Russia launches propaganda campaign in Europe “Russia is not my enemy”

[u/kyoukidotexe]

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-polytics/4028250-russia-launches-propaganda-campaign-in-europe-russia-is-not-my-enemy.html

[u/mapf0000 → u/[deleted]]

I understand what you mean by „including Russians“. But I think it is better to speak of the russian regime as the enemy, to make things more clear. People of Russia that want peace and reject imperialism (that includes giving back robbed land) are in fact not my enemy. They could of course topple their dictator, that would make them even more likeable.

[u/DangerousDragonite → u/mapf0000]

Reject imperialism? Check out the polls of what % of Russians support this war.

[u/mapf0000 → u/DangerousDragonite]

I know many or a even majority support the war. But I am speaking of those that do not. Which there certainly are. Even Ukraine has battalions with Russians fighting the current russian regime.

[u/DangerousDragonite → u/mapf0000]

“A majority support the war”

[u/ErebosGR → u/mapf0000]

They could of course topple their dictator, that would make them even more likeable.

Do you think they are not trying?

Have you never seen protestors getting beaten and disappeared by the police?

Didn't you hear what happened to Alexei Navalny?

[u/Xenon009 → u/[deleted]]

We can hate putin and his scumbag cronies without being racist about it, considering about a fifth of the worlds russians don't have anything to do with the nation of russia.

I mean fuck the commander of the ukranian armed forces is a russian.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleksandr_Syrskyi

[u/Xibalba_Ogme → u/Xenon009]

Yes, pretty much what I said when I said "Russia is also an enemy of Russians"

[u/Xenon009 → u/Xibalba_Ogme]

Ahhhh, that makes more sense, apologies for calling you racist lol

[u/GreenEyeOfADemon → u/Xenon009]

You're right! It's only putin in the trenches in Donbas.

[u/Xenon009 → u/GreenEyeOfADemon]

I know what you're trying to do, but yes, there's plenty of russians in donbas, whom can be broken into two categories: Putins cronies, and russians who are fighting for ukraine.

There are about 4 million ukranian russians outside of the disputed territories, and about 8.5 million, including them, or about 1/10 and 1/5 of ukraines population, respectively.

Those russians fight in the ukranian army, again, the commander in chief of the ukranian army was born in the district next to moscow, moving to Ukraine when he was 15. His entire family is russian, most of them still living in russia, and yet he was the man who led the defence of kyiv.

If the ukranians trust their russians that much, then there's no point in us looking down of them for the country of their birth, or worse, the country of their parents' birth.

[u/GreenEyeOfADemon → u/Xenon009]

russians who are fighting for Ukraine.

Yes, all 700 of them and their are not fighting for Ukraine, they are fighting against the regime.

[u/GreenEyeOfADemon → u/Xenon009]

Sure thing buddy.

This is only Putin's war^TM wink wink ;-)

[u/Xenon009 → u/GreenEyeOfADemon]

Im willing to bet that the russians who are fighting in ukraines trenches are doing a fuck ton more for ukraine than you are on here with your fancy profile picture, dramatic flair and smartarse comments.

I'm genuinely suprised that "lets not hate an entire ethnic group on the actions of one country, considering that ethnic group in question is quite literally leading the fight against said country" is such a controversial take to be honest.

[u/DryCloud9903 → u/Xenon009]

Mate I hear what you're saying, and it's noble of you (if done in good faith) to hold such beliefs. But the harsh truth is that those russians (I'm aware of the legion) are a really tiny proportion of their overall population. 

I won't argue for hate, for sure, but in my books every russian (who was raised in the russian system especially) - is "guilty until proven innocent", meaning I will not trust them until they've sufficiently proven to be anti-putin & anti-war, clearly believe that Crimea is Ukranian, and is highly critical of the state of affairs in their home country.

There's plenty apathetic russians, yes. But they are part of the problem, as being apathetic in the face of such cruelty, against Ukranians and against their own people who die by hundreds of thousands is... Not what I'd call a "good person" either

[u/Xenon009 → u/DryCloud9903]

I'm not talking the legion here, thats a tiny organisation, I'm talking about the 8 million russians (4 million of whom live outside of dontesk, luhansk and crimea) who are currently living in ukranine as ukranian citizens, as well as the 20ish million living in the wider world.

As far as those ukranian russians go, they fight for ukraine just as the ethnic ukranians do. They are ethnically russian, linguistically russian, and culturally russian. many of them were born in russia, and yet they live in, and fight for ukraine.

I understand the guilty until proven innocent mindset, I do. Its pragmatic. But as many people in this thread are doing, demonising russians for simply being russian, rather than being pro war/pro putin (or even apathetic if you want) just isn't on, because the two are very much not the same thing.

[u/itskelena → u/Xenon009]

Define “Ukrainian russian”? Do you mean russified Ukrainians maybe?

I’m what you just called “ethnically russian” in your post, I was taught russian when I was born and I was told I am a russian. However, just 2 generations ago people in my family were speaking Ukrainian living on historic Ukrainian lands (now russia territory since 1920s-ish). I have nothing in common with russians in russia besides russian being my first language, we have completely different values. So you tell me how am I russian? Just because it so happened that we speak the same language, doesn’t make us the same ethnicity.

Just because russian empire and Soviets tried to turn us into russians and partially succeeded in russifying us doesn’t mean we’re russians.

[u/Xenon009 → u/itskelena]

I'm going off the number of people who called themselves russian as of the 2001 census (the most recent census in ukraine).

That probably includes people who were russified like yourself, people that were born in ukraine to russian parents, people who moved from russia to ukraine as children, and people like syrski who moved as adults.

But the important part is that I'm talking about people whom, if you asked what they were, they'd say they were russian, and would probably consider themselves included in their number if you said "all russians are evil"

[u/GreenEyeOfADemon → u/Xenon009]

Crimea river: you don't deserve too much attention.

[u/Delicious-Food2607 → u/Xenon009]

Syrskyis father is a retired Russian Army colonel and his mother is a full blown Putin supporter who considers Ukrainians less than human. Not a very good point

[u/Xenon009 → u/Delicious-Food2607]

Its the perfect point for exactly that reason.

Syrski is a russian, born in russia, raised in russia, ethnically russian. His family are all russia mad.

And yet, he is the man responsible for the defence of kyiv, the kharkiv counter offensive, and the defence of bakhmut. As far as generals go, he's probably the biggest hero ukranie has had on that front in the war.

It doesn't matter what his family does. It doesn't matter where he's from. What matters is what he's doing. He's the highest rank, but there are plenty of russians on ukraines side of things. To demonise people for being russian's is stupid. To demonise them for supporting putin, a choice any human can make, and any human can refuse to make, is what makes sense.