r/dataisbeautiful 3d ago

OC [OC] Comparing the combined GDPs of China and India to the US GDP at that time

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671 Upvotes

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197

u/Lez0fire 3d ago

Blue line: Almost 3 billion people

Red line: not even 350 millions

In what world is that comparable?

297

u/emoney_gotnomoney 3d ago

It is comparable in terms of global influence, but not in terms of prosperity for the individual citizens within those countries.

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u/probablyuntrue 3d ago

Great for online pissing contests though

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u/Thirdborne 3d ago

At some point the question gets asked what access to US markets is worth and what the alternatives are. It wouldn't matter as much if most of the G7 could essentially be counted as offshoots from the US economy, but in a time where the US is pushing trade partners to look for diversification options and trying to exert leverage in trade negotiations? If the data is correct and meaningful, it's very valuable to someone(probably not you or me though.)

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u/NiknA01 3d ago

I can almost taste the Chinese and Indian tears

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u/SPB29 3d ago

Why? Am an Indian and everyone here recognises the fact that the US has been the sole economic hegemon from the early 1900's and it won't change for another 50-75 years at the least.

Otoh China and India were amongst the poorest countries even 4 decades ago and both have grown at a crazy pace, unprecedented as it doesn't involve Oil or stealing from colonies or internal colonisation

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u/Cariotee 3d ago

Pipe down, a convicted rapist is your president right now 😭

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u/asparagusthunder2714 3d ago

Not much better than modi then lmao

Dude has convicted rapists released during elections so that he can use their influence to win elections

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u/SPB29 3d ago

How can any PM in India order the release of convicted rapists? And who is this superman who can add millions of votes?

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u/asparagusthunder2714 2d ago edited 2d ago

The indian right sees folks like ram rahim and the bilkis bano rapists as their inspiration

No need to act innocent in front of foreigners the entire world knows how your bunch was proudly holding rallies in support of these rapists

We all saw subs like indiaspeaks seething when their hero got arrested for one of the largest rape cases in australia. Most of the rape threats on the internet are almost always from one of those rapey indian nationalist accounts which is not surprising at all

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u/crimepais 3d ago

Tell us more about the Hindu Nationalist

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u/ziplock9000 2d ago

That's all this post is.

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u/Ibn_Sujood 3d ago

Lol individual prosperity? GDP per capita means nothing if your elite individuals and the corporations they control own all the P.

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u/bigbootystaylooting 3d ago

GDP per capita means nothing if your elite individuals and the corporations they control own all the P.

How does it mean nothing? A higher output of production generated would mean there's more money generated by the businesses which benefits the state, and provides higher job opportunity. It's big corporations which generate most of the production, always has been.

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u/bigbootystaylooting 3d ago

They literally just said it's not about individual prosperity.

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u/Ibn_Sujood 2d ago

Fair enough. Sorry I'm a bit sleep deprived. Baby in the house lol.

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u/Salahuddin315 3d ago

Incorrect. Most of their wealth is in stocks, which effectively means that it's circulating among the population. Accumulation of wealth gives the owner the perk of deciding what industry a large part of the country will spend more efforts on, like e-commerce or AI, electric cars or airspace.

Of course, sometimes (but not always) that means pulling resources from some other industries, and people working there are in for a bad day when it happens, but it's not like billionaires are sitting on hoards of bread, taking it out of children's mouths. 

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u/Confirmed_AM_EGINEER 3d ago

The crazy part of this is how much of this money never goes back to America at all.

Is America wealthy? Yes, absolutely.

Does it seem the average American is living a life that is 6 times better and more prosperous than the average Chinese or Indian citizen? I don't know.

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u/ainz-sama619 2d ago

You have no idea how poor the average indian is. Literally zero

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u/emoney_gotnomoney 2d ago

Does it seem the average American is living a life that is 6 times better and more prosperous than the average Chinese or Indian citizen? I don't know.

Ummm…..yes. Yes they most definitely are.

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u/BertDeathStare 2d ago

6 times better than the average Chinese? Definitely not. Obviously salaries are way lower in China, but so is cost of living. India is a different story.

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u/emoney_gotnomoney 2d ago

Cost of living for the average Chinese person is lower than that of the average American because the quality of life of the average Chinese person is lower than that of the average American.

0

u/BertDeathStare 2d ago

No, the average cost of living is lower because wages are lower. Wages are also way lower in my country the Netherlands than wages in the US, but no way I'd say we have a worse quality of life. Average income doesn't paint an accurate picture.

Even if average quality of life is worse in China than in the US, that doesn't mean it's 6 times worse. That's a ridiculous claim to make. The average Chinese has a comparable life with the average American in terms of quality of life. They work regular jobs as Americans, go out for dinner and coffee, they do fitness and other hobbies, their life expectancy is almost the same as that of the US, etc. The difference between the 2 countries really isn't as extreme as you're making it out to be. It's not Afghanistan we're talking about here.

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u/emoney_gotnomoney 1d ago edited 1d ago

No, the average cost of living is lower because wages are lower.

No, cost of living in China is lower because the quality of life is lower.

Wages are also way lower in my country the Netherlands than wages in the US, but no way I'd say we have a worse quality of life.

That’s great, but I’m talking about China, not the Netherlands.

Even if average quality of life is worse in China than in the US, that doesn't mean it's 6 times worse. That's a ridiculous claim to make.

I would say it’s a perfectly acceptable claim to make, although the exact number is obviously purely subjective.

The average Chinese has a comparable life with the average American in terms of quality of life.

No it’s not. Compare the size of the average house in China (650 sq ft) to the size of the average house in the US (2200 sq ft), let alone the other specs of those houses. Compare where the average Chinese citizen purchases their goods (local markets, street markets, wet markets, etc.) to where the average American purchases their goods (massive department stores, massive grocery stores, Target, etc.) Even the poorest Americans would scoff at the idea of shopping at wet market. Compare the type of job the average Chinese citizen holds to that of the average American, and so on.

If we’re comparing the top 10-20% in each country, I would say the difference isn’t as drastic. But if you’re comparing the citizens in the 30-70% range, the difference is extremely significant. Just compare the number of Americans who immigrate to China versus the number of Chinese who immigrate to America. If the quality of life was comparable, you expect those numbers to at least be relatively comparable, but it’s not even close (even if you account for the home country’s’ populations).

their life expectancy is almost the same as that of the US, etc.

the life expectancy in the US is not lower due to a low quality of life. The life expectancy in the US is lower because we live an extremely unhealthy and extremely sedentary lifestyle, the latter being a sign of very high quality of life (i.e. convenience).

It's not Afghanistan we're talking about here.

I never said it was. The difference between the US and Afghanistan is even more stark.

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u/BertDeathStare 1d ago

No, cost of living in China is lower because the quality of life is lower.

Repeating something doesn't make it true. Go ahead and prove how their quality of life is 6 times lower because of lower incomes.

That’s great, but I’m talking about China, not the Netherlands.

Convenient isn't it? I'm pointing out the flaws in your logic using the Netherlands as an example. Incomes clearly don't accurately portray quality of life.

No it’s not. Compare the size of the average house in China (650 sq ft) to the size of the average house in the US (2200 sq ft), let alone the other specs of those houses. Compare where the average Chinese citizen purchases their goods (local markets, street markets, etc.) to where the average American purchases their goods (massive department stores, massive grocery stores, Target, etc.) Compare the type of job the average Chinese citizen holds to that of the average American.

China is a more densily populated country, obviously more people live in apartments than in large houses. That doesn't mean their quality of life is lower. You can have excellent apartments.

Wait, buying from markets is worse than buying from large grocery stores? What are these standards you're making up? Also what evidence do you have that Chinese people buy more from markets than Americans?

If we’re comparing the top 10-20% in each country, I would say the difference isn’t as drastic. But if you’re comparing the citizens in the 30-70% range, the difference is extremely significant. Just compare the number of Americans who immigrate to China versus the number of Chinese who immigrate to America. If the quality of life was comparable, you expect those numbers to at least be relatively comparable, but it’s not even close (even if you account for the home country’s’ populations).

It's not extremely significant at all. You're literally just making this up lmao. The only difference you know of as a fact is the gap in average incomes, but this doesn't make the quality of life worse, let alone 6 times worse, because cost of living is lower as well.

I never said it was. The difference between the US and Afghanistan is even more stark.

The difference between China and Afghanistan is stark. The difference between China and the US isn't stark at all. Quality of life for the average person is quite comparable nowadays. Maybe you can actually explain how it's 6 times worse, rather than just making the same claim over. Go ahead, I'll wait.

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u/Kammler1944 1d ago

You've obviously never been to China.

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u/Kammler1944 1d ago

I've lived in China, it's at least 3 times better in America. The average CHinese person would be considered poor by western standards.

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u/BertDeathStare 1d ago

Doubt that.

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u/IAm94PercentSure 2d ago

The answer to your second question is most definitely yes. The US has huge inequality but the standard of living is still a lot higher even for the poorest Americans.

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u/Kind_Resort_9535 3d ago

You think the quality of life in china and India is comparable to the US? China yes I believe, India though? Or are you saying the opposite?

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u/emoney_gotnomoney 2d ago

The opposite.

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u/CharonsLittleHelper 3d ago

It's not even THAT comparable for global influence.

You need excess wealth to have influence. Even subsistence level wages for 8-9x as many people is going to eat up most of that.

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u/aerodynamique 3d ago

Do...you think that China lacks global influence?

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u/CharonsLittleHelper 3d ago

Relative to the US? Yes.

They have influence. But China and India combined aren't yet close to the US's.

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u/aerodynamique 3d ago

Yeah, man, me too. This is why the U.S government is famously not concerned about China. Sorry for the image; I really don't know how to respond to this one LMAO

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u/ainz-sama619 2d ago

idk about india, but China is a big deal unfortunately

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u/CharonsLittleHelper 2d ago

It's probably #2 (if not counting EU as a whole) - but that's a big step down from #1's influence.

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u/Rexpelliarmus 3d ago

You are delusional.

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u/SPB29 3d ago

So by your logic Lechenstien has 10x the global influence China has?

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u/Primetime-Kani 3d ago

What country can afford not 1 super carrier battle group but a DOZEN of them?

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u/andyman744 3d ago

China.

The US has them but can't build them anymore.

EDIT this post is tongue in cheek. I'm well aware of the size difference of the fleets. Otoh look at the projections and that story is set to change by 2040s.

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u/Omegaprime02 3d ago

... CVN-79, the John F. Kennedy, is launching in 2027.

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u/Notallowedhe 2d ago

Shhh that goes against my agenda 😠

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u/probablyuntrue 3d ago

It’s too late, they’ve just stopped building, USA bad and forgot how to make them 😔

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u/Primetime-Kani 3d ago

Did the Ford class just fall from the sky to you? Also China doesn’t have 2 oceans on either side, they’ll match US navy in its backyard only by mid this century. But for global reach? Never!

All that manufacturing prowess just to hope in controlling their own region, and that’s their plan for the rest of our lifes.

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u/cerceei 3d ago

What do you mean by global reach? Is it just military power projection? Then yes, China doesn't have present or future plans to build 800 military bases around the world nor to be the world's police. But when it comes to economic power projection, China has reached every continent from middle Africa to South America to Mexico. They learned from the mistakes of USA same as they learned from the USSR.

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u/crimepais 3d ago

China can steal and copy. That's it.

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u/Deto 3d ago

You're looking for a GDP per-capita plot, but that's not what this plot is showing. That's a different plot - for a different purpose.

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u/Fun-Corner-887 3d ago

It's purchasing power per capita actually. Not GDP. Except for US since it's dollar anyways.

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u/Death_by_carfire 2d ago

It's still called GDP or GDP per capita, the units are just PPP instead of USD.

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u/xylopyrography 3d ago

In this world. This is the world where it's comparable and it matters significantly.

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u/myst1cal12 3d ago

Is there some restriction on what we're allowed to compare

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u/Lez0fire 3d ago

You can compare whatever you want, but if you compare apples to oranges, don't expect to extract any good conclusion from there.

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u/campionesidd OC: 1 3d ago

I don’t get this criticism. Should we compare the US and Iceland’s GDPs instead since they have comparable GDP per capita?

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u/myst1cal12 3d ago

What good conclusions do you think people are trying to draw here??? It's a comparison for fun to give a bare insight into how world economies compare in size, it's meant to be simple, fun and just not that deep for you to have a problem with it.

Even then, it's not like it's some crazy comparison to make, it's just large world economies, you don't have to have every disclaimer and asterix listed there. 

Do you think this is doing damage?

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u/Ovvr9000 3d ago

You’re arguing with a Redditor. There’s no point.

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u/Throwaway16475777 3d ago

that's always been an interesting saying, why can't you compare apples to oranges? How am i going to decide what to eat? woke nonsense

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u/spikeyfreak 3d ago

woke nonsense

LOL - woke is "living in your head rent free" if "you can't compare apples and oranges" is your idea of "woke."

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u/Grehjin 3d ago

That a country of 350 million people is outperforming 3 billion? It’s literally just perspective on how high the nominal gdp output of the US is (and by extension the nominal gdp per capita), I don’t know why that would be not allowed for comparison especially with the “China taking over everything” narrative that has been pervasive for like 2 decades.

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u/SilverCurve 3d ago

If we use PPP then China + India is about 2.5 times US. Nominal GDP mostly represents the fact that people like trading and investing in US dollar, and China keeping their currency low to gain export advantage.

Those could change very quickly. If China one day decides to become the center of investment and consumption, like they used to be before the 17th century, US would clearly be marked as #2, maybe even #3 if India does the same. That could even be good for US due to the dollar no longer be pushed so high and it’d be more profitable to manufacture in America.

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u/Grehjin 3d ago edited 3d ago

Yes everyone knows about PPP, the point is that the image is showing one thing and everyone else is clamoring for it to show another thing and saying it’s misleading because it’s not showing that thing they want. It’s not misleading, it’s showing one measurement of a complex topic.

To your other point China has been trying to desperately become a consumption economy for like a decade and it has mostly failed, so I don’t really know what you mean by “one day” when it already has. And in regards to investment, it will only be the “center for investment” when they don’t have a government that can seize your assets at will, i.e the end of the CCP as we know it. Until then it’s unlikely to happen

I’m not even disputing the entirety of what you’re saying, I’m just wishing people could stay on topic and actually engage with what’s being displayed or at the very least acknowledge they’re talking about a different thing

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u/randynumbergenerator 1d ago

Complex, reasoned discussions of macroeconomics and capital markets architecture, in this sub? Dream on, my man.

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u/V12TT 3d ago

Gdp ppp only works as a comparison for how well people live in their own country. When it comes to global power raw gdp and gdp per capita show a better picture.

Resources cost almost the same globally, raw talents costs the same, most high quality technology and devices cost the same.

Thats why a country of 300+ million can own multiple carrier groups, control most of the worlds internet traffic, have huge influence while something like India can barely project power outside their borders.

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u/polysemanticity 1d ago

This is hilariously dumb comment. How come nobody has brought this up to China yet? They’re gonna be pissed when they find out there was just this one simple trick to become the center of investment and consumption all along…

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u/SilverCurve 1d ago

China faces a lot of structural issues to raise consumption, they also partly don’t want to do make the sacrifices required to start the transition, at least not yet. In a short comment I couldn’t write down all the analyses from economists like Michael Pettis, about both China’s huge potential and unwillingness to make the change. My comment was also not meant to belittle the US. Nevertheless, the fact that the usd has huge advantage and the cny is artificially repressed has to be pointed out.

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u/aerodynamique 3d ago

You can really see the Bell-Curve here with people thinking that GDP is the end-all-be-all economic metric lmao

r/dataisbeautiful is, shockingly, not full of investors.

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u/Montigue 3d ago

Especially when one of the two countries has a GDP less than California

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u/Tentacle_poxsicle 3d ago

Past a certain point, having too many people can be a bad thing because more of your infrastructure goes to supporting that massive weight.

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u/Diamond1africa 3d ago

It is comparable if you're speaking of significance in the data. If you're stating a wrong opinion, then the answer you're looking for is in the real world, where that data is comparable.

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u/imsandy92 3d ago

colony of ants is compared to a snake in many stories.. so are thousands of bees to 10s of hornets. what is your point? if the op wanted to compare per capita he would show that.

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u/New2NewJ 3d ago

In what world is that comparable?

This is not at PPP, but in real USD.

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u/beatlemaniac007 2d ago

The trend? It's a chart over time, so the point is clearly the trend (a potentially continuing one) not a snapshot in time which is meaningless.

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u/yojifer680 3d ago

In the world of global south copium 

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u/moderngamer327 3d ago

But they’re both in the northern hemisphere?

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u/z64_dan 3d ago

About 90% of the world's population is in the northern hemisphere actually.