r/europe Slovenia May 14 '25

Data UK Citizens Supports Rejoining the European Union

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u/Possible_Trouble_216 May 14 '25 edited May 14 '25

The likes of Elon cunt have also invested a lot of money into anti immigration propoganda in Europe and UK

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u/Didsterchap11 United Kingdom May 14 '25

Astroturfing is a huge issue that I feel we’re not prepared to talk about.

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u/NickEcommerce May 14 '25

It's hard to talk about because it undermines our core beliefs. I can't operate my day assuming that the comment you wrote was created by a Chinese citizen working in a content farm, specifically to make me think that way I'm currently thinking.

By the same token, you can't read my response and by default assume that I'm a russian using AI to talk to you. Humans aren't wired to be that skeptical for that much of their social interactions.

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u/somersault_dolphin May 14 '25

And that is why people who are blindly pro-AI are incredibly shortsighted.

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u/killerbanshee United States of America May 14 '25 edited May 14 '25

There was a recent study done about how easy it is to manipulate people with AI.

One example I can think of off the top of my head is how the AI can read the entire comment and post history of the person it's responding to and then tailor the answer to be more persuasive. It can instantly compare any situation to a local issue that specific person would be more familiar with or has commented on before. It can also use those comments to anticipate their rebuttals and prepare a counter before they even thought up the argument.

This is not something people can do for every single comment and small social interaction. It's a real problem.

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u/Delicious-Trip-384 May 14 '25

Shitty Nigerian prince emails have worked for 25+ years; just imagine the scamming opportunities when the scammer's bots can actually speak decent English and scrape social media of the target to speak on specific details of them.

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u/skelebob May 14 '25

They're meant to be bad English because it weeds out the people smart enough to detect that it's a scam. It's also possibly a signature; those Facebook chain posts that say "copy to your timeline don't share" usually have a certain spelling mistake so people can search for that spelling mistake and find whoever copied the chain post for targeted scamming.

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u/Delicious-Trip-384 May 14 '25

That makes a lot of sense, I've never thought of it that way.

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u/new_accnt1234 May 14 '25

So if profiles are ser to private and history isnr visible, then this cannot be done

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u/killerbanshee United States of America May 14 '25

True, but if an AI is constantly scraping data then it already has your comments because it's taking down the info in basically real time, so they won't need to access your comment history. They're scanning all of Reddit right now all on their own.

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u/new_accnt1234 May 14 '25

This is easily solved by a new account set right away to private, this is a new account of me anyway

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u/killerbanshee United States of America May 15 '25

The AI is logging this conversation as it happens, comment history doesn't matter. Maybe in the future I don't see speech patterns and other things that could link accounts together.

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u/Raangz May 14 '25

fucking hell. very scary.

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u/laseluuu May 14 '25

That's not my experience, my experience is AI fans actually DO realise a lot about bot farms and the dangers we are facing, and are generally very tech literate

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u/Deynai May 14 '25

It's not about being tech literate though. I think actually it's the tech literate people who are especially vulnerable to not understanding it.

You need to see first hand what happens to an ordinary non-tech literate person when they are presented with AI generated content, see them genuinely unable to see the difference or understand that it's not a real person behind it. That's when it really sinks in.

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u/Life-Active6608 Brno (Czechia) May 14 '25

Uh? Why? Logically explain with cause and effect why the tech literate, aka: the people who read the actual documentation for this stuff, would be more vulnerable.

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u/Deynai May 14 '25

I feel like you read the first sentence and immediately hit reply without stopping to read the rest. If you still don't get it after reading it fully, and my other reply, ask a more specific question and I can elaborate.

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u/Life-Active6608 Brno (Czechia) May 15 '25

I am someone who has to take care of seniors who do not get tech at a daily basis.

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u/laseluuu May 14 '25

I don't follow, we are very aware of what it can do to people who can't understand the difference

I think it's just a certain person that thinks they are clever and some people are stupid or something, and that is also ok in some way

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u/Deynai May 14 '25

It's not about being aware, it's about truly understanding. It's in the difference between someone doing a thought experiment about "people will think this is real" vs seeing the real life situation of an intelligent ordinary person that is not tech literate believing something, and even if they are told it is AI, do not fully understand what that is or what it means or what it implies about the content they just saw.

I think tech literate people are great at the statistical thought experiments but are often out of touch with exactly how big and real of a problem it is as they don't directly see the humans who are being affected.

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u/laseluuu May 14 '25

I'd like to see a poll of tech literate people, i'm guessing the majority of people know someone (at least one, if not more) that gets bamboozled by AI content, i've got 2 friends that do, for example, and social media is rife with people that we see in comment sections all the time

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u/FlashyHeight9323 May 14 '25

This person is conflating ai with propaganda, deep fakes, bot farms, and the like. AI mostly just means LLMs. Now with llms you can create more convincing propaganda lines for your bots to leave comments or give upvotes and downvotes to the things you like and don’t like which improves the quality of your propaganda, which, if it is a deep fake, can massively reinforce how someone can come to believe something obviously fake to be real.

But calling that entire apparatus “AI” or “AI content” massively misses the early days of the 2010s where Steve Bannon and the billionaires behind Breitbart were doing it by hand, one blatantly racist article at a time.

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u/somersault_dolphin May 14 '25

Someone being personally aware of the harm something can cause doesn't mean on average that is how the tech is going to interact with society. The danger is how the tech interacts with society as a whole, not on an individual. If someone who's more tech literate assumes other people's experience are going to be remotely similar to theirs then they aren't actually understanding the implication of the tech.

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u/glenn_ganges May 14 '25

This is a social media problem not at AI problem.

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u/somersault_dolphin May 14 '25

This is a society's problem. It's a misinformation problem (among many others) on a unprecedent scale that is being caused by AI and would be impossible without AI. You're the equivalent of someone saying global warming isn't man-made, while entirely ignoring everything about the alarming rate it's happening, which is definitely man-made.

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u/SpeedCameraMan May 14 '25

I think the honest answer is; I CAN afford to be like that, because you're just a reddit post to me.

The chances that you're a decent, reasonable, real person are unknown to me. All I do know is that there is a steady increase of ai-driven bot accounts, and paid bad acting online.

The real conversation people aren't ready for is; to improve our quality of life and the quality of our politics, people need to get offline where these manipulations can happen. They need to get involved in real, face-to-face, local politics. Get to know their neighbors again.

The internet is becoming an unusable wasteland, and the sooner we understand that, the sooner we can turn our attention elsewhere.

I don't think that will happen though, because the internet is also addictive. It's SUPER easy dopamine hits over and over again.

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u/thedifferenceisnt May 14 '25

This isn't a social interaction

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u/humanprogression May 14 '25

People hate when i say this, but I think we need to eliminate anonymity on the internet. Democracy literally can’t function because of the astroturfing and botted disinformation.

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u/DucksElbow May 14 '25

Thanks comrade… I mean, mate.

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u/CormoranNeoTropical May 14 '25

Really? I guess I grew up in a really low trust environment. I don’t believe anything unless there’s some serious backing for it. I’m just here to avoid boredom.

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u/motoxim May 15 '25

Yeah I don't know how many of Reddit users are bots, AI, or buzzers.

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u/paupaupaupaup May 14 '25

Damn straight. That bitch always cuts up my legs when I go for a sliding tackle.

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u/Liam_021996 May 14 '25

It's the fucking worst as a goalkeeper who plays on 4g pitches. No matter what I do, I end up with my legs absolutely shredded

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u/NorysStorys May 14 '25

David Cameron said it’s a controversy waiting to happen a decade ago and yet somehow it still hasn’t.

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u/gunnesaurus United States of America May 14 '25

In the US, we would call it election interference and sanction the crap out of that person and businesses

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u/the_simurgh May 14 '25

We aren't. I've been attacked numerous times on reddit for even mentioning it.

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u/Didsterchap11 United Kingdom May 14 '25

I mean I’ve seen it with my own eyes, dozens of accounts made only made a few months ago who have no posts and only exist to argue on political subreddits, almost always trying to push far right drivel.

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u/the_simurgh May 14 '25

It has been admitted in the news and intelligence reports, but nobody believes it.

It can't happen here. Lol, as if that was a preventative.

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u/buzziebee May 14 '25

Yeah it's so obvious but when I call them out when no one else seems to believe it or back me. So I just get some snide replies and down votes.

The other day no one else thought it was weird that two brand new accounts are making up 40% of the comments on a labour subreddit and posting only reform talking points and agreeing with each other.

Previously they had stuck to Karina farming on just one or two subreddits before switching into propaganda mode.

Reform only started when a flood of bots started spamming YouTube and a few other platform ms comment sections with their drivel. It's "grassroots" is entirely artificial AstroTurf™.

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u/Didsterchap11 United Kingdom May 14 '25

It’s so frustrating, it could be so easily solved by implementing a basic comment karma filter, half of these accounts don’t even have any positive form of karma but they keep posting none the less.

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u/buzziebee May 14 '25

That would be a start, but a lot of these accounts will spend some time building up a "legit" looking account history for a month or two before switching into propaganda mode.

I've seen it called out a bunch of times on reposted content. One bot account will repost something that did really well on a subreddit exactly a year ago, then a bunch of accounts will repost the top performing comments from that previous post. It's all automated and synchronised. I assume they also upvote each others comments and posts to get them rising. Then real users will see what were originally good content and continue upvoting. It's dead internet theory in action.

Once there's enough karma and realistic looking history they'll switch over to pushing divisive propaganda. I can't think of any realistic way of stopping that kind of behaviour that doesn't break how the site works for normal users or violates privacy concerns.

Even if all "real" users became vastly more competent at spotting fakes and some kind of robust reporting and banning process were implemented it's such a firehose of data to sift through that it's unrealistic to expect it to work. Plus the arms race would just mean the bot makers tweak their programs to obfuscate things further.

Without linking accounts to government issued IDs and banning those IDs across platforms when caught botting I don't think it's possible to prevent bots, and no one in their right mind would encourage that kind of social credit system.

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u/Mammoth-Macaron-9951 May 14 '25

It’s not anything new. All this stuff was happening in 2015/16. This site was even gamed so bad by Bernie super pac it never switched off from over a decade ago. You would even see the same comments posting the exact same stuff from2016/15 in 2024.Next time you see people really wan tell you just how democratic and good they are but also have a seething rage for anyone who isn’t them just like trump wonks. Sites so bad with the “progressive” trump propaganda. I feel bad for the folks who go wrecked by Bernie.

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u/RuySan Portugal May 14 '25

Being anti immigration is the least of these parties issues. Being anti democracy is the main issue

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u/[deleted] May 14 '25

[deleted]

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u/Inevitable_Price7841 United Kingdom May 14 '25

Precisely! They use the media to scaremonger and enrage people, and then they offer the "solution" in exchange for giving up your rights.

In the U.k., the Reform party are offering to get rid of all the immigrants and all it will cost is us leaving the ECHR (which protects our human rights), giving up our free healthcare (the NHS), and allowing them to deregulate our economy to "stimulate growth" (but this will mean handing control of employee protections [wages, hiring and firing laws, guaranteed holidays/sickness days] to the mega corporations). Obviously, this is unacceptable if you have even half a brain in your head, but some naive idiots think it's a good offer!?

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u/[deleted] May 14 '25

Then why not offer a solution that includes control of immigration without all of those things?

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u/Inevitable_Price7841 United Kingdom May 15 '25

Because Reform doesn't have any solutions. Their only goal is to use the Immigration issue to get elected. Then, once they're in power, they will sell us out to the American billionaire owned mega corporations who have been desperate to buy and privatise our country's assets for decades.

Also, Immigration is being reduced, and new laws are being put in place to make future Immigration more difficult. Progress is being made, but you can't just end Immigration overnight without causing a national skilled labour shortage, but Reform can't explain how their policies would actually work without destroying our economy. They are basically a meme party that has been sane-washed by certain news outlets, and now people are seeing them as viable candidates to run the country.

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u/Lunaris_Von_Sunrip May 14 '25

That's the issue they like using to bring people in and either keep them distracted or use as a hook to feed other propoganda

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u/TheResistanceVoter May 14 '25

What's that weird odor? It must be the musk

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u/Ali_Cat222 May 15 '25

And don't forget Mark Zuckerberg, who had that entire trial for meta in the UK right now because of the Cambridge data security.

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u/Interesting_Try8375 United Kingdom May 14 '25

A lot of the UK didn't like immigrants during the previous Labour government, it isn't new.

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u/DataGOGO Scotland May 14 '25

do you have a real source for that claim?

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u/a1055x May 15 '25

Bannon glory hole

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u/Mission_Blackberry_7 May 15 '25

When people writes about anti immigration propaganda, I simply invert it and then I see pro emigration propaganda coming from our own pockets... I do not believe : 'Immigration is good' is well sold to people especially working class denizens of UK. They are hit the hardest, not libs that lives in gated communities.

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u/CharlieeStyles May 14 '25

Portugal, a country with 10 million people, has received 1.5 million immigrants since the pandemic.

You don't need to feed any propaganda. These numbers are insane and people everywhere are obviously fed up with it.

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u/The_Artist_Who_Mines May 14 '25

Case in point ☝️

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u/The__Jiff May 14 '25

1.5 million immigrants since the pandemic.

Is there a source for that?

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u/CharlieeStyles May 14 '25

Official government numbers AKA that's just the legal ones

https://www.dn.pt/sociedade/n%C3%BAmero-de-imigrantes-em-portugal-sobe-para-15-milh%C3%A3o

Add to that illegal ones (which being generous let's say it's 500k) plus foreigners with Portuguese citizenship, either before arriving (of which there are a ton in Brazil) or since (which removes them from this number) and most likely 1/4 of the current population of Portugal is not Portuguese.

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u/The__Jiff May 14 '25

Sounds awesome, attracting that many tax payers into the country must mean Portuguese are great people to be around.

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u/noticingmore May 14 '25

invested a lot of money into anti immigration propoganda in Europe and UK

How much money has been pumped into pro immigration propaganda though?

It's been decades of "it's all sunshine and rainbows" and it's taken truly awful things happening over a prolonged period of time to even allow a different conversation to happen.

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u/DLJD May 14 '25

Any examples of those “truly awful things”?

Because I’ve only ever seen anti-immigrant propaganda. It’s always one horrific crime or another held up as a general immigration problem, while the equally horrific crime by a non-immigrant is ignored.

Then you look at the numbers and realise that immigrants are underrepresented in the crime statistics, crime levels have been falling year on year even as immigration has risen, and immigrants also contribute more financially per capita than the local population. Then you realise how pervasive and widespread the anti-immigration propaganda is, and how utterly without merit it is.

It’s just xenophobia, combined with an easy scapegoat for the very real issues people are facing, all exacerbated by foreign interests funding and amplifying the narrative.

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u/Get-Fucked-Dirtbag May 14 '25

"Pro immigration propaganda" is definitely one of the sentences of all time

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u/Andreus United Kingdom May 14 '25

Right-wing propaganda should be outlawed in its entirety, and the wretches who propagate it jailed for life.

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u/ThinkAboutThatFor1Se May 14 '25

Elon has not donated to UK political parties.

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u/ventingpurposes May 14 '25

They didn't say he did.