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u/Akhanyatin 16h ago
One gives you lousy presents, and the other rips your arm off to beat you with it, but yeah, both parties are equally terribly bad.
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u/Oppopity 14h ago
Who the fuck is saying they're equally terribly bad?
Also I wouldn't call genocide a lousy present.
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u/lukwes1 12h ago
Biden forced them multiple times to give aid to gaza. If you think that is promoting genocide then I don't know what to say lol.
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u/Oppopity 12h ago
I suppose Nazis didn't genocide Jews because they feed them as well.
You can't bomb people and then give a little aid and say you aren't genociding them.
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u/lukwes1 12h ago
Okay, so the Nazis forced groups to give aid to Jews, as part of their genocide? They forced them and fought with leaders of groups to make sure the jews got aid? Also you understand why they were fed right (hint: they were labour camps)?
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u/Oppopity 12h ago
You're saying despite America sending bombs to be dropped on Gaza, it can't be a genocide because they also gave them some aid.
In concentration camps Nazis gave Jews some food. Despite intentionally murdering them, would you also agree the holocaust wasn't a genocide?
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u/lukwes1 12h ago edited 12h ago
You're saying despite America sending bombs to be dropped on Gaza, it can't be a genocide because they also gave them some aid.
The bombs are intended for Hamas. That is why. Intention is important when it comes to genocide.
In concentration camps Nazis gave Jews some food. Despite intentionally murdering them, would you also agree the holocaust wasn't a genocide?
Yes, to keep them alive for labour. If they weren't needed for labour they happily let them starve. Biden didn't force Israel to give them aid so they could be put in labour camps. That is a huge difference so these two situations aren't analogous like you are claiming.
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u/Oppopity 12h ago edited 12h ago
The bombs are intended for Hamas. That is why. Intention is important when it comes to genocide.
Unironically pulling the "but they were Hamas!"
Those babies? Hamas! Every hospital? Hamas! Journalists? Refugee camps? All of Gaza? You got it! Hamas!
Edit: Excellent tactic. Make a strawman and then block me.
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u/Akhanyatin 13h ago
Ah yes, those pesky genociding Dems, it's a good thing the antigenocide republicans are here to put a stop to it.
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u/Oppopity 13h ago
Strange. I never suggested republicans were anti-genocide.
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u/Akhanyatin 13h ago
Good thing there are other viable options
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u/Oppopity 13h ago
That aren't beholden to the whims of corporations and lobbyists?
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u/Akhanyatin 9h ago
I saw that you replied but your comment was removed, I don't know if you removed it or mods or whatever. I just wanted to say that the morality of an action doesn't depend on who does it. But there are gradients, not everything has to be exactly terrible or exactly great. And in this case there clearly is a "team" who's doing much worse for the issue that you care for (and everyone else's issues for that matter) than the other.
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u/Oppopity 8h ago
This is where I disagree.
I don't think Trump has done anything materially worse for Palestinians than what we saw under Biden. Would Biden or Harris have posted ai videos of themselves sunbathing in Gaza? No. But that's not what matters, murdering people is what matters and when it comes to genocide there is only one genocide. You're either committing genocide or you aren't.
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u/Akhanyatin 8h ago
Sure, let's compare them:
On one hand, you had one that, at the very least, pretended to try to hold Israel back. On the other you have the one who said "fuck it let's turn this into a resort".
On one hand you have one that, at the very least, pretends to take public pressure and protests under consideration. On the other you have the one who will do everything he can to get you arrested and, if applicable, deported.
From what I can see here the death toll has been relatively consistent, but the injuries increased dramatically from Jan 2025. I wonder what happened in Jan 2025.
Donald trump was sworn in on 20 Jan 2025, Israel blocks aid into Gaza on 24 Jan 2025. Is it a coincidence that they waited this long?
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u/Oppopity 7h ago
On one hand, you had one that, at the very least, pretended to try to hold Israel back. On the other you have the one who said "fuck it let's turn this into a resort".
In other words. Equally bad but one is honest about what they're doing.
On one hand you have one that, at the very least, pretends to take public pressure and protests under consideration.
It's like you're agreeing with me but then coming to the opposite conclusion. How is this not proof that they only care about corporate and lobbyist interests over people?
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u/Akhanyatin 12h ago edited 12h ago
That was sarcasm. The US has two parties, everyone else is just for show. Now you seem to find the Israelo-Palestinian conflict important. Let's see how both parties were talking about it:
Kamala: I expressed my serious concern about the dire humanitarian situation there. [...] What has happened in Gaza over the past 9 months is devastating. The images of dead children and desperate hungry people fleeing for safety [...] We cannot look away in the face of these tragedies, we cannot allow ourselves to become numb to the suffering, and I will not be silent.
Trump: but we're gonna take care of Israel and they know that. Bb called me yesterday and we have a very good relationship. Fortunately they didn't listen to Biden because of they'd listen to Biden, they'd be waiting for a bomb to drop on them. [...] So we're gonna do a lot for Israel.
I'm assuming that your point of view is that Israel is committing genocide in Gaza. I don't know about you but one of the two speeches doesn't sound so genocidal imo.
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u/EdrissMiakhel ☣️ 9h ago
Word cheap action speak louder then word the genocide start under dem and let continue and supported I am not saying that republicans are any good too but genocide was something that both party committed and both party support existence of apartheid state so how come one is better then another?
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u/Akhanyatin 9h ago edited 8h ago
On one hand, you had one that, at the very least, pretended to try to hold Israel back. On the other you have the one who said "fuck it let's turn this into a resort".
On one hand you have one that, at the very least, pretends to take public pressure and protests under consideration. On the other you have the one who will do everything he can to get you arrested and, if applicable, deported.
From what I can see here the death toll has been relatively consistent, but the injuries increased dramatically from Jan 2025. I wonder what happened in Jan 2025.
Donald trump was sworn in on 20 Jan 2025, Israel blocks aid into Gaza on 24 Jan 2025. Is it a coincidence that they waited this long?
Don't let perfect be the enemy of good.
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u/Kinesquared 16h ago
Hurr durr both sides the same both sides equally bad
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u/Illustrious-Roll7737 15h ago
I think it is saying both sides are controlled by corporations...and therefore we are ruled by corporations. I don't think they are equating the tactics and policies of either party. Most people that lean left, and most likely people in the middle, that actually appreciate what freedoms we do have, do not want to see this country slip into a fascist Republican dictatorship.
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u/grubas Article 69 🏅 13h ago
Nah, that's the issue. The right is ruled by techno fascists and religious extremists who want us all to die.
The Dems suck ass but it's more of the status quo sucking ass.
Issue is the GOP doesn't care about businesses anymore, they've gone full cult. It's why some of this shit, like the tanking dollar, doesn't even get a mention.
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u/B0r3dGamer ☣️ 11h ago
Just fascists. Corporations do well in authoritarian systems but no one talks about that side of WW2 History. We got here because both sides fundamentally became linked by corporate interests not the people after Clinton & citizens United.
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u/PM_ME_UR_SURFBOARD 10h ago
Citizens United reeeeeeally fucked us over. “Restricting corporate lobbying is restricting freedom of speech” my ass.
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u/Whatsapokemon 6h ago
Corporations do well in authoritarian systems
They only do "well" in comparison to the average person.
In absolute terms, corporations also suffer under authoritarian systems because authoritarian systems undermine the free movement of capital and investment. Authoritarian nations also harm trade relations, and tend to harm investor and consumer confidence because of how they can just institute random, sweeping laws at any random time.
That's why all the biggest, strongest corporations exist in relatively free nations, and not in nations like Russia or North Korea.
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u/ScurvyDog509 15h ago
The only people who don't want to hear that both sides are cults are the people who are currently in one of the cults.
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u/Whatsapokemon 6h ago
The Trump-worship on the right is cult-like.
What politician on the left of US politics is worshipped like Trump is?
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u/ShittyLanding 12h ago
“Both sides” is just intellectually lazy. It allows you to be cynical and bitch and moan without ever actually examining the issue. You aren’t above it, you’re just not paying attention.
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u/Anaata 12h ago
Yup, being a moderate or a centrist shouldn't mean "I criticize both sides equally", it should be "I criticize each side proportionally to what they do while in office"
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u/ScurvyDog509 10h ago
Exactly. Each side polarizes their base in and out of office. I do see good in left and right. I just want everyone to stop letting themselves be polarized so we can talk like adults and get some things done.
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u/enwongeegeefor 8h ago
I do see good in left and right.
Name something good in the right that the left doesn't do.
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u/ScurvyDog509 10h ago
Why is it intellectually lazy when a real problem affects each side equally?
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u/enwongeegeefor 8h ago
a real problem affects each side equally?
Then you are not even remotely paying attention if you think it's "equally."
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u/ShittyLanding 10h ago
Which real problem, exactly, are we talking about?
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u/ScurvyDog509 10h ago
The political apparatus that is intentionally polarizing it's base with algorithms and bot farms while corruption rots the foundations of western societies.
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u/Future-Cold1582 12h ago
But it let's the intellectually lazy feel really smart which is much more fun than actually thinking
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u/ScurvyDog509 10h ago
I actually think the intellectually lazy line (it gets used so much) is at worst, a thought-stopping tactic, and at best, intellectually lazy. How is calling out systemic asshatery across the entire spectrum lazy thinking?
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u/Future-Cold1582 6h ago
Going the "they are both cults" route is easy because you don't have to differentiate, you don't have to actually think and reflect about the magnitude of each side's actions. Just saying both are bad is intellectual surrender because you did not even try to differentiate. The most sad thing about it is that this is incredibly dangerous and makes autocratic power grabs actually possible, without people like you autocrats wouldn't stand a chance. It was always the same in every democratic system that turned autocratic, a large portion of the people saying they don't care who is in power they are all the same anyway. They are not and history showed it often enough that autocrats are worse for the people than moderates. Read about the rise of fascists in Germany and Italy before ww2 or Hugo Chavez power grab around 2000 in Venezuela.
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u/randylush 14h ago
I think people should try to choose the lesser of two evils, does that mean I'm in a cult? I don't think voting is accomplishing a lot, but NOT voting accomplishes much less.
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u/Unable-Cellist-4277 14h ago
This democrat cult sucks, I was promised a charismatic leader who would promise that they alone could solve all our problems.
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u/badbrotha 14h ago
"you have to accept gay people" vs no abortion rights, gestapo raids in the street, massive unmitigated crypto fraud, new, multiple volatile war fronts, dissolution of agreements of allies, strengthening of our foes, damaged incomes for the middle and lower class
Please stfu if you have no idea what you're talking about
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u/ScurvyDog509 10h ago
The other side has a long angry rant about your side, too.
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u/badbrotha 7h ago edited 7h ago
That's fine, Democrat policy is empirically beneficial while Republican policy leads to a worse economy, the other Republican president lead us to an economic housing crisis while this one is rapidly approaching recession levels from a stable economy, again. Trump nearly lead us to an economic crash in 2020. Lo and behold, dummies vote him in again, and, who woulda thought, Trump is doing it again in his 2nd term. Good job Republicans, way to go.
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u/iamnotazombie44 14h ago
No, not equally bad, equally complicit.
I would rather live in a free Democratic-Republic, but since I'm forced to in a "captive Republic" under oligarchic rule, of course I'm going to choose the party that's the mildly benevolent authoritarian over the Christo-fascist authoritarian.
That doesn't mean the Democratic party isn't complicit in the transition to oligarchy. I'm a leftist, and I have zero faith that the DNC has my/our/the people's best interests in mind.
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u/Senor-Delicious 6h ago
The main problem is that there are only two sides and nothing else. Every system that is like this shouldn't be called a "democracy".
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u/gummo_for_prez 14h ago
They are not the same, one is far far better. But it’s still a problem that neither will do anything to oppose corporate power for fear of losing donors (and as a result elections). This is not a healthy dynamic. Bernie has been talking about it for a long time. Many others have spoken to how this is a bad situation throughout history, famously both of our presidents with the last name Roosevelt. I will be voting democrat for sure, Republicans are much worse. But this isn’t a being better contest, this is about the state of democracy and until people are able to challenge corporate power, expect things to get worse.
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u/Fitzaroo 17h ago
I dunno man, one group tried to cancel student debt and provide healthcare while the other stopped it. Sounds like they aren't quite the same.
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u/founderofshoneys 12h ago
The other party stopped healthcare? You mean the public option amendment for Obamacare when dems had the WH, senate, and house? If so that's definitely not what happened. See also Manchin on the infrastructure bill and dems like Gluesenkamp-Perez on student debt. Democrats always make sure they have spoilers so they can talk about wanting to do stuff, but find a reason they can't so they don't piss off corporate donors.
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u/EstablishmentDear469 15h ago
Who the hell ever tried to seriously provide healthcare to the American people.
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u/shutupyourenotmydad 15h ago
Bernie Sanders, I guess?
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u/EstablishmentDear469 15h ago
And which party stole his nomination twice?
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u/Drumbelgalf 11h ago
Probably because they knew he would never win the votes of the swing voters.
He certainly had the best ideas but Americans are to stupid to realize they would benefit from them.
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u/EstablishmentDear469 11h ago
Based on the polling he would have beaten trump in 2016. It’s the neoliberal corporates who would rather have trump win than to actually see change.
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u/why_did_I_comment 15h ago
"I happen to be a proponent of a single-payer universal health care program. I see no reason why the United States of America, the wealthiest country in the history of the world, spending 14 percent of its gross national product on health care, cannot provide basic health insurance to everybody. And that's what Jim is talking about when he says everybody in, nobody out. A single-payer health care plan, a universal health care plan. That's what I’d like to see. But as all of you know, we may not get there immediately. Because first we've got to take back the White House, we've got to take back the Senate, and we've got to take back the House."
Barack Obama ~2003
Single payer healthcare was a big reason many people voted for him. Unfortunately we never got there.
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u/EstablishmentDear469 15h ago
And then he got into office and passed Romney care and gave a huge gift to health insurance companies.
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u/CrazyBigHog 14h ago
Don’t forget 700 billion he handed over to the banks after they collapsed under their own mismanagement. Probably helped that Citicorp hand picked his cabinet.
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u/Oppopity 14h ago
I dunno man, one group funded a genocide and the other also funded a genocide.
"Sounds like they aren't quite the same." Is a strawman. Pointing out that both parties serve corporate interests first and foremost isn't saying they're both the same. One is clearly worse than the other. But if corporate interests conflict with voter interests they will always sell out voters. That's how you end up with your vote not being able to do anything to stop genocide. Liberal democracy only allows change if it doesn't go against what the elites want.
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u/themule1216 3h ago
Nah man
I mean like yeah, they both suck
But one side kinda sucks and the other one is willing to tear up the constitution and wreck the economy. Constant evil and stupid shit
It’s best to make sure that republicans can’t just slink away when all this is done. They tried to damn the country. They fucking suck
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u/Fitzaroo 11h ago
But that isn't true. They tried to get healthcare passed which would (and probably did) deal a big blow to healthcare. Student loan forgiveness also got stopped because a corporate interest sued since it would hurt them.
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u/Oppopity 10h ago
Soooo. It is true.
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u/Timozi90 16h ago
It's called a publicity stunt.
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u/Any-Opposite-5117 16h ago
This is such bad faith bullshit at this point in time. Anyone attempting to denigrate Democrats or conflate left and right at this moment is a stooge whether they know it or not.
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u/randylush 14h ago
Republicans are literally running around in masks and sending immigrants to death camps in other countries, throwing hundreds of billions at it and taking tens of millions of Americans off of healthcare to pay for it
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u/Any-Opposite-5117 14h ago
Did you see the two firefighters who get arrested, on a fire line, during an active fire? Just, fuck, what is even happening.
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u/Oppopity 14h ago
This is such bad faith bullshit at this point in time. No one is saying both sides are equally bad. The point is that they both serve corporations and lobbyists first and foremost.
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u/Any-Opposite-5117 14h ago
Well...yes, that is definitely true, can't argue with that. I would love to, but I think the corporate bastardization of our system of government is evident.
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u/siresword 16h ago
Yes, but don't think they are the same lobby groups. One group is just your classical suite wearing corporate sleeze balls who want an environment that's good for business, they are still going to run the country into the ground but it would have been a longer, slower, and less painful process. The other is a bunch of fascist neo-feudalists who actively hate you and want to create a fascist hellstate where they control everything and everyone, disappearing anyone they disagree with and actively suppressing any political opposition. They think 1984 is a manual on governance, if they have even read it at all.
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u/Oppopity 14h ago
They are the same lobby groups. Whether it's fascism or liberalism the rich win either way.
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u/siresword 14h ago
There's a big chunk of lobbyists which lobby whoever is in power since they are only concerned with one specific issue, but I'm talking about the super PACs and donors who support the politicians directly, those are the guys who have a much stronger hand in shaping general policy. Those guys don't cross over between parties, because they both have very different visions for the future of America.
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u/Oppopity 13h ago
Can you give some examples?
Because I'd say the elites are pretty united on what they want and that's profit. And instead of fighting each other it's easier to just join businesses to maintain a monopoly.
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u/founderofshoneys 12h ago
Not saying there isn't some variance between the two, but on the whole, yes, it's the same groups with money from the same donors. They often donate to both candidates in the same election.
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u/Grater_Kudos 12h ago
Yeah because apparently 2 party elections are better than open party elections for some stupid fucking reason
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u/Therowdy 14h ago
So over this small brain take. Both sides are not the same. Republicans are fascists who take your rights away.
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u/founderofshoneys 12h ago
And the democrats are the ones who always seem to find a reason they can't do anything to stop it even when they have power. Only time they ever put up a fight, it's against a Bernie Sanders or Zohran Mamdani.
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u/Therowdy 12h ago
Read up on Mitch McConnell, and check out the obstructionism present in every Democrat run presidency. Democrats aren't perfect but you're regurgitating FOX talking points. ICE, CBP, loss of Abortion rights, you can't watch PORN in Republican run states, I bet marriage equality is on the chopping block soon, Trump is an actual rapist (proven in Court) fuck your stupid small minded piont. BOTH SIDES ARE NOT THE SAME.
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u/founderofshoneys 12h ago
I assure you, I'm VERY familiar with Mitch McConnell. Criticizing democrats is not repeating Fox talking points. Not criticizing just gives them a free pass to do as much fucked up shit as they want as long as they're not as bad as the other side and that is an extremely low bar.
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u/Therowdy 12h ago
“Not Criticizing democrats gives them a pass” blah blah blah this is a chain about a common trope that both sides are the same which ultimately creates apathy and is part of the reason we are where we are right now. The republicans are stripping away democracy and selling the country for parts.
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u/Blueaznx3 15h ago
We're quickly heading down a path as a country where corporations will be doing live skits without puppets very soon
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u/myerssed 10h ago
*Irresponsible lobbies and corporations working against the will of the people to maximize profits for the will of a few. FTFY.
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u/legislative-body 9h ago
One thing I've been, well, less discovering, and more reaffirming, is that the country wasn't as good off under the democrats, and not as bad off under the republicans, as reddit would like for you to believe.
They tend to push hard left, so it's hard to take their opinions seriously when they proclaim that one side is okay and one side is bad. They see themselves as the middle and anyone not as equally left as far right neo-fascists at times. Even going so far as to say that centrists are just as culpable as the far right because they aren't actively fighting the far right... Jeez, doomercirclejerk was a bunch of naive people pretending the stock market will grow at 8% forever, but there was one thing they did have right. Far left redditors aren't to be seriously listened to for most things.
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u/knifuser [custom flair]☣️ 6h ago
Most of them, although there are some democrats further to the left that don't take corporate money: https://www.instagram.com/stocking_the_capitol?igsh=NXM4cWQzM2tvdzZ0
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u/MERKINSEASON3807 1h ago
Democrats are the lesser "evil" both parties suck but at least the dems try to put on a front about caring for the people
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u/EidolonRook 15h ago
One side builds up and the other side tears down. Both are seen as the good guys to the folks that stand to benefit from their one sides success.
It’s not about equal sides. It’s about how each side perpetuates a cycle that doesn’t benefit from shifting too far towards either side. We’re still fumbling the same balls we were trying to win with in the 90s. That’s no coincidence.
And now one side is playing for keeps which means if we let this farce go on for too long… We’ll be the divided states of America or worse.
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u/ThisFukinGinger 12h ago
From an outside perspective, both are equally fucking stupid. The left falls for the rights ragebait and the right shoots itself in the foot with corrupt leadership.
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u/JB_07 15h ago
I say destroy both parties and ban any public official associated with said parties from running for political positions afterward. Absolute clean slate and no sleezy rich fucks.
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u/ElectronicTalk__ 15h ago
And then the next politicians will be perfectly moral and greed won't exist too for some reason. Right?
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u/Barar_Dragoni 12h ago
Thats why they hate Trump so much, because he isnt playing their game. he is currently destroying their game by playing by their rules and removing the 100 years of corruption in our government.
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u/B0r3dGamer ☣️ 12h ago
You're right he isn't playing by their rules but he's actually creating a new kind of corruption. Before it was behind the scenes he's just more open about it. The only group that's not taking money & wants government accountability is the progressives. That's why he hates them so much.
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u/Barar_Dragoni 10h ago
the progressives that are advocating for sacrificing civil liberties for the cause of DEI, "fairness" to minorities, and laws that are detrimental to the average person and the speech we are allowed to use because it may offend people? also the Progressives whos primary government backers are the career politicians who built and profit form the 100+ years of corruption that Trump is currently eradicating?
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u/National_Rooster9193 17h ago
🎵And every politician, every cop on the street protects the interest of the ped*philic corporate elite! Thaaaaaat is how the world works🎵