News The Queen was a Remainer: her secret views on Brexit revealed
https://www.thetimes.com/article/c2c58bbb-acc3-47f4-8abb-2e525cf80bfb?shareToken=d1c13e783fa7dd36021f48cf693c7018997
u/StressedTest 1d ago
Of course she was.
She wanted the best for her country.
Not like the self interested fuckwits Boris and Nigel.
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u/PhDinDildos_Fedoras 16h ago
She should have blocked it.
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u/talt123 Norway 16h ago
If she did, the monarchy would end and the decision would happen either way. The Queen or King of England only has the power on paper, not in practice.
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u/Jeffreys_therapist 10h ago
The Queen or King of England only has the power on paper, not in practice
That's incorrect, but you carry on propagating misinformation while you're down there on your knees
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u/bogdoomy United Kingdom 7h ago
so when was the last time the monarch refused royal assent then?
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u/LumpySpacePrincesse 19h ago
If she really wanted the best for her country she would have actaully stood against leaving and risked the crown. She did not, also her son is a pedo.
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u/Jeffreys_therapist 10h ago
She wanted the best for her country
The best for any country is democracy.
Did she abdicate?
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u/StressedTest 9h ago
Ideally yes, democracy is the best for the country.
But it has been shown that multiple interests came together to promote false information to voters.
e.g. Russia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_2016_Brexit_referendum
Is it really a democracy if people are force fed false information that is against their interests?
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u/Jeffreys_therapist 9h ago
What does this have to do with an unelected foreigner who gives tax payer's money to compensate the victims of sex trafficking?
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u/djingo_dango 5h ago
A lot of Europeans apparently have a raging boner for monarchs. Weird but that’s the truth
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u/jatawis 🇱🇹 Lithuania 7h ago
European monarchies are among world's most democratic countries.
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u/SavageRabbitX 1d ago
That's because she was a sensible and intelligent lady. It was the one time I wished she had spoken up as she would have definitely swung the vote
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u/azazelcrowley 1d ago edited 1d ago
It's moreso that she served in WW2 and shared the "European Unity" focus that came out of it. She could have known nothing about the EU but would have supported it purely on principle of ensuring peace in Europe, as did quite a lot of people in that generation.
Sort of like the Otto+Karl Habsburgs. Swung from "But what if European Universal Monarchy?" to "Oh okay, a federal democratic EU, sure." and focused more on "Europe must unite" than any particular details, with the rest seen as obstacles to that goal.
Most pro-EU people would probably have thought she and others like Karl were radicals who "Took it too far".
The monumental task of actually uniting Europe peacefully into a superstate took long enough and was complex enough that most of that generation died out before it could be accomplished, and their children take a much looser approach to the EU and what it is supposed to be.
The Paneuropean Union existed long before the EU for example and emerged after WW1, and did stuff like organize the Pan-European Picnic. (On the whole, Eurofederalists are PU members or supporters).
Elizabeth II when she spoke to the EU parliament made direct reference to Churchills speech in which he praised the Paneuropean Union as well as the EU (She could have chosen others, she specifically chose this one). I think her sentiments lay there.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-European_Picnic
(A major event in the collapse of the Warsaw Pact was organized by the Paneuropean movement, the Paneuropean picnic, which directly incited the largest crossing of the iron curtain to date and started the wave of them, though they would have probably happened eventually anyway).
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u/evrestcoleghost 23h ago
Always funny how the last Habsburg prince helped end cold war with a picnic
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u/Responsible-Room-645 1d ago
That isn’t her role but I hear ya
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u/Ramenastern 1d ago
The irony being that yeah, it wasn't her role, but as it turns out, a lot of rules didn't apply because it wasn't a binding referendum, and the Brexit side took full advantage of that eg when it came to accepting money for the campaign, while the Remain side tended to play by the rules of a binding referendum.
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u/Chester_roaster 1d ago edited 1d ago
Just because it wasn't a "binding referendum", (and binding referendums don't exist in the British system) oesn't mean the government could or even wanted to ignore it.
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u/Ramenastern 1d ago
Yeah, well, the hoobla around it certainly made it hard to ignore. But as such it fell into that cool niche of not being binding, and thus not being subject to the same sort of rules and guardrails as eg elections, while being treated as absolutely binding. More binding than anything that's ever been decided anywhere on British soil.
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u/TheNewHobbes 11h ago
and binding referendums don't exist in the British system
Yes they do. Both the AV referendum and the 75 EU referendum were binding. They both had the rules for the outcome passed in parliamentary bills before the referendum with the provision it would only happen if the referendum was then passed.
The latest EU referendum didn't have any bills stating what would happen after, which is why leave could promise contradictory outcomes to different people, telling anyone who would believe them whatever they wanted.
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u/Chester_roaster 11h ago
That's not a blind though, Parliamenti can't bind itself in legislation
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u/TheNewHobbes 11h ago
You've misunderstood that phrase.
Parliament not being able to bind itself means it can't make legislation that cannot be revoked by future legislation.
The av and 75 elections were binding because they were already law after the referendum result due to the bill of the outcome already having passed. A future government could pass another bill that undid that law, hence not being bound.
There was no bill passed on the outcome of the leave referendum before the referendum, so it wasn't binding to implement as there was nothing to implement.
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u/Chester_roaster 11h ago
I haven't misunderstood that thank you. Because Parliament can't be bound by legislation or can never be bound by a referendum result. It can pass another bill to revoke any previous bill so binding referendums don't exist in the UK system.
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u/TheNewHobbes 10h ago
You are confusing the government being bound to implement the result of a referendum, and them being bound to not being able to reverse the implementation with a future parliamentary bill.
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u/Chester_roaster 10h ago
I understand the demarcation, it's you that's confusing the former with a binding referendum. Binding referendums can't exist in the UK system because it would have to be predicated on legislation and Parliament can never be bound by legislation
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u/stoveen 1d ago
Out of curiosity does the queen(king now) get a vote in these things?
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u/intergalacticspy 1d ago
The Sovereign and members of the House of Lords are not entitled to vote in elections to the House of Commons.
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u/TheBusStop12 Dutchman in Suomiland 1d ago
But this was a non binding referendum, not an election
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u/intergalacticspy 23h ago
The European Union Referendum Act 2015 set the entitlement to vote based on the parliamentary electorate + members of the House of Lords.
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u/Chester_roaster 1d ago
I don't think she could vote, the monarch is / was ostensibly above politics
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u/intergalacticspy 1d ago
No, only people qualified to vote in parliamentary elections and members of the House of Lords (who are normally disqualified from voting in parliamentary elections) were eligible. The Queen does not have a vote in parliamentary elections.
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u/Pigrescuer 16h ago
The royal family can vote if they want, but they choose not to (although I'm not sure at what point they choose to - does Zara Phillips vote, for example?) There's no law on this.
You're right that sitting peers can't vote in general elections. So interestingly the current minister for science is both unelected and can't vote in general elections!
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u/intergalacticspy 11h ago
There is no written law that states that the Sovereign cannot vote, but as the third component of Parliament (ie, Crown, Lords and Commons), it would be contrary to constitutional principle if the King were to be have a vote for the House of Commons.
Other members of the Royal Family no longer have seats in the House of Lords and so can vote for the House of Commons if they choose to. It is merely custom that prevents them from doing so.
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u/Pigrescuer 11h ago
Right, so we said the same thing. The Queen could vote if she chose to and probably used to. The King could also vote legally but doesn't because of the reasons you said above.
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u/intergalacticspy 11h ago
No, the lack of any written law does not mean that the Queen or the King could vote if they chose to. We have an unwritten constitution, but that does not mean that its rules are not binding. If the King applied to be added to the electoral roll, it would probably lead to a constitutional crisis which would have to be resolved by Parliament or the Supreme Court.
The last king to even step foot in the House of Commons had his head chopped off - what do you think will happen to a king who claimed the right to vote for the House of Commons?
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u/Pigrescuer 11h ago
Sorry I think we're getting our wires crossed. I meant that the current Queen, who was not born royal, probably used to vote before she married Chas. Not that the old Queen used to vote.
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u/intergalacticspy 11h ago
Oh, I would class the current Queen together with the rest of the Royal Family.
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u/Paranoidnl 1d ago
Most (if not all) european kings/queend only have a ceremonial role as head of state. They are not directly involved in politics.
But i am quite certain that she voices her opinions to the prime minister.
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u/CptJimTKirk European Federation 1d ago
I mean she did so on Scottish independence, so she definitely could've done it.
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u/ArseholeryEnthusiast 20h ago
You can see this highly during the troubles. There was nothing from her which both criticised.
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u/ClosPins 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yeah, what happens to a country isn't the monarch's role! No, wait... It's exactly the monarch's role.
EDIT: Hey, down-voters! The monarch technically owns the entire country - and you guys are saying that the owner has no say in what happens to that thing they own. Ludicrous!
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u/AEW_SuperFan 9h ago
If she goes deep into politics too many people ask "hey why do we still have a queen?".
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u/Vivid_Employment8635 1d ago
Of course she was. She was intelligent and relatively highly educated, had decades of experience with both British politics and international diplomacy, and was related to the heads of state or former heads of state of half of Europe. She also had first hand memories of the Second World War, and a husband who had to flee his birth country due to the aftermath of WWI to boot. Nobody with that combination would have favoured Brexit.
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u/fripez256 1d ago
I'd agree she was intelligent and experienced, but interestingly she wasn't educated at all.
Back in the 1920/30s, the education programme of aristocratic females (there was no expectation at the time she would be monarch), was basically nonexistent
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u/Pigrescuer 16h ago
Of course she was educated. She was 10 when her uncle resigned and she became the heir apparent. She would have had a governess before then anyway.
She used to go down to Eton for specific coaching on constitutional law.
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u/GroundbreakingAsk468 21h ago
There is an episode of The Crown about this, and she sought out tutors.
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u/hughk European Union 16h ago
There was a book about the British Constitution called "The Hidden Wiring" by Peter Hennesy. The British have a lot of constitution but it isn't so clearly spelled out. Queen' Elizabeth's notes were n books found on Windsor Castle. She did indeed find tutors, some of the best sources of knowledge in the country.
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u/M0therN4ture 1d ago
Anyone with a brain is a remainer
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u/TonyHeaven 1d ago
Even people with half a brain are remainers
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u/Falsus Sweden 19h ago
There is two kinds of Brexiters: Rich selfish asshole who stood to gain directly from it and fuelled the campaign and the idiots who ate it up.
I guess I can throw some extra shade at the people who didn't bother to vote also.
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u/b2q 18h ago
Poor people voting against their own interests after being tricked by populists/rich people is the Achilles heel of democracy. Trump is the same story and most right populist governments
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u/Falsus Sweden 18h ago
I would argue that Trump and Brexit is more about symptoms of deeper issues.
If things operated properly then grifters like Trump, Nigel and Boris would never have gotten the chance to fuck it up for everyone.
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u/centzon400 United Kingdom 14h ago
*three kinds
Corbynistas made up the third group. Repatriate/nationalize all the things... for the people.
Neither of the two Brexit positions was/is very appealing to me. I'd much rather a loose federal union with our Eurobros. Loose, but strong enough to push aginst other geopolitical blocs. A difficult balance, for sure.
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u/blue_strat 23h ago
Unfortunately not all those brains wanted to drag their fingers to a pencil. The polls in the run-up were so close, but on the day it wasn't worth the trouble for some people. Sheer complacency.
A bunch of people who voted Leave did so thinking Remain would win as predicted, but that the closeness of the vote would give the government a good shake. It was a mess all round.
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u/OldSky7061 1d ago
It’s because she was aware of the economic damage and citizens rights disaster it caused.
Probably because she actually understood what it was. Unlike the electorate.
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u/Competitive-Kick747 1d ago
The not-quite-subtle EU dress was sending a message, but her subjects said NO..........
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u/symbister 1d ago
some of them said no, about a third of them.
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u/PlasticSoul266 18h ago
Yeah, but less than a third expressed the clear will to remain, so what's your argument?
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u/OrbAndSceptre 1d ago
Trump hates the EU, which shows us that the EU is the right choice for Europe. A strong, united Europe is far better for its citizens (and the world) than a collection of smaller 27 countries.
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u/Tman11S Belgium 23h ago
Her whole life she worked to secure good relations with other countries and then bojo and farage show up and blow up all ties with Britain’s closest allies. Of course she was a remainer.
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u/AssistanceEven2751 17m ago
Mate it was David Cameron who put the vote to the people.
It was him.
David Cameron.
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u/supersonic-bionic United Kingdom 23h ago
Well DUH? I think the royal family in general was pro-EU.
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u/Ziggy_has_my_ticket 1d ago
Of course she was, everyone assumed so. She was an intelligent woman who cared about the future of the country. Not a bigoted, jingoistic, small minded reactionary who felt like burning things down to spite the 'deep state' and return to the days of Henry VIII.
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u/gourmetguy2000 1d ago
Bet she hated Boris
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u/daygloviking 1d ago edited 7h ago
I have no doubt. He demonstrably lied to her face on several occasions, she knew it and she also knew she couldn’t just call him out on it.
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u/confused_by_bug 1d ago
See also Jacob Rees Mogg. Tried to game Google by literally lying down in parliament to cover up his actual lying to parliament and in effect misleading the Queen. Tories/Money first and country a distant second.
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u/BillionsWasted 1d ago
I thought this was well known. The whole reason David Beckham came out as remain in voting day was that he thought it would impress the palace and help his chances of a knighthood
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u/redditreader1972 Norway 1d ago edited 1d ago
It is this type of nonsense that made brexit happen. 37% of registered voters voted for brexit. Some were stupid enough to believe Farage. But most voted for brexit because their jobs, economy and opportunities have worsened over the last decades, a problem in many places in Britain.
Brexit, and similarly Trump, is a sign of decades of failure by politicians to take people seriously.
I think Brexit was stupid, driven by stupid campaigns, a gift to Putin as it worsened the security and cohesion in Europe. But it did not come from stupid alone.
Also 28% didn't care enough to vote...
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u/InflamedNodes 1d ago
Not nonsense if true. Try again, Tory.
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u/Gekey14 United Kingdom 1d ago
Ffs, people like u are miserable and driving people directly into the arms of Farage.
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u/Funkliford Canada 1d ago
Nah, just triple down and tell voters they're stupid for caring about the cost of living, migration, housing, etc. when the data says everything is great! I'm sure that won't further radicalize them /s
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u/berejser These Islands 1d ago
But they're not wrong, even if they are being crass about it. Educational attainment alone can correctly classify over 90% of local authorities by voting outcome in the EU referendum. The data shows a massive correlation between how educated someone is and how they voted in the 2016 referendum.
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u/Gekey14 United Kingdom 23h ago
That's besides the point tho, calling everyone who does something u disagree with dumb is just childish and part of the kinda moral superiority elitist rhetoric that's pushed people to do exactly those things.
Doesn't matter if it's true, it matters what gets done about it.
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u/berejser These Islands 15h ago
I'm pretty sure saying "you're not allowed to say it, even if it's true" is what has led to the resentment that has driven people towards populist figures like Farage in the first place.
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u/Spiritual_Use_8524 1d ago
As a Reform voter I pray for people like you to be as loud as possible
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u/PoiHolloi2020 United Kingdom 21h ago
I mean some people have ideologically just never supported the idea of being in the EU and sharing sovereignty with the rest of its member states. That doesn't make them stupid, it means they have a different ideological position.
I objected to many of Leave's other arguments (particularly about the economics of Brexit) but the one above is one I could at least understand, even if it was never an opinion I subscribed to.
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u/InflamedNodes 17h ago
It literally makes them stupid, because being in the EU is a unified continent and prevents wars, creates common culture, and allows strong trade relations. Anyone against the EU Is against these ideals, and has another agenda.
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u/PlasticSoul266 18h ago
There are a whole lot of leftist groups led by highly educated intellectuals that always stood against the EU even before it even existed. There are legitimate reasons to be eurosceptic, but I agree that Tories pushed Brexit for purely opportunistic reasons and handled it in a completely disastrous way that made the whole effort absolutely not worth it. What's the point of Brexit if the policies essentially stay the same? Brexit could've been a legitimate means to the end of uprooting the neoliberal socioeconomic virus, but of course, one cannot expect that from the same people who invented it.
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u/fortytwoandsix Austria 1d ago
I am neither british nor do i have a fondness for monarchy, but i think this woman was a real inspiration for how to be a decent human being.
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u/TremendousVarmint France 14h ago
The Sun has never been held to account to have titled 'Queen Backs Brexit' during the campaign.
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u/Sharp_Iodine 1d ago
To nobody’s surprise. She also wanted the Commonwealth to actually mean something and felt a sense of responsibility to the countries the Empire had exploited.
She always stood for coming together, not standing apart.
It’s a very common sense position to take that surprises no one, really.
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u/nevetz1911 Italy 1d ago
Imagine thinking an European nation would do better on its own rather than in an union with other remarkable nations when, even 10 years ago, 'rival' nations like US, China and Russia were already in ongoing plans to divide and rule the rest of the world.
Leaving the Union is a small thought of small people.
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u/mozzy1985 1d ago
Not surprising. Anyone with an education could see leaving was a fecking stupid idea.
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u/Iamoggierock 1d ago
Because she had brains, experience of the world and was very rounded. She was reserved and committed to her role. Nothing but respect for her. She expressed her thoughts in the best way possible with colour choices and hat wearing. One of the daftest things we Brits have done. Let's hope our old unprecedented doesn't become a new unprecedented. Look how America is falling so hard on the world stage. I'm proud to be British and I want to stay that way.
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u/tom_snout 1d ago
If there’s a silver lining to the second Trump regime let’s hope it’s Britain and Europe getting a good long look at the disaster of modern right wing populism in action and sensibly rejecting a repeat of the American disaster at home.
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u/Quick-Taste4204 1d ago
Yeah Nigel Farage!! And ‘Patriots’, you going against your Queen???
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u/Antique-Link3477 1d ago
Going against the norman monarchy is our oldest tradition. They keep their opinions to themselves for a reason.
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u/Quick-Taste4204 1d ago
Thought it was King and country? That’s what our grandparents fought for
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u/Antique-Link3477 1d ago
The King as a symbol of national unity. Not the king as an autocrat who's opinion in matters holds any weight, the last King to attempt that found himself without a head.
The Norman yoke still exists and to resist it is just as English as it has always been.
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u/PoiHolloi2020 United Kingdom 21h ago
Don't think it's really correct to call them Normans after they've been here for a thousand years. The Queen also descended from Alfred the Great, the Stuarts and the Tudors, and her mother was British.
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u/Antique-Link3477 10h ago
All of the aristocracy since 1066 have conformed to the same power structure established by the Norman's. The descendants of the Norman aristocracy still absolutely dominate British wealth and land proportionally. Being a maternal descendant of Alfred means nothing, most English people could say the same.
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u/JoLeTrembleur 21h ago edited 21h ago
I very much like when she obviously wore the brooch Michelle Obama gifted to her in font of the orange thing.
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u/mascachopo 21h ago
She could have been more open about that and save a lot of pain to her own country.
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u/IWillDevourYourToes Czech Republic 18h ago
Bro I barely woke up and read Romanian instead of Remainer
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u/War_Fries The Netherlands 16h ago
That's because she wasn't dumb or uninformed. Quite the contrary.
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u/LeBertz 1d ago
It is completely irrelevant what kings, queens, of other royalty think about anything.
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u/HunterThin870 1d ago
In constitutional pseudo-monarchies. In Saudi-Arabia one should think of the opinions of the king, if they don't want to get disappeared.
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u/djingo_dango 1d ago
Constitutional pseudo-monarchy is like wearing underwear over pants. Completely unnecessary and embarrassing
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u/schtickshift 1d ago
Andrew is a Remainer as well.
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u/schtickshift 1d ago
Sorry it was a joke. He is remaining in the palace and cannot be removed from it.
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u/Chopperpad99 1d ago
The queen could have had Trump bumped off while inside her palace and gotten away with it!
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u/Mesonychia 13h ago
Seems to me the Queen was a rather intelligent lady. So of course she was a remainer.
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u/coprosperityglobal 1d ago
Oh yeah I remember her secret. Almost all the Brits I have spoken with were remainer. Did AI voted for them?
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u/Elpsyth 1d ago
I lived through that in my company that had a lot of older Brits. There was a lot of people openly brexiter or happy with the results.
Now it's harder. It will become like Iraq 2003… where most people were in favour but you can't find anyone admitting it today'
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u/Socmel_ reddit mods are accomplices of nazi russia 1d ago
It will become like Iraq 2003… where most people were in favour
were they? I vaguely remember that there were massive protests when Blair decided to play servant for the Yankees in Iraq
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u/markp88 1d ago
There were massive protests, but the majority of people asked at the time were in favour of the war. https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/12483-remembering-iraq
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u/berejser These Islands 1d ago
It's been almost 10 years since the vote and Leave voters skewed demographically much older than Remain voters. So it wouldn't surprise me if the people who voted Remain in 2016 now outnumber the people who voted Leave in 2016 just due to attrition from old age.
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u/opinionate_rooster Slovenia 1d ago
In the current atmosphere, would anyone claim otherwise and face shame?
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u/Jeffreys_therapist 1d ago
The Queen was:
• someone who was never elected
• someone who socialised with Nazi party members in the 1950s
• someone who paid a victim of sex trafficking £12m on behalf of her son
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u/CheesyLala 1d ago
Source for 'socialised with Nazi party members in the 1950s'?
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u/Jeffreys_therapist 1d ago
Phillip's sisters were guests at dead Betty's coronation.
They were excluded from the wedding 5 years earlier
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u/jaywastaken eriovI’d etôC 1d ago
She wasn't subtle about it. Which is saying a lot for her.