r/dankmemes ☣️ Jul 30 '24

I am probably an intellectual or something Suck it America

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u/parman14578 Jul 30 '24

But neither you nor the company can prescribe to the people how they use their language.

This is actually a very interesting and somewhat English-centric point (of course, we are talking about English now, so it makes sense in this case).

English is mainly a descriptive language because it essentially says: "If the people use a certain word, that makes it correct." Many other languages, though, are mainly prescriptive. They have central authorities that prescribe what is and is not a "correct" word usage, grammar, etc. In many cases, lots of words are frequently used in these languages by the people, yet these words are not considered to be correct.

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u/Raketka123 Jul 30 '24

Im a Slovak, and we have that central authority. If you actually started speaking fully correct Slovak you would sound like you were teleported here from the 14th century, and said authority is a laughing stock. So just because some countries try to do it, it rarely works out (Czech is the exact same story btw)

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u/parman14578 Jul 30 '24

I'm a Czech, actually, and I think our authority works wonderfully. I don't know about Slovak, but the grammatically correct use of Czech definitely does not make you sound like you are from the 14th century. Plenty of people speak (almost) fully correct Czech and it is considered completely normal.

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u/Raketka123 Jul 30 '24

bcs Deník (Diary) with one N makes sense, yes you could propably speak it mostly correct, but theres no way youre writing it correct. Like Dvestý is correctly dvojstý (twohundreth), Hranolky are corrctly Hranolčeky (Fries) and so on

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u/parman14578 Jul 30 '24

I do, in fact, write it correctly, as do many of my friends, though I agree that certain spelling rules are somewhat stupid (in particular the double letters). Otherwise, I am completely on board.

I don't want the Czech language to be destroyed by ugly words like dvouma (when the correct version is dvěma) or bysme (when the correct version is bychom), just because some people are unable to speak properly or did not pay attention in school.

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u/Raketka123 Jul 30 '24

I might be a bit care-free in this regard... but honestly as long as people can understand each other, whats the point? I agree "dvouma" sounds really dump but I can understand it so like... why care?

For a Slovak example, "neni" isnt correct in Slovak but literally everyone uses it, despite the correct version being "nie je" which somehow sounds dumper.

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u/kilowhom Jul 30 '24

I don't want the Czech language to be destroyed by ugly words like dvouma (when the correct version is dvěma) or bysme (when the correct version is bychom), just because some people are unable to speak properly or did not pay attention in school.

You're attempting to fight a pointless, hopeless battle. On the scale of centuries and millennia, linguistic prescriptivism is an inherently foolhardy endeavor. The language you love will change, no matter where in the world it is from and what society speaks it, and that is completely normal.

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u/OisinH2O Jul 30 '24

And same for Polish I am learning 😅

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u/buster_de_beer Jul 30 '24

Those central authorities exist for determining what is the language for legal purposes and also or educative purposes. They certainly update their rules based on actual usage, though the spelling will likely be more prescriptive. It is not the case that people are forced to follow these rules, it's more like a standards body.

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u/parman14578 Jul 30 '24

They do update their rules with time, but only to a limited degree. There are words and phrases that are somewhat widely used but will never become the formal standard, for example, because they are simply incorrect variations of the proper word.

And the function of these standards is not simply legal and educative, it is also the expected form of expression in any formal setting. Whether you are speaking at an interview, at some conference, in a good restaurant, at school or in certain jobs, you are expected to speak the proper way (though certain informal words may get a pass simply because they are used in informal situations so much that people forget they are informal).

In writing, the expectations are even larger. If you are any sort of public figure (politician, scientist etc), you are basically required to write in the formal way, otherwise whatever you say will be rejected by a large part of the population simply because "you are not smart enough to even write properly, why should we listen to you."

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u/KaptainKickass Jul 30 '24

Respectfully, even most prescriptive languages operate descriptively colloquially.

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u/averkf Jul 30 '24

There is no such thing as a "descriptive" or "prescriptive" language. Those are simply attitudes. You may have languages where most people take a prescriptive attitude, but being descriptive or prescriptive is not a feature of the language itself. Spanish has an academy which likes to prescriptively rule on what is an isn't correct Spanish, but no one actually listens to what it says.

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u/IamMythHunter E-vengers Jul 30 '24

This isn't English-centric. It is the reality of all language everywhere. Authorities on language use are political entities, not linguistic ones.

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u/YT_Sharkyevno INFECTED Jul 30 '24

No it isn’t English centric. That is how language works. Central authorities can help mold how it forms through what is taught in school. But language is still how people use it.

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u/[deleted] Jul 30 '24

English is mainly a descriptive language because it essentially says: "If the people use a certain word, that makes it correct." Many other languages, though, are mainly prescriptive.

That's not how this works, at all...

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u/aozora-no-rapper Jul 30 '24

just because prescriptivism is the status quo for some languages doesn't make it the correct position on those languages

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u/b0w3n Jul 30 '24

You can even fit the linguistics for what's going on based on what LEGO the company wants.

"Legos" would be the equivalent of LEGO's, which could be a contraction of LEGO Bricks. Ergo, when spoken, "legos" can be correct. Contracted compound nouns aren't exactly outlandish in English anyways. They exist but we don't write or think of them like the contractions they actually are, like b-ball for basketball. It's a compound noun that was contracted.

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u/dis_the_chris CERTIFIED DANK Jul 30 '24

A big problem is: who the hell would be the authority on English?

America, Scotland, Ireland, Wales, Australia, Canada and NZ would not accept England-based organisation to tell them "no your slang is invalid, your regional expressions are not proper, but that 'brown bread' is a perfectly normal way to express someone's passing-away

And you bet none of them would accept it if America tried to insist "color" was objectively correct, or Aussies telling us that a fender-bender is a "bingle"

I don't think it would practically work for English, and that's not even mentioning other countries like Kenya where it's one of a couple primary languages.

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u/JGHFunRun Jul 31 '24

Lmfao and if you actually look at how languages are spoken or written you’ll find that’s a load of horseshit. The closest you’ll find to a “real” prescriptive language is koines like Modern Standard Arabic, and even then MSA arose as the modern version of the Classical Arabic koine, and most Arabs don’t speak MSA, just write it*

*there is no standard on pronunciation so arguably it can’t be spoken, but in practice people just use the local way of pronouncing vowels and consonants when they want to speak it

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u/Number4extraDip Jul 30 '24

Oh snap. Reminds me of my Lithuanian lessons in highschool, and how teacher was always upset we used "barbarisms" from russian/polish/english