r/climbing • u/AutoModerator • 2d ago

Weekly Question Thread (aka Friday New Climber Thread). ALL QUESTIONS GO HERE

Please sort comments by 'new' to find questions that would otherwise be buried.

In this thread you can ask any climbing related question that you may have. This thread will be posted again every Friday so there should always be an opportunity to ask your question and have it answered. If you're an experienced climber and want to contribute to the community, these threads are a great opportunity for that. We were all new to climbing at some point, so be respectful of everyone looking to improve their knowledge. Check out our subreddit wiki that has tons of useful info for new climbers. You can see it HERE . Also check out our sister subreddit r/bouldering's wiki here. Please read these before asking common questions.

If you see a new climber related question posted in another subReddit or in this subreddit, then please politely link them to this thread.

Check out this curated list of climbing tutorials!

Prior Weekly New Climber Thread posts

Prior Friday New Climber Thread posts (earlier name for the same type of thread

A handy guide for purchasing your first rope

A handy guide to everything you ever wanted to know about climbing shoes!

Ask away!

8 Upvotes

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u/Four_in_binary 2d ago

Question: Can I use a rappelling harness for climbing? My son and I are getting into climbing. I have a Yates 320 AUSN harness which I understand is for rappelling. When looking at a climbing harness and the Yates harness, they appear similar in design and function with the Yates harness being much more sturdy with a metal D-ring in place of the belay loop. When I looked around the interwebs for relevant information, apparently no one has had this discussion - the few mentions I found are along the lines of "A climbing harness is for going up and a rappelling is for going down...but you can use a climbing harness for both."

Does anyone know WHY you wouldn't or shouldn't use a rappelling harness for climbing?

edit - grammar

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u/joatmon-snoo 2d ago

tldr: climbing involves higher forces than rappelling.

The Yates 320 is rated for a "Design load of 600lb".

Climbing harnesses are rated for a 3300lb load over a 6-minute load-unload cycle. (The specific cert is EN 12277, c.f. the BD Momentum or Petzl Adjama.)

It's possible to generate up to 800 lbf aka 3.5kN in a climbing fall; see HowNot2 on lead falls and this MP thread on top-rope falls.

Note: this is not to say that it's definitely unsafe to use the Yates harness, but climbing harnesses I think have a pretty clear higher safety margin here. I couldn't find details of the load test the Yates 320 is put through, and there are additional subtleties that these numbers don't reflect (peak force is different than sustained force, EN 12277 has a cyclic loading test to confirm that the buckles don't come loose, etc).

(Disclaimer: I'm just a recreational climber and probably 70% of this answer is stuff I looked up in the last 30 min.)

Short explanation: when rappelling, the rope is generally always at least partially weighted and the peak force on your rope/harness isn't a very high multiple of your actual body weight. Climbing involves higher peak forces because climbers will go from putting little to no weight on the rope/harness to suddenly - when they fall - putting not only all of their weight on the rope and harness, but needing enough force to stop their fall (F=ma and momentum/impulse).

Longer explanation:

Roped climbing takes two forms: top-rope climbing and lead climbing.

In top-rope climbing, the rope will run from the climber, up to and over a fixed point at the top of the wall, and back down to the belayer. Belayer takes in excess rope as the climber goes up.

In lead climbing, the rope runs from the climber directly down to the belayer, and the climber periodically clips the rope to progressively higher fixed points on the wall as the climber climbs.

In both situations - but far more likely in lead climbing than in top-rope climbing - the climber may fall. Lead climbing by design involves falls of 10-20 feet, sometimes higher. Top-rope climbing generally should not, but can, absolutely involve a 5-10 foot fall. Climbing equipment is meant to handle all of these loads safely, and repeatedly.

Rappelling by contrast doesn't really involve falls; you're generally always doing pretty gradual weight transfers.

Think back to the last time you carried a bag of groceries when the handle felt like it was going to rip: you had to pick it up slowly and carefully, because if it shook around too much, the handles would stretch and rip (maybe they did). That same comparison applies here, where rappelling is analogous to slow/careful carrying, and climbing falls are just swinging the bag of groceries around.

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u/Four_in_binary 1d ago

Thank you....thank you.   I understand this better because of your explanation.

You're a scholar and a gentleman, women generally find you attractive and your wife would probably go for bringing over her friend Kelly for a threesome but not her friend Mandy if you needed to know that.

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u/tenthmuze 2d ago

Looked up the harness you're referring to, and I doubt you'll die if you use it climbing but there's a couple aspects of it that make it suboptimal:

  • There's no belay loop. If you're doing anything other than being top rope belayed, it's going to be very awkward and potentially unsafe to use the d-ring at the top for a belay device.

  • There are no gear loops. If you want to lead climb or trad climb at any point, or even if you want to have a PAS or tether of some kind on your harness, you don't have anywhere to clip that gear unless you're wearing a sling, which is a faff (one I do on longer trad pitches but not the most useful outside of that).

  • It's very bulky. Will be comfortable if you're hanging for awhile or doing long rappels, but for climbing it seems cumbersome.

As always, your mileage may vary and yer gonna die etc etc

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u/Four_in_binary 2d ago

Thank you for your reply.

~~There's no belay loop. If you're doing anything other than being top rope belayed, it's going to be very awkward and potentially unsafe to use the d-ring at the top for a belay device.~~

Can you elaborate on this point a little further? I am having trouble understanding why a sewn belay loop is better than a steel D-ring for belaying. Why could I not just attach a carabiner to a belay device and the steel D-ring?

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u/0bsidian 2d ago edited 2d ago

  • Orientation. Most belay devices are designed to work with a vertically oriented belay loop to which you clip a carabiner, and the belay device to that. The horizontal D-ring sets that entire system 90-degrees from where you would want them to be.

  • We usually tie into our ropes, which means we have the rope threaded directly to our harness. That's not possible with your harness, you must use a carabiner in between. A carabiner can potentially get crossloaded when connected to the D-ring (not likely an issue with top roping, but can be a problem if you're leading).

  • Potential issue with orientation of the rope if you are lead climbing. The rope when lead climbing would be trailing below you. Your harness is designed for the rope/attachment point to be above you.

  • Some climbing gyms won’t let you use any harness that isn’t specifically designed and UIAA rated for recreational climbing. They may forbid you from using that type of harness.

You probably won't die, but you would be much better served getting the right harness for the right job. You can use a screwdriver as a hammer in a pinch, but doesn't make that ever the right tool. You can get a climbing harness for about $60-100.

Edit: gym rules.

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u/Four_in_binary 2d ago

Got.  Thanks.   I'll look into those standards.

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u/0bsidian 2d ago

The standards aren’t so much something you need to look into. Just buy your harness from a known climbing retailer, a trusted brand, and a model that is designed for climbing. If you’re in a store, the sales people will help.

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u/tenthmuze 2d ago

Couple reasons. The d ring is oriented incorrectly for most belay devices, as such they'll be angled as you're using them. Belay loops are oriented vertically, and carabiners/belay devices are designed to be used in that orientation. It's not necessarily dangerous but it is adding unnecessary complications to a process that should be as easy as possible.

The other is that some people get antsy about metal on metal. I don't think that's really a big deal but belay loops are sewn fabric and are specifically designed for this purpose.

I'm not saying something catastrophic will happen, but you'll be much more comfortable and better set up for future enjoyment in the sport if you drop the 50 bucks on a climbing specific harness for sure.

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u/SuperSolomon 2d ago

Take a climbing class at your local gym...

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

[deleted]

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u/threepawsonesock 2d ago

Metal on metal is fine, but the jingling sound of it will get annoying really fast. 

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u/muenchener2 2d ago

In addition to the valid points everybody is making about suitability, gym rules are likely to require use of a climbing harness with UIAA 105 / EN 12277 certification.

So even though you're unlikely to die using that harness for top roping, a gym would be within their rights to not let you use it.

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u/threepawsonesock 2d ago edited 2d ago

You will look like the King of the Gumbies wearing that thing, so better embrace the look and also get yourself a crown. Other than that though, for simple top roping, I’m sure it’s super good enough. 

You will want to get a proper climbing harness if you proceed into anything more complicated. You are mistaken in believing that harness is “much more sturdy.” That harness carries several US certifications, but none of them test as rigorously as the European Committee for Standardization EN 12277 standard. I would trust any harness bearing that certification over this overpriced goofy item. 

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u/an_altar_of_plagues 2d ago

I would trust any harness bearing that certification over this overpriced goofy item.

No kidding - $75 USD? Just get yourself an real climbing harness that can do both more safely, and you can actually climb...

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u/threepawsonesock 2d ago

The one I saw for sale when I googled that harness was $160

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u/Four_in_binary 2d ago

What's a Gumbie?    I can't keep up with Gen Z slang.

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u/threepawsonesock 2d ago

It’s not Gen Z slang, it’s actually Gen X slang. Climbers have been calling foolish newbies who look ridiculous “gumbies” since the 1980s. The reference is to the claymation character Gumby. 

Show up to the climbing gym with six carabiners and your friction knots ready to go? You’re a Gumby. Show up to an outdoor crag with your belay certification card on your harness? Gumby. Wear a silly industrial rappelling harness for rock climbing? Most definitely a Gumby. 

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u/Four_in_binary 1d ago

Yep ... you're pretty much dead on with that description.

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u/Dutch_Traveler095 2d ago

Hey, European here planning to do a trip to the US in Oktober/November and looking for climbing partners and crag recommendations on the East Coast. Both sport and trad routes up to around 5.11d. So far, the Red, The New and the Gunks are on my radar, but I am curious if there are small lesser known crags that are worth a visit? Are there specific groups or ways to meet climbing partners? As I am travelling and would also like to climb on week days, I rather not just drive up to the crag and hope for the best 😅

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u/saltytarheel 1d ago edited 1d ago

Adirondacks—phenomenal backcountry trad and multipitch climbing.

Looking Glass, Cedar Rock, and Rumbling Bald—immaculate granite friction slabs (and some cracks) with great bouldering at the Bald. If you like aid climbing, Looking Glass and Cedar Rock are your best bet.

Blue Ridge Parkway—not worth it as a destination, but if you end up taking the scenic way there are tons of small, fun parkway crags (Ship Rock, the Dump, Little Wilson, Sunken Treasure, Holloway Mountain).

Linville Gorge—perfect backcountry trad climbing.

If you want to bring some British boldness to the States, Whitesides, Table Rock (SC), Stone Mountain, and Laurel Knob have hard and/or scary trad testpieces.

Moore’s Wall—if you like the Gunks, this is worth a day. Also great for bouldering

Chatt—Flawless bouldering, great sport climbing at the Obed and Clear Creek, and perfect single-pitch trad lines at T-Wall.

For meeting partners, try joining and posting to the Western Carolina Climbers Facebook group for partners in NC/SC/TN. For the Red, you can easily meet people at Miguel’s Pizza; the New has the AAC Campground as a hub.

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u/0bsidian 1d ago
  • Seneca Rocks
  • Chattanooga
  • A bunch of stuff in New Hampshire

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u/SecretMission9886 1d ago

Does anyone know where you can 3D print those little widgets that stop your cam racking biner from rotating?

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u/Waldinian 1d ago

Avant sells some

https://avantclimbing.com/products/flip-stop-cam-biner-keepers

Or do you want the model files?

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u/SecretMission9886 1d ago

model files, to avoid shipping from avant in USA to Australia…

were people 3D printing these before avant started selling? Or is it an original design by avant?

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u/canyonwren3 23h ago

I'm considering doing my Single Pitch Instructor (SPI) exam in Wisconsin with Big River Climbing Guides or Vertical Voyages.

Does anyone have any experience doing their SPI exam with either of these organizations? How was it? Thanks!

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u/Thirtysevenintwenty5 1h ago

Are you doing it for the first time, or a re-cert?

I haven't done an exam with either of them, but the company running the exam shouldn't have much of an impact on your performance. It's a standard skills assessment. If you can build a top rope anchor using the instructor tether, lead 5.6, top rope 5.8, run a belayed rappel and do a belay swap/climber pick off, and a 3:1 or 3:1+1 assist, you're good. Anything else you need to know how to do would fall under basic climbing skills (like belaying from below and above, rappelling, placing gear, stuff like that).

If you've never done one I can give you some insight in to how they go.

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u/anndr0id 2d ago

I just bought a pair of Scarpa Helix online via Amazon. I was suspicious that they just came in a plain cardboard box. I’m not sure how to totally tell if they are the real deal. Anyone have these shoes that could compare? Attaching pics of the weird things I noticed. Thanks!

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u/muenchener2 2d ago

You'll see frequent comments on here advising people - correctly! - to avoid buying safety critical gear like ropes, harnesses, carabiners from amazon because their warehousing practices mean there's no guarantee you're getting the real thing.

Shoes don't really fall into that category, and tbh I doubt if climbing shoes are a big or lucrative enough market for counterfeiters to be interested. More likely you got a pair that hasn't been used, but somebody tried them on and returned them because they didn't fit.

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u/sheepborg 1d ago

Weirdly enough fake shoes are out there in current year. Relatively knew to the market, maybe in the last 1-2 years or so. They arent typically exact in terms of branding but BD momentum, laspo kubo, Scarpa instinct and drago lv all have lookalikes. Couple others too. So far i've not seen any of the clones in the wild, but I have seen a couple wish specials here and there.

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u/muenchener2 1d ago

Interesting. I always assumed things like Nike Jordans got counterfeited because of the fashion market, not for sale to amateur basketball players. There've been a few brief flickers of climbing shoes as fashion wear but they never got any momentum (yet?)

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u/Thirtysevenintwenty5 23h ago

$200 shoes are $200 shoes.

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u/anndr0id 2d ago

Silly comment, but this is supposed to be a newbies thread. Who is downvoting the questions. Seriously?

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u/sheepborg 2d ago

I swear people forget what it was like to know nothing and learn. A decade ago I too was concerned about the condition of my new to me first climbing shoes, not being used to smeared glue on hand tensioned rands.

Could just be the mention of amazon though. For the most part it's not recommended to use them for climbing gear so you'll get some negativity around that. It is much better stick to known, official retailers of known climbing brands for your climbing gear needs. Less important for shoes but you get the idea. Don't want safety gear binned with such carelessness.

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u/sheepborg 2d ago

Climbing shoes have an extremely high rate of return, so not coming in the original retail packaging isn't all that surprising from a place like amazon. The shoes look normal and fine.

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u/fayettevillainjd 2d ago

Look good to me, though I don't have the shoes. Do they say Scarpa on them? Did you buy them from the scarpa store on amazon?

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u/anndr0id 2d ago

Yeah they do and I did, but I’ve heard in the past even if you buy something from the Amazon store they will put the same product in the bin but from other sellers, especially returns

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u/Hefty-Necessary-800 1d ago

has anyone had early onset "trigger finger" or a clicking / pain in one of their fingers? i had a PT diagnose it as "trigger finger" but it is hard to me to find solutions online about it because my finger is not at the point of locking, it is only giving me a clicking sound (not painful when clicking) but it is painful on crimps.

i know that surgery can be a solution, ive seen several docs and specialists and have gotten conflicting advice about what to do. some suggest surgery, some advice not to get surgery, and some suggest a steroid shot.

i have taken months off the wall and it seems clear to me that just resting and doing putty exercises is not going to cure this

if anyone has had an experience with this or any insight PLEASE let me know, climbing is crucial to my mental health and i am at a desperate point now, this needs to be resolved as soon as possible, and i want to ensure i am taking the proper precautions and not going to make things worse. thanks in advance!

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u/sheepborg 1d ago

Yes trigger finger. In the morning my fingers would be mildly stuck and need to be pushed past a point to open. I took a few weeks off, and was able to slowly return to light climbing being very mindful of my volume and intensity for a while. Learned to be a little more conservatives on when to end a session from tired fingers. This has been roughly the same experience for all the people I've known locally to have this issue, so unfortunately no advice for your exact situation. For more serious trigger finger the injuries section of mountainproject may have more relevant experiences.

I am not a doctor, nor am I your doctor. I am a bit perplexed as to how you would have no locking and also have pain specifically with crimps. Seems kinda unusual to me. Trigger finger is a genetically influenced overuse injury typically. Are you absolutely sure this is what you're dealing with and not some more traumatic combination of injuries like a pulley and higher than normal FDS/FDP strain fluffing up your tendon or something? If you're not totally sure then it's something to get figured out.

Speaking broadly there is no 'soon' or fast with fingers. Many finger ailments come down to gentle and controlled reloading. Hooper's beta A2 for the cliffs notes of typical.

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u/Hefty-Necessary-800 1d ago

Thanks for the reply. I think it may be a misdiagnosis, as I don’t have any locking. It’s hard for me to diagnose online because all clicking finger symptoms lead to trigger finger.

I only had one specialist diagnose that however. It’s been a frustrating process because I do have one pulley injury in another finger, and it’s hard for me to tell if this is the same.

Any advice on how to get proper diagnosis? None of the PTs I have seen specialize in climbing injury, and I don’t think there are any even in my state

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u/nyxprojects 23h ago

Short question. I got the Mammut Smart 2.0, an Edelrid HMS Bulletproof Triple FG Eco and an Edelrid 9.8mm rope. I tested this combination at home and the rope slips / the smart does not lock fully. I assume new rope in combination with not ideal shape of the carabiner cause this issue. Is there another model of carabiner that I could test, which is ideally made out of stainless steel?

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u/Thirtysevenintwenty5 23h ago

You don't need a stainless steel carabiner to belay. Mammut sells a locker that matches the Smart, just buy that one.

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u/Kennys-Chicken 23h ago

The carabiner that locked best for me with my SMART was a Petzl OK.

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u/CatInAPottedPlant 2d ago

What do people think about elastic laces, like lock laces?

I have a pair of Scarpa Helix as my first climbing shoes, and while they're overall really nice, the laces are 1) comically long and constantly get caught and 2) annoying enough that I never take my shoes off at the gym because I don't want to fuck with them.

I would have gone with velcro shoes, but there weren't any available in my size and I got a good deal on these.

I haven't climbed with this setup yet, but I just threw on a pair of lock laces on them and on a cursory wear they seem every bit as tight and comfortable as normal laces, except I can get them on/off like 5x faster. I have a neuroma in one of my feet that makes it bad for me to have my feet compressed for super long periods, so being able to slip them off even halfway between climbs would help a lot.

Gumby yada yada, does anyone else do this? cons?

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u/ver_redit_optatum 2d ago

Have you tried just trimming the regular laces? I have Morton's neuroma and get flare-ups if I walk around too much in climbing shoes, but the easy solution is to only wear velcro shoes in the gym. Otherwise no I don't see a problem with the lock laces, there could be some niche cases with weird foot jams but not going to be a problem in the gym.

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u/CatInAPottedPlant 2d ago

I can definitely trim the laces, but that only solves the most minor of the several issues I've had with them. If the lock laces don't work out, I'm gonna re-install the stock laces and cut them way down for sure.

My next shoes will def be velcro, I just needed kind of a large size (47EU) and the only pairs available at REI that weren't really aggressive expensive shoes were laced.

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u/fayettevillainjd 2d ago

I have used them, and they are fine for casual climbing

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u/Used_Care_559 1d ago

Anyone up for a climbing session in Belgium tomorrow?

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u/watamula 1d ago

You'll need to be a bit more specific. Inside? If so, where? Outside?
But regardless: sorry, already have my regular partner for today.

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u/Used_Care_559 23h ago

Yeah, I was keeping that information for the chat :)

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u/tiny_smile_bot 23h ago

:)

:)

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u/watamula 21h ago

Bad bot.
Completely useless bot...

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u/NailgunYeah 18h ago

I like it

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u/NailgunYeah 18h ago

Bro there’s a lot of Belgium

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u/Used_Care_559 18h ago

Somewhere with climbing possibilities. But you know, when someone is interested we could discuss spots.

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u/NailgunYeah 5h ago

There are a lot of places with climbing possibilities. You’ve got to be more specific.

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u/Used_Care_559 5h ago

My man, I have a car, I don't really care about the spot. I'm flex, a partner is the difficult part 🥲

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u/NailgunYeah 4h ago

It’s a country. Offer an area

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u/Used_Care_559 3h ago

Grand malades, easy to reach