r/europe Slovenia May 14 '25

Data UK Citizens Supports Rejoining the European Union

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u/Jedibeeftrix May 14 '25 edited May 14 '25

Lol, always a pointless exercise as long as you ask the question absent any context:

Q. "Would you like more things?"

A. "Yay!"

Versus:

Q. "Would you like to rejoin the EU if it also means; no opt-outs from the euro/schenghen/eurojust/bailout-mechanisms. You also get freedom of movement and the promise of ever-closer-union in terms of supranational political integration? Oh, and the rebate is gone baby."

A. "...Erghh!"

85

u/[deleted] May 14 '25

[deleted]

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u/Jedibeeftrix May 14 '25

Personally, I don't want to rejoin.

10

u/Longjumping_Edge3622 May 14 '25

Nor me. If it were seriously proposed there would be another angry fight and the end result would be way closer than these YouGov figures.

1

u/[deleted] May 14 '25

[deleted]

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u/Jedibeeftrix May 14 '25 edited May 14 '25

@indisin - If that's your take then fair enough, I really do want to rejoin for one personal reason: me and my partner wanted to do a few of years as digital nomads. 6 months on 6 months off. As I'm also an Aussie now, my British passport is useless unless I wanna move back to the UK, which I do not.

you will understand, i hope, if i don't discard my principles on the best way to implement representative and accountable governance for UK citizens, in order to accomodate your gap year jaunt across european borders?

particularly to someone who's sole attachment to british citizenship appears to be the utility of the passport in taking him elsewhere! :D

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u/[deleted] May 14 '25

[deleted]

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u/Jedibeeftrix May 14 '25

i was being a little glib. :)

1

u/ChompyChomp May 14 '25

(Just chiming in to comment that I really appreciate the civility in this exchange.)

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u/[deleted] May 14 '25

[deleted]

28

u/AuroraHalsey United Kingdom May 14 '25

This is /r/Europe, not /r/europeanunion

Do you want to kick out the Swiss and Norwegians too?

35

u/Arbiterze England May 14 '25

The subreddit is europe, not european union.

16

u/PoloniumPaladin May 14 '25

Are Norwegians not allowed here either?

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u/[deleted] May 14 '25

[deleted]

8

u/PoloniumPaladin May 14 '25

The EU isn't the point of the subreddit any more than the African Union is the point of /r/africa. This subreddit is about Europe, not the EU.

3

u/scarydan365 May 14 '25

This is the Europe subreddit not the EU subreddit.

8

u/iDemonix May 14 '25

Apparently you need to research on the difference between Europe and the EU. I know the Scottish education system has issues, but christ...

0

u/[deleted] May 14 '25

[deleted]

7

u/Think_Grocery_1965 South Tyrol - zweisprachig May 14 '25

that's settled then. Hopefully the remainers stop moaning about it sometime next year.

1

u/MoistM4rco May 14 '25

why not just have the pound be a reskinned euro

0

u/Yaarmehearty May 14 '25

I'm not sure the pound will be that much of a pain point in the future.

We are already a hugely cashless society, more so than a lot of other countries so the look of money isn't as much of an issue.

Beyond that there always seems to be complaints about the government/BOE and how they manage monetary policy, having a different body setting it is less scary when confidence in the people already doing it is low.

27

u/PeterServo Poland May 14 '25

Technically you can prolong joining Eurozone forever. There's a handful of EU countries which do that.

23

u/Jedibeeftrix May 14 '25

And do you think that would be a good basis for allowing UK accession?

"We were a pain your ass for the last thirty years, and there is a large core of skepticism that remains for the core project of Ever Closer Union, but can you let us back in on the basis that we won't take part in the integration process...?"

4

u/Thoth_the_5th_of_Tho May 14 '25

Yes? The pound is objectively a valuable and useful thing to have, and adopting the euro offers no upside to either the EU or UK. Delayed indefinitely suits everyone best.

And EU federalism ins't happening with or without the UK. If it was ever going to happen, it was going to happen early. It's a great idea, in an ideal world, it would have happened. But we very clearly are not heading in that direction.

2

u/Jedibeeftrix May 14 '25 edited May 14 '25

I have to say that I am skeptical that the EU would be interested in letting us back in on the explicit basis that we're entirely resolved to continue our euroskeptic and anti-integration ways!

2

u/HauntingHarmony 🇪🇺 🇳🇴 w May 14 '25

Yea, i think people think about the UK rejoining all wrong. "Keeping the pound" or "schengen" or whatever are downstream questions of "should we join the eu".

And the "should we join the eu" is not going to be a relevant question until there has been a reckoning in the uk where the media, political establishment (in all the parties) have dealt with the lies, consequences, etc. Since if there is a chance that the next pm can come in and just tear it all up again, its not worth the effort to get you in.

Once that has happend, we are talking about a climate where instead of 55% of people are for it, we are talking about 75-80% or so are for it. And they will trust the government todo their best to negotiate and prepare for joining. Petty questions like "the pound" or "schengen" then wont really matter.

The UK is just not joining until it is joining in a fulsome and good faith way. And exactly, being euroskeptical and anti-integration in the eu wont happen, since you wont have had that reckoning yet.

1

u/Gefarate Sweden May 14 '25

Wouldn't the UK getting the Euro make the currency a bigger player on the world stage? Mby countries would use it as a reserve currency instead of USD

1

u/Thoth_the_5th_of_Tho May 14 '25

The main influence of the GBP comes from its use internationally. That use would not transfer over to the euro clearly, and for most of its international users, switching to the dollar would be more likely. The euro would see an increase, but not as big as the US’s.

1

u/PeterServo Poland May 14 '25

I'd say they would get an opt-out anyway.

1

u/silent_cat The Netherlands May 14 '25

Nobody gives a shit if the UK joins the Eurozone or not. Really.

Agreeing to pinky promises on paper that you never intend to do is just politics.

1

u/Jedibeeftrix May 14 '25

Who's nobody?

Pretty sure the Commission and Council are not among those nobodies! :D

1

u/araujoms 🇧🇷🇵🇹🇦🇹🇩🇪🇪🇸 May 14 '25

And I'm pretty sure you're wrong about the Commission and Council.

1

u/Jedibeeftrix May 14 '25

Surely there would endless screeds on the moral inuiquities of 'cakism'? :D

0

u/araujoms 🇧🇷🇵🇹🇦🇹🇩🇪🇪🇸 May 14 '25

The euro is already de facto optional. It doesn't matter, really. The idea that the EU wants to force the UK to adopt the euro is Brexiteer propaganda. As an EU citizen, believe me: nobody cares.

What is non-negotiable are the four freedoms: goods, services, capital, labour (aka freedom of movement). If you want some but not others then we'll complain about cherry-picking and refusing to make a deal.

1

u/Jedibeeftrix May 14 '25

Defacto / Dejure.

Not sure i'm gonna roll on a Defacto interpretation in the teeth of a surpanational union that fetishises regulatory compliance!

https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/policies/join-the-euro-area/

All EU member states are in principle obliged to introduce the euro once they fulfil the convergence criteria. The only exception is Denmark, which has an 'opt-out clause' in the EU treaties, exempting the country from the obligation to adopt the euro.

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u/araujoms 🇧🇷🇵🇹🇦🇹🇩🇪🇪🇸 May 14 '25

De jure there is no deadline for adopting the euro, de jure there is no mechanism for forcing a member state to adopt the euro.

If you want to believe otherwise it's pure wishful thinking.

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u/Zarbua69 May 14 '25

None of those countries have left and rejoined the EU. If the UK ever decides to come crawling back, it will not be receiving any special privileges.

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u/Gromchy Switzerland May 14 '25

True. And you also realize how just the way you formulate a question can influence the answer.

1

u/Jedibeeftrix May 14 '25

Well indeed.

3

u/kahlzun May 14 '25

Reminds me of the Simpsons where they are asking whether they want zany cartoon antics or down-to-earth real world problems and the kids go nuts for both

1

u/Jedibeeftrix May 14 '25

haha, yes. :D

1

u/untruth-social-6666 May 14 '25

Do you believe that everything the EU does and implements is correct? If you say yes, I won’t believe you.

Countries that fall under the EU still have rights and should and can still bring in their own rules and legislation.

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u/KardanAYY Sweden (Norrbotten) May 14 '25

He just outlined what every other EU member agrees to, because the British got a ton of special privileges last time around.

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u/Jedibeeftrix May 14 '25

^ he gets it ^

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u/JustTheAverageJoe United Kingdom May 14 '25

Why did the UK have a rebate?

2

u/KardanAYY Sweden (Norrbotten) May 14 '25

...Because it was a net contributor to the union???

1

u/JustTheAverageJoe United Kingdom May 14 '25

Far more complex than that I'm afraid, and difficult to argue against if you knew the details

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u/KardanAYY Sweden (Norrbotten) May 14 '25

Yeah, sorry. I misunderstood exactly what you were referring to. The UK rebate was due to Britain's comparatively small agricultural sector in comparison to the rest of the EEC.

If that's the "rebate" you're referring to

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u/r0thar Leinster May 14 '25

because the British got a ton of special privileges last time around.

When accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression

0

u/[deleted] May 14 '25

[deleted]

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u/r0thar Leinster May 14 '25

Everyone, please forgive this poor englishperson, they are not educated in their own history, and don't know why Ireland was screwed over for 800 years. They still think they can talk like an Empire.

0

u/untruth-social-6666 May 14 '25

Errrrr, I’m Irish! Lived in England since childhood.

History is history, so the English go on about the French in 1066? No! They’ve moved on, do the same! It didn’t affect you so why mention it!

0

u/r0thar Leinster May 14 '25

I’m Irish! Lived in England since childhood.

So English (or plastic at best)

the English go on about the French in 1066?

the English go on about the Germans in 1966 The Unionists go on about 1690 every July. Cute to pick an invasion start date but Ireland hasn't even celebrated the centenary of its independence yet.

It didn’t affect you so why mention it!

Being accused of scrounging by a bunch of EU rebate lovers is an effect. Ireland did get necessary funding from the EU for infrastructure (see 800 years) but has been paying more to the EU than it gets back since 2013.

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u/untruth-social-6666 May 14 '25

The hell we did, we were one of the largest contributors but took little out

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u/KardanAYY Sweden (Norrbotten) May 14 '25

Part of the deal with the EU was that people who could spare money to help those born in poorer countries would.

But to you visa free travel, single unified market, giant university exchange programs, cultural programs etc. are worthless.

-1

u/untruth-social-6666 May 14 '25

Don’t recall saying that.

The likes of Germany and France are the main contributors to the EU, with wealth comes special privileges, and the special privilege is to make decisions for the rest of the EU because of power and wealth

1

u/KardanAYY Sweden (Norrbotten) May 14 '25

You did imply it though, by claiming that you put in more than you gained, which I disagree with.

Well, they make decisions for the rest of the EU because they have larger populations.

1

u/untruth-social-6666 May 14 '25

Look at the numbers, Ireland, Portugal and Greece all got bailed out by the eu as they over spent based on there income and needed help.

I get that’s what the eu is for, but the wealthier countries need protection also

1

u/KardanAYY Sweden (Norrbotten) May 14 '25

The portuguese and greeks mistook the eurozone for an infinite source of cash and abused it. Thusly, they suffer the consequences of their actions.

They get protection through each other, strength in numbers. Alone, any european country is quite weak, but together we're equal in economy to china.

1

u/Jedibeeftrix May 14 '25

See reply from KardanAYY.

1

u/untruth-social-6666 May 14 '25

Why? That individual has a misguided opinion

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u/Jedibeeftrix May 14 '25

No, he was absolutely correct:

"He just outlined what every other EU member agrees to, because the British got a ton of special privileges last time around."

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u/untruth-social-6666 May 14 '25 edited May 14 '25

That’s because we were one of the largest contributors, don’t think that the EU is a level playing field, that’s extremely delusional. France and Germany run the EU and the rest of the minions do as they are told.

0

u/Jedibeeftrix May 14 '25

agreed. but franco german 'engine' rules the EU not just because they are the largest, but beecause they are the largest [and] lean into the integrationist mandate of the Commission and Council.

2

u/untruth-social-6666 May 14 '25

For their own benefit naturally. They don’t do it out of charity.

2

u/Jedibeeftrix May 14 '25

i don't disagree.

in fact, i am unsure what we might be disagreeing about?

2

u/untruth-social-6666 May 14 '25

Looks like we are on the same page! I’m obviously from the UK, I didn’t vote for Brexit, and will always advocate being part of Europe.

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u/[deleted] May 14 '25

UK would never adopt the euro the pound is like the one good thing it has going for it

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u/Jedibeeftrix May 15 '25

but, you know, we'd be obliged to sign up to it.

0

u/Dizzy_Gear9200 May 14 '25

You mean like transparency with promises like the Brexit bus?

3

u/Jedibeeftrix May 14 '25

This is a canard:

It was a political campaign and both sides played to their strengths and downplayed their weaknesses.

Remain flat-out lied every bit as much as Leave in the way they downplayed future political and economic integration, not to mention the absudist claims to economic doom in the event of voting to leave.

4

u/Dizzy_Gear9200 May 14 '25

Wow. You really believe this.  This is like meeting someone who says „intelligent design“ and evolution theory are competing scientific theories. 

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u/Jedibeeftrix May 14 '25

great that you think so.

there is no moral or intellectual obligation to support suprnational union with political and economic integration via EU membership.

it is a political choice like any other; some will support it (and advocate in favour), others will disagree.

4

u/Dizzy_Gear9200 May 14 '25

Can you name one lie told by the remain camp with source, that is equally stupid as making up a number and lying this much money can be spent on public health while neither the number was based on any facts nor was there any intention to improve the public health system?

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u/Jedibeeftrix May 14 '25

Since we're basing this argument on the NHS claim on the bus, it is only fair to point out that health spending reached and exceeded the claim on the bus in the years succeeding brexit.

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u/Dizzy_Gear9200 May 14 '25 edited May 14 '25

After Brexit, the UK government did increase NHS funding. Theresa May pledged an extra £20.5 billion by 2023/24, and more increases have followed. But it’s misleading to say this money directly came from Brexit savings. In reality, the economic damage from Brexit (estimated at around a 4% GDP loss) has far outweighed any savings from leaving the EU.

So: NHS funding did rise, but the £350 million claim was never fully realized, and the broader economic picture makes the “Brexit dividend” largely a myth.

Still waiting for the lies from the remain camp. 

You are being lied to by crazy right-wing charlatans. They don’t even believe in liberal economic theory  

6

u/Jedibeeftrix May 14 '25

4% is a canard:

This was always an end reduction in future net growth over a ten/fifteen year horizon.

And the 'damage' was predicated in large put due to reduced immigration rather than increased trade friction. There was no reduction in immigration.

So the 'cost' brexit doesn't exist; there has been no 4% reduction in ecomomic output. And there never will be, because the assumptions the [model] was built on are not accurate.

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u/Dizzy_Gear9200 May 14 '25 edited May 14 '25

 Of course. Not accurate. So did Britain profit from Brexit economically or not? The additional investment was most likely due to compensating for the resulting inflation and lack of skilled labour.  Obviously 350mio. was the wrong number. So what about the lies from the remain camp?

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u/cassidyc3141 May 14 '25

"Q. "Would you like to rejoin the EU if it also means; no opt-outs from the euro/schenghen/eurojust/bailout-mechanisms, and the promise of ever-closer-union in terms of political integration? Oh, and the rebate is gone baby.""

Where do I sign up?? I have no strong ties to the Pound, it's just a piece of paper that, in current society, we are seeing less and less of (and we can still have our "heroes" on it).

Passportless travel in and out of the mainland, brilliant no queues (unless you're really british and love your queues)

Eurojust - Do we not think criminal justice cooperation is a bad thing (or is that only the tax dodging UK billionaires??)

Bailout - part and parcel of general economics, did we not bailout our UK banks at great expense (and now we're thinking about removing all to protections that we put in place to prevent another instance)

Closer Union - take a look around the rest of the world, a stronger Europe is no bad thing given our "Allies" and enemies.

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u/Jedibeeftrix May 14 '25

I'm delighted for you that you should hold such views. Entirely reasonable for you to do so.

Do you believe these warm sentiments are widely held?

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u/cassidyc3141 May 14 '25

oh absolutely not. I have no doubt that my Europe unionism, is fairly unique. I just don't have a problem with the issues as mentioned in your comment, though I totally understand that others do not and will never feel the same way.

I just don't see them as "negatives" enough to stop re-joining from my POV, that's not to say that there exists another issue, as yet undiscovered, that could change my mind