r/climbing • u/AutoModerator • 7d ago
Weekly Chat and BS Thread
Please use this thread to discuss anything you are interested in talking about with fellow climbers. The only rule is to be friendly and dont try to sell anything here.
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u/glempus 5d ago
Can't make a full post myself so I'd invite someone else to do it, but an update on that fatal autobelay incident in Sydney 4 years ago: https://www.ausleisure.com.au/news/court-levies-450000-in-fines-over-mans-death-at-sydney-rock-climbing-gym/
Total of about $450k in fines split between the company and its directors. Most relevant part about autobelays:
An inspection of the device he used by SafeWork NSW found a wear indicator on the lanyard had worn away and the lanyard was tightly jammed inside the auto-belay’s lanyard drum, meaning it couldn’t be easily unravelled.
There was also wear and tear to other parts of the auto-belay system including the eyelet which connected carabiners to lanyards and the carabiner gate was not fully closing as designed.
Debris had accumulated inside the auto-belay’s nozzle, which was also worn down.
District Court Judge Wendy Strathdee noted the auto-belay should have been inspected at least three times before Araya’s death, after its last formal in-house inspection in January 2020.
As reported by The Australian Business Network, the Court heard that the auto-belay had also been due for a major service three months before, which hadn’t been done.
There had been four previous entries from an inspection and maintenance log at the gym, which noted the auto-belay had issues not taking up slack in the lanyard for the last one to two metres of a climb.
The thing left unsaid there is that the gym had only just opened back up after COVID closures, so it's not like it was continuously being used while being overdue for service (though this is probably the same logic that the owners used to delay servicing, and look how that ended up).
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u/Leading-Attention612 4d ago edited 4d ago
Only $450,000 for a man's death??? The directors each had to personally pay only $85,000, which is probably less than a years salary for them, for negligence that killed another person? When there were 4 logs that something wasn't right with the device? I'd be considering role-playing Mario's brother if the victim was a family member of mine.
Damn, life is cheap is Australia. I guess if you have $85k lying around you could unclip your belay device and walk away while your climber is cruxing out.
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u/lectures 5d ago
She sent my project?
My own progress feels so small
Don't look at tick lists
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u/nofreetouchies3 5d ago
I feel this with an italicized "She".
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u/NailgunYeah 5d ago edited 5d ago
That's not a haiku
What makes you think that's okay?
Like what the heck dude
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u/Pays_in_snakes 5d ago
Climbed with an ohmega for the first time, and initial impressions from a gym session to test it out.
Pros:
- Very simple and easy to use, appears well-made and satisfying. Was easy to clip on and harder than a quickdraw to back-clip
- It is obvious that unless you really fuck it up, it does what it does without messing with the basic experience of lead climbing and at worst will do nothing; like the mitch hedberg joke about escalators failing to stairs, it fails to a quickdraw if it doesn't bite on a fall
- It added a very appropriate amount of resistance to climbers of different sizes that just made catching easier all around
Cons:
- While it's lighter than an Ohm, it isn't super light; it will make your rack meaningfully heavier if you're not replacing your ohm with it
- When I caught a climber lighter than me with it, it meaningfully changed the catch timing - when I jumped into the catch to soften it, the ohm had already taken a bite out of the fall, resulting in me giving myself a little slack between myself and the device and I, the belayer, fell back a little farther than I expected; I would not have wanted to learn this if I was on a belay with less than perfect footing outside, though a little practice will fix this.
- It was a little awkward to clean while lowering back to it. If you were climbing past it, it would make cleaning that bolt a little more time consuming, but wouldn't be tough once you did it once or twice.
- If you clean it while lowering to it, it is extremely easy to unclip it from the bolt and then drop it while it's still on the rope and send it zip-lining directly into your belayer's fingies; ask me how I know
Overall: worked as advertised and I could see it adding a meaningful bit of safety even without a weight differential in a situation like a lead fall while the climber is out of your view and your catch timing is imperfect.
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u/Thirtysevenintwenty5 5d ago
When I caught a climber lighter than me with it
Why the fuck......
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u/Pays_in_snakes 5d ago
In this case, just because we all wanted to take a fall on it to see how it felt, and he was the lightest among us. I could see it having a benefit to adding some braking to an unexpected fall that you catch imperfectly even without the weight difference and Edelrid and other reviewers certainly market it that way, though I don't know if that's enough to make it worth buying and using if you're not solving for the weight difference.
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u/Dotrue 5d ago
look at these nerds out here doing science lmao
(I'm joking, I would do the same thing to see what happens)
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u/Pays_in_snakes 5d ago
Like anyone's gonna spend all that money on one and not take a few practice whips!
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u/AnderperCooson 5d ago
Tommy Caldwell recently gave some tips on belaying lighter climbers with the Ohmega (and actually thinks it makes the process better for both partners): https://www.instagram.com/reel/DNYyS_syy_j/?igsh=MW9jN2NseWNzOTdqNQ==
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u/DustRainbow 4d ago
Bit peeved about the neox. I bought it because I have a thicker rope and wondered if it'd really work smoother than a gri-gri.
It was amazing for a while, but now dirt has collected in the pulley and it is absolutrly useless. I'm back to using the gri-gri with the same rope.
I understand that Petzl published a video recognizing the issue with some tips on how to tackle the issue. But honestly I'd rather not deal with this.
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u/NailgunYeah 4d ago
Grigri gang gang
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u/lectures 4d ago
But I like buying new things to fill the hole in my heart.
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u/DustRainbow 4d ago
This may have contributed ...
Tbh the better buy was a new rope, but I have a hard time justifying it because my old one is still usable?
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u/lectures 4d ago
but now you have an excuse to get a new rope. besides, you can gift the old one to some poor dirtbag and make them happy.
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u/lectures 3d ago
eat less. lift. hang. sleep.
the sending season is nigh
or just climb for fun?
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u/AnderperCooson 3d ago
These days I just hope
To see rock from a distance
The gym smells like feet
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u/Dotrue 3d ago
I await Fall sends
Endless rain, smoke, heat. Also...
fuck humidity.
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u/NailgunYeah 3d ago
Blaming conditions
You are weak, we are both weak
There is only weakness
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u/muenchener2 3d ago
The haikus are back.
Hurrah. I missed them sorely.
But what third line now?
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u/Thirtysevenintwenty5 3d ago
ink flows from the pen
the paper is stained with prose
adventure story3
u/0bsidian 3d ago
I’ve had less than a dozen outdoor climbing days this season. Adulting is hard.
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u/NailgunYeah 3d ago edited 3d ago
No lines... Is it possible to learn this power?
Not from a Jedi...
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u/lectures 3d ago edited 2d ago
new holds on spray wall
endurance work is so hard
where are all the jugs?
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u/Thirtysevenintwenty5 2d ago
Try climbing outside
Training on hundred foot walls
Makes a weak boy strong-1
u/Marcoyolo69 2d ago
The height of the wall Has nothing to do with the fitness Or endurance required to do it
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u/LichenTheChoss 6d ago
after a weekend of some intense trad climbing as a regular sport climber / boulderer, i'm even more convinced that most trad climbers are a completely different breed. i doff my cap
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u/lectures 6d ago
trad is super dangerous and stupid. nothing anyone says will convince me otherwise.
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u/Thirtysevenintwenty5 6d ago
Just say "I don't understand trad climbing" and at least you'll have a defensible position.
I know my gear is solid, because I put it there. When my gear is not solid, I make a choice between bailing off the climb or continuing on fully aware and accepting of the risk. I take my safety into my own hands and trust my skills and judgment.
Most sport climbers don't know their bolts are solid. They just trust them. They believe that because other people have climbed on them, they must be safe. If they weren't safe, someone would replace them. They place the responsibility of their safety and risk management in the hands of some theoretical stranger who is watching over them.
Which of those sounds more dangerous?
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u/lectures 6d ago edited 6d ago
Just say "I don't understand trad climbing" and at least you'll have a defensible position.
That's probably a more indefensible position than then one I'm taking.
How many people do I know who have been injured because a bolt failed (zero) compared to the number of whips people I know have taken on bolts (tens of thousands at least).
How many people do I know who have been injured because a piece blew or was just poorly positioned because they weren't thinking they'd fall (a few) compared to the number of whips people I know have taken on gear (a couple order of magnitudes fewer than on bolts).
Trad is dangerous and stupid. Far more dangerous and stupid than other commonly accepted dangerous and stupid things like bouldering or motorcycles.
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u/Waldinian 6d ago
Saying trad climbing is "dangerous and stupid" is really coming out swinging. Stop trying to antagonize people.
Sport climbing is dangerous too, I know 4 people have gotten serious injuries from sport falls. Everything is relative.
Why can't you just say that it's more risky than you're comfortable with instead of directly insulting trad climbers? You're obviously not going to persuade anyone like that.
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6d ago
I know several people who got some relatively shitty injuries taking what would be considered a safe sport climbing fall as well as people who witnessed catastrophic accidents (falling from the anchors and breaking one's back) that happened from people who overestimated the safety of sport climbing and introduced human error into the equation by being careless.
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u/Secret-Praline2455 6d ago
i know yall are having a good talk here but a psa for trad and sport climbers alike, new and old - please inspect bolts / anchors. Both styles may have fixed bolts for protection/descents/anchors etc. It is prudent to learn to inspect bolts as best as you can. Of course we cant know the full story of a stud in a hole but at least learning to inspect bolts from wedges to 5 piece to glue ins to some relics of the past.
pass it on, stay safe!
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u/Sens1r 6d ago
Trad is dangerous and stupid. Far more dangerous and stupid than other commonly accepted dangerous and stupid things like bouldering or motorcycles.
It really isn't, most of us climb trad well within our limits and in my experience ego isn't really a thing because we've all been humbled by easy shit like a low angle slab or a tiny roof.
Everything is dangerous if you don't take the time to understand and respect what you're doing. Motorcycles are close to the top of that list.
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u/LichenTheChoss 6d ago edited 6d ago
i mean... it scares the shit out of me. lots of stories yesterday of "this guy broke his leg twice; this other guy broke his back."
a lot of it comes with being bold, which is a quality i lack in my climbing (nor do i think i'll ever develop that kind of boldness at my age).
i still like it, the climbing style is so completely different... but while i clip 5.12's, i'll probably stick with <5.9 on gear for a long time.
i have nothing but respect for the trad daddies (and trad baddies; trad princess is insane in the best way)
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u/lectures 6d ago edited 6d ago
"this guy broke his leg twice; this other guy broke his back."
Uhhhh, I don't think I want to climb with these guys....
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u/CatLessi_kitty 6d ago
lol just place good gear dude .
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u/lectures 6d ago
that doesn't make it much less dangerous and stupid. no piece of gear is as good as a bolt. trad is terrifying.
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u/CatLessi_kitty 6d ago
I mean yeah that’s true. But you can hang a car off a cam . I feel like that’s in good enough territory
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u/lectures 6d ago
assuming the rock doesn't explode or the cam doesn't just slide out of the rock for no apparent reason. terrifying!
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u/Thirtysevenintwenty5 6d ago
I mean if you're scared of rock exploding you shouldn't be climbing on bolts either.
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u/CatLessi_kitty 6d ago
Rock exploding. Idk what kind of rock you are climbing on. Agree to disagree. Stay clipping bolts big dawg
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6d ago
That's route dependent. If you can always have a couple good pieces protecting a fall you're good to crank.
Dangerous possibly, stupid is really dependent on the climber, trad climbing can be very ingenious and safe. If you downclimb upon being unable to mitigate danger what you're doing is neither dangerous or stupid. At that point you can walk around the cliff and hang a toprope, find a different way up the wall that has protection, drill a bolt if the areas' etiquette allows for it or go have a beer on the beach. Protecting falls with cams and nuts is no different from protecting bouldering falls with a bunch of pads. There's a variety of tools to protect falls in climbing, if all you do is rely on bolts other people drilled you're limiting your experience of the craft.
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u/CatLessi_kitty 6d ago
Also in a crack system i could place a piece of gear every 6 inches if i wanted to. Therefore better than a bolt every 10 feet
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u/lectures 6d ago
so how many pieces of cam do you need to place if it's a 100 foot route? how do you know the crack won't open up and drop all the gears?
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u/CatLessi_kitty 6d ago
Depends on the route . You place more in harder sections and run it out on easier sections. But i would say a piece every 10-12 feet . So 8-10 pieces . And rock really doesn’t work that way. The crack won’t just open up
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u/lectures 6d ago
So you place a piece every 12 feet and fall 24 feet if you mess up placing one? Or you fall 48 feet if the first one falls out of the wall?
How did we go from gear every six inches to 50 foot falls so fast.
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u/CatLessi_kitty 6d ago
Yeah i mean it’s all a balancing act on how hard the route is, you could nest 3 pieces next to each other under a roof or run it out on 5. Easy terrain. I like it because you can make those choices.
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u/AnderperCooson 3d ago
Anyone know if the SLC World Cups have good bike parking? I'm going to the finals this weekend and I'm debating on bike vs. train because it looks like it's right across from the intermodal transit center.
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u/lectures 17h ago
son left for college
new trad partner needed now
apply with haiku
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u/Secret-Praline2455 2d ago
theres is a bouldering video i have seen posted here every so often if you can help me find it.
It is a handful of folks having a send train on this sand stone (maybe usa south west idk im out west) and they get progressively more stoked as they are sending. Certainly a contagious psych clip. thanks fellow climbers.
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u/DustRainbow 18h ago
I've never felt so insecure about my climbing whilst also climbing (and sending) the hardest I've ever climbed
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u/sheepborg 12h ago
That's how it goes yeah? I laughed when one of the route setters said what they thought my rope project's crux boulder grade equivalent was because I thought they were just pranking me with a featherbag.
My advice for whatever that's worth is to not forget to engage with play. Come up with some silly challenges of zero consequence in the form of 'I wonder if I can do X thing with Y limitation' to remind yourself that it's all arbitrary and the measures of difficulty serve only as a rough descriptor of a route not moral value. Stuff like that.
Working hard for your goals is cool and all. Worth appreciating. But dont let those goals impose a permanent expectation upon you.
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u/lectures 4d ago
My day two haiku
syllables so hard to count
can i keep this up?
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u/Dotrue 4d ago
Art cannot be forced,
nor syllable symmetry.
Bash trad climbing more?
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u/Secret-Praline2455 3d ago
want to get in shape
Oh, my car broke down again?
guess i'll have a spliff
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u/United_Ingenuity626 5d ago
Hey! I am planning a RRG trip! We are going for about 10 days and renting a car.
I am playing with the idea of also going to the New River Gorge because I have never been there either.
Do you think splitting the trip is a bad idea? We would be driving on rest days so we would be climbing any less. Below is the itinerary:
I am also thinking of getting refundable Airbnbs so we can swap it if weather is better in one place.
Nov 1: Fly in late Nov 2: RRG Nov 3: RRG Nov 4: Rest Day - Drive to the New Nov 5: New Nov 6: New Nov 7: New Nov 8: Rest Day - Drive back to the Red Nov 9: RRG Nov 10: fly back
What do you think?!
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u/Secret-Praline2455 5d ago
i did an RRG trip 2 octs ago. i did 10 days and rented a car. stayed in RRG the whole time but could have considered a trip to the new especially when a rainy day came in coulda been great for a drive.
I was happy to rent a vehicle with 4-wheel drive for the motherlode.
i loved it, stayed at miguels the whole time. fun if you dont mind late night partying around you
i thought the 5.10s were sand bagged, the 5.12s were soft, the 13+ were spot on
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u/Thirtysevenintwenty5 4d ago
Why would splitting your trip be a bad idea? If you wanna climb in two places, climb in two places.
One common mistake people make is thinking the Red and New are close together. It's like a four hour drive between them; not great, not terrible. You definitely don't have to waste an entire day just driving between them.
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u/lectures 5d ago edited 4d ago
Both places are wonderful but the styles of climbing are so different. What sort of climbing do you enjoy and how hard do you want to climb? Are you doing any trad (go to the New)? Interested in bouldering (go to the New)? Interested in projecting (stay put) or covering ground (split your time!)?
At one point I described the New as the area you'd take home to meet your parents, while the Red is the place to spend a hot and dirty time of your life.
- There's not much below 5.10 in the New and the 5.10 stuff tends to be pretty technical and not as newbie friendly. So if you'll have less experienced folks there it's potentially going to be less fun for them.
- Not a lot stays dry in the New and the places that do stay dry are mostly pretty solid 5.12+
- Both places are unique, but the Red is more unique. Nowhere climbs quite like it. You'll be pumped on your warmup.
- Approaches are a bit longer in the New
- The Red has a more climber oriented scene (Miguel's is a thing). The food is better in Fayetteville.
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u/stealthychalupa 4d ago
Unless you are climbing for days and days and days there are enough crags w/ moderates at the New. Sandstonia and Whipoorwhill (summerville lake) for example have plenty of routes < 5.10. Also the Red tends toward steep and pumpy, so if you want less of that you might prefer the New. In other words, you can definitely get different experiences at both and you might well enjoy hitting both on your trip.
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u/NicholasAnsThirty 2d ago
Literally nowhere is safe from this shit.
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u/0bsidian 2d ago
I’m sure that’s exactly what people in Gaza are saying, in the most literal sense.
Genocide versus mildly inconveniencing no one. Hmm… I wonder which is the bigger issue…?
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u/NicholasAnsThirty 2d ago
This didn't do anything though did it? It's just some self congratulatory wank.
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u/0bsidian 2d ago
We and other people are at least talking about it, right? Beats doing absolutely nothing at all.
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u/NicholasAnsThirty 2d ago
Haha, yeah like Gaza isn't literally front page news every day on the BBC website.
Thank god some alpinists hung a flag.
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4d ago
[deleted]
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u/Thirtysevenintwenty5 4d ago
redditor for 13 days
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u/LichenTheChoss 4d ago
Top 1% Commenter = desk jockey with too much free time
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u/Thirtysevenintwenty5 3d ago
You're absolutely right. My job is to sit around and wait for things to break, and then go fix them. In an average given day I do zero to two hours of work.
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u/lectures 6d ago edited 6d ago
Third week back home. Real life is boring compared to climbing. I want to go back to climber paradise now please.