r/Charcuterie • u/pottygob1234 • 13h ago
Failed terrine
Mushy texture, bleeding colours. Fed it to the dogs and chickens. Michelin star pet food
r/Charcuterie • u/redshoes • Aug 06 '19
I have been looking through a list of all of the posts in /r/Charcuterie looking for some threads with good information to cobble together a beginners reading list for the sub. I have noticed (and you probably have noticed too!) we have a lot of the same questions pop up from people wanting to get into the hobby of producing homemade cured and air dried meats. We also have a lot of firsts! We have had just over 6k posts in the 7 years this sub has been around, 11% of them contain the word 'first'.
And duck prosciutto is really, really, popular.
This isn't a big sub and self posts don't get a lot of views or generate a lot of discussion. So the purpose of this thread is collate some of the community expertise into one place for the people who come here with questions about their first projects.
If anyone wants to expand on any of these points feel free to do so and I will update them. If there is a popular beginner question or resource I have missed or something is wrong let me know in the comments. Hopefully together we can build this into a fairly complete beginners resource.
This is not intended to be a detailed step by step guide or a substitute for doing your own research.
A curing/drying chamber is an area that creates the ideal temperature and humidity conditions for drying whole muscles or salami. The exact temperature and humidity will vary by preference to but ranges from refrigerator temperatures (less than 4C/39F) to 15C/59F (Staphylococcus aureus can multiply and produce toxins at temperatures above 15.6C (60.08F) so it is important to keep your curing chamber below this temperature). Generally they are kept at at 10-15C (50-59F) and 60-80% humidity. As most of us don't live in an area that has these ambient conditions, we need to create an artificial environment that does.
Most people do this by modifying a refrigerator or freezer to run warmer than usual by interrupting the cooling cycle with a temperature controller, and using humidifiers/dehumidifiers to keep the humidity at the required level. A higher humidity is preferred at the start of drying, especially when making sausages and cased whole muscle as it helps prevent case hardening, allows the casing to adhere to the meat (if the humidity is too low the casing will dry out, creating air pockets between the casing and the meat), and encourages mold growth.
The exact setup is going to vary depending on the ambient conditions in the room you will be keeping the chamber and your climate - for example extremes of heat may cause the cooling cycle in the refrigerator to run too often, causing case hardening. You might need to run the AC or consider packing everything down over the summer months. Ideally you don't want the cooling cycle to run much more than 5 minutes in every half an hour. Some airflow is required for the moisture to evaporate from the surface of the meat, so if the refrigerator powers on too infrequently, you might need to use a small fan on a timer to make sure there is some air movement inside the chamber.
So as you can see the temperature and humidity readings are only one part of the conditions inside the chamber, something like a sensorpush can give you a better picture of what is going on.
Although the more professional looking chambers have holes drilled into the side of the appliance for the humidity/temp probes and appliance power cords, it isn't essential. You can pass the probes through the door seal.
Links to previous examples of curing chambers and discussions can be found at the bottom of this post.
Periodically weigh the meat, and pull it from the chamber when it has reached the desired dryness (water weight loss). This will differ depending on the product. Fat contains less water than muscle and therefore doesn't need to lose as much weight, so a fatty duck breast or pancetta will have a different texture at 35% weight loss than lean muscle like a loin or bresaola. A figure of 35% is given as a rule of thumb for many recipes, however most people find this too 'raw' in texture and will take it further - to 40-45%. With practice you will get a feel what you prefer.
Case hardening is caused by low humidity, or too much airflow within the drying environment. The water in the meat needs to travel outwards from the middle to the surface, where it evaporates. If the humidity is too low or there is too much airflow the surface will dry out too quickly (harden) and the internal moisture is no longer able to exit. In extreme cases this can cause rotting within the meat. You can tell by texture when squeezing the muscle - there should be a bit of 'give' - if it feels completely hard (but hasn't lost much weight), you may have a problem with case hardening.
Sometimes uneven drying can be remedied by vac sealing the meat and refrigerating it for some time, but in extreme cases or if the meat has spoiled inside, it will not be salvageable. It is best to prevent it getting out of control by monitoring your curing chamber conditions and regularly checking on the state of the products inside.
Previous /r/Charcuterie post showing case hardening: https://www.reddit.com/r/Charcuterie/comments/5jxypy/first_cured_meat_lost_more_then_35_but_definitely/
Most experienced people here would say yes, especially as a beginner and when making salami, smoked products, or rolled pancetta. Nitrites inhibit the growth of clostridium botulinum, the bacteria that creates the botulism toxin. C. botulinum requires an anaerobic (without oxygen) environment to grow and produce the toxin, and likes moist and warm conditions - so basically the inside of a sausage or salami being hung at temperatures above refrigeration. Botulism should be taken very seriously.
As the botulism bacteria are only found on the outside of the meat and do not become a problem until they are introduced into the inside through cutting or grinding, nitrites/nitrates are not essential for whole muscle cures, however many people choose to use them anyway as they provide other benefits such as improving colour, and slowing rancidity and spoilage.
What is the difference between Prague Powder #1 and Prague Powder #2
Prague Powder #1 contains 6.5% sodium nitrite (93.5% salt), and is used when the curing time is short, the product is to be smoked, or cooked or a cured flavour and colour is desired - for example bacon or ham. As the nitrites get quickly used up, if a product is to be air dried for longer, then Prague Powder #2 needs to be used, PP#2 contains 6.25% sodium nitrite and 4% sodium nitrate which eventually converts to nitrite. Think of PP#2 as a "slow release" curing salt. PP#2 should be used for all salami and for whole muscles that will be air dried.
It is important to use the correct curing salt for the application - sodium nitrate cannot be safely consumed until the nitrates have converted to nitrites, so PP#2 can only be used in products that will be air dried for a long time (weeks + months). Do not use PP#2 in fresh or cooked products.
As a general rule, both Prague Powders are added at 0.25% of the starting weight of the meat. There are also European style curing salts such as "Peklosol" that have a much lower concentration of nitrite (0.6%), and they are used as a replacement for all of the salt in the recipe (around 3%).
Curing salts are often dyed pink to distinguish them from regular salt, and therefore can sometimes referred to as "pink salt". They are not interchangeable with Himalayan "pink salt" which is rock salt with a natural pink colour.
The oft-repeated mantra about mold here is white powdery = good, white and fuzzy or green = wipe it off, black = throw it out without question. This is overly cautious, although white powdery mold is desired, some green molds are okay (the problem is figuring out yours is the good or bad kind...), and a small amount of black mold isn't necessarily enough to justify abandoning a project. One way around the mold issue is to use a commercial freeze dried mold culture (such as bactoferm-600). This way you can cultivate good mold growth early on as it will prevent less desirable molds taking over. Undesirable mold can grow out of control very quickly if the conditions are conducive (high humidity, low airflow), so it is best to keep an eye on things, and use a 50/50 solution of water and vinegar to wipe off any undesirable mold that starts to form. Even black mold is salvageable if it is caught early enough.
If freeze dried Penicillum Nagliovese (Bactoferm-600) is not available where you live, Penicillum Candidum (the mold found on the rind of white bloomed cheese) can be substituted. You can also try hanging some commercial salami with white mold to seed the chamber. I find it isn't necessary to reapply the Bactoferm-600 to everything - once a good level of growth is established it will spread around quite well by itself.
Meat that has been smoked before hanging will resist growing mold as smoking acidifies the surface slightly.
Here are some examples showing you that the mold issue isn't as clear cut as just colour: http://wedlinydomowe.pl/en/viewtopic.php?t=7840&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
We've seen some gnarly mold here over the years, some good discussions to read: https://www.reddit.com/r/Charcuterie/comments/9h103q/fil_insists_this_is_still_good_everything_ive/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Charcuterie/comments/500pn2/prosciutto_after_3_months_need_help/
When you are starting out it is important to follow a recipe, and make sure you understand the reasoning behind the process, and the purpose of the ingredients. Do more research before you create your own recipe or modify anything. This isn't like other kinds of fermentation where there isn't too much that can go wrong - incorrectly cured meat has the potential to make people very sick. Even more so for salami (which is why we suggest whole muscle cures for beginners). Don't be afraid to start small, there is nothing worse than making a huge batch of a product only to have something go wrong in the process and have to throw it out. Be patient, this is slow food after all.
Want to try a bigger project but not ready to commit to building a chamber? Have a look at UMAI Bags
Also check out /r/CuringChamber for more examples.
r/Charcuterie • u/redshoes • 23d ago
What projects are you working on at the moment? Have a small problem but don't want to create a post? Found a Charcuterie related meme? Just want to chat? This is r/Charcuterie's monthly free discussion thread.
For beginner questions and links don't forget to check out the FAQ (https://www.reddit.com/r/Charcuterie/comments/cmy8gp/rcharcuterie_faq_and_beginners_guide_to_cured_and/) .
r/Charcuterie • u/pottygob1234 • 13h ago
Mushy texture, bleeding colours. Fed it to the dogs and chickens. Michelin star pet food
r/Charcuterie • u/brodka126 • 21h ago
I forgot to take pictures, but I deboned a lamb loin, covered the meat side in spices, rolled it, salted the skin and left in the fridge for 24 h. Then I roasted it at 130 Celsius until it reached 71°, I let it cool down for half an hour and then I blasted it at 250° until the skin was crispy.
It's pretty good for a first try, might cook it to a higher internal temp next time to break down the collagen, and dry the skin better
r/Charcuterie • u/davidjoseph10 • 1d ago
This Viandes de Grisons, also known as bündnerfleisch, after forty days of drying.
Originally prepared from a 3 1/2 pound cut of beef shoulder, since eye round is not available as a kosher cut without expensive sciatic nerve removal (called porging), with a dry applied cure of 2.25% salt, .25% curing salt, ground juniper, dried thyme, rosemary, and savory, sealed in vacuum bags for a penetration cure of more than 50 days, then sealed in a UMAI dry aging membrane bag and alternately dried with silicon dioxide drying packs in a refrigerated, sealed Tupperware and pressed in a book press, and then in nested bread loaf pans, I do have a wine fridge that I thought I would use for a higher temperature dry, but I think it case hardened, so this is the inspection.
It’s vacuum sealed in an impermeable bag for equilibration - i’ll do that for another week-and then I’ll put it back into the UMAI membranes for the final dry.
Sliced on my manual rotary slicer. Any thoughts?
r/Charcuterie • u/Chiefkeif300 • 16h ago
I made some venison snack sticks (buck sticks) and they turned out great. Smoked them until about 160 internal and they are cured with Prague #1. They have high temp cheddar, truffle salt and garlic as the flavoring. My question is, I’m going on an elk hunt and want to take some but from what I gather they are more of a fresh stick and need to stay refrigerated because it still has moisture. Can I thaw out some to dehydrate and they will be fine? As far as I can tell, there shouldn’t be any difference considering they are cured?
r/Charcuterie • u/butch7455 • 1d ago
We made 2600 grams of hard salami, used 100 mm fibrous casing. I used 2 guys and a cooler recipe for the hard , and the 3 smoked Hungarian salami. They were cased in 55-65 beef middles. I also made 2500 grams of Matt the butchers Medi salami, it was also cased in the beef middles. All the salami are in a fermenting chamber. I’ll update you all when it’s ready.
r/Charcuterie • u/Smallbrownbike87 • 2d ago
Pork, pancetta, koji cured antelope heart, salami orphans, grilled carrot, and lacto fermented kohlrabi, set in black garlic and caraway aspic. Baked in a Lardo crust (lardough, as I like to call it).
r/Charcuterie • u/c9belayer • 1d ago
Typically, I fold one end as small as I can and jam a 1/2" hog-ring on it to close the casing, and it works okay, but I was wondering if there's any special way to fold or twist the end before hog-ringing it? I'm NOT talking about closing the casing after stuffing... I'm talking about BEFORE stuffing, when the casing is flat and dry.
r/Charcuterie • u/No_Western4586 • 2d ago
Pretty sure this is spoiled =(??
r/Charcuterie • u/bobicool • 2d ago
Hi all,
I'm looking to buy a PH meter for making salami at home. Ideally, it's one with a reasonable price (ideally less than 200 CAD), has a replaceable electrode because buying a new PH meter every 1-2 years gets a bit expensive (so that rules out the Hanna Meat PH Meter), and is made by a reputable brand. I've looked around, and found the Extech PH100 (and PH110), which looks promising:
(Of course, I also need to acquire the buffer solutions).
In the description, it says that it works well for solid and semi-solid applications. So I would guess it's good for meat, but since it doesn't have a spear tip (like the popular Apera PH probe, which is quite expensive in Canada, or the Hanna meat probe) I wanted to be sure it would be ok.
But, if anyone has other recommendations (other than PH strips) then I would also be interested !
Thanks.
r/Charcuterie • u/No-Elephant4615 • 3d ago
Hi everyone...so here is my pork ham after 12 months of drying...it is pretty good but I have any questions? Firstly it has turned a little green on the surface just a light layer of mold nothing to worry about for me? So I lightly brushed it On the other hand, with the heatwave that hit I noticed that he had oozed a little fat from the layer of skin?.....he is in a cellar with a cool temperature but it was very, very hot......
r/Charcuterie • u/Nervous_Promotion_43 • 3d ago
Hi all, i hope you can help?
I started a 3kg bone in prosciutto december last year using the dry bag and a recipe that came with my curing salts.
Ive reached 2.3kg and stalled any weight loss, what should i do?
r/Charcuterie • u/Low_Investigator1497 • 4d ago
Hi, I’m a big fan of prosciutto, especially the pre-sliced kind, but the price makes it hard to enjoy regularly. Does anyone know of a good, more affordable alternative? Or maybe a place to buy sliced prosciutto for cheaper? I’ve tried Schwarzwälder Schinken as a substitute, but it didn’t quite do it for me. It’s too smokey.
I’m in Belgium if that helps :)
r/Charcuterie • u/Puzzled-Study-3550 • 4d ago
Good day! I am wondering if Umai bags would work in a salami cabinet environment (higher temps and higher humidity)? Umai bags were designed to be used in refrigerator environments (near freezing temps and low humidity). I still have a few Umai kits, but now I already have a proper chamber.
r/Charcuterie • u/user17382021 • 5d ago
I have a batch of salami curing, but the weather is starting to warm up (southern hemisphere).
I tried the first salami last week and it was great st about 35% weight loss - but want to take them further to about 40% for a firmer texture.
Winter is fast disappearing, with the first 20c days happening this weekend.
Has anyone been in this position? Is it safe to let them finish curing in a warmer climate seeing they are already pretty far along the journey? The slowest drying ones are around 30%.
Thanks
r/Charcuterie • u/mushkind • 6d ago
worked out pretty well, pulled at 35% loss, glad i didnt sear it, smells amazing and melts in the mouth unlike amything i had before, will probably do more of those cheap cuts when i can get them at a nice price. now into equalizing
r/Charcuterie • u/Rice__owls • 7d ago
Get a nicely marbled piece of TX Wagyu on sale and decide to cure. Cut into 2 cylinders about 2.5-3.5in diameter and started an equilibrium cure with 3% salt and 0.25% of Prague 1. Now that I think of it perhaps Prague 2 is a better choice give the expected time. Is there anything that can be done at this point (has been equilibrating for 4 days now). Once cured, what would be the suggested spice mixture before hanging? I am thinking Armenian baba ganoush for one piece, but want something else for another. Any ideas? What is the recommended weight loss percentage for this (I think its probably 25% fat or so).
r/Charcuterie • u/foodandbeerguy • 7d ago
1221 g eye of round, 27.43 g salt, 18.2g sugar,3g cure #2, 4.84g black pepper, 2.42g fresh rosemary, 3.66g fresh thyme, 5 juniper berries. Going for 35-40% weight loss. Using an Umai bag for the drying
r/Charcuterie • u/spoonyvixen • 7d ago
I've had white fuzzy mold before that I wiped off on previous Pancetta experiments but this is first time I'm seeing some green mold which I'm unsure of. Is this batch a goner?
r/Charcuterie • u/letswatchmovies • 7d ago
I have a decent amount of experience in a home kitchen, but have never cured meat before. I have some pork belly, jowl, and loin that I would like to cure as simply as possible. I could maybe be convinced to buy a smoker if everyone yells at me that This Is The Way, but if I can make a delicious product using only seasonings, time, and my fridge, that would be ideal.
For example,
https://rivercottage.net/recipes/overnight-home-cured-bacon-chops/
has caught my attention as a good place to start. Do you agree, or would you recommend something else?
If it is relevant, the pork is from an idaho pasture pig.
r/Charcuterie • u/Super-Scheme-9803 • 7d ago
I used 4quarts water to 6tsps of pink salt. Is it too much? It has been 2 days now. Can i still salvage the meat by soaking it in clean cold water to draw out the nitrite?
r/Charcuterie • u/macooperr • 9d ago
Two batches (half the full muscle each), fairly simple recipes, whilst I dial in methods and my chamber. Batch 1: 2.5% salt, 1% chilli flake, 1% black pepper; Batch 2: 2.5% salt, 0.5% garlic powder, 0.5% black pepper.
EQ cure, before being wrapped in beef bung, and fermented at 19 degrees for 24h, and air dried to 33, and 35% loss, respectively.
The weight loss stalled a bit -- likely due to the case hardening you see in the pictures. How bad is the case hardening? And how bad is the more "raw" looking innards?
Have put into vacuum bags to equalise for a couple of weeks.
r/Charcuterie • u/ChipsAuVinaigre_ • 8d ago
The thing is that I already ate a little of it before noticing that (I took the skin off) and I when i removed the etiquette I saw this.. It's liver sausage (saucisse de foie) im not sure of the english name I am very worried because these looks like larva
what should I do if its unsafe
r/Charcuterie • u/Fine_Anxiety_6554 • 10d ago
Two guys and a coolerbrecipem started March of 2024. 1st project I ever did.
r/Charcuterie • u/Salmon_Berries • 10d ago
I’ll be in Sicily for two weeks next week and would love any recommendations for salumerias. I know it’s offered all over, but if anyone has any recommendations for specific shops or vendors at markets, I’d love to hear them. We will be in Palermo, Cefalu, Castelvetrano, and Trapani. Or, any other producer recommendations… I know that’s like asking for a slice shop rec in NYC. We will check out a few small flour mills as well.
r/Charcuterie • u/Ok-Supermarket-6681 • 11d ago
Hi guys, those are my 2 beacon pices, cured with nitrite salt - a week for the small one and 11 days for the large one. Currently in my drying chamber on 11 degrees Celsius and 72% humidity. Do I have to worry about the green mold? It can be seen better on the small piece.