r/europe • u/AlfredsChild England • 17h ago
News Reform takes shock 15-point lead over Labour as Farage dreams of winning power
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/reform-shock-15-point-lead-labour-farage-power-3887857351
u/AlfredsChild England 17h ago
Voting intention from this poll:
Reform 35%
Labour 20%
Conservatives 17%
Liberal Democrats 13%
The Greens 7%
Scottish National Party 2%
Poll conducted by BMGResearch.
Estimates would see Reform gain upwards of 400 seats, Labour would be pushed down to just 75 seats.
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u/off_of_is_incorrect 14h ago
Labour burnt a ton of their basic support group with the disability reforms (gone are your disabled voters now), the warm homes faff (gone are those who felt it was correct, and those who were impacted by it) and now the tech savvy voters from the OSA.
They're just so, stupid.
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u/Freddies_Mercury 10h ago
They are systematically going through their voter bases and turning them off one by one.
Another vote group they turned off are the LGBTQ (and ally) voters. Nearly everyone in the community is horrified by Labour's crusade against trans people to exclude them from public life and enabling systemic discrimination.
It genuinely feels like they've done all this alienation on behalf of some very rich donors who want to see reform win the next election.
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u/Sacaron_R3 9h ago
The very rich donors want Starmer to keep the seat warm for the tories, and for him to prevent any possible leftist ideas. Apart from a few lunatics and inbred nobility, I'd hope that even the 0,1% recognize that Farage in power would spell disaster.
They can ram through all the surveillance and privatisation they want with New Labour and Tories switching seats every few years, no need to support Reform for that. If anything, a new party introduces dangerous fringe elements into the equation.
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u/LeadSponge420 9h ago
People on the left voted for them. They didn't vote for Reform-lite. Why liberals always play against their base is baffling to me.
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u/RedstoneEnjoyer Slovakia 10h ago edited 8h ago
They're just so, stupid.
They are not stupid, it is intentional. Labour party is currently under control of people whose main mission is to ensure that another Corbyn will not happen again.
And if it means support base for Labour party will be permanently tanked, so be it.
Just look at their treatment of trans people - Labour party in 2025 is more conservative than Tories in 2017.
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u/kingbluetit 9h ago
They’re trying to appeal to people who will never vote for them, and in doing so losing the only people who would ever vote for them.
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u/-The_Blazer- Europe 9h ago
There's something genuinely impressive with the way UK Labour manages to burn up their entire consensus in like one year after winning elections.
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u/JRHEvilInc United Kingdom 17h ago
This should not be a shock to anyone who has actually been paying attention. Labour may have had a landslide in seats, but they actually only squeaked through on votes, and since then have decided to alienate their entire left wing base while also pissing off moderates and centrists.
As a staunch lefty, this whole government has just been like watching a car crash in slow motion. The only hope I have for a government not led by Farage after the next election is if Corbyn's party somehow pulls off a miracle victory.
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u/vojdek 16h ago
As long as it’s “Corbyn’s party”…you might want to adjust your expectations.
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u/thendisnigh111349 15h ago
Labour under Corbyn got more votes than Starmer did. He simply wasn't lucky enough to be the leader when the Tories self-imploded by themselves.
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u/dat_9600gt_user Lower Silesia (Poland) 12h ago
Come to think of it, why did Corbyn lose as much as he did?
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u/thendisnigh111349 11h ago
By the 2019 election it had been over three years since the Brexit referendum and no progress had been made on a withdrawal agreement due to political deadlock. Boris Johnson had centered his entire campaign on promising to get Brexit done and over with whereas Corbyn lacked a clear stance on it and suggested a referendum on the withdrawal agreement. People had become completely exhausted with Brexit being the dominating issue and had no appetite for the process to drag on even longer.
Also the Brexit party led by Nigel Farage pretty much completely sat out of the election which prevented right-wing vote splitting that hurt the Tories in previous elections.
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u/Zephinism Dorset County - United Kingdom 10h ago
Pro russia ties, pro hezbollah ties, terrible foreign policy, anti-NATO, said he would likely never use our nukes. Wishywashy on Brexit (campaigned against it, was personally for Brexit)
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u/Vancelan Flanders (Belgium) 10h ago edited 6h ago
Because he rejected an offer by the Greens, the Lib Dems, and the SNP to coordinate tactical voting whereby everyone would be standing down in constituencies where one of them could win while the others could not. It was essentially an offer to make him PM of a grand anti-Tory alliance.
Corbyn rejected, because he did not want to share power and thought he could win it alone. As a result, the anti-Tory vote was split everywhere, and everyone lost a ton of constituencies except for the Tories, who were catapulted into a comfortable majority government with a minority of votes.
Corbynites then proceeded to attack and blame everyone but themselves, even claiming that everyone else should've stood down anyway in spite of Corbyn's Labour spitting in their faces, having absolutely zero self-awareness of their own role in what happened and arrogantly laying the blame at everyone else's feet.
Exactly the same thing happened in 2024 but on the right, which is how Starmer became PM. Labour clearly hasn't learned any lessons from any of this though, and continues to piss off everyone else. And neither has Corbyn, because the only potential his new party has is to split the vote even more.
The UK desperately needs proportional representation instead of first-past-the-post. Labour has actually uttered some things along those lines in the past, only to quickly backtrack once in power because nobody wants to potentially lose their seat in parliament once that reform is made.
As long as you have a somewhat large and stable base, you're going to be the one who has unilateral majority rule at some point, and they all prefer this to being in power continuously but having to work with others and having to make compromises through democratic consent.
So instead the UK keeps running a system where half of voters aren't even represented and calls it "democracy".
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u/Blonde_Streak_ 15h ago
A left resurgence would require compromise on immigration and the left refuses to entertain the idea under any circumstances it seems, so Farage it is.
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u/ExtraPockets United Kingdom 15h ago
The Denmark model is there for the taking. I'm sure huge numbers of left leaning voters would trade immigration for workers rights, tax reform, environmental policies etc.
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u/SmileSmite83 11h ago
The Denmark model works in Denmark because the left is much more united in their position on immigration and asylum there, in the UK though most of the left is still very pro multiculturalism.
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u/epicurean1398 11h ago
To anyone with any knowledge on the subject they'll know that mass immigration is completely antithetical to strong unions, workers rights and higher wages
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u/JRHEvilInc United Kingdom 15h ago
No, let's do this. Go ahead. I'm a leftist and I'm willing to compromise. Lay out your plan. I want to avoid a Farage premiership so I'm genuinely listening.
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u/uwatfordm8 13h ago
Corbyn isn't listening though. He's set in his ways and won't change. He backed Brexit, he doesn't want involvement in any wars even if it means letting Ukraine lose. He didn't do enough to dispel the anti-Semitism smear campaign.
He's never going to win an election as he's not likeable, outside of his left wing electorate that are not and will not be enough to win a sizeable amount of seats.
It's also clear to me that Corbyn will not do anything to curb immigration either so he's got absolutely no chance.
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u/HIP13044b United Kingdom 11h ago
The problem is that "the left" doesn't exist as an entity in the same way the right does. It's not a homogeneous block. it's desperate with very different ideas with detailed nuance. The modern right always opts for the simple blunt solution. This is why the left turns on itself so often.
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u/h3r3andth3r3 16h ago
Corbyn may be the hopeful here but unfortunately it's quite clear that he's also in Russia's pocket.
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u/Fragglesmurfbutt Gibraltar 16h ago
You mean the same Corbyn that chugs on Putin's dick as much as Farage does?
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u/ITooHaveAnUsername 17h ago
Wasn't Farage the guy who bullshitted UK into Brexit? I see morons are still easy to take for a ride.
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u/Telochim 17h ago edited 16h ago
Modern electorate doesn't think - it feels. And if it's uncomfortable for one reason or another, it will vote in the loudest and brazenest anti-establishment group, regardless of whether it communicates any pathways to solving issues or just puts on the "we are so furiously against all the status quo" performance without any substance.
It's that primitive.
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u/Hungover994 15h ago
Electorates have always “felt” when voting. That’s why philosophers like Plato were against traditional democracy in Athens because most just vote with their emotions allowing unqualified idiots and charlatans to rise to power.
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u/Imperito East Anglia, England 12h ago
Sadly there isn't really a palatable alternative to democracy that we have come up with yet. It's the best of the terrible systems on offer.
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u/TheDesertShark 9h ago
Democracy lives and dies on making sure that everyone is educated enough for it.
We've never had democracy.
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u/UnPeuDAide 9h ago
The problem is that autocrats or aristocrats also very much rule with their feelings and their own interests
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u/Path_of_Hegemony 15h ago
When has the electorate ever been different in a democratic society?
People from my great grandparents time, so 1920's, voted exclusively based on what their job social class was (e.g. worker = social democrat). A shit ton of people still vote like that, or blindly vote like their parents did out of tradition.
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u/elmekia_lance 14h ago
the difference is that voting based on one's class interests makes sense, voting for self-imposed economic sanctions because one is afraid of immigration or being a declining power does not.
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u/melonowl Denmark 13h ago
Working class people voting for parties advocating for, and providing, better conditions for working class people is pretty sensible. Voting for parties that are good at hyping up problems and pretending that hugely complex issues have simple solutions that only that party can provide is not very sensible. Particularly when parties like that continue to demonstrate that their actual goals are to benefit an extreme minority of society at the cost of everyone else, and primarily at the cost of the working class people voting for them.
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u/FrogsOnALog 14h ago
Every single republican voted against the PRO Act but they still get rewarded with majorities ¯_(ツ)_/¯
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u/Red_Laughing_Man 14h ago edited 13h ago
Every election winning manifesto since 2005 has promised restrictions on immigration.
That the electorate would now rather go off "vibes" than specific policies should only be seen as a suprise in that they still (thankfully!) believe in democracy at all.
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u/samamp Finland 12h ago
Parties in power sticking to decisions that the public dislikes strongly. It shouldnt be suprise to anyone they vote for someone who atleast pretends to be against it.
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u/potato-cheesy-beans United Kingdom 12h ago
Honestly, I sort of get it too. It’s been over a decade of being shat on by the tories and now labour, people don’t feel like government is working for them anymore.
I’d personally never vote reform or Tory, but labour lost my vote by their terrible handling of the OSA and their inability to actually make the big changes to fix the problems a decade of the tories and inexplicably shooting ourselves in the foot (aka brexit) has left us with.
I’ll probably end up voting Lib Dem next election, which I never thought I’d do, but I can see if I was a right leaning person struggling to make ends meet why I’d fall for reforms BS.
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u/MurkyFogsFutureLogs 11h ago edited 11h ago
Modern electorate doesn't think - it feels. And if it's uncomfortable for one reason or another, it will vote in the loudest and brazenest anti-establishment group, regardless of whether it communicates any pathways to solving issues or just puts on the "we are so furiously against all the status quo" performance without any substance.
It's that primitive.
We've elected the same two parties for over a century. In a democracy you're suggesting that the electorate wanting to vote for a new party for the first time in 100 years is being "primitive".
What's sophisticated? Being conned by the same two parties over and over again?
You don't seem to understand the people you're looking down upon and they know you're looking down upon them.
Calling people thick racists didn't help the remain argument in the EU referendum. The same attitude isn't going to stop people voting for Reform today.
In a genuine democracy the power should belong to the majority. Working class hating, middle-class socialist cosplayers hate this.
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u/AlfredsChild England 16h ago
Mostly comes down to the "Boriswave". Boris Johnson massively increased immigration despite strong promises to reduce it, and this has inevitably resulted in ethnic tensions that sparked last year with the riots. So for the right-wing of the electorate, voting Conservative is now a no-no. This has ultimately pulled in a lot of the centre-right as well who see a vote for the Conservative to be a waste, as well a large portion of the traditionalists of the working-class who now have the ability to vote "not Labour" as Reform lack the historical baggage that the Tories do.
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u/berejser These Islands 15h ago
The riot's last year weren't because of Boris Johnson, they were because of misinformation and fake news campaigns that originated from overseas. The UK is a cautionary tale of what happens when countries don't get a lid on fake news and foreign disinformation campaigns.
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u/rrschch85 Berlin (Germany) 15h ago
The UK is a cautionary tale on many things: on a lack of action against fake news, illegal migration, decades long austerity politics, and internet censorship. I don’t know how it is in other countries, but here in Germany I’ve heard multiple people say that “we don’t wanna end up like England”.
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u/Path_of_Hegemony 15h ago edited 15h ago
Here in Denmark, we used to say such things about Sweden because of their insane stance on immigration and asylum during the nightmarish "Wir Schaffen Das" years (they basically tried to one-up Merckle).
Now we are beginning to do the same with UK, because they've become a prime Orwellian censorship state, with seemingly no wish to understand how much damage that level of middle eastern and south asian immigration can do to a country, or how much damage it has already done.
I mean, the Rotham Pedo Rings alone would likely have seen any pro-immigration parties kicked out of parliament, with the Danish People's Party (the "we do not want muslims here" party) become goverment.
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u/militantcentre World Heritage United Kingdom 11h ago
To call the UK a "prime Orwellian" state is utterly ridiculous. However, you're mainly correct.
The current situation here is the culmination of 3 decades during which the population never voted for mass immigration, but got it nevertheless. The seeds of Reform were planted by Blair, when he shunned the 7 year transition for the new Eastern members of the EU and opened our labour market 100% from day one. Only Sweden followed suit. The government predicted about 10K would come - it ended up around 1M. Possibly the most wildly inaccurate government prediction in history. It meant we suddenly were awash with plumbers, electricians and sullen bar staff. Also many areas experiencing dramatic increases in multi occupancy houses full of foreigners. There was widespread discontent, which eventually played a very big part in Brexit. Blair was also relaxed about immigration from Muslim countries, and this increased massively, whilst he set about bombing those same countries. Then puzzled why so many kicked off here in Blighty. Blair was a fucking idiot most of the time.
Whilst the reptilian Johnson played on this bigtime whilst peddling his huge Brexit lie, he allowed the doors to be swung open and allowed immigration at a level never experienced in history. This time the majority came from Africa and the Indian sub-continent and were more noticeable than our European cousins.
The stark facts are thus: since 2000, the population of the UK has increased by 6 million, which is a full 10%, yet we have built no homes, no hospitals (and no prisons) in which to accommodate them. The south east of England is now more densely populated than the Netherlands. Nobody ever asked for this, yet it has happened all the same.
I am a centrist and would never, ever, even think of voting for Farage and his ghastly party. I've voted LibDem at every opportunity since 1979, but they are the most liberal about immigration, and it will make me think twice next time. Meanwhile, I totally understand why people are flocking to Reform as they are exasperated by the traditional parties. It doesn't have to be this way. The social democrats in Denmark have managed to have a strong bulwark against immigration without abandoning their principles.
I dread a forthcoming Farage government - and they will be a total disaster - but I fear it's way too late to stop it.
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u/BoutTime22 14h ago
And that is what is happening. The popularity of Farage is a reaction to those very things.
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u/SnooOpinions8790 15h ago
Multiple perspectives can be true at the same time - the UK is also a cautionary tale of what happens when the authorities conspire to cover up crimes on a massive scale for decades and get caught in the act. The level of trust in those authorities has plummeted - they are no longer considered credible sources of information by many people
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u/Unctuous_Robot 15h ago
British police can’t be bothered to do anything about any rapists, no matter the color of their skin.
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u/PM_ME_BUTTERED_SOSIJ Wales 15h ago
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u/dat_9600gt_user Lower Silesia (Poland) 12h ago
See, there ya go - more reason to not trust public institutions.
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u/PatrickTheSosij 10h ago
Lies like yours will just empower farage.
Its real. You need to accept it, and if you don't good bye to any semblance of centrist parties.
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u/Laxly 15h ago
I agree but disagree.
There are obviously tensions due to immigrants, but most of it due to the average person not having enough money to live a comfortable life.
Low wages, increasing cost of food and houses, a social security system on its knees, no investment and no positivity.
If the average person had enough money this wouldn't be an issue.
Historically the right has chosen a bogey man and told you they're the reason you're poor, in the 80's it was the Irish and Black people, it's been Indian and Pakistani people, gay people, single mums, disabled and Europeans.
If you look back to the late 90's and early 00's when the country was prospering none of these people were a major concern, but as soon as finances get right, along comes a charlatan to tell you that Johnny forefinger has stolen your magic beans
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u/PatrickTheSosij 10h ago
There are obviously tensions due to immigrants, but most of it due to the average person not having enough money to live a comfortable life.
This isn't true. People will stiff upper lip and deal with having to eat gruel, but what they don't like is chalk and cheese cultures.
If you look back to the late 90's and early 00's when the country was prospering none of these people were a major concern, but as soon as finances get right, along comes a charlatan to tell you that Johnny forefinger has stolen your magic beans
Islam wasnt as big as it is today in the 90s.
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u/JRHEvilInc United Kingdom 17h ago
Yes, and he's got worse since. But unfortunately the mainstream rightwing and nominally leftwing politicians responded to him by going "oh no, people hate immigrants and really don't like this 'woke' stuff, so we'd better make sure we look hard on both of them if we want to win voters back". So at the moment we have no viable left wing parties* and all of the right wing parties simply spend their time funnelling voters towards Farage since he's always the more hardcore version of the reactionary policy positions they take up. Unless we have a catastrophic shake up in British politics, Farage is going to be our next Prime Minister.
*The Green party are doing alright, but have no current prospects for a sweeping national victory. They'll probably do better than they've done before at the next election, but that'll equate to about 10 out of 600+ seats at best. There's also a new party in the works organised by well-known left winger Jeremy Corbyn, but they're not currently a functioning party and as such are completely untested with the notoriously change-resistant British public.
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u/DeltaEthan Europe 14h ago
The issue with the green party is that they are full of nutters, one of their policies going into the last election was to reduce the number of medical interventions during childbirth and reduce the number of caesarian sections. And that's not even mentioning their nuclear or NATO policy. I reckon they could be a lot more popular if they got rid of a seemingly minority of core members who are keeping the party from becoming a more serious force.
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u/white1984 14h ago
Problem is always the Greens in the UK, always attracts US-style "crunchy moms" and aging hippies. Very anti science, technophobic, cannot think outside their own village etc.
What they need is a German style split into the Realos and Fundis.
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u/berejser These Islands 15h ago
Britain and the US are in a desperate race to be the first nation to un-develop itself.
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u/crossdtherubicon 16h ago
Wasn't it also exposed that he and his party were largely funded by Russia?
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u/lotvalley Earth 15h ago
No - that wasn’t exposed.
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u/Gnomio1 Europe 15h ago
Certainly some dodgy stuff though:
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u/Pretty-Interest5713 16h ago
Weren't the other political parties the ones running the government leading up to this?
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u/UniquePariah United Kingdom 16h ago edited 14h ago
"But Reform are awful". You know that, I know that.
But let's just quickly talk about the two "wonderful" main parties.
The Conservatives spent 14 years with a quite frankly very friendly news media tearing the country apart. The cut funding to everything to the bone and beyond for austerity measures. Whilst doing this they heavily cut funding to all the departments that cover migration and people seeking asylum, causing backlogs and meaning that people that absolutely would be refused in a heartbeat, stayed in the country as checks couldn't be made. In addition the whole country started to deteriorate as minimal amounts were spent on maintenance and public service workers wages stagnated to the point of minimum wage so most were starting to go on strike. In the last year with Hedge Fund Manager who was involved in the 2008 financial crash, Rishi Sunak, the conservatives overspent and made deals in such a way that the first few years of the next government were going to be extra difficult as they knew they weren't going to win. The Conservatives did nothing but crippled the UK, line their own pockets, and essentially give the middle finger on their way out. They shouldn't be elected and arguably half of them at least should be prosecuted in an ideal world.
Labour on the other hand, promised to end Austerity and turn the country around. Instead they have continued austerity, followed up recently by trying to censor the internet because "WoN't SoMeBoDy ThInK oF tHe ChIlDrEn!!1!". Upon being told that this new law could easily be bypassed by anyone with rudimentary skills with the internet and were also going to block things like Wikipedia and mental health websites, poses a massive online security risk, and refused to discuss it in the house of commons even after 531,528 and still counting votes in a petition to repeal the law. There is also evidence that ministers have vested interests in ID verification companies that pose to get a lot of money out of this. This is on the back of left wing parties being accused of attacking freedom of speech, something that even though it is mostly BS, is seriously bad optics right now.
TL;DR the two main parties don't seem to give an absolute crap about the UK public and don't listen. As a result people are desperate and are listening to populist parties that at least pretend they are.
Edit. For anyone thinking about voting Reform, or if you think I am for them. I've decided to add the following.
Reform are a populist party who are pretending to listen to the British public. They, under the name of UKIP, pushed for Brexit which has absolutely been devastating to the British economy. Farage made a shit ton of money out of this. Many if not all of the policies that Reform stand for are BS. A few years ago the party pushed for a flat tax system in regards to income tax, when pressed on this Farage said that the poorest would have a system where they wouldn't pay for the first £10,000 or so.
Except, that's what the UK has now. It's called a progressive tax system. As Farage is in finance he should know this. Which leads to three options.
- Farage is incompetent.
- Farage is Evil.
- Farage is both incompetent and evil.
TL;DR, whatever anyone might think of Labour and Conservatives, Reform are worse.
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u/Thoth_the_5th_of_Tho 15h ago
Don't forget randomly gifting a British island to a country with no historic ties to it, and inexplicably still paying the country in question anyway, because the leaders of that country were buddies with them.
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u/Neurolinker Portugal 14h ago
Which island?
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u/Thoth_the_5th_of_Tho 14h ago edited 14h ago
The Chagos islands, given to Mauritius. The Chagos islands are nowhere near Mauritius, and Mauritius has no historic tie to them. Their claim came down to the fact that a bunch of Indian Ocean islands where lumped into one administrative region by the British empire, so obviously, that means they are entitled to everything that was inside that administrative region. The labour government decided to just give them the islands after that brilliant legal argument, and also pay Mauritius billions of pounds, in addition to the free islands.
Whoever comes into to power next needs to just rip up the agreement. It's outright absurd, and the PM should not have the authority to just gift islands to anyone he feels like.
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u/StuartMcNight 14h ago
What are you on about? Both the ICJ and ITLOS have ruled in favor of Mauritius in the territorial dispute by really large majorities.
Negotiations started and were almost finalized before Labour took power.
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u/grumpsaboy 13h ago
The ICJ was non binding and one of the judges a Chinese judge who has previously stated Russia is not the aggressor in the Ukraine war. That sounds like a perfectly unbiased court case.
Whether or not they were almost finalized which they weren't doesn't matter because Labour had the ability to stop if they wanted, particularly after Mauritius got a new prime minister who started demanding the world.
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u/StuartMcNight 7h ago edited 7h ago
The ICJ voted 13 to 1. Even if your lame “Chinese judge” excuse was a valid one.
Of course the negotiations were almost finalized. Negotiations started in 2022. Labour took office in July 2024. The announcement of the transfer was done in October 2024. If you think international agreements are done in 3 months. I have a nice bridge for sale.
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u/Ill_Refrigerator_593 13h ago
Apparently this remote group of islands in the Indian Ocean with no permanent inhabitants that British people are not even allowed to visit without US permission is a key historical part of the UK.
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u/topheavyhookjaws 12h ago
Austerity isn't being continued, policies being followed right now are significantly better than the 14 years before it despite the ridiculous legacy they've been left, so let's not paint them with the same brush of how awful they supposedly are.
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u/Heavy_Practice_6597 4h ago
They just created a new 40 billion deficit whilst giving Mauritius 35 billion over the term for the chagos islands.
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u/dat_9600gt_user Lower Silesia (Poland) 12h ago
It's quite impressive just how fast the duopoly managed to piss away support from the average Brit. Just a shame that they choose the party co-responsible for the Britain's 2nd worst political mistake of the 21st century thus far (the 1st being the Iraq War).
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u/UniquePariah United Kingdom 12h ago
Even with not having the money they expected and not being able to end Austerity as promised, Labour have ignored easy wins and are defending an unpopular policy that their party didn't enact to start with. I honestly have no idea what's going through Starmers head.
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u/Drummk 12h ago
Brexit which has absolutely been devastating to the British economy
I think this is perhaps an exaggeration. The UK was the fastest growing G7 economy in the first half of 2025. Unemployment is still very low by European standards.
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u/dada_georges360 France 9h ago
Yeah but that’s because the G7 specifically is doing horrible: Germany and Japan are in a recession, France has a debt crisis, the U.S. has Donald Trump and Canada is next to Donald Trump. Economies like Poland and Spain are doing comparatively much better
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u/-Radiation 14h ago
Farage campaigned heavily for Brexit with their business friends. It still did not end so well and expected by everyone with more than two brain cells, yet this logic only applies to others for some reason.
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u/UniquePariah United Kingdom 14h ago
Did you read my first sentence?
Let me explain as you seem to have skipped it. Reform are a populist party who are pretending to listen to the British public. They, under the name of UKIP, pushed for Brexit which has absolutely been devastating to the British economy. Farage made a shit ton of money out of this. Many if not all of the policies that Reform stand for are BS. A few years ago the party pushed for a flat tax system in regards to income tax, when pressed on this Farage said that the poorest would have a system where they wouldn't pay for the first £10,000 or so.
Except, that's what the UK has now. It's called a progressive tax system. As Farage is in finance he should know this. Which leads to three options. 1. Farage is incompetent. 2. Farage is Evil. 3. Farage is both incompetent and evil.
Again TL;DR, whatever anyone might think of Labour and Conservatives, Reform are worse.
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u/The_Nunnster England 11h ago
Meanwhile European Redditors see all this and just think “b-but Brexit!!! Idiots!!!” Brexit seems to be on their mind more than the average Brit, and they fall into the trap of thinking that insulting people will make them like you. Taking a look at this thread and it’s no wonder Euroscepticism is still so rife, there’s very little here to indicate to me that these people are our friends.
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u/UniquePariah United Kingdom 11h ago
This is a major problem where people don't want nuances and just want to put things into "good" and "bad" piles. Having the idea that it isn't their job to change the minds of people with differing ideas, but to only hurl abuse.
Got to admit, when online and you end up dealing with individuals who seem to go out of their way to not understand you, it is difficult not to do it myself at times.
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u/silverionmox Limburg 9h ago
Meanwhile European Redditors see all this and just think “b-but Brexit!!! Idiots!!!” Brexit seems to be on their mind more than the average Brit, and they fall into the trap of thinking that insulting people will make them like you. Taking a look at this thread and it’s no wonder Euroscepticism is still so rife, there’s very little here to indicate to me that these people are our friends.
Of course EU citizens think of Brexit when thinking of Britain, because it defines their relationship. The intiative for Brexit came from Britain, and it dominated their politics for years. The Brexit argument essentially boiled down to a conspiracy theory that the EU was somehow exploiting and profiting off Britain, and in the end most British chose to support that story. And now you come here saying everything is the EU's fault - like any Brexiteer has always done, regardless of the facts.
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u/costcokenny 14h ago
I don’t know how on earth you got from your paragraph on Labour to your conclusion.
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u/militantcentre World Heritage United Kingdom 11h ago
Good summary, other than pretending Labour had any option to austerity.
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u/Prince_of_DeaTh Lithuania 5h ago
What you've described is the classic populist feedback loop. The establishment fails, creating legitimate public anger. The populist then harvests that anger, not to fix the original problems, but to smash the system itself, promising simple, emotionally satisfying answers. Brexit was the perfect example: a complex problem of national identity and economic strategy was reduced to a simple, destructive "yes/no" vote. Farage profited, the country was permanently weakened, and the underlying problems got worse.
Now he's back to profit from the wreckage he helped create. He isn't an alternative to the broken system, he is the ultimate symptom of its disease. The fact that he is polling this high is a terrifying indicator of just how much rot has set in.
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u/Wadarkhu England 5h ago
I know everyone's still sore about that student loan stuff but I wish we'd pivot towards an established normal third option instead, like Lib Dems whose manifesto I quite liked last election. Or even green at this point, I don't actually know what they'd even be like but my attitude is "anything but Reform".
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u/Heavy_Practice_6597 4h ago edited 1h ago
Worth pointing out that "austerity" didn't even reduce the national debt at all. Nobody wants to tell people we actually need to prioritise spending and cut areas, hence why we are literally going broke.
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u/berzini 15h ago
You say "Labour promised to end austerity". Does UK have the funds for that?
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u/UniquePariah United Kingdom 15h ago
No, I didn't say that. Labour said that.
As mentioned, the Conservatives essentially did a scorched Earth policy on their way out, there isn't money for shit. However I'd argue the Online Safety Act is the biggest killer of Labour right now.
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u/Muad_Dib_PAT 15h ago
The UK basically became the world centre for rich people trying to evade taxes through their former overseas colonies that became independent and have very favourable tax laws. However, such a system means that barely any money actually stays in the UK besides the taxes on the fiscal services that are offered. There is no growth outside of London and the city itself has become unaffordable for most of the UK population.
In order to end austerity, the tax schemes and the tax cuts have to be repealed so the government can afford social programs again. Labour seems unwilling to take that step though, trying to just do more with less basically, which explains why gilts have been rising recently.
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u/BreadSniffer3000 Germany 17h ago edited 13h ago
Gonna be fun when Reform, RN, AfD, PiS, Fratelli, PVV etc. are all at power at the same time at some point during the next 4 years.
Not.
EDIT: guy starts defending PiS, calls AfD "merkelist" and immediatly blocks me so I cant reply. Classic r/europe moment.
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u/demaraje 16h ago
If UK, Germany, Italy, Spain, Romania, Poland all say "Fuck you, I'm the best", who wins?
Russia
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u/khajiitidanceparty Czech Republic 16h ago
ANO in the Czech Republic, too. They seem to be leaning to stop helping Ukraine as well.
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u/TheCollector39 17h ago
It feels like the Antichrist is assembling his ten kingdoms…
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u/Spirited-Cheek7244 16h ago
If only the legacy parties had have listened to what the majority of voters want.
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u/zdzislav_kozibroda Poland 16h ago
Much easier to brand the opposing side as morons and racists.
No uncomfortable questions to answer or risk of having to do anything about issues in question.
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u/Spirited-Cheek7244 16h ago
This is it. Its crazy to think that people should just accept mass migration and if you dont it makes you a racist.
The greatest con that the capitalist corporations ever pulled was to trick the do gooding left into voting against their interests.
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u/NekoCatSidhe 16h ago
The majority of voters want to have everything for free, and then get mad when the politicians they elected tell them it is not possible.
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u/InternetSolid4166 15h ago
In this case they’re not asking for rainbows and unicorns. They just want sensible immigration policy. It’s not unreasonable. The last 10 years has been unprecedented for Europe in all of history.
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u/Spirited-Cheek7244 16h ago
The majority of voters asked for an end to mass migration and neither of the parties delivered. THis isnt about getting stuff for free.
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u/Pepparkakan Sweden 15h ago
SD in Sweden too. ☹️
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u/Wertyne 14h ago
SD will not have any meaningful influence after the next election. Sure they will be big but the left wing coalition is leading so far ahead in the polls (and have for the majority of the past few years) that they will be able to ignore almost all right wing votes in Parliament
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u/Theumaz South Holland (Netherlands) 13h ago
PVV absolutely won’t be in power coming October. They’ve already quit their own cabinet and VVD (right), CDA (Right-center Christiandemocrats), D66 (progressige center right) and PvDAGL (left) all said they don’t want to rule with him because he took zero responsibilities. Without those 4 it’s next to impossible for the PVV to form a coalition.
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u/sokratesz 11h ago
Let's bloody hope so. Nobody should ever want to reign with them again considering how unreliable and downright batshit crazy they've proven to be, several times now.
But they can still hold on to anywhere between 20-30 seats (out of 150) and paralyse our politics.
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u/TheMidwestMarvel United States of America 16h ago
You guys had a literal decade of warnings as well as the US shitting the bed an election cycle early.
But leftist/moderate groups always held on to just enough power that they didn’t feel the need to change on some of their immigration policies.
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u/Darkhoof Portugal 15h ago
Leftist or moderate groups barely held any power in the EU. The lack of regulation of social media was the culprit. The algorithm constantly pushes rage bait to keep people mad, Russian psy-ops inflame that and social media companies don't regulate that when asked by democracies. But when dictatorships or autocracies demand they restrict their services they do it immediately.
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u/Eunomia28 16h ago
Keir Starmer's Labour Party are the biggest enablers of the far-right. They are handing Farage this country on a platter.
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u/dat_9600gt_user Lower Silesia (Poland) 12h ago
All while not even really adhering to left-wing principles. The goddamned Lib Dems are further left now.
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u/AmazingSibylle 16h ago
Let me guess, the media covers Farage way differently than the rest. He is always in the newspaper with some non-newsworthy bs while actual policy challenges are not being discussed because it doesn't engage people enough.
Yeah, we have big problems with the media and the influence of money and Russia. How can democracy function with such an uninformed public.
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u/Jakeyboy143 16h ago
If there's anything the Russians are good at is sheer propaganda and using right-wing politicians to weaken Ukraine while feeding their own citizens with their own bs.
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14h ago
As a Dane, colour me surprised.....
We had the exact same thing happen in Denmark some 20-25 years ago, until the old parties woke up.
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u/InternetofTings 12h ago edited 11h ago
Reddit seem to be in a bubble in how they don’t realise how much Labour are hated, people disliked the Tories but Labour are despised and I say that as a guy from a traditional Labour voting area.
People want change from the 2 party political system that fails the UK time and time again, whether Reform are that right change or not remains to be seen, but they are the only foreseeable change.
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u/Heavy_Practice_6597 4h ago
We have the new Zara Sultana Fruitcake party to take a crack at too now!
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u/mxmmnn 16h ago
Incredible to witness that one of the key man causing Britain to be in chaos for a decade, to now come back stronger because Britain is in chaos and promise to reform it.
British people, what is going on in your head?
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u/omgu8mynewt 15h ago
Same as everywhere else. He's a really good and clear speaker, talks a lot about National Pride and is anti-immigration, insults the other political parties with insults that can't be returned because he's never been in power so has no record to defend. Really good at social media and making viral clips. Same as every other populist right wing party which are currently doing very well everywhere.
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u/AdMean6001 13h ago
The difference is that elsewhere they haven't yet voted for the equivalent of Farage. In the UK, Farage openly mocked you during Brexit by systematically lying and then quickly leaving once the disaster struck.
Logically, a guy like that should no longer be listened to by any voter in the country... yet he has 35% of the vote!
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u/omgu8mynewt 13h ago
You don't think populism is also happening on the continent? Have you heard of AFD in Germany, Meloni in Italy, Le Pen in France and 'Sweden Democrats'? Right wing populism is a completely UK special case?
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u/dat_9600gt_user Lower Silesia (Poland) 12h ago
Mostly fear of migration - the same exact trick used to get Britain out of the EU.
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u/AlfredTheMid England 15h ago
Because that's not how it's seen at all. Remember, Farage has never once been in power. Successive governments have continuously failed to deliver what the British people want, most notably, low immigration.
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u/Warm_Pool8092 17h ago
Uk is going for the "fell for it award" next uh?
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u/spacemansanjay 15h ago
Respectfully I would say the UK fell for it a long time ago. I mean Murdoch started buying UK tabloids in the late 1960's. He was the one who decided to make Thatcher appear appealing enough to be elected. And he did the same for Blair and Cameron.
The politicians who in our lifetimes have done the most damage to the nation owe their careers to Murdoch. Without his influence they would be nothing, our opinions of each other would be softer, and the nation would be something very different.
I don't think it's an exaggeration to say he could be the most influential man of the last century. I mean imagine if Fox News didn't exist. If The Sun didn't exist. If all of these media companies were run by someone with a different agenda.
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u/SwiftJedi77 13h ago
This is how we got here, it's always been the media that's the problem.
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u/4materasu92 United Kingdom 16h ago
I hope we're not as gullible as the Americans, but after Brexit and our current hyperfixation on immigration, I haven't got my hopes up.
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u/PoiHolloi2020 United Kingdom 14h ago
This shit is happening all over Europe, it's not specifric to the UK. People here can point and laugh while the Wilders and Melonis get elected and AfD and National Rally continue to rise.
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u/PM_ME_BUTTERED_SOSIJ Wales 16h ago
I have a migrant hotel on the outskirts of my once quiet village.
Would you like to visit and see how life has changed?
My daughters friend (aged 11 at the time) was accosted by one of these men, she was asked if she would be his girlfriend, and he then showed her a video of him masturbating and ejaculating.
I will vote for anyone that will stop this nonsense. Including Farage.
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u/AlfredTheMid England 15h ago
You being downvoted and told that your problems aren't real by the commenters below is exactly why reform are going to win.
When we have Farage as PM soon, people have no one to blame except themselves and their left wing arrogance
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u/PM_ME_BUTTERED_SOSIJ Wales 15h ago
Yea it's weird. Some of the comments have been really aggressive?
I've voted Labour most of my life, including at the last election, but I value the safety of my children more than anything, and downvotes on reddit are extremely unlikely to change that
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u/Grotzbully 16h ago
And why do you have this hotel? Because the Tories broke the system, so they can place immigrants in hotels which are owned by their friends and donors for higher prices so they make money. The issue aren't the immigrants, the issue is that the Tories broke the system deliberately. Reform won't fix that issue btw, why would they. If populists actually fix the problem they constantly cry about, they would have nothing else and nobody would vote for them. Farage is as pro immigration as the Tories are.
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u/RepulsiveBridge2018 16h ago
Did the tories break the system in every other country? Exact same thing is happening in Ireland, France, Germany, Italy etc
So if people want the issue fixed and the left, center and right cant/won't fix it who do you expect people to vote for?
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u/fishsticksandmayo 14h ago
As apposed to the other options that will definitely respect the wishes of the voters
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u/Fearless-Star3288 14h ago
Farage caused a financial crisis by conning people into voting for Brexit. He’s now using the resulting crisis to get himself elected into power. Are people really this stupid?
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u/JRHEvilInc United Kingdom 16h ago
"Shock"? For who? This is the most obvious outcome for anyone who has been paying attention. Labour responded to the collapse of the Tory party by abandoning their core base and attempting to appeal to Tories, then after the election chose a specialist balance of policies that both further alienated leftists and pissed off centrists. It's one of the most inept governments in living memory, beating only Liz Truss in competence.
Their only chance is somehow winning back the leftists they've spat on for multiple years, and I really don't think they're willing to take that step. If they don't, Corbyn's new party might avert a Reform win, but I wouldn't bet big money on it.
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u/aapowers United Kingdom 15h ago
I'm struggling to think of any major policies that haven't been cancelled or watered down due to fear of: the left wing of their own party; old people; the 'markets'; the IMF; party donors; Donald Trump.
They had a decade and a half to look at the country and think 'what needs to change?' - and instead seems to have been blown from pillar to post by indecision and lack of vision.
I can name at least half a dozen major reforms brought in by New Labour that fundamentally altered our constitutional settlement and/or improved people's lives. I can criticise the detail, but there was undeniable vision.
What have Labour done this time? U turns and made plans for some new mayors (who will spend their lives talking about the things they would like to do if they'd been given some money).
Roll on tax rises!
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u/sammi_8601 13h ago
There's not that much left wing left in labour, but Donald trump they still suck up to him (although that's logical tbf minging but logical), trans rights, the disability cuts, OSA they've all not backed down from. I'd say the winter fuel payments was more backing down from right wing stuff myself as well.
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u/Diligent_Craft_1165 14h ago
The left want increased government spending, but no increases to taxes for working people. They’re living in fantasy land and are part of the reason we’ll get reform.
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u/harry6466 15h ago
Brexit wasn't enough of a lesson for britons to not trust Farage it seems.
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u/ahoyhoy2022 17h ago
All of you who have been pointing fingers at the US, remember how close you in your own countries are to elected fascist governments.
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u/bigmac1339 United Kingdom 10h ago
It's baffling to me how on this subreddit in particular, there are daily articles bashing the US/Trump, yet threads like this are always full of people justifying voting for parties headed by politicians like Farage who want their countries to be Trump's America lite
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u/gookman European Union 15h ago
The difference is that most European countries haven't elected one yet. You have. Twice I might say.
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u/Darkhoof Portugal 15h ago
And your point is? You felt slighted by someone and you want us to be miserable as well?
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u/hacktheself Ελλάς 16h ago
When the media gives this guy seemingly infinite airtime whilst denying the same to the Greens, who have the same number of seats, it isn’t a shock.
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u/omgu8mynewt 15h ago
Let alone lib dems who won 72 seats whereas reform have 4.
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u/AlfredTheMid England 15h ago
Lib Dems are seen as completely irrelevant to most people
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u/omgu8mynewt 15h ago
Not true, lib dems have 18 times as many MPs as reform and control of 76 local councils. Reform have only 4 MPs out of 650 and control 10 councils.
Saying people don't care about lib dems is obviously untrue in our democracy, reform are way over represented in the media compared to how people actually vote in our system.
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u/Ok-Chest-7932 13h ago
And still seen as irrelevant because lib dem MPs are mostly southern nimbys who have been basically interchangeable with conservatives for years. Lib dems have a lot of safe seats, but basically zero appeal outside of them, because labour have historically been the tactical vote everywhere else.
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u/Lucine_machine U.K. 12h ago
Farage who wants to build £12 billion megaprisons and pull out of the UN convention on torture. I have little confidence that a significant amount of his voters consider more than 'people on boats are destroying Britain' when they vote.
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u/fangiovis 14h ago
And do what? He ran with his tail between his legs after he got his brexit, applied for a german pasport (Irony seems to be lost on his voting bloc on that one) and didn't bother showing his face untill everything was settled just so he could criticize everything ignoring he ran when he could have used his influence. Not to mention during his tenure in the EU he only excelled in his absence.
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u/LordpoopyfaceHd79 Australia 15h ago
Are all British parties just arse? What will it take for actual change
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u/AlfredTheMid England 15h ago
Well that's why people are voting for reform. They want change and they realise that the main parties are arse
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u/devilman123 12h ago
It isn't really a surprise. The two main parties have taken things for granted. Labor cannot get a single thing done, they even fought for the epping migrant hotel to house immigrants. People are not blind, they see what their government is actively doing - and they dont want this anymore.
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u/MonkeLord1234 United Kingdom 11h ago
We've got great choices over here:
- Conservatives - Will pillage our own country for selfish gain.
- Labour - Will do nothing useful and censor the internet.
- Reform - Will literally make us a Trump wannabe state.
- Lib dems - Likely won't win anything because of how they bent over backwards for the Conservatives a few years back.
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u/coastaltikka 11h ago
Fucked up voting system when 65% of people would despise having them in power, yet 35% could still get them in with the winner-takes-all voting we have. There should be more than one round of voting, where the top two from the first round go against each other. That way people can back whichever party opposes Reform, even if that wasn’t who they voted for initially.
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u/LieutBromhead 14h ago
This isn't a surprise, migration has not been controlled which is what was the main contributing factor of Brexit. So if Labour or the Conservative parties won't listen to years of the population wanting that change, then no wonder Reform are getting that support now even from people from all over the political spectrum like myself (long time Labour voter).
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u/NoScientist344 15h ago
I don’t think most people want Farage. They just want deportations. Moderate deportations of criminals and chronically unemployed foreigners.
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u/Beginning-Crew1842 13h ago
It's sad how people are structurally incapable of recognizing grifters.
They just go to whatever grifter hasn't burned them recently, and that just attracts more of the same.
It's a death spiral for democracy.
The only fundamental difference with the UK is that not all democratic countries are as far along this path.
A few are further, and that doesn't look like a particularly good future.
I want off this timeline.
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u/Master_m1santhrope 12h ago
This is not a shock unless you live in an echo chamber completely detached from the reality of what is happening in the UK.
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u/fugebox007 8h ago
This guy was behind the Brexit together with Boris. Are British that stupid?
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u/WannabeAby 11h ago
But surely Labour being a bit more:
- racist
- transphobic
- pro rich
- assholes
- destroying public services
Will allow them to regain that ? Right ? Right ?
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u/Nachooolo Galicia (Spain) 13h ago
A reminder that the next UK General Elections are in 2029.
The way some people are talking about these polls, you would think that they were happening in a few months...