hung out with them a bunch through the years.
Point being cousin and the guy had chemistry and Xander and Dawn seemed…not right. And given the other issues mentioned above and now revealed history… Xander and Dawn just doesnt work.
I mean watching the show should be plenty lol but:
-Xander uses magic to attempt to brainwash Cordelia just so he can dump her. Similar has been done by Willow and Warren and theyre repeatedly called out for it for years.
-Cheats on Cordelia with Willow.
-Repeatedly degrades Cordelia with misogynistic attacks against Cordelia for years.
-Repeatedly degrades Anya for not being human enough.
-Repeatedly judges Buffy’s romantic decisions while fumbling his own, especially egregious to me with Riley (who was in the wrong) and Spike (who he is incredibly judgmental about for selfish reasons, and I say that as a rabid anti-Spuffy fan)
-He repeatedly decides he knows better than everyone around him, but particularly Willow and Buffy when he lies about Willow’s ritual to save Angel.
-“I guess a guy has to be dead to make time with you” after zero indication from Buffy (and a direct “youre one of the girls” line) that she is interested in him.
-His fantasies about the potential slayers (many of which were underage) and how they needed him to protect them are icky.
-He leaves Anya at the altar, after kinda treating her awful the whole time anyway, which as I’m typing it started as a negative but may have been a gift to her ultimately…
-Oh and he almost lets Sweet kill Buffy (and Sweet does kill a bunch if innicents off screen and one or two on) instead of admit he summoned the demon.
A few of those arent precisely misogynistic I supposed but that was generally just off the top of my head.
I kinda hate that I do this, but honestly only way to answer is with 'what aboutism?'
-Xander uses magic to attempt to brainwash Cordelia just so he can dump her. Similar has been done by Willow and Warren and theyre repeatedly called out for it for years.
Willow, Spike and Faith committed actual rapes. Xander tried to make Cordelia sad but magic went wrong. I still don't understand how people consider thst spell as something he wanted. Not like any women wanted all men to rape them.
-Cheats on Cordelia with Willow.
So did Willow..
-Repeatedly degrades Cordelia with misogynistic attacks against Cordelia for years.
This is the funnies one yet. Cordy was about 100x worse for all of scoobies and literal school bully.
-Repeatedly degrades Anya for not being human enough
This is actually pretty fair, BUT the show used Anyas behavior as constant joke and Xander spend most time with her so he was always reacting to it.
-Repeatedly judges Buffy’s romantic decisions while fumbling his own, especially egregious to me with Riley (who was in the wrong) and Spike
They were friends and that's what friends do, except appearantly if you are a guy and friend is women. Also the hoops you have to hop to see Xander getting mad about Spikes rape scene to get to a point where Xander is the bad guy is truly impressive.
-He repeatedly decides he knows better than everyone around him, but particularly Willow and Buffy when he lies about Willow’s ritual to save Angel.
All of them do this constantly. Guess it's not as cool as when Willow tries to end the world so it's bad.
-“I guess a guy has to be dead to make time with you”
This one was mean. Truly worst sin in the whole show! You guys herald Cordy for being mean girlboss tho.
-His fantasies about the potential slayers (many of which were underage) and how they needed him to protect them are icky
I don't even remember this one, but I do remember Willow literally sleeping with one of them.
-Oh and he almost lets Sweet kill Buffy
This one is interesting as many think he was taking bullet for Dawn. I'm not sure about that, but Willow had way more magic issues.
I did leave the altar one out as it's pretty complicated. The episode is terrible in general and I often wonder if we'd feel different if it was done well. Xanders home life had been disaster and nobody still wanted to show him anything better(Giles completely ignored Xander whole show even tho he needed father figure the most of them group). He fucked up and the episode is so bad I don't even feel anything.
Well we agree on something then because I kinda hate that you do it too lol, especially when I briefly did call out my favorite character for doing something similar.
Though to clarify, Willow violating Tara’s mind is different than Spike’s attempted rape, even if both are bad. But I am unaware of any actual rape she committed. Also, the potential slayers she starts a relationship is only a few years younger than her and of legal age as far as i remember. And also a poorly written rebound, so whatever.
(Edit: I looked it up, she’s 19 and Willow is 22, vs Xander’s 22 and fantasizing about high schoolers who are made to look particularly young and helpless I might add.)
Also to clarify, Im not referring to Xander’s judgement against Spike for his attempted rape. I’m referring to him discovering Buffy slept with Spike after her resurrection. He’s again incredibly judgmental of her choices which is especially funny given his towards Anya.
All that said, none of your examples really work for me simply because it’s just blame shifting or completely ignoring Xander’s actions because someone else did something wrong. By that logic NONE of the characters did anything wrong because the First Evil did worse than all of them and therefore everyone is off scott free.
Also, the subject wasnt how bad each character was in relation to the others, simply what Xander had done that was particularly misogynistic. Granted, I zigged a little here and there, but not so wildly as to paint anything particularly out of context or frame anyone else as responsible for his behavior.
Sure, i never said anything to the contrary, though people are acting as though i did lol. The question posed to me was what had Xander done that misogynistic and i laid out some examples. It then turned into a circus act of trying to bring down other characters or blame him for his actions or simply state those actions didnt happen.
I never said Xander was the devil. In fact i went ahead and listed many good things he’s done as well since no one else arguing with me seemed capable of actually defending him lol. So i agree, Xander is just a person, with many flaws, particularly when it comes to women and selfishness.
But just because I’m criticizing one character does not mean i’m saying all the others are saints. I really wish people could actually think, it’s exhausting.
You did a lot more than zig and zag. Some of Your comments are a big stretch.
Willow cast a spell on Tara and then they slept together. Presumably multiple times. How is that NOT rape? She actively took away her ability to not consent.
I was only pointing out the hypocricy. The topic, and my question, was that "what has he done that is worse than others?", but all the reasons have been done by others.
I think blame shifting is bad, but it fits because of the hypocricy of all the examples.
Truth is that the reason people hate Xander is feeling based and trying to reason it with his actions is hilarious in the context of the show.
But it isn’t hypocrisy… i even point out an example or two of others. It feels like youre projecting a lot from others onto this and beyond what im focusing on. In which case yes, many of the characters have committed many terrible deeds. But those dont negate them somehow. The reason Xander comes off like an ass is that he acted like an ass and many of his antics have since been seen as an attitude of the past. Spike being evil still doesnt change that.
Thiiiiisssss thank you! ALL the characters in the show ARE FLAWED. That’s what Buffy is about, guys. It’s about the horrible things and the great things we all do or can do as humans. Like… willow going dark and becoming the big bad in season 6….. justified? Hmmm yes and no depending on how you look at it. Does loss justify murder? Does it justify attacking your best friends? I can give many many examples from ALL the characters in the show.
What about Buffy? Many flaws but perhaps one of THE STRONGEST (in all ways) female characters of the 90s. What an amazing message this show has. My favorite of all time.
Xander's issues are not glaring, they are subtle. Xander has no ambition or motivation. He puts no effort into anything, not even his friendships. He takes advantage of Willow as he knows she will help him skate by in school. He doesn't put any effort into his relationship with Cordelia and then cheats on her. Even after graduation he kind of lays around until he has to do something. Then there's Buffy who has the weight of the world on her shoulders. She has to sneak out to hunt monsters, keep who she really is a secret from her mother, try to pass high school, and have some semblance of a normal life and train. She has to make life and death decisions every day as a TEEN. And all Xander does is tear her down, judge her and criticize her. And WHY? Because he can't get in her pants! He has no responsibilities and he criticizes every move she makes. He's an asshole.
Exactly. His “jokes” are funny until you realize that they are most often negative and tear down the people around him. He is also self-effacing but not in a truly critical way, but rather a “give me
sympathy…. and maybe also sex?” kind of way.
People seem to like to take extreme views about characters. Xander is a bastard. Willow is an abusive rapist. Oz and Tara are Angels. Anya is a poor victim. You either love or hate Spuffy or BAngel.
Ignore them all. We love the characters because they aren’t perfect and they make mistakes. Plus it’s a cliche, but that things we now see as red flags barely registered back in the day.
I think Xander of all the characters is the most “of the time” as all teen boys (except Oz) were shown as dumb hormonal pervs. Xander is one of the least bad ones. He at least had no problem surrounding himself with women more intelligent and powerful than himself without belittling them. His background of an abusive family was almost played for laughs in season 4 but is less funny nowadays and they used it well in Hells Bells as you say.
So don’t listen to the naysayers. Enjoy the characters you enjoy and I recommend you don’t spend time online slagging off those you don’t as if they are all evil.
He’s constantly critical and self-righteous about Buffy’s romantic life even when the woman he asked to marry him has done more evil than Angelus and Spike combined.
This. And he also has a self righteous approach to most of the challenges that Buffy faces that leave her conflicted. He’s always front and center when the gang is talking down to Buffy like they have any idea what it’s like to be in her shoes.
Yes! I’m rewatching and just got to that episode last week. He’s so obviously inserting his desire to be in Riley’s shoes that he can’t see or refuses to acknowledge what Buffy deserves in a partner, which is not someone who will constantly make Buffy feel badly and untrusted for being the strong, independent woman that she is. Having a boyfriend who feels emasculated by being with the slayer? Come on. I don’t hate Riley overall, but Buffy’s frustration and impulse to let him go after he gave that ultimatum are completely valid. And Xander has barely been present that season, so what does he know about it? That’s why it feels like that stupid speech is about him and his feelings and not really about Riley. (I know he’s technically over Buffy at this point, but these kinds of moments make it feel like he’s always bitter he never got her.)
And in S3 E2 when he takes the lead in talking down to Buffy like her mom didn't kick her out of the house so she left town because the last thing she was told was that she wasn't welcome anymore, like what did you expect? And then they all fight zombies together and everything's okay? Yeah alright.
His role as a Scooby was great and I enjoyed that, but his creepy lines about women and how he talks down to Buff really make him unlikeable for me.
Yes, that speech was the turning point for me. He does skeevy stuff prior to that, of course. But the level of condescension in that speech, as someone who has no way to actually identify with what she went through gives me such a yuck. Makes me so bummed out that Buffy has friends who would speak to her that way.
He's not just critical of her romantic life. After Joyce told Buffy not to come back if she left the house, (I don't know how she could misinterpret that?), Xander jumped all over her. Xander had no ambition in life, no responsibility but was the first to jump all over how Buffy performed.
Then you shouldn't like any character in the show. They are ALL pieces of shit amd do horrible irredimable things at one point or another
Edit:
So you reply asking why I am here if I don't like the show, then like a coward block me before I even get a chance to reply? Real mature.
Where did I say I am not a fan of the show?
What I am not a fan of, is when people dunk on Xander excessively. Other characters do the exact same things Xander might have done at a different time, yet people excuse them and vilify Xander as if he was doing some horrible, heinous, unforgivable thing. I dislike the hypocrecy and the disproportionate hate. He is not perfect and you will never catch me saying so, but I would like some balance in the hate.
Acknowledging all of them have flaws and have done bad things at one point or another is not disliking the show. Or are you the kind of person that thinks if anybody says ANYTHING remotely negative or critical of something it MUST mean they hate it? Because that's just immaturity. One should be able to like something and still acknowledge the issues within it.
The characters and the narrative are VERY forgiving of Xander's faults. Leaving Anya at the altar is one of the only times that Xander is 'punished' for wrongdoing and even then it lasts all of a few seconds and is eventually put on Anya instead with the implication she should have just gotten over it already.
Xander is awful but he would be a lot more tolerable if his being awful was addressed in any way. It never is.
This is the most obvious and in your face example of that, but if you use it as a fun exercise in media literacy to spot them on a rewatch you can notice many more.
While I am firm Xander defender I do think the writers dropped the ball on his consequences. The way they brushed off his “Go Get Em!” Lie to Buffy, yeah that was a mistake.
Yeah, that's my main problem with his character. Other characters have consequences when they "behave badly". Like Willow with her doing spells to try and jump past things she personally doesn't want to deal with. Or when the narrative said Buffy was having the "wrong kind of sex" in s6.
I feel like the only time he was punished was when he was caught cheating on cordy...she broke up with him, but she's the one that ended up with rebar through her gut and heartbroken. And then Xander was a brat about his bad behavior. Or when he blackmailed Amy into doing a spell that messed with all the minds and consent of the women in Sunnydale, and instead of getting any consequences, he's rewarded with Cordy being flattered and deciding to date him again.
The narrative basically just shrugs when he does something questionable or worse, behaves like he's correct. Meanwhile, our heroine is punished constantly. It just rubs me the wrong way that the writing treats him way differently than the other heroes
I just rewatched that episode with the love spell, and me and my partner were both talking about this. How Buffy makes a joke about the "roofie spell", but then immediately praises him for not taking advantage of her ("I also remember that you didn't. Undress me.") - like, what?! That line didn't need to be said at all lol.
I remember reading somewhere (no idea where now - probably on Tumblr a decade ago) that Xander is basically a JW self-insert, and I think that makes a lot of sense when thinking about how little consequences his actions have.
The Angel Buffy relationship is supposed to be a extended metaphor for abusive age gap relationships and the nice guy perfect boyfriend turning into abusive ex once he gets sex. So this 26 year old is dating Buffy
So Xander is the friend who doesn't want her back with this toxic person and she is about to leave him for good so he lies to her.
Does this seem like the wrong choice now?
People keep forgetting that their relationship was not a good thing.
Why is Anya the victim of hell's balls when the demon who wanted revenge on her mind fucked Xander? Sure it's annoying when they don't do anything with Xander but if Anya left had gotten the fake memories, you lot would be singing kumbaya about her making the harsh but right decision.
Xander was one of my favorite characters when I watched it back in the day, and he definitely didn't get the hate back then online that he seems to get today. Maybe he's a bit dated today, but I think the hate he gets is way over the top.
Maybe people would go less over the top if people weren't bending over backwards trying to defend him.
His portrayal in the late 90s was more typical of a male character on a show, and it hasn't dated well.
His character has lots of good points and many bad points. It's worth recognising and discussing what those bad points are and why they are not ok rather than just saying "Nope it's all fine stop ruining my childhood with your modern ideas"
Don't put words in my mouth, please. I said the hate he gets is over the top, not that people shouldn't discuss the negative parts of his personality. They're all flawed characters, that's what makes them so great.
But the discussion around Xander here often goes way beyond merely being critical of him and into outright vilification from a lot of people.
Fair. I totally glossed over him cheating on Cordelia while writing this post. But Willow was also cheating on Oz and why doesn't she get the same flak over it?
There were times Cordelia would just walk up to the gang and start trashing all of them. Xander wasnt forcing her to keep in contact with them or anything like that. Idk what you mean by its a slap in the face to her they were broken up and Cordy didnt want to be friends with any of the scoobies
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u/Pedals17You’re not the brightest god in the heavens, are you?11d ago
Buffy didn’t do a thing to deserve the awful ways Cordelia treated her in Season 3. It’s especially galling since Buffy reached out to help after the breakup with Xander.
He didn't. People conveniently forget that, for a long time, Cordelia was literally a bully who tormented Willow before Buffy moved to town. Yes, she grew greatly as a person, but Cordy started out very mean and hateful.
That’s what I thought. He threw barbs at her again but only when it was established she preferred that interaction instead of him being kind or having pity on her. It was their way of moving on by going back to how it was before they dated and she wanted it that way.
As a male myself, my problem with Xander was his belief he had a say in the girls' relationships. My favorite thing said to him was by Buffy when Willow decided to still date Oz after finding out he was a werewolf and Xander wasn't happy.
I disliked Xander with a passion back when it first aired. His early attitude towards rejection and Buffy in particular was toxic in my eyes even back then. On rewatch over twenty years later I actually found myself appreciating his more redeeming moments contrasted against his mistakes. I have a better understanding of people now than I did as a kid. Everything is grey, not black and white. I still don't rank him amongst my favourite characters, but I guess seeing all the other characters' faults more now, just makes him and all the others more complex and interesting.
I've been rewatching (admittedly only the late seasons) and wondering the same thing. Like in S6 he's clearly, to me, the most decent of all the core characters. Leaving Anya hits so hard precisely because be's so decent, but it's also really well justified in the episode - and it's not just that he's scared of ending up like his dad (though it is that), but that he's been put through a horrifying vision where he's worse than his dad ever was. Of course he's not in a fit place to get married half an hour later!
I also appreciate that he consistently hates Spike, which you know ... is also actually justified?
Perhaps the problem in both these cases is he doesn't quite fit the way the show otherwise works. He doesn't shrug off the visions of the future as just a metaphor for his doubts. He doesn't forgive the mass-murdering vampire rapist just because he's cool and sexy. He acts too much like a real guy would, if these situations were real, and that hits badly with the sort of fan who wants a more escapist fantasy where bad magic isn't really that bad and being hot more than makes up for being evil.
Because his flaws directly remind many women of some real-life men they're forced to deal with (extended family, coworkers, schoolmates...), that they secretly find very cringey, annoying and/or creepy. Men that they can't stand, but are forced to act friendly with.
Willow, Spike, Anya, Faith, Angel... all did far worse than Xander, but none of that really matters.
Because for most of us, their actions aren't reminding us of people and memories in our actual lives.
Most people don't have personal experience with murderers, serial killers, abusive or violent addicts, unhinged violent people... so those characters' bad actions don't hit us personally.
Plus, their actions always involved the supernatural, so it's easier to take distance from it (while Xander always was the ordinary muggle of the group, so all his bad moments feel like real life).
It's the same reason why Umbridge is more hated than Bellatrix and Voldemort, even though she objectively caused much less damage.
Because most people have suffered from "Umbridges" in their lives : bigots and sadists who hid under a fake smile, asslicking backstabbing coworkers, managers and teachers abusing their authority or unfairly singling you out, etc.
While most people in the West, especially Whites, DON'T have direct experience with war, Nazis, terrorists or serial killers. So, Death Eaters, Bellatrix and Voldemort don't feel personal.
Xander has a toxic relationship with women and is really passive aggressive, but more importantly he has zero consequences for most of what he does which makes it feel like the show is giving him a pat on the back and a thumbs up.
If he'd had to face consequences earlier on, or been called out on his problematic behavior and seemed at all repentant about it, his arc would have read more as just a very typical immature guy growing up and learning healthy coping methods for his feelings.
Ultimately I think what rubs fans the wrong way is that the world around him validates him and lets him off for his flaws, not the fact that he has flaws.
I also watched an interesting video on virtue mirroring, which is the tendency to feel like the values of the media we consume ought to match our internal values (and is kind of a mistake), and I think Xander and Spike in season 6 trigger that for a lot of fans. So they balk at it as they feel like they have to either condemn or justify the bad behavior.
But we do adopt values from TV. I was a teenager watching Buffy. My parents are pretty shitty people. All I could learn from them is being jealous of others, emotionally retarded, submissive, etc. watching Buffy as a teen helped me build my own set of values, how to stand up for myself, how to own your truth, how to protect those who need protection, how to promote tolerance, etc at workplace. Values from TV do help a lot. Buffy had strong female characters. Not sure how Buffy affected boys, hopefully they looked at Buffy's set of values and not Xander's.
I think virtue mirroring is more about seeing what you consume as a reflection of your values, which is different than learning from what you consume.
Virtue mirroring says that what you watch is a reflection of you and if there's something problematic in it, then there's something problematic in you. And then you need to either loudly object or distance yourself from it.
This is different from ethical consumerism which is about not financially supporting projects that cause harm. Ethical consumerism is about practical impact on the world, virtue mirroring is about whether or not you're a "good person".
As for his treatment of Anya, it’s not just that he left her at the altar, but that he also incessantly criticized her throughout the entire time of their relationship.
It’s this and other negative details about his personality that add up over time and paint a clearer picture of his dark psychological traits.
I was recently noticing that he is very critical of the way Anya communicates herself and it bothers me even though I’m not in the anti-Xander camp! Buffy and Willow don’t seem to like her, and he seems aware of it, so he tries to get her to tone down her idiosyncrasies instead of telling Buffy and Willow to get over it
Anya is often trying to share life experiences and opinions in such a way that looks and feels very similar to how autistic women try to connect with others. She is quite blunt, has uncommon interests and knowledge, explicitly reflects how life is emotionally effecting her in that moment, etc. Xander often cuts her off or tells her that no one wants to hear what she has to say when she is trying to communicate with the rest of the group in this way. I would be deeply hurt if my partner treated me the way Xander treats Anya.
All the other characters are less patient with Anya than Xander regarding the blunt way she expresses herself. I didn't interpret Xander's critique of Anya's speech patterns as just being antagonistic towards her, but as an actual and genuine concern for her being able to communicate in a socially acceptable way. Anya"s manner of expressing herself is objectively not well received in society. At least Xander seemed to "scold" her as a way to help her learn. Meanwhile, Buffy, Willow, and even Giles were just like "damn, just shut up already" about it.
Yes, they are worse towards her for sure! I’m just saying I wish he’d bring that “you make me feel like a man” energy to his regular interactions with her
It's his treatment of women that people dislike. He consistently judges buffy for her romantic choices and who she sleeps with, in the first season or 2 he is jealous of any boy Buffy glances at because he has an unrequited crush on her, he leads willow on when he knows she has a crush on him in the first 2 seasons, has the audacity to be upset with anya for sleeping with spike after he left her at the altar, etc.
Willow goes bad in a big way and then has to go on a whole arc of learning how to be a normal person who earns people's forgiveness. Xander, on the other hand, is consistently terrible to women and never receives any consequences and, in fact, it's barely commented on in most cases. This characterization is akin to what women experience irl with "nice guys" who treat women badly and is why people dislike him more than actual monsters on the show.
He literally tried to have faith kill Angel despite knowing he wasn’t evil, he was the classic ‘nice guy’ trope in seasons 1&2 just hanging round until Buffy chose him. He has a borderline incel mindset about women which makes sense because so does Joss Whedon and Xander is his self insert character.
I've thought about this angle as well. Younger audiences are more likely to be put off by his personality because of changing social norms. I'm 32 years old. I was a teenager in the 2000's, being like Xander was the cultural norm back then, so his antics don't really phase me. He wouldn't be seen as a bad guy in any metric. I'm a big defender of analyzing art taking into consideration the period it was made in. As you said, this is a 90's and early 00's show. Times were just different.
As for conflating with the real life actor, that's even more insane. I mean, we're talking about Xander here, not Brendon. And I think that if people feel so strongly against the creators and actors, then why just not watch the show at all?
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u/Pedals17You’re not the brightest god in the heavens, are you?11d ago
It’s kinda sad how Nicholas Brendon was basically Xander’s dad irl.
I was a teen when I started watching it in the 90s and I loved him back then. He was actually my favorote character. As I got older, I started to see how controlling, passive aggressive and jealous he can be and how he doesn't face many consequences. Seeing him as a self-insert for Joss made made some of his opinions and actions ever more obvious when I realized during his "go get Riley" speech that we are supposed to be seeing him as our point of view, as the "rational opinion" and that made me feel kinda gross and put all his controlling, jealous behavior and lack of consequences into perspective.
I still like Xander because he is nothing if not consistent and I value character continuity. Plus, realizing, in my 40s, that's he's an abused kid for most of the series gives him some HUUUGE leeway. But, everybody has to get there on their own and, if they don't, that's not on them. Xander can be an utter shit and, with changing social mores, you can't fault modern viewers for it leaving a bad taste in their mouths. Not everyone CAN view a series through the lens of its era especially when they didn't LIVE through that era.
i was a teen in the early 2000s when i watched it, and i couldn't stand him.
i agree that people didn't hate him as much as they do now, but as someone who's not from the states, people—especially girls—disliking xander was pretty damn normal back then
This didn't start in 2025 or even the last 10 years. Some people just actually don't like him. Because of our real thoughts and reactions, not because we don't think we're supposed to or whatever, and not for the majority of people speaking here at a guess because we don't grasp the context of the time. I'm older than you. Ups and downs in which view is more popular due to culture will be a thing, but the backlash against Xander originated with people older than you who were there. One comment kind of rudely encouraged you to use the search bar if you have not. Look into it more. Google it. YouTube it. It's not a canned Gen Z outrage thing. It's a different opinion. I'm not trying to convince you to share it, only respect it for what it actually is by pointing this out.
I find it very condescending to say maybe it's just NeW sOcIaL nOrMs. He has skeeved me out since I was 12 and is a core reason I became so interested in Buffy- I liked the snow but I was also fascinated by what the show is saying intentionally and unintentionally about young women and many of its themes with everything that it portrays and how it handles things.
the "conflating with the real life actor" is a real recent talking point (like last few years) & not true at all. Xander-hate way predated the actor getting outed as an abuser.
xander gets hated on a lot not because he is flawed (because all our scoobies are flawed) but because the show never calls him out for it. he never sees consequences to his actions like willow or buffy. as such, it seems that the show never treats his toxic behavior as problematic. this gets extremely annoying at the show goes on because at some point it just feels like it is gaslighting us. it comes to a head in s5 'into the woods' when he lectures buffy about being a bad gf to riley after she just found out about riley cheating.
he follows up that speech with the 'i love you' speech he gives anya. this speech also is completely out of place and antithetical to how he actually treats her. he constantly is embarrassed by who she is and the things she says. he regularly puts her down. if we watched it happen to an irl friend, we'd think their partner is emotionally abusive.
so Xander spends all 7 seasons making inappropriate sexual comments to his female friends, especially buffy. at no point does he ever stop feeling entitled to have a say in buffy's sex/dating life. it would not be a stretch to say he never totally gets over buffy & just settles w/ anya. he treats anya badly, culminating in dumping her at the alter.
the one time he gets called out is by anya, after he slut shames her for sleeping with spike in s6. but the following season, he gets rewarded by going on a first date & then no-strings-attached hookup with anya. aya, on the other hand, gets the storyline 'joke' of no one wanting to sleep with her.
xander gets painted as 'the heart' of the scoobies & it just feels forced. like, the writers didnt know what to do with him, so they decided to give him this descriptor to make the character more meaningful. but he really peaked at 'the zeppo.' the writers should've made him more mature after that episode to reflect some growth, but they never do.
Giles of course was the Heart. He was all heart, and without him there was no group. People take the S4 joining spell to be definitive character defining, but not really. I mean it was such a toxic and wrong take on the Slayer that Powers That Be had to send the First Slayer to psychically murder them in their sleep a little to show how pissed they were.
It seems the writers always wanted a "buffoon" character in the episode, and made one of the characters say and do something really stupid.
Xander got it a lot, but Giles did too, and the humor of it undercut the character.
Don't make Giles a dumb bunny, he's not. This got so bad in S4 they resorted to making him a drunken idiot and a pathetic simpering wannabe for half the season. It was a missed opportunity to see him as a working professor at the college.
I'm older than you are and hated Xander from the get go. Found him extremely annoying and idiotic and I don't know about America but he would be seen as a douche in my country in the 2000's. But none of my girl friends back in the day liked him, so it might've been because he just wasn't attractive to us back in the day. ( And even less now)
I'm older than you, watched Buffy when it first aired, and I along with many of my peers hated Xander just as much back then.
"It was the norm back then and people are judging him through modern standards" is just not true. People recognized mysogyny in the 90s and hated hm for it then too.
So I'm me a year or 2, depending on which character you're talking about, younger the characters on the show, I watched it as it aired. I'm also a guy.
Xander sucked back then, and there were plenty of us who said it. While yes, people are pointing out that, Hey, you know, Joss, this and the actor that that was not what was being said back then. And what was being said back then was that he felt entitled to the women in his life, that he treated all of his friends terribly, he treated all of his girlfriends terribly. He threw a fit about how he was the lone 'zeppo' of the group but he chose to be there, he chose to continuously put himself in situations where his self esteem took a hit, and then expected everyone else to kiss his butt and make him feel better about it.
When him and Cordy started having a thing, most of the people who were the same age then were pointing out how terrible a friend, he was being to Willow to Buffy, and in Jesse's memory by choosing to date someone who was a bully to his supposed best friends.
When Buffy dated anyone, he was a Jack asked. When Willow dated people? He was jealous like now. Plenty of people have been saying this. We just also understood the internet thing, then if someone said, Hey, I really like this character. You didn't come at them and say, well, this is all the ways that they're shit. You kept those discussions to the people who wanted to have them. Which is not fandom etiquette anymore and I think we've lost something as a fandom in general because of it.
But don't try to act like any of this is new. I know none of those websites are still up, but none of those forums are still up. But, yeah, it was very prevalent back then.
Yeah, I’m a long time fan and just finished another random rewatch of the series. I don’t dislike Xander. He had SOME good character progression but I think a lot of people hate him because he can be pretty annoying at times. He’s not as open minded as the rest of the crew and his approach to things often ends up on the very dumb side. I appreciate his one liners but some times his humor just seems out of place for some reason. Of course I also love that the show can make clever well timed jokes in serious situations but for some reason it just seems like he’s a big man child sometimes which I think is a shame for his character. Meanwhile on Angel, you have “regular” guys like Charles Gunn who is probably as big a nerd as Xander but also considered the toughest “regular guy” in the buffyverse. In other words, I think it’s the fact that Xander always stayed the guy that you send out on errands before the big battle. That world just wasn’t really for him. That’s ok of course but made him stand out. He honestly should have died a long time ago but the writers made him comedy relief.
ITT: People trying really hard to rationalize their hate for character that is entirely feeling based.
In a show where all characters did bad things and had the good and the bad, Xanded did probably the least.
People need someone to criticize and there is nobody else left. Buffy, Willow and Cordelia are girl bosses so no feminist is going after them. Giles and Spike are so charismatic that people are literally thinking their low moments are not canon. Oz actually is almost perfect.
Only good argument really is that many Xander flaws feel real and is something everyone has seen.
But in general it's one of the worst cases of pick and choosing you ever see.
Math. Buffy had a big female fan base, although it had plenty of appeal for male fans, much of it heaped onto Xander. Many young women who liked Buffy were nerds, at a time when that was socially difficult, so they wanted to hang with other nerds. Young, male nerds at the time were infamous for shutting/chasing out women from their groups/clubs/hobbies/lives, while objectifying them and complaining about their absence. Xander was designed to appeal to them (as in, to any teen boy), so they imitated him, so Xander reminds people of real-life terrible boys they’ve known. That’s mostly not Xander’s fault. He was a MUCH better dude than nerd-culture sex pests in the late 90s-early 00s. But they were all trying to be him, so he smells bad by association.
I’m certain that’s a common experience, because I’ve rarely met a Buffy fan over 30 who hasn’t identified the Xander in creeps or bullies from their school days. A little of that is the amount of Joss in Xander that can touch on genuine commonalities among people, but I’d say more of it is how impactful Buffy was to pop culture (and the culture Buffy already came out of) cementing that archetype for crappy boys to try to imitate.
He's the straight white male, that isn't the bad boy that only I can change, on a show that has a huge fan base within the feminist community. A large portion of the fans hated Riley from day one too.
I feel the same as you. Xander has some flaws abd problematic behaviours, sure, but so does pretty much every charachter on the show. In many ways I think he is one of the most realistic and nuanced characters. There are Defintiely some double standards being held as well as this idea that people have to be perfect alll the time and historically to be ‘good.’ Btvs is a show about adolescents, a time when you haven’t got a firm grasp on who you are or what healthy boundaries, behaviours or relationships looks like. To learn those things you often have to mess up ir overstep a boundary and get things wrong occasionally! Xander defintiely goes through that process, and is actively learning (and still learning as the show ends). Which is perhaps a different or slower arc than other charachters, but more realistic imo
Do people hate Xander?
I like all the Scooby gang.
I think his reputation has suffered from some real-world mistakes he has made. BUT Xander is still an important part of the shows success.
I think it's a mix of things. Xander is very much written in ways that now seem incel-adjacent, and he's often cruel and/or passive-agressive when he feels slighted, and will sometimes even gloat when a character gets 'punished' for things he disagrees with. In particular, he's straight up a bad friend to Buffy during the Angelus arc and its aftermath.
I think Xander's entertaining and funny and I enjoy watching him most of the time, but I also hate the guy. As in, if he was a real guy I had to interact with...I simply wouldn't interact with him.
He's an entitled loser with a chip on his shoulder that thinks he knows best and acts as though everyone else owes him something, especially the women. His character sucks, I think he's a terrible friend and a terrible partner, he's incredibly selfish and bitter. Sure, he's entertaining to watch! But that doesn't take away that his character himself sucks.
I also think, as someone else pointed out, the way he never has consequences for his actions is infuriating.
If I was in the Buffyverse, I wouldn't interact with him either. I wouldn't even hang out in the same room as him.
But, if you think about it, TV creators basically are asking people to hang out with the characters that they create. If they're supposed to be shitty douchebags, and that's the whole point, that's one thing, because we expect that, and we know what we're getting into. But the heroes that we're expected to spend 144 nights with and cheer for? Nope. Make them people that we'd want to spend time with.
I’m rewatching it for the first time in a couple of years, I was 16/17 when it first came out and had a massive crush on Xander. The older I got and the more re-watches I did the more I understand why people give him such a bad rap.
There are things he went through that I think we do forget though, he was sexually assaulted by a teacher who was a praying mantis (and that’s before the whole Faith thing).
My biggest issue with him is he never takes accountability for his actions. I’m not talking the big ones like, Angel or leaving Anya, cheating on Cordy. One thing that really pisses me off is in The Pack he claims amnesia from everything he did and said. I hate that he never properly apologises to the girls for what he said, especially Willow.
His actions on his own are realistic etc. Of course they make sense. But the narrative paints him as the good guy and doesn’t call out his wrongs which emphasises it. Plus hypocrisy is the trait I hate most (in real life and in shows) - yes I know there are worse but hypocrisy makes me mad and he is a massive hypocrite.
I don’t consider myself a full-on Xander hater as I mostly enjoy what he brings to the group (and the Chandler energy) but I will literally never forgive him for calling Buffy an idiot (in front of a huge party they imposed on her to avoid actually talking) for being traumatized about having to kill the love of her life just like two months prior. Yes they didn’t know all the details, but even assuming she “just” had to kill Angelus, not Angel, how do you not realize how much that would mess her up—and then had to deal with it fully alone, but they’re just mad they had to pick up the slaying slack over the summer. Anyway they never showed an apology scene from him, or even Xander taking one second to empathize about what she went through because he hates Angel too much to care. (Frankly Williws apology scene at the end of that episode was trash and not enough, but at least there was something)
Not to mention him cheering her on beforehand and not letting her know about Willow trying the spell again (paternalistic bullshit to say he was doing her a favour or protecting her poor feminine sensibilities by knowing better than her what information she needs to properly save the world. She fucking stabbed Angel when she needed to to stop Acathla, so the stupid argument of ‘oh but she would’ve held back or even died if Xander didn’t lie to her face, how lucky her strong manfriend was there to gatekeep information from her’ pisses me off— she would’ve done what needed to be done either way and maybe even been less traumatized, whatever the end result, if she knew what Willow was doing. It’s just a pattern of paternalistic entitlement on Xander’s part and it grinds my gears! Hope that helps!
both of your examples of willow and spike are viewed by all the characters including themselves as horrible acts in need of redemption. xander has no such actions including leaving anya at the alter which he never takes complete ownership of as well as "kick his ass," cheating on cordelia, having sex with faith while willow was in love with him, falling into danger with several motw and summoning a musical demon.
his only "arc" is realizing that he's going nowhere after high school and getting a job. literally the bare minimum
I watched it when it originally came out on tv so no binge watching, I think that really has a difference in how people view the show and characters. I'd love to see a discussion here of people who watched it first run on television and only got to see one episode a week versus newbies who were able to binge watch.
Watched weekly at best, also had no friends to talk about it with or regular Internet, no connection to discourse as I watched, andeta just say was certainly not immersed in a progressive or feminist culture, had not language or exposure to 'toxic masculinity' or literally anything along those lines.
I was roughly the character's ages, a little younger, when it first came out, I watched it weekly. It was my favorite show.
I was on the internet and stuff, and if it matters, I'm a guy, but no I mean, I knew - at least guys, you would talk to online, I didn't have friends in school. But Xander wasn't popular with most of the guys who watched the show simply because of how he treated the women in his life. And how he expected it to have his butt patted whenever his feelings got hurt, but the girls just had to suck it up and deal.
He really just kind of annoyed me as a character, but I didn't really move on to hating him until him and Cordelia started having whatever they had is of a relationship, because I remember going, you know, what? If someone treated my best friends the way she treats them. I don't care how hot she is or how much she's willing to make out with me. I would definitely not be willing to have anything to do with her. Because you're hurting my friends and you're hurting the people that I say are my best friends and that was actually what I saw a lot of people talking about back then.
Xander is a great character. Not always the best person, but he was pretty progressive for his time because he wasn't a raging misogynist. All of his friends were women and every character massively fucked up at different times. Yes, he was a dick for abandoning Anya at the altar, but the narrative pretty clearly explained why he did it. And Anya went back to being a vengeance demon and that just gets ignored.
I actually like Xander most of the time but the way he treats women is definitely what makes people hate him. Personally, I’ll never get over how he treated Cordelia. Chased her for YEARS, always flirting with her until they were in close proximity when she kind of joined the scooby gang, waited until she fell in love with him and then broke her heart. I’ll personally never forgive either him or Willow for what they did to Cordy and Oz. Then he went as far to proposing to Anya, and then changing his mind at the alter, which I understand can happen. He knew he wasn’t ready and of course he shouldn’t have married her but the fact he’d pretty much always felt he wasn’t ready and waited until the worst possible moment to admit that definitely irks me, especially given his track record. Not to mention, he’s always been very critical of Buffy’s relationships with Angel and Spike, making her out to be the worst person in the world for being with someone “so evil”, yet his girlfriend/fiancé literally lived for 1000 years doing the worst kind of things imaginable and destroying lives.
I will say what I do like about Xander, is that he’s the only main character that’s just a regular human. His speech to Dawn in season 7 definitely changed my views about him and made me appreciate everything he does for Buffy, knowing he’s at a disadvantage and his life is at a higher risk.
However, in the comics, Xander ends up with Dawn, and I truly believe that if the show had continued, this would have happened. I’m immensely grateful it didn’t because there would be no saving his character after he gets with the girl he’s believed to have known since she was a child.
Did you seriously just say that Xander chased Cordelia for years? In what bizzaro land was that in? Cordelia constantly bullied Willow and Xander. It was Jesse that seemingly chased her.
I think I missed the part where Xander "chased and flirted with Cordelia for years". It's pretty well established that Cordelia relentlessly bullies him and Willow and just generally looks down on them for being "losers" and not in with the "popular" kids. Jesse is the one who flirts with her in the beggining of the show before he quickly gets killed off. Xander and Cordelia kinda just happened. They shared a spur of the moment kiss when they were being chased by that bug monster in Buffy's house and it went on from there. There definetly was no long term courtship by Xander's part before that. In fact, it was just him standing up to her bullying.
Edit: In fact, I think it's funny that there's all this Cordelia glossing on this sub like she's some of "yaas slay queen" icon when for 90% of her time on the show she's extremely shallow and cruel to the scoobies. In fact, she only starts to come around after she gets rescued by Buffy from invisible girl, and it feels like her warming up to them after that fact stems from self-protection instinct rather than a genuine desire to befriend them and make up for her cruel actions towards them in the past.
Xander has no major character arc to speak of. He's basically the same guy at the end of the show as he was at the beginning. I will give him that he broke the cycle of abuse by moving out of his parents' place and never abusing drugs or alcohol. That's honestly really admirable and is quite a big feat for a neglected child.
That being said, his biggest character trait isn't that he comes from a rough childhood; it's his insecurity and low self-esteem that he masks with bravado and humor. Xander throughout the series consistently demonstrates how insecure and needy he is, probably most exemplified in the episode where his insecure persona and his confident bravado persons are separated into two Xanders. Anya even outright identifies it in Once More With Feeling. "When things get rough he just hides behind his Buffy. Look, he's getting huffy because he knows that I know." And the entire point of that episode was that Sweet forced everyone to sing their truth. This is in season six, mind you. He's still an insecure and needy person as we're approaching the 25% mark in season six. And we all remember how his wedding turned out in the end of season six. That was an opportunity for him to show that he's grown, he's changed, he's learned from his childhood, and he's willing to take a risk on happiness despite being scared that he'll turn out like his dad. Instead, he allowed his insecurity and self esteem to let him be tricked and taken advantage of. He took the coward's way out.
By contrast, Spike went from outright evil to neutered to becoming obsessed/infatuated with the Slayer to regaining his soul and developing genuine love for Buffy. Willow went from neurotic, shy, unconfident book nerd to a very confident, self assured master of the mystic arts whose ego cost her the love of her life, strained her relationships with her friends and loved ones, and forced herself to reckon with the woman she'd become. Buffy went from reluctant chosen one to a massive and fundamental upheaval of her connection to her core values as she thought she understood them to fully embracing her destiny as a leader and hero. Giles went from detached and stuffy librarian to a father figure and mentor who learned how to show his love and care for his pupils. Even Faith went from troubled, selfish, and cocky Slayer with a rough life to remorseless killer to self reflective and willing to accept the legal and social consequences of her actions as a way to atone to herself, the Scoobies, and the world.
Xander went from high school student to Average Joe with a 9-to-5. There's no depth, no arc, no growth. He's the funny guy with nothing else really of note to contribute. I wish beyond all measure that the writers let him permanently absorb the tactical mind of his soldier persona from the season two Halloween episode, instead of trotting it out when the gang needs a plot device to keep the episode moving. At least then you have a "guy in the chair" and there's loads of potential. Instead, he helps research with everyone else and makes jokes.
Yes, he does some cool things and has some cool moments. He is unwaveringly loyal to Buffy and Willow, and that's not nothing. I can generally look past or at least roll my eyes at his humor being a product of the 90s that hasn't aged particularly well. What I can't look past is that he contributes nothing of substance to the group and he never grows as a character. This is why I don't like him, and I think I speak for a lot of the Xander Detractors out there that his (lack of a) character arc is a major reason why he's generally the least liked character in the show.
Dude saves the world multiple times. Helps his magic/Super strong/wearwolf/vampire friends with NO abilities for 7 years. Every episode he's putting his life on the line to help his super friends. He goes from a guy who doesn't go to college and has multiple jobs, to having a great career, which he constantly uses to help his friends. IE repairing Buffy's house a hundred times.
Through all his family issues and personal insecurities, he loves and dates a mass murdering ex demon for multiple years.
I give up... I don't know why I let these threads work me up. People like you have a throw away paragraph at the end of 5 dissing Xanders character every day on here, conveniently forgetting all that he's done. Which in hindsight, is more than any other character, when you consider he is just a normal dude. Doesn't have to get involved at all, yet saves the world multiple times and risks his life every day....
I don't agree at all that he has no character arc throughout the show. If you compare Season 1 Xander to Season 7 Xander, it's a completely different person. He goes from an immature inconsequent teenager to a stable guy and having constructed the best career path among all the scoobies. It's implied that he's not an average joe 9-5 grunt, but rather that he's a boss like figure in the company he works for. He has meeting with important clients and manages staff. It's a leadership role. Hell, he even surpassed Willow in this regard, as she was always expected to excel due to her intelligence and instead she just ended the show cruising by in college, but with no noteworthy professional accomplishments.
And while we're talking about Xander/Willow, let's not forget that Willow literally took Dawn to the equivalent of a drug den and left her alone to get high, subsequently crashing their car and injuring Dawn. Meanwhile, Xander is a rock hard father figure to Dawn and has one of his best moments in the show with his speech to her in Season 7. Buffy trusts Xander with hers and Dawn's life, their dynamic in the final season is really neat to see. It's overall insane to imply that Willow had a better character development lol. She actually regressed throughout the show, while Xander grew, and while Buffy still regards Willow as her best friend, it's pretty obvious that Xander is the one she looks to when things get hairy, especially due to the events of the end of Season 6.
I've read through all the replies here and it basically boils down to people bashing on teenage Xander, where he had a creepy nice guy personality for the first two seasons and then grew out of it. You want real problematic masculinity? Hell, the show already shows us in the The Trio. Xander never was anywhere near as problematic as Warren or even Johnatan in that regard. Also his relationship with Anya, which had their problems on both sides. The point of their song on Once More With Feeling is that there were problems with both sides, but folks act like Xander was single handedly sabotaging the relationship.
Here here! I wish all the people that bash Xander over his first 2-3 seasons of immaturity and jealousy would be able to see that through all that, he showed more courage and heart and loyalty and commitment to his friends, through his own insecurities and heartbreaks then anyone in the show. Right till the end, even losing an eye rushing into battle with no abilities at all.
Comparing him to all the other main characters (minus Buffy) I don't understand why there's a hate thread made of Xander 10 times more than anyone else... It is getting old.
Dude, enough with the false equivalency. You keep pulling up these bad things that other characters have done and it sounds like you're saying "These other characters have done way worse so Xander isn't that bad in comparison." Everyone agrees that The Trio are toxic masculinity embodied. Yes, we are all aware that Willow straight up murdered Warren in rage over her grief. We are all aware that Willow's drug problem put Dawn in real danger. No one is arguing that her actions are anything less than reprehensible. The common thread between fan favorite characters who've killed like Spike, Willow, Faith, and Angel is that they are all shown over long periods of time to feel guilt, remorse, and make deliberate attempts to atone for their heinous acts. Their actions in the past shape their relationships in the future. There are consequences. The show goes to great lengths to try and rehabilitate these characters.
Xander's passive aggressive nature, insecurity, and straight up idiocy are rarely met with more than a slap on the wrist. And before anyone goes twisting my words, I said "rarely" not "never." Like, you'd think that after six years of fighting alongside the Slayer you'd probably learn to not tinker with magic you don't understand. Nope. Xander wants fun and happiness for his wedding so accidentally summons Sweet to Sunnydale, admits to it at the end of the episode, and he didn't even get guff for it. Not to mention his wedding, purposely hiding that Willow was attempting the soul curse again, cheating on Cordelia, literally blackmailing Amy to cast a love spell on Cordelia (that's a two-for-one!), lying about amnesia surrounding his hyena possession, all the crap he gave Anya about her past despite knowing exactly who she was when they started dating, somehow remaining friends with Oz after cheating with Willow, and not to mention the extreme hypocrisy of him dating a former vengeance demon while giving Buffy crap for literal years about dating a vampire with a soul. He gets let off the hook for most of these with barely any consequence. The biggest consequence he faces, the dissolution of his engagement, gets swept under the rug and he gets to try reconciling with Anya.
I've heard all of your arguments before from people who like Xander and it all boils down to "whataboutism" and "boys will be boys/teens will be teens." I don't know if you're actually trying to ask a question in good faith or if you just want to convince others that you're right.
Xander is a jealous, petty teen guy in high school who doesn't take rejection well. In a world with magic, he's done some pretty stupid things to try to either get over heartbreak or get even with someone. Stupid stupid stuff, from a 16-18 year old. But ya teens will be teens is a thing in our world and in the Buffyverse.
The thing you're obsessed with is him not having to face repercussions over some of his decisions and according to you he shows no character arc/growth.
I mean that's just wrong and you know it is. He's 90% a different person after the high school years. He might not get a full season arc like Willow or Spike do, but he's also not having to face consequences of killing/raping/mentally abusing people and trying to end the world.
Xander and Anya as a couple were terrible. They were written as a comedic mis-match and that's all they ever would be. Xander has a former mass murderer throw herself naked at him as a lonely 18 year old almost virgin and just works at a relationship with her. Someone who barely gives 2 shits about anyone but herself and her man and is rude and awful to everyone else. Yet Xander tries to work to a life with her. Gets a good career and place for them. Proposes, even if he's way too young, hoping to break the cycle he grew up in. Than realized it was too quick and instead of entering into a marriage with that mindset, is able to stop it (even if it sucks it was so late).
He also admits he's not the hero of the story after and has immediate regrets over stopping the wedding and tries to express why he did it and asks for forgiveness and another chance to resume the relationship and maybe one day in the future take the marriage step when he and she is for sure ready for it. But Anya decides to go back to her mass murdering ways because she was wronged again.
Xander still fights side by side with his friends. Saves the world again and his best friend (Willows) life. Then fights with Buffy while fixing her place and helping build training equipment for the gang. Sleeps on sofas and risks his life (and nearly dies) every day with no abilities, to protect a group of girls he absolutely does not have to do that for and his friends. And the world...
I think the "I don't know if you're actually trying to ask a question in good faith or if you just want to convince others that you're right." question you should be asking yourself.
I've noticed a lot of those who hate on Xander overlook the actions of the characters they love like Faith Willow and Spike but villainize Xander for doing things not even close to being as bad. Every single character that had more than an episode or two did horrible or harmful things to others.
You see it all the time Xander is villainized for his crush on Buffy but than Willow crush on Xander its aww poor Willow. She shouted at Xander for dating someone else that was not her cried in bathroom stall when she already had a boyfriend herself told him he had severe emotional issues because he dared to date Cordelia and not her.
Anything else aside, Cordelia was literally their childhood bully, her reaction to them kissing not that long after the status quo sort of shifts but only in relation to literal life and death, didn't have to have anything to do with Willow's crush - and she was right. Cordy at that point from their perspective had proved that at a baseline she didn't want the whole town destroyed by violent evil, she had not done any work to make up for or even acknowledge her treatment of them their entire lives. The things Cordy says about Xander in public with casual cruelty and total lack of regard for his family situation being real and not a punchline of stereotypes do mean that him kissing her at that point and not having talked about anything is extremely unhealthy.
And for the record, Willow is my least favorite character. I have literally written essays on issues with her character and personally, I freely admit I hate her so much I get emotional about it at times because the show overall and underlying things it's about are very meaningful to me. I also have no motivation to hate Xander due to some virtue signaling feminist cabal either. I don't like him either but I swear to anything I can, I simply watched the show and did not like him, in a vacuum, and I still do not.
The above about Willow's "gross emotional problems" line is simply true. You are twisting it.
Her handling of her crush on Xander is also completely different from Xander's of Buffy. Willow deals with it internally while Xander both puts the ball in Buffy's court and lashes out at her for not reciprocating and even not to Buffys face makes possessive comments and shows that he feels he should be with her and is somewhat angry at her for it not coming to pass. Willow mostly just pines and crying in a bathroom alone is not the same thing as the times Xander was openly confrontational or jealous with Buffy.
I was a fan of Xander, even though he could be really annoying.. No lie, I met Nicolas Brendan. It was a group thing, we went bowling, and yah, he was nice, but then his little groupy female hoes came, and he didn't give a crap about his guests. Most people left right after the game because they were so disappointed by his behavior. He also had some kids there that he let down. If he didn't think with his dick and wasn't on massive amounts of drugs, people would have liked him. I feel kinda bad for the guy. He had his small day of fame and couldn't really do anything with it after, but he tried to live off what he had left. Which is most people on Buffy. If you knew Nicolas Brendan, you could see a lot of the real person in Xander.. except he is not a hero.
i don't hate Xander, do i feel he could have been more supportive and/or mature at times...definitiley. But we do have to remember that firstly; girls tend to mature faster than boys in general and TV shows often play to such stereotypes. Secondly he is one of the ONLY characters with no real powers or even great qualities for much of the TV show and even once he gets them the ones he has aren;t used often (such as the military knowledge after Halloween) or standing out more as the "guy who listens and sees everything" among the group as he said to Dawn. Don;t get me wrong he had soem real bad call moments liek not supporting Buffy to help stop Angel. But he also really gave Buffy the support she needed at the beginning of Season 4 as well when even Willow couldn't be assed to help. I may be coming on a bit strong with this one but i don't liek people who use things liek "College or university" and wanting to be smart and gain knowledge to justify not helping a friend when they need it and Willow is guilty of that on more than one occasion. I never went to University and that is because i hold a distaste towards that whole way of life. Some people seem to have this mentality that everyone in a show liek Buffy has to have powers or be heroic...there can;t be any "normal" people...who have faults or make mistakes...Xander keeps the show grounded IMO. He's not perfect no...but his loyalty to Buffy is unbreakable. The only whiny people who dislike Xander are people (probably women) who think he is too much like a stereotype guy...well HELLO he is a teen guy...what do you expect? And as i said TV shows always use stereotypes. My opinion is further supported by a few web videos i saw recently; some people, especially women, can superfically judge a guy so fast it makes me sick...they hear two words come out of his mouth and they have already decided they don;t like him and it's like trying to move Heaven and Earth to change their opinion. Oh and finally Xander comes from a really difficult family background...if i had a family as horrible as his i would be moody and irritable as well sometimes.
It basically boils down to the more popular characters getting a past for things that they do and him not. You will make the argument that yeah he made mistakes, but he’s not the worst character in the show even amongst the main characters. A lot of the issue comes from the fact that a lot of people have purist attitudes towards some characters, but not towards others. it ends up being a giant double standards problem, and he happens to be the character that people like the least so he gets the dumping from everybody who applies those double standards. Leaving Anya at the altar is one of the best examples because he literally had to go through the emotional toll of witnessing himself murder her. Even finding out that is an illusion later that still does massive damage to somebody. It would’ve been extremely unrealistic from a psychological perspective if he had gone through with the wedding after what happened during that episode.
I don't know how people can even watch the show let alone love it, while hating one of the most significant characters in the show. I love Xander as a character. He's the most grounded and realistic representation of a person. You've definitely been a Xander at certain points in life.
I definitely think his character is held to an extremely unfair standard compared to pretty much all the other characters. I cringe when people say it's because, "He's a Joss Whedon insert" as if Joss Whedon didn't pour aspects of himself into all the characters....he created. It's a cop out response when you point out the obviously more severe immoral behavior of other fan favorite characters.
I said this in a recent comment, but I guarantee most people that hate Xander, probably have a lot more in common with the character than they would like to admit.
People have said it well enough. You either see how toxic he is, and how insulting and rude he is whenever he talks down to Buffy. Apparently that stuff didn’t bother you or you didn’t even notice it. Dude has super incel energy
Most of the criticisms focus on Xander as he was in seasons 1&2, when he is admittedly insufferable but ignoring years of growth that followed. The key issue is fans can’t relate to mass murdering vampires or world ending threats, but we all know a clingy creep. It’s the same reason Delores Umbridge is hated more than Voldemort.
Xander is by no means a horrible person, but because the narrative is so forgiving of his wrongdoings it makes him an insufferable character to watch. Sure, he never tries do end the world and hasn't killed thousands of people, but even Buffy is taken to task more often and with more vitriol than Xander is. It's not so much the fictional person but the way he is depicted that we despise.
I think the problem is that he's the example of the nice guy trope that was rampant in media at the time. People are viewing it through a modern lens and it didn't age well. Xander has flaws galore but he's held to a higher standard than everyone else.
Willow mind wiped her girlfriend on the regular. Meh.
Angel lusts for a minor. Meh.
Giles murders Ben. Meh.
Buffy "killed" Ted. Meh
Xander left Anya at the alter. Pitchforks and torches.
He is a nuanced character but people make snap decisions because he's a guy and not the main love interest. I honestly don't get the "Xander Slander"
Buffy made great strides in female representation but it also broke the mould in male representation. Xander is shown to be the product of a broken home, sleeping on the lawn, possibly beaten as a child. His nightmare sequences are filled with fears of not being “Man enough.” Xander desperate attempts to overcompensate in early seasons are cringy but he grows beyond his damage. One of the finest character arcs In The show
One of my biggest complaints about Xander is how little arc he got. He's a perv who treats women poorly in season 1, barely ever gets called out on it, and persists through basically the whole show. He gets a couple powerful episodes that imply major character growth, like The Zeppo, but immediately goes right back to acting selfish and impulsive in the vast majority of his interactions. Imagine if any of the girls had summoned Sweet, it would have been a source of ongoing angst and drama - but it's Xander who did it and spent literally the entire episode lying to their faces about it while people died, and everyone just waves it off because by that point they've learned not to expect any better from him. And that's him in season 6. When exactly does he get this arc?
I remember Xander getting a lot of hate back when I first became a fan of Buffy in the 2000s. Back then, it was largely because the fandom primarily consisted of girls in their teens and early twenties. Xander was a beta male who loathed the lead female's dark, sexy love interest (first Angel, then Spike) - and, for a fandom with that demographic in that era, this was an unforgivable sin. Ron received the same treatment from Harry Potter fans who wanted Hermione to end up with Malfoy (fanon Malfoy, after all, was essentially Spike). Jacob would later get the same from Twilight fans.
Nowadays, a lot of the Xander hate seems to come from the fact that some of his behaviour is toxic. Which it is. But... all the characters on the show have their flaws. Xander seems to get a harder time from the fans than characters like Spike and Faith, because they're badass.
Yes he shouldn’t have left her at the altar and he didn’t always take her side - sometimes in a condescending way.
But she strong armed him into a relationship. She did the nagging girlfriend thing about getting the nice apartment. She also didn’t communicate to him about her concerns either (it’s the point of their song in OMWF after all). Their relationship was all about her needs - she even reflects on that after they break up that she used him as she had Olaf and Vengeance to stop having to get to know herself.
The whole point is that they would have ended up resenting each other because they didn’t know how to communicate with each other.
Xander had two options on the wedding day as he saw it. Break her heart now or do it slowly and more cruelly over a longer time. He chose the lesser of two evils. It should never have got that far though and that’s on both of them.
Zander for me was the glue that held the scooby gang together, his love was a selfish love, a love only for his closest friends, he gave up his dignity, his hopes and even limbs to save his friends and he was always there when his friends needed to mend broken hearts, teen problems and even windows But I bet you never noticed a key detail in season 4 episode hush, the clue lies in the bell tower when buffy gets her voice back and screams, did you notice a small detail, never seen anyone mention or comment on it over the years either?
As Riley broke the box and released everyone's voices, take a close look at Sarah's bottom teeth, in the scream scene, she has all teeth in between her 2 canines but after the scene Riley and buffy look at each other, it is a close up of Sarah, now look at her bottom teeth to the left of her right canine.
Agreed. I mean I get it - held up against the rubric of today a character like Xander would never be written except as a horrible example of the worst kind of guy.
But as a child of the 70’s and teen in the 80’s, he’s pretty much like a lot of guys were - amplified for “tv”.
And quite frankly I feel like the writers (or Joss) did him dirty with some lines over the years that I just don’t think aligned with what a good friend he was when things really mattered.
One example - When he and Cordy are together the very idea that he’d be drooling and panting after Faith was absurd - I mean c’mon…he landed an absolute goddess in Cordelia.
I watched the show when it was on the air, and I never liked Xander that much. Don't get me wrong- he bothers me more now, but he really annoyed me 25 years ago. Also, we know that he's Joss Whedon's self-insert character, so it makes sense that Xander's brand of masculinity would be on the toxic side.
True, I know. I just always felt like Joss worked hard to out all the shitty bad stereotypes of a dude into Xander but then also make him the loyal good guy friend. Always clashed a bit for me…
Big facts on that last bit, it boggled my mind, why he was making a big deal out of faith when cordelia was, yeah, a very, very beautiful girl granted, this is coming from somebody who absolutely appreciates what he has..
I love Xander as a character but he had a lot of flaws. Like when he didn’t tell Buffy Willow could restore Angel and then he dogged her out the next season for leaving. Him leaving Anya at the altar was cruel but I really overlook his misdeeds because he goes through a lot with demons and he makes up for it by doing his part in the gang and overall he just plays a big brother role for them.
Xander's issues are not glaring, they are subtle. Xander has no ambition or motivation. He puts no effort into anything, not even his friendships. He takes advantage of Willow as he knows she will help him skate by in school. He doesn't put any effort into his relationship with Cordelia and then cheats on her. Even after graduation he kind of lays around until he has to do something. Then there's Buffy who has the weight of the world on her shoulders. She has to sneak out to hunt monsters, keep who she really is a secret from her mother, try to pass high school, and have some semblance of a normal life and train. She has to make life and death decisions every day as a TEEN. And all Xander does is tear her down, judge her and criticize her. And WHY? Because he can't get in her pants! He has no responsibilities and he criticizes every move she makes. He's an asshole.
He's literally the boss of a crew of skilled workers in season 6 and onward.
No effort into his friendships?
He risks his life every single day to help his friends you know, stay alive?
He saves Buffy's life in Season 1 finale. He saves her life (possibly) in the hospital from Angel. He helps save her life from the cult in season 2. He saves her life in Go Fish season 2 episode. He saves the world in season 3 (the zeppo). He breaks into the initiative a bunch of times with Buffy. He has a vampire live with him and I'm only in season 4 and done making a point.
But keep forgetting all this stuff cuz he didn't take rejection well a few times....
I've never understood it either. All the characters have their faults that's what makes it an interesting show. Xander did some bad things but you know what he did not do, he didn't rape someone or murder someone. And no I'm not comparing him to Spike 😅
At the time I saw Xander as a goofy hapless romantic who quickly turned into the proverbial Nice Guy who quickly turns toxic, to outright abusive( not physically) and bitter toward Anya and Buffy because Buffy never wanted him.
At least Spike had somewhat of an excuse of being a good person -turned bad from vampirism on and off.
None of the characters ended up being great people, but they had unique circumstances(including demonic/witch influence), but Xander was just garden variety nice guy turned worse. It's interesting Joss had him written not unlike the actor who played him.
Females that can't get laid, then project by calling all guys that question them 'incels'.
That's why all the hate.
They're the loudest and have taken over the internet, finding anything to be offended by, especially when it's a man.
They lash out and blame men for all the problems in their life, especially if it's a man that isn't considered a chiseled god (like the main vampire guys, Angel and Spike). A man a little closer to their league , like Xander, an easy target that reminds them of the guy that should have slept with them, but didn't. A guy with a mouth, that dares to speak up and tell it like it is.
I just don’t like his personality. The jealousy, the crap attitude toward Angel & Spike. Often, he’s just an idiot. I will say that I do get the importance of his character and the things he does but some of it is over the top. Saving Buffy and then breaking Willow down back to herself were HUGE. He has his good points. My big issue is Dawn. Oi, the screeching.
Xander exhibits a lot of behaviour that is borderline toxic and at best pretty dodgy. The primary problem is not so much the behaviour - all the characters have flaws - but the show/ writers don't recognise Xander's behaviour as flawed and don't punish him narratively for it (eg look at Willow's arc for a comparision). In fact he is often rewarded by the narrative
I think most of the characters have tanked a bit, Willow seems to be more criticized now a days due to her using magic on Tara. Zander didn’t really have more time to shine and he seemed to have a bit of a problematic relationship with Anya. Sometimes it felt like he would make fun of her and was with her because she was there.
He was a great uncle to Dawn, but that was few instances. He seemed more sidelined to being overly critical of others. He might have been shoe horned into that role due to writing.
There are a lot "everyman in the super powered group" characters, and Xander for me falls in the "had so much potential to grow as a character but did not". Sokka from the show Avatar the last airbender is the gold standard of this trope for me: starts off a the sexist comic relief with competent tactical instincts, and grows though trial and error both as a person and as the not-superpoweres member of his group by seeking out teachers to become a master swordsman.
That a cartoon character in a 4 seasons kids show get better developed than Xander, who deff could have grown and matured more in 7 seasons feels like a misstep, and makes Xander less mature and less developed than the rest of the characters. And part of his immaturity is casual sexism that no one checks him about.
I thought we as a society agreed that this entire video is abysmal dogshit? One of the worst analysis videos I've ever seen from one of the worst video essayists on youtube
I'm sure most of the reasons have already been said. I'm not a Xander fan, but I try to be impartial as possible. I think most of the hate stems from his real persona, bleeding into his character, so it exacerbates the hate he gets. If you haven't looked into him. He batters women. He's been arrested multiple times for domestic violence. He's a junkie and an alcoholic as well. He's not in a good place today and hasn't been in two decades. So it's very difficult for many people, and I don't blame them, to separate the two.
Its why sometimes, it's hard to go back and enjoy a show because a character you liked, is horrific in real life. That happens to me when I watch Smallville, because I absolutely loved Chloe, but Chloe aka Allison Mack was involved in the NXIVM scandal. It becomes hard to separate the art from the artist.
It seemed like before they went to college Xander was everyone’s buddy. Then they made the character resentful and angry. It was a strange way to go with the character. Buffy’s sex life is not his business and what he did at the wedding was horrible.
For me? He's a bootleg chandler. Also? It felt like he was there for the early will they wont they with the vampire vs human dynamic, then he just kind of drifted around not doing much of significance or interest. Mainly side plot stuff.
I think the reason why people hate Xander is not because of the actual reasons they make it's because of the actor hat portrayed him and it's because he's t effectively the sexual male teenager trying to explore High School but also to cope with the fact that he and his best friend may die at any point and people don't like that especially females because it doesn't fit with this feminist show but sometimes it's not about the main character it's about the side characters is important that there's at least a male character that is relatable to the male audience that is some big hot vampire or love interest
Ive rewatched this show in its entirety at very different points in my life.
My first watch was while it was airing and i was a tween… during my teenage years i absolutely adored Xander, he was one of my favorite characters.
I watched it the second time in my mid 20s and my perspective changed. Not drastically but i found him annoying at times.
My third watch was during my early 30s and even tho i can understand a lot of it was the product of its time, i found him incredibly selfish and highly unlikeable.
This is to say that i think perception changes with maturity and i dont mean that everyone who find him unlikable is mature and others who dont, are not.
I mean that our experiences in life change our perception of the world and i have met many men like him at different stages of my life and the vast majority of teenage boys that acted like him, become adult men i rather not associate with.
I struggle with Xander post Whedon's downfall because Xander was his self insert and we really see patterns in how Whedon treated people through Xander and his sometimes mean hearted behaviours towards buffy and willow. The Dawn relationship (capitalised on in the comics) is also just yuck yuck yuck when you remember the stuff about Michelle not being allowed in the same room as Whedon.
That said, There's a lot to love about Xander and I don't think he is fully compromised. I think he was done dirty in Whedon's quest to ensure no one in his worlds is ever happy. I wish Xander had simply ended up happy with Anya and perhaps retired from the madness, as that seemed to be the natural conclusion to his character.
The Zeppo is one of my favourite episodes and really, all the dumb hijinks episodes where he got into trouble just worked. both to ground the show and remind you of the normal human perspective, which is needed in a show full of supers, and to just bring in more low stakes levity.
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