r/emergencymedicine ED Attending 11d ago

Advice Patients interpreting their own portal results

Attending physician new to practicing in a more affluent area. How are you all dealing with patients asking for explanations for each out-of-range lab result that popped up in their patient portal?

I’m finding this aspect of my new site to be very frustrating and time consuming to have to convince the patient why the google interpretation of their isolated eosinophilia or glucose of 100 does not align with my “Great news! Everything looks good!”

145 Upvotes

94 comments sorted by

517

u/meh817 ED Resident 11d ago

“My basophils are high” dawg I don’t even know what a basophil is anymore 😭

124

u/surecameraman UK SHO (PGY5) 11d ago

My least favourite leukocyte I have to say

At least with eosinophils I can be like “allergies, innit”. What do you even do with a slightly raised basophil count?

75

u/D15c0untMD 11d ago

But chatgpt said it could be parasites!!!1!1

28

u/DonkeyKong694NE1 Physician 11d ago

Or cancer or a connective tissue disorder or …….

57

u/ProfessionChemical28 11d ago

Nobody knows!!

12

u/opinionated_cynic Physician Assistant 11d ago

Nate Bargatze in the wild

58

u/the_silent_redditor 11d ago

CT pan scan clinical question: Basophillia ? Cause ? # ? Intra-cranial/thoracic/abdo/pelvic pathology

D/C H

35

u/mootmahsn Nurse Practitioner 11d ago

Cannot confirm or exclude basophilia. Incidental finding of 6mm lung nodule.

63

u/gottawatchquietones ED Attending 11d ago

If it's someone with a bunch of vague chronic complaints and some minor CBC thing that is out of range, who asks me if that thing could explain their symptoms, I say, "I don't know. It's possible. You need to see a specialist," and I give them the number for the hematology clinic. They're not going to believe me when I say it doesn't matter, so I might as well lean into it.

21

u/FollowUpWithPCP ED Attending 11d ago

Usually my approach, but I tell them to follow up with their PCP so they can determine "if any additional outpatient tests I can't do in an ER are needed."

-7

u/Boxofmagnets 11d ago

And by pawning it off you ruined someone else’s day

29

u/Old_Perception 10d ago

revenge for the asymptomatic HTN referrals

5

u/ratkween Trauma Team - BSN 9d ago

The cycle of violence continues 😞

5

u/CertainKaleidoscope8 RN 11d ago

I would be really tempted to ask them if they knew

5

u/ChaplnGrillSgt Nurse Practitioner 10d ago

Admit to Obs 🤷‍♂️

383

u/D15c0untMD 11d ago

„I know it seems off or scary if you see some elevated results. What i‘m looking for is certain patterns of elevated or depressed values, as isolated changes can be due to a multitude of reasons unrelated to your health status. For example, this one here is elevated, but only relevant if this one was also, etc. From my experience and training, this is an unremarkable report, in the best way.“

47

u/DetTech88 ED Attending 11d ago

I have a very similar explanation. I say that “normal range” means that most healthy people will fall in this range, but 1 in 20 healthy people will likely fall outside of it. You need to combine this results with other lab results to see if it’s significant, and since your values for x, y, and z are normal, and your results don’t follow any disease pattern, I’m confident in saying it’s nothing to worry about.

122

u/Princessgargoyle ED Attending 11d ago

Gold star of eloquence. My satisfaction scores are about to take off. Thank you kind stranger!

15

u/ProfessionChemical28 11d ago

Ooo this one is better than mine! I might steal it lol 

118

u/tfj92 ED Resident 11d ago

You guys should check out the hematology reddit its out of control with that crap

https://www.reddit.com/r/haematology/s/RZqLDPvmNh

78

u/Mohrisbetr 11d ago

Holy shit how would anyone stay subscribed to that

61

u/mayaorsomething 11d ago edited 11d ago

Took one peek at the subreddit and already found this gem of someone “needing help interpreting their CBC” because their appointment isn’t until next week.

The real sparkle comes from this exchange in the comments:

OP:

I will need to wait for the results of additional bloodwork and inform my GP in a week. I truly hope it's nothing serious such as the "C" word. I have been worrying constantly and felt quite unwell ovee the past 2 months.

MD:

The c word here is "cold". This looks like you have a cold.

ETA: And I mean no offense to that person; I feel like the big red numbers with upward arrows just simply should not be a thing for a patient’s MyChart view.

20

u/MrPBH ED Attending 10d ago

I have been saying that since the law came out: give the patients access to their lab results but take out all the red bolding, up and down arrows. Make a hyperlink at the bottom to reference values (so they have to navigate between two screens to compare numbers, but still have access to all relevant data).

The law says we have to give them access to the records. It doesn't say it has to contain any interpretation of the data.

7

u/mayaorsomething 10d ago edited 10d ago

Yeah it just seems like a laziness to correct the system, to be honest. It's so often a misleading interpretation of the data (in terms of what patients gather from it); not just a neutral addition... so it would seem like an obvious thing to fix. Maybe not enough people have complained about it.

41

u/tfj92 ED Resident 11d ago

I cant believe they interpret everything on there too lol

17

u/sum_dude44 11d ago

wrong is the best part

57

u/heart_block ED Attending 11d ago

Well, that's my personal hell

10

u/Princessgargoyle ED Attending 11d ago

Same

27

u/Princessgargoyle ED Attending 11d ago

This is where I should send them. Maybe make a QR code for the link to a community that will answer all of their hematological questions

14

u/tfj92 ED Resident 11d ago

We just need to find one where they do chemistry interpretation and we'll be set

18

u/metforminforevery1 ED Attending 11d ago

WHY IS MY CHLORIDE LOW??!

22

u/MarginalLlama Paramedic 11d ago

Ok, but solve my r/ekgs

17

u/mootmahsn Nurse Practitioner 11d ago

I'm making one that's similar but only apple watch tracings. You'll be the mod responsible for flairing each post as MI or NOT MI. I'll buy some advertising for the sub on some sicktok channels.

6

u/MarginalLlama Paramedic 10d ago

Hell yeah!! Can we get private equity in on this too?

9

u/mootmahsn Nurse Practitioner 10d ago

Do that and it'll be all NPs with one year of med surg experience and one MP who was hired after a typo on the AI prompt screening resumes.

5

u/MarginalLlama Paramedic 10d ago

I'm feeling healthier already. Now, how do I give all of my money to the rich?

5

u/mootmahsn Nurse Practitioner 10d ago

Great news: You already are!

6

u/MarginalLlama Paramedic 10d ago

Well, since that's accomplished, I no longer have any purpose in life...

6

u/mootmahsn Nurse Practitioner 10d ago

Not true at all! You still need to die suddenly before you develop any chronic conditions so you can maximize your utility to your insurer, preferably in a manner that precludes any form of resuscitation. Have you considered skydiving as a hobby? Free solo climbing? This is totally getting nailed by the reddit abuse and harassment filter, btw.

4

u/MarginalLlama Paramedic 10d ago

Too late. I’ve already got chronic depression, anxiety, adhd, ptsd, and more. I'm sure that they've loved paying for the years of therapy and medications 😂

Also, getting nailed sounds wonderful!! I kinda got distracted and didn't read the rest of your comment, but I'm sure you kept it pg enough.

17

u/heyinternetman EM/CCM/EMS Attending 11d ago

If the heme one is this bad, I can only imagine the rheumatology one. Sooooi much trendy bendy

11

u/karakth 11d ago

Post night shift disinhibition has me literally full on belly laughing at these posts. Thank you kind stranger

13

u/Ixistant ED Fellow 11d ago

I just saw someone asking about their high RCDW.

I'm not even convinced they taught us about RCDW at med school!

7

u/D15c0untMD 11d ago

Holy hell, that’s why the ortho subreddit kicks personal health questions

39

u/yurbanastripe ED Attending 11d ago

Patients shouldn’t be allowed to see all these labs with no context. It instigates sooooo much unnecessary health anxiety

32

u/nursingintheshadows 11d ago

I wish the results were posted like 24 hours later or released after discharge. That way, the PCM can answer. Who am I kidding, they’ll check in the next day for abnormal lab results while live on a social platform saying we’re killing them and dismissing their symptoms because of hair color and pajama pants.

9

u/sum_dude44 11d ago

Images are 10x worse (5mm hyperdensity in liver...

6

u/the_silent_redditor 11d ago

There’s some fucking dipshit new rad company that gives patients access to images and reports.

I’ve seen several people bring themselves to ED with bullshit like a renal cyst or anatomical variants found incidentally on their report.

Recently, had some guy put his unreported images through some sort of AI and rocks up to ED because he thought he had cancer.

The unverified report was a normal scan.

Who the fuck thinks this is a good idea!?

7

u/Resussy-Bussy 11d ago

That page just ruined my life thank you.

3

u/sum_dude44 11d ago

someone needs to make a bot that says ask your Dr...(these are hilarious...nl cbc w/ mildly low MCV...you NEED IRON!)

2

u/GreatMalbenego 10d ago

Holy shit what a wasteland

141

u/dbbo ED Attending 11d ago

This is the EMERGENCY department. The "slightly abnormal department" is located in your PCP'S office

29

u/Halome Trauma Team - RN 11d ago

Please tell me you actually say that to trust fund baby Becca and kick her out and dgaf about PG scores 😂😂😂

12

u/blinkinblueeyes Nurse Practiciner 11d ago

Haha I use “this is the emergency department, not the most likely department.”

3

u/mootmahsn Nurse Practitioner 11d ago

Time to curbside medicine rounds.

43

u/DocBanner21 11d ago

"There's outside the normal limits and there is BAD outside the normal limits. In this case, it's like the state trooper saw you doing 58 in a 55. Even they don't care about that. It doesn't normally matter."

7

u/Princessgargoyle ED Attending 11d ago

I like your style!

36

u/hbdgas 11d ago

Keep in mind normal ranges are usually 2 standard deviations, so we expect 5% of results in healthy individuals to be a bit out of range.

6

u/leo_jaden_melis 11d ago

I use this

63

u/Paputek101 Med Student 11d ago

Had a pt come in the other day bc they were angry that no one discussed their "abnl" labs with them... they showed me their printed out results of a hemoglobin of 11.7 from a few weeks back (in the ed their hb was above 12) and they were angry bc their ekg showed sinus brady (hr of 57). 

I think we ended up referring to primary care.

22

u/D15c0untMD 11d ago

I dont get up for anything asymptomatic above a 7

8

u/DonkeyKong694NE1 Physician 11d ago

Lemme guess - also a marathon runner?

65

u/Sad_Instruction_3574 11d ago

I trained in an extremely affluent area. I refuse to deal with those patients again. The county and low income population has their own challenges and sometimes it feels like talking to a rock but I’d take that haha.

41

u/Princessgargoyle ED Attending 11d ago

It is a unique freedom to simply do right by the patient

28

u/Playcrackersthesky BSN 11d ago

Right? Give me urban university hospital hell

9

u/Background-Nothing15 11d ago

As someone currently in urban university hospital hell this made me laugh and also made me feel better about working in said hell.

3

u/vladvorkuv 7d ago

Feeling strange applying talking about serving the underserved for my entire career. But 10 years of prehospital experience has taught me that my temperament does much better caring for people who are in a lower SES than those that have never had to lift a finger for anyone but themselves. I don't respond well to entitelement.

22

u/GreatMalbenego 11d ago

Honestly I’ve started bringing my phone in and just going through their workup with them and giving a very brief explanation, sometimes just saying “XYZ might mean blah blah but in your context it’s not relevant to evaluation of emergencies, which is what we’re doing here, but I’d recommend reviewing with your PCP”. “That’s not a specific lab and in your context doesn’t give me info about your complaint.” It puts it all to bed, answers most questions (or they forget all the whatabouts they were gonna say), and it leaves the patient satisfied.

Bonus: it protects medicolegally, makes sure I don’t forget to notify of an incidental imaging finding, ends up saving me time because I don’t get called back in after I’ve already had the discharge talk, and a lot of the time I inform the patient of something beneficial that for god knows why no one had told them. How tf people have never been told “you probably have chronic kidney disease” with elevated creat x5 years is beyond me.

Some of them like mildly elevated eosinophils have prompted me to come up with a reassuring one-liner that makes it an expedient process.

39

u/office_dragon 11d ago

This drives me insane and I firmly believe ED results should not be released to the patient until 24 hours after their visit. The number of times I’ve heard “my troponin is FIVE!!!!” (It’s high sensitivity, lowest we pick up is 3) is too damn high

56

u/Playcrackersthesky BSN 11d ago

My patients now get their lab results before I do. I’m in hell.

32

u/Princessgargoyle ED Attending 11d ago

That is exactly how my shop is set up too. They’ll get labs in triage and go back out to the waiting room. They’ll often have their lab results before they even get to tell me what brought them in.

6

u/No-Statistician-3053 9d ago

“MY SODIUM IS 133! YOU WERE JUST GOING TO LET ME DIE OUT HERE?” And other conversations I have often.

29

u/babiekittin 11d ago

"Some lab results may be put of range for what is considered "normal" due to a myriad of factors. Given your labs' slight elevation/depression outside of normal range, I would recommend we continue to monitor over the next year. I would propose you return for repeat labs in XX months."

Also, these seem to be my patients who will fix their diabetes using TikTok.

18

u/Princessgargoyle ED Attending 11d ago

This is a very kind and non-dismissive response, but I definitely won’t be inviting them back to the emergency department for a year of monitoring. I’m thinking that explaining that some labs are not applicable to their complaint/the emergency setting is the best way and deferring any further discussion to their PCP.

14

u/babiekittin 11d ago

Sorry, I thought this was r/familymedicine

If you're using Epic, you can set it up so tests result to the PCP of record and questions are sent to them. You can also modify the response so it directs them to follow up with their PCP for additional review.

Maybe....

"Some lab results may be put of range for what is considered "normal" due to a myriad of factors, some of which brought you to the Emergency Room. Unfortunately, I am unable to help follow up with additional diagnostic work, but I would encourage you to partner with your primary care provider.

If your PCP is outside of our network, they can request the labs and notes from your recent visit and review them."

5

u/MarginalLlama Paramedic 11d ago

Idk, the ED I work in, has an appointment for me every weekend. 😉

27

u/N64GoldeneyeN64 11d ago

Your tests contain results that arent applicable to the emergency setting. If youd like further explaination, your PCP is a great place to start

5

u/Princessgargoyle ED Attending 11d ago

This is the way

10

u/pedunculated5432 11d ago

"I know something is wrong, and you can't tell me otherwise because I looked at my bloods and my urea is low!"

9

u/tccrouch ED Attending 11d ago

Most of these are from the diff on the cbc or low values on the chemistry that don’t matter. I tell them that those are only worrisome when combined with other problems that they don’t have and point to the other things that are normal and reassuring. Refocusing on the normal creatinine or white blood cell count usually helps. Mild electrolyte abnormalities I offer a brief course (5ish days) of replacement. Otherwise just do as the other commenters say and tell them that those are not emergencies and they can see their pcp to discuss further.

17

u/Temperance522 11d ago edited 11d ago

"Great news! Everything looks good!" might be how you see it, but sadly it isn't comforting to an anxious patient. When they're going through the portal, they're trying to absorb a lot of information.

It might help to be more informative in your reply: "In the context of all your other labs, this elevation is understood as only slightly out of range, which is a normal occurrence and non-concerning when taken as part of the overall picture. We can be reassured by these results as a whole that there is not an acute situation presenting. If you are concerned about an ongoing process that needs medical attention, I invite you to schedule an appointment with your PCP to can address these concerns in an outpatient process?"

In sum, "You're great" feels dismissive because you aren't addressing the central issue: the anxiety.

In these situations, it can work better if you put your normal "logical" focus on the back burner and switch to an emotional focus, which is equally valid.

People often find that if you lead with accurate empathy and tell them what you can do, you get out of the room quicker.

-A clinical psychologist

8

u/DickMagyver ED Attending 10d ago

Almost as bad as when they get a hold of the EKG fresh off the machine & it says “inferior infarct, age undetermined.”

9

u/sum_dude44 11d ago

I had a pt argue their nl CBC was worrisome b/c pt normally has leukopenia (last 3 cbc's were nl too). Pt wanted antibiotics

5

u/LoveDogsTx Paramedic 11d ago

Refer to pcp and explain that there is no life threat presented at this time. You are an ED doc. Not a general physician. I think most people are confused as to what the “emergency” room is for. Diagnostic tests for immediate emergent life threatening conditions, with or without presentation is what is looked for

They need to have a clear understanding it is not your job to interpret their condition (unless it is emergent) 🤷🏻‍♂️

5

u/Kaitempi 11d ago

Hand them this.

5

u/Forward-Razzmatazz33 10d ago

Oh, you're triggering me. I recently had to explain why an isolated monocyte % less than 1% out of normal was not an emergency (absolute count was normal).

5

u/gruffudd725 11d ago

I just bring up the results on the computer in the room and go over them individually if they have concerns. Doesn’t generally take super long

2

u/CedarSpirit1 9d ago

OMG, my bilirubin is slightly elevated, and chatgpt says it may be liver failure?!

When was the last time you drank water?

I think Nixon was president. Why?

..... ChatGPT is the new WebMD

3

u/StrangePlatypus99 8d ago

This is when I remind the patient that I am an emergency physician, and that my job is to rule out any acute, life-threatening pathology. I then gently suggest that these kinds of questions would be a great thing to ask their PCP about!

1

u/Special-Box-1400 11d ago

You need to go identify the ROOT cause of the illness that will explain all there minor lab abnormalities and the secret to a healthy life they have been missing, Chiropractor and Naturopathic/ functional doctors do a much better job than Emergency medicine doctors at finding the ROOT cause of a patient's illness.

1

u/lavender_poppy RN 8d ago

This is sarcasm right?

-6

u/GlumDisplay 11d ago

Just ask chat gpt to come up with a simple explanation for any out of whack labs with an emphasis on downplaying