Yeah, it's so incredibly much better to have an entire nation terrified, routinely killed, raped, burned alive in buses etc. Everyone lived in terror, now people are super safe.
Millions of people are freed, and sad redditors will say "Yes but maybe one day one politician might be not free and that's worst than anything else". Are you genuinely stupid, naive, rage baiting or that's AI content ???
In addition to other comments correctly pointing out that due process is important and exists for a reason, I have to ask…is accusing someone of being “AI content” the new slur or something? There’s nothing remotely AI-sounding about the comment you responded to.
Obviously things exist for a reason. In most countries it's applied no problem. When people applied the principle for many decades but it stopped working, then yeah temporarily you have state of emergency and put everyone for gang tattos in prison to free an entire nation of terror.
The ideology of blindly following principles with 0 understanding of any contexte is an absolute curse. You don't understand every country and era are different ? You can't apply the same thing at the same time in most remote peaceful part of wealthy norway, and a part with narco terrorist raping and killing on a daily basis
No, we do not. You're just vastly more likely to be in the millions of regular citizens who are now freed, than a fraction (the innocent) of a fraction (2% of population is in prison). The majority of prisonners have extremely visible, non ambiguous, gang tattos btw.
It's all fun and games until you're the one in prison.
But as always, "couldn't happen to me"
I'm all for harsh measures to deal with very high crime rates in crime infested countries. But to pretend it's fine to never ever have due process again? And the dude who did that now installed himself as dictator for life? Always ends well...
Congrats, literally all of your assumptions are totally wrong.
> couldn't happen to me
Obviously it could, not a single person said the opposite. Literally everyone including the gov and bukele recognize innocent are caught in the crossfire. But we went from almost the entire population living absolute hell to a fraction (innocent) of a fraction (imprisoned). SO yeah 80%=>0.1% is a win.
> t's fine to never ever have due process again?
Who says it's "fine" ? That's a stupid take. No one says it's fine. We just acknowledge the situation in el salvador was absolute hell on earth. Most people lived in terror, daily. If your daughter was forced to prostitute, your business exorted, your son force to join a gang and when your bus driver refuse extortion they burn the entire people in the bus alive you would think "Hmm most important is due process. I do not care about my family in the slightest ?". You have 0 empathy and are such a clueless boy. So no it's not a fine, it's a harsh compromise the good salvadorian people decided to accept.
Who are you to think you know better than salvadorian. They give extremely high popularity to their president and last election 58 of 60 seats. All observers recognized it was regular election. But for some reason that one reddit knows better that salvadorian and that constant state of terror is better than freedom for most
Even top Nazi leaders had trials, the Nuremberg trials. Every single human, no matter the accusations or evidence against them, deserves a fair trial in a court of law.
terrible comparaison. Nazism posed no tangible threat once the third reich fell as germany was under extremely strong occupation. Therefore, they had time to organise trials. It was never about what's fair or not.
The point was to locked up everyone suspect of gang (as all gang members have gang tattoos it's easy to recognize them + based on police + neighbor reports), then the trials will be organized. After 4 decades of trying regular western style trials for each gang members, salvadorian realized it didn't work. They needed to first lock up all suspects, gangs have entirely collapsed (murder divided by 50, no visible gang anywhere as far as any citizen and any media report), now we can judge them.
You talk of the most opposite context, you are very confused. It's not a matter of principle but necessity. Necessity privileged people typing with their fat fingers on a screen might not realize, due to lack of empathy.
You're the type of person to set your house on fire if it meant cleaning out the attic. El Salvador is doing this right now. The gangs are replaced by death squads, and the extortion and fear comes from a different source now. People take their freedoms for granted, and are far too willing to let them go for some perceived improvements.
100 homocides per 100k to 1.9 is not a perceived improvement. You hurt your argument by downplaying how much safer El Salvador is by acting as if it’s some marginal improvement that came at the expense of too much. In reality it’s a gargantuan improvement and many lives were saved. I promised if you lived in El Salvador your entire life and watched family and friends get raped and murdered your first priority would be to get rid of the crime rather than thinking about doing it in a slow methodical way. It’s better to make a radical change and lower the crime THEN go back and fix the issues than to make incremental safe changes for a decade. You save a lot more people with the former rather than the latter.
The reported murder rate is dubious. Really, almost anything coming out of El Salvador should be taken with a huge grain of salt, as freedom of the press is extremely repressed.
Even if I gave you the benefit of the doubt and postulated that the number is crazy higher like 50 homicides per 100k that’s still half the murder rate lmao. EVEN if that were the case that’s still an insane improvement and insane amount of lives saved in just a few years, are you going to reject that? You seem so emotionally tied up with your grievance with bukele that you refuse to believe there have been drastic improvements under his leaderships. There are many controversial/not-so-ethical leaders that have done great things. You can’t point me to a leader who’s made dramatic improvements in such a short amount of time without some controversy or weird stuff going on. Be empathetic to the people who live in El Salvador and at least acknowledge that knowing your streets are safer is a net benefit.
I've seen a very high number of ressources (reddit, documentary, street interview, journals, forums etc. With a strong preference for sources known to be *critical* of dictatorship in general so not biased for Bukele) for years about the situation so I say with *absolute* confidence that you're entirely wrong talking about "perceived" improvements.
The wide majority of salvadorian described living in terror, not going out, not using public space, not going out at night, seeing their daughter forced to be hooker, seeing murder regularly etc. to now, for the first time in their life, going out safely, hiking, going to another neighborhood (with their family not seen for decades) etc.
But you're telling me that Bukele, succesfully, faked the many thoushands of testimony accross every western media, every youtuber who led independant street interviews, corrupted every journalist on earth ? That's the most baseless, crazy and stupid conspiracy theory that have ever existed boy.
But more interestingly, observers throughout the world that came to scrutinize the last election found no irregularities yet he won with 58/60 seats. So now you also think every salvadorian is so stupid that they had 0 improvements in their life yet voted for him (when his argument is basically only security...) for no reasons.
Stop thinking you know better than everyone and stop being ridicul with your baseless conspiracy theory in the style of "every journalist in the entire world has been corrupted" or whatever.
Wtf u talking about ? I lived in a city switching from right to french communist party. They disarmed all cops even of taser, fired the ones looking at the CCTV of the cities, and laid off most cops.
I went from a cop picking up the phone in 1 minute to cop taking 25-35 minutes to pick up. I'd see people being beat up in front of my buildings, drugs dealers etc. They were weekly protest in the city against that much insecurity.
I live in french where more than 10 Jewish were killed by islamists and many got away for not being "mentally fit". How surprising they all scream allah Akbar, but because they smoked one joint (genuine excuse accepted by tribunal) they are deemed not fit for prison. We're 0.7% of the population but majority of the physical assaults based on race
I'd give my mother and my left arm for an authoritarian government rounding up these people, and disposing them of all these antisemits, islamists etc.
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u/Elephant-Virtual 7d ago
Yeah, it's so incredibly much better to have an entire nation terrified, routinely killed, raped, burned alive in buses etc. Everyone lived in terror, now people are super safe.
Millions of people are freed, and sad redditors will say "Yes but maybe one day one politician might be not free and that's worst than anything else". Are you genuinely stupid, naive, rage baiting or that's AI content ???