r/europe • u/AlfredsChild England • 2d ago

News Reform takes shock 15-point lead over Labour as Farage dreams of winning power

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/reform-shock-15-point-lead-labour-farage-power-3887857
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u/JRHEvilInc United Kingdom 2d ago

This should not be a shock to anyone who has actually been paying attention. Labour may have had a landslide in seats, but they actually only squeaked through on votes, and since then have decided to alienate their entire left wing base while also pissing off moderates and centrists.

As a staunch lefty, this whole government has just been like watching a car crash in slow motion. The only hope I have for a government not led by Farage after the next election is if Corbyn's party somehow pulls off a miracle victory.

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u/vojdek 2d ago

As long as it’s “Corbyn’s party”…you might want to adjust your expectations.

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u/thendisnigh111349 2d ago

Labour under Corbyn got more votes than Starmer did. He simply wasn't lucky enough to be the leader when the Tories self-imploded by themselves.

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u/dat_9600gt_user Lower Silesia (Poland) 1d ago

Come to think of it, why did Corbyn lose as much as he did?

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u/thendisnigh111349 1d ago

By the 2019 election it had been over three years since the Brexit referendum and no progress had been made on a withdrawal agreement due to political deadlock. Boris Johnson had centered his entire campaign on promising to get Brexit done and over with whereas Corbyn lacked a clear stance on it and suggested a referendum on the withdrawal agreement. People had become completely exhausted with Brexit being the dominating issue and had no appetite for the process to drag on even longer.

Also the Brexit party led by Nigel Farage pretty much completely sat out of the election which prevented right-wing vote splitting that hurt the Tories in previous elections.

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u/Zephinism Dorset County - United Kingdom 1d ago

Pro russia ties, pro hezbollah ties, terrible foreign policy, anti-NATO, said he would likely never use our nukes. Wishywashy on Brexit (campaigned against it, was personally for Brexit)

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u/Vancelan Flanders (Belgium) 1d ago edited 1d ago

Because he rejected an offer by the Greens, the Lib Dems, and the SNP to coordinate tactical voting whereby everyone would be standing down in constituencies where one of them could win while the others could not. It was essentially an offer to make him PM of a grand anti-Tory alliance.

Corbyn rejected, because he did not want to share power and thought he could win it alone. As a result, the anti-Tory vote was split everywhere, and everyone lost a ton of constituencies except for the Tories, who were catapulted into a comfortable majority government with a minority of votes.

Corbynites then proceeded to attack and blame everyone but themselves, even claiming that everyone else should've stood down anyway in spite of Corbyn's Labour spitting in their faces, having absolutely zero self-awareness of their own role in what happened and arrogantly laying the blame at everyone else's feet. 

Exactly the same thing happened in 2024 but on the right, which is how Starmer became PM. Labour clearly hasn't learned any lessons from any of this though, and continues to piss off everyone else. And neither has Corbyn, because the only potential his new party has is to split the vote even more. 

The UK desperately needs proportional representation instead of first-past-the-post. Labour has actually uttered some things along those lines in the past, only to quickly backtrack once in power because nobody wants to potentially lose their seat in parliament once that reform is made. 

As long as you have a somewhat large and stable base, you're going to be the one who has unilateral majority rule at some point, and they all prefer this to being in power continuously but having to work with others and having to make compromises through democratic consent. 

So instead the UK keeps running a system where half of voters aren't even represented and calls it "democracy".

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u/limpingdba 1d ago

The media powers slaughtered corbyn once, and they'll do it again. Who do you think these powers would prefer: Corbyn or Farage? We are fucked.

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u/Key_Calligrapher1958 1d ago

Corbyn couldn't beat May with a well established party whilst Torries were currently and completely fucking us all, unless he gets incredibly lucky with 2029 I don't see any way he wins on popular vote let alone FPP. He missed his chance in 2017 and then fully blew it in 2019, what makes you think 2029 would be any different?

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u/No_Sugar8791 1d ago

I'm not sure this is true. At the time, more centrists were worried about Corbyn than the tories. That bat shit crazy run up to polling day, including free broadband for everyone, really cemented his loss.

As an example- Can you imagine osa but now the government is your isp? Utter madness.

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u/Chester_roaster 1d ago

Wasn't lucky enough to be leader or lost the support of his party by being soft on anti-semitism? 

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u/UltraCynar Canada 1d ago

Lucky enough to be leader just looking at the vote count. 

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u/Chester_roaster 1d ago

Frankly he was lucky Blaire tolerated him enough to even be in the party 

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u/Blonde_Streak_ 2d ago

A left resurgence would require compromise on immigration and the left refuses to entertain the idea under any circumstances it seems, so Farage it is.

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u/ExtraPockets United Kingdom 2d ago

The Denmark model is there for the taking. I'm sure huge numbers of left leaning voters would trade immigration for workers rights, tax reform, environmental policies etc.

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u/SmileSmite83 1d ago

The Denmark model works in Denmark because the left is much more united in their position on immigration and asylum there, in the UK though most of the left is still very pro multiculturalism.

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u/Sylvinias Europe 1d ago edited 1d ago

Over here in the Netherlands too. The Socialist Party has been extremely anti-immigration and anti-eu for over two decades, to the point they’re now proposing a full migration stop (which isn’t feasible) and leaving Schengen (which is outright suicidal for a trade-centric country), alongside pushes for worker’s rights, tax reform, health care costs, and housing construction.

They have been bleeding voters for all those years and are now pretty much electorally irrelevant. The ‘educated’ city-dwelling left doesn’t want them, and the anti-immigration people just vote for the right wing parties who promises the above and banning the Quran, giving them victory after victory. Even when we get a far-right government and they fuck everything up while delivering nothing, the polls show the voters migrating to other far-right parties before even considering a vote for the left. The more progressive leftist party (GreenLeft-Labour) holds its own much better.

In the UK it would be even worse, because they have First Past The Post, so splitting off a leftist wing from another will tear them apart in parlement. (Denmark and the Netherlands’s parliaments are vote-proportional.)

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u/SmileSmite83 1d ago

And I’m sure that party is probably more serious about socialism considering that billionaires quite literally support mass immigration mainly for cheap labour purposes. But yeah you make a good point, Starmer hasnt even really done anything in regard to immigration but his tougher rhetoric alone has isolated student/left wing voters. I feel like an important thing to ntoe is the UK has pursued a policy of multiculturalism for longer than other countries in Europe and has always been proud about people having their rights to practice their religion and culture more so than other countries in Europe, and this is also reflected in the education system. The UK now has a sectarianism problem and there are these new “pro gaza” independents who are basically muslims standing under a pro muslim platform in parts of the UK with high muslim populations, yet all the focus is on reform when we have this equally conservative if not more conservative bloc of voters growing quickly.

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u/epicurean1398 1d ago

To anyone with any knowledge on the subject they'll know that mass immigration is completely antithetical to strong unions, workers rights and higher wages

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u/Bloomhunger 1d ago

It’s not about common sense anymore. It’s all about identity politics and tribalism.

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u/JRHEvilInc United Kingdom 2d ago

No, let's do this. Go ahead. I'm a leftist and I'm willing to compromise. Lay out your plan. I want to avoid a Farage premiership so I'm genuinely listening.

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u/uwatfordm8 1d ago

Corbyn isn't listening though. He's set in his ways and won't change. He backed Brexit, he doesn't want involvement in any wars even if it means letting Ukraine lose. He didn't do enough to dispel the anti-Semitism smear campaign.

He's never going to win an election as he's not likeable, outside of his left wing electorate that are not and will not be enough to win a sizeable amount of seats.

It's also clear to me that Corbyn will not do anything to curb immigration either so he's got absolutely no chance. 

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u/Last-Mix-838 1d ago

Yeah I have to agree. He even ran in two elections as the leader of the Labour party. If he couldn't win against Theresa May, realistically he doesn't stand a chance against Labour and Reform

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u/VeryProidChintu 1d ago

That might hv been true in the past but his views are much diff now

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u/Prestigious_Egg9554 1d ago

In which regard?

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u/uwatfordm8 1d ago

Which views if you don't mind me asking? 

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u/6rwoods 1d ago

Frankly, I'm not against Corbyn's view on Ukraine. Yeah, it's sad and all, but at the end of the day it's not our war, it's not even a war we can massively change the outcome of no matter how much we get involved (as seen thus far), and we have plenty of issues here at home that should take precedence over increasing our defence spending to keep getting involved in foreign conflicts. Hell, maybe if we stopped caring more about Ukraine than about Britain then Putin wouldn't be so keen on messing with out politics anymore...

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u/uwatfordm8 1d ago

Sorry but that's a terrible take.

Even if you don't care about defending Ukrainian or it's people, on the doorstep of the EU, there's plenty of benefit to us supporting them. 

A lot of support is through our own weapons sales.

We're constantly being attacked by Russia, whether it's through poisoning people on our turf, hacking, information warfare, cutting our undersea internet lines and probably countless other things every people aren't aware of. There's no head in the sand approach that can avoid that, Russia are the instigators. As if they weren't already doing this before 2014.

"we're barely helping (as seen thus far)" is based on what exactly? Us providing a lot of meaningful help doesn't mean we needed to have pushed the Ukrainian army to Moscow. 

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u/6rwoods 1d ago

>A lot of support is through our own weapons sales.

You mean the compromised weapons we buy from America and then resell to them?? Or the weapons and armaments we could be stockpiling for our own eventual use instead of pouring it all into a losing war and then be left unprotected whenever Russia still wins anyway and moves on to a proper NATO country next? Or when the US decides to invade Greenland? Or when China invades Taiwan and Europe has nothing left with which to participate in that war, much less enough domestic manufacturing to replace China because we've been spending all of our resources on a foreign war instead??

>We're constantly being attacked by Russia, whether it's through poisoning people on our turf, hacking, information warfare, cutting our undersea internet lines and probably countless other things every people aren't aware of.

Right, and I guess the way we stop that happening is by helping Ukrainians (unsuccessfully) defend their border regions and giving Russia even more reason to want to sabotage us? Instead of fighting fire with fire and sabotaging them underhandedly, we do the loudest, brashest and most useless thing possible by posing for pictures and making grand statements about protecting Ukraine (whilst also not even doing enough to actually make a difference, only enough to keep the war of attrition going indefinitely)??

>Us providing a lot of meaningful help doesn't mean we needed to have pushed the Ukrainian army to Moscow. 

"Us providing a lot of (meaningful???) help doesn't mean we need to actually help them win! Helping them delay their guaranteed loss and ensure more casualties and more destruction of infrastructure in the meantime is just as beneficial :))" Please listen to yourself.

In IR it is well understood that the US *wants* to keep the war going indefinitely, to tire out both Russia and Europe and effectively clear the field for an upcoming US v China confrontation. And this isn't just Trump, it was very much already American foreign policy before, they were just more diplomatic about it.

Now with Trump in charge, it's likely that the US also benefits from an weakened, distracted Europe, so they can keep threatening to annex Greenland or invade Venezuela or whatever else, or at the very least keep selling compromised weapons to Europe whilst Europe is too weak and poor to put up a fight. Hence the ridiculous, one sided trade deals that the EU has agreed to and the increased tariffs the UK was just recently blindsided by -- if Europe is spending all its money (and going into more debt) to keep fighting an unwinnable war, then they'll have fewer options to focus on their domestic issues AND pass judgement on international affairs. We're bankrupting ourselves and making our people angrier, opening the door for Russian backed politicians like Farage or Germany's AfD who promise 'change' to the masses but really only helps Russia sabotage us even more. This is the long-term result of continuing to focus more on Ukraine than on ourselves. It only helps Russia more. But most people can't see that far, I guess.

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u/A-NI95 1d ago

Britain falling for appeasement? Again?

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u/Popular-Wolverine-99 1d ago

Hope you don't have an opinion on the Israel / Palestine war because that would be a bit hypocritical otherwise.

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u/dolphkent 1d ago

You have a truly shocking view on Ukraine

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u/Rednblack99 1d ago

Obviously the original commenter didn't reply because they have no compromise in mind. It's empty words. But I do have opinions on how the left can "fix" immigration. The right wing media would tear it to shreds, but I do believe it's the only viable option.

Currently there are 0 ways to apply for legal refugee status from outside the UK. You literally have to smuggle yourself in before you can apply. That has to change. Create legal routes for application from outside the UK so people don't have to risk their lives with snuggling gangs.

Once you have those legal routes it gives much more wiggle room to be tough on those who enter illegally. I don't think it would fly with international law as written, but for sure some legal variation on the Reform plan of "you enter illegally, you're out. End of. No exceptions" - they have to apply through the legal routes from outside the country.

Finally, you have to fund the courts to process refugee claims in a timely manner. Give courts the money and resources to process 100% of claims within 6 months. Including all the appeals and such like.

The funding is perhaps the most important part, because the refugee hotels, barges etc. are the most visible part of illegal immigration that gives people something to latch on to.

I imagine it's not a perfect plan, I'm not an expert or a lawyer, but it's something and I sure as shit think it's better than anything the actual political parties are proposing right now.

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u/HIP13044b United Kingdom 1d ago

The problem is that "the left" doesn't exist as an entity in the same way the right does. It's not a homogeneous block. it's desperate with very different ideas with detailed nuance. The modern right always opts for the simple blunt solution. This is why the left turns on itself so often.

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u/dat_9600gt_user Lower Silesia (Poland) 1d ago

That requires credibility on the issue. The left meanwhile had already cemented itself in the minds of everyone that they're the pro-migration option. An anti-migration shift now would look insincere.

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u/Vanceer11 1d ago

The problem has always been 14 years of the Tories destroying the UK’s “middle class” and quality of life for the non-wealthy. Yet in the background Farage has been blaming immigrants for people’s woes and now it’s going full bore immigrant blaming with the help of the media.

Immigrants aren’t responsible for destroying the NHS. Immigrants aren’t responsible for wages being terrible. Immigrants aren’t responsible for the shit economy. Immigrants aren’t responsible for England being London focused. The right wing are, aided by the media.

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u/h3r3andth3r3 2d ago

Corbyn may be the hopeful here but unfortunately it's quite clear that he's also in Russia's pocket.

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u/VeryProidChintu 1d ago

Lol thats literally reform. They are so sympathetic to Russia that they hv gone as far as to say Russia shluld win and ukraine should end the war

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u/Electronic_Tell1294 1d ago

let’s not forget his love of anti-uk terrorists

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u/JRHEvilInc United Kingdom 2d ago

Possibly so. Any clear evidence for that, though? I know he was very wary of blaming Russia when they very blatantly assassinated that police officer on our soil a while back, but naive pacifism would also explain that. What else links him with Russia? (Genuine question. I'm not a diehard Corbynista)

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u/plumzki 1d ago

It wouldn't be the first time naive pacifism left him open to things like accusations of being a terrorist sympathiser etc.

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u/Socmel_ reddit mods are accomplices of nazi russia 1d ago

I think old school far leftists like Corbyn are not in Russia's pockets. Far righters need to be bought with corruption money, the far left does it for free because RuZZia being anti NATO is enough for them.

Their brain still leaves in the Cold War.

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u/Fragglesmurfbutt Gibraltar 2d ago

You mean the same Corbyn that chugs on Putin's dick as much as Farage does?

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u/JRHEvilInc United Kingdom 2d ago

I'm no Corbynista, but what's your evidence for that? And what's the viable alternative in modern UK politics? This is a genuine question. I am in no way suggestion "Corbyn is our only hope", and frankly I would LOVE to be convinced otherwise.

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u/Fragglesmurfbutt Gibraltar 2d ago

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/02/jeremy-corbyn-urges-west-to-stop-arming-ukraine

https://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/why-jeremy-corbyn-and-nigel-farage-are-useful-idiots-for-vladimir-putin-5008669

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/jeremy-corbyn-sides-with-russia-again/

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/corbyn-faces-rising-rebellion-on-reluctance-to-blame-putin-a3791906.html

Different sources so pick your poison really.

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u/JRHEvilInc United Kingdom 2d ago

Is your stance therefore that there's no hope for the UK, or do you have any viable stance for us at all that will lead to some positive chance, even on a local level?

Again, this is a genuine question. I'm running low on hope and am very open to any suggestion that positive change might be viable.

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u/Fragglesmurfbutt Gibraltar 2d ago

The UK is dead. You vote Labour or Conservative you still end up in more poverty while the rich get richer and the country gets flooded with cultures that don't like you. You vote Dems and you will get the same.

We are currently in the middle of WW3 and the alternatives to the traditional parties that have put you in poverty are two parties that want to help Putin take Ukraine, which will inevitably mean Putin takes more of Europe causing more instability, causing more poverty.

You want to rejoin the EU? That's great, then you realise they just sold themselves out to Trump, while the individual government's themselves lean more and more towards Putin.

Reform should have never been able to hit top of the polls. Killing them is easy. You stop uncontrolled migration, which they have the power to do, they just don't as the rich like cheap labour. When people have a roof over their heads, bills paid, and enough money to live the comfortable life they have worked for, they don't need to vote for grifters in a last attempt to fix it.

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u/JRHEvilInc United Kingdom 2d ago

Okay. Let's presume you are correct (which, for the record, I'm not convinced you are). Give some viable pathway. Even an illegal one. Genuinely, I'll take anything that's plausible. Because "You're fucked unless everyone decides to be sensible" is NOT a viable stance, it's surrender packaged as nihilism in order to protect the self-esteem of the messenger.

We don't need shit like "The UK is dead". We need a model for community-led activism, clear goals and strategies, and something to unite us. It doesn't need to adhere to the currently accepted model of social norms. It just needs to exist.

I'm fucking done with defeatist nihilist bullshit. We can't just sit and wait for the elites to decide they want to be sensible and practical for the greater good. We need shit to do and we need to start doing it now.

So what's your suggestion? Again, as I've said in multiple of my messages, this is not a rhetorical question. This is not me being adversarial. This is a genuine question. Lay out your plan of action. Because if your plan is "Give up, because shit's fucked", then you need to move over and let people with actual plans at least attempt to correct the course we're on.

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u/Fragglesmurfbutt Gibraltar 2d ago

My suggestion is to emigrate while you still can.

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u/JRHEvilInc United Kingdom 2d ago

Then respectfully fuck off. This is my country and I'll fight for it until I'm dead. If you want to leave or if you're not even British, shut the fuck up and let us try to organise some resistance. We don't need defeatist bullshit, we need community action and a plan to unify the resistance to fascism.

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u/Fragglesmurfbutt Gibraltar 2d ago

What's your plan to fight it then? You started a new party? Voting Corbyn to sell out to Russia. What's the game plan here? Services have already crumbled and the place is already having race riots. How you fixing it?

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u/6rwoods 1d ago

First link, from 3 years ago: "arming Ukraine will only extend the war and won't help them win". 3 years later, Ukraine is nowhere near winning and just keeps getting pushed back, just as claimed, but you want to say Corbyn was wrong for saying it in advance?

Second link is paywalled, can't comment on that.

3rd link only mentions the "siding with Russia" thing in passing and mostly discusses the same as the first link, namely that Corbyn feels that fanning the fire of the Ukraine war isn't helpful, which again, we now know to be true since it's been over 3 years and we're nowhere near an end to the war. The article is also extremely loaded with ragebaity phrasing that shows quite clearly how the author feels about Corbyn regardless of facts.

4th link's intro is about Corbyn refusing to blame Putin but literally says NOTHING about how or why nor does it includes any actual quotes. It spends most of its extremely short length talking about some "Sir Kevin" (whoever he is) instead of actually being about Corbyn. Great factual report!

If you know anything about International Relations or Geopolitics (doubtful, based on what you think passes for 'evidence'), it's actually quite a common view that NATO *has* been encroaching on the buffer states between NATO and Russia (including Ukraine and Georgia), which in great part baited Russia into attacking in order to defend its sphere of influence and not have enemies right across their borders. Obviously it helps that they wanted that land back anyway, but keeping them as friendly states with puppet leaders a la Belarus would've been enough otherwise. It's called realpolitik, if you've ever heard of it, and NATO knew exactly what it was doing too.

It's also a pretty popular view in IR that the US is intentionally dragging out the Ukraine conflict in order to keep Russia and Europe distracted whilst the US focuses on fighting China (they operate under the assumption that China will try to take Taiwan fairly soon), i.e. if Russia and Europe spend their money and arms on Ukraine, they won't have much left to fight China or the US itself or in any way throw their military weight around to stop the US, e.g., trying to attack Venezuela or Greenland.

And Europe unfortunately has taken the bait, and continues to pour money and resources it can't afford to lose on an unwinnable war against Russia whilst denying their own citizens basic services and infrastructure repairs because "there's no money". And here we are in the UK, not building enough housing or new energy facilities or reservoirs so the farmers don't go bankrupt from drought or train lines to bridge the North-South divide or funding the NHS, etc etc etc, but we do have plenty of money when it comes to buying compromised American fighter jets to ship over to Ukraine and Israel! As a taxpayer, I love having my money spent on wars that have nothing to do with me :)

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u/EfficientTitle9779 1d ago

Jesus Christ talking about sucking Putins dick 😂😂

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u/SingleUseJetki 2d ago

None of these sources are evidence. They are just lazy accusations by right wing propagandists

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u/Fragglesmurfbutt Gibraltar 2d ago

Guardian is right wing now?

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u/Outside_Break 2d ago

There’s more chance of the Lib Dems winning than anything to do with Corbyn

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u/Tifoso89 Italy 1d ago

The only thing Corbyn is doing is siphoning votes from the Greens and LibDem, further diluting the leftist vote

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u/Master_m1santhrope 1d ago

This is the problem with staunch lefties. 

You villify the likes of farage but think Corbyn would be better ?? 

Why ? Because as long as people share your views they are good and those who don't are bad. This partisan dogma is the problem in the west.

Them Vs us BS.

Focus on the fact that Labour are a car crash and give someone else the opportunity to lead.another lefty government won't introduce change. 

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u/Spiritual_Use_8524 2d ago

But Reddit tells me Nigel Farage is irrelevant????

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u/JRHEvilInc United Kingdom 2d ago

Shock horror, Reddit lied.

That said, it'd be really fucking great if instead of bitching about him we managed to use our collective power to MAKE him irrelevant before the next election. Getting involved in positively impacting our local communities and accepting that British/English pride is not mutually exclusive to progressive policies would work wonders.

If anyone's reading this and doesn't know where to start, I'd suggest getting involved in local litter picks, contacting local charities asking what they need (besides money) and just generally expressing an interest in the wellbeing of your neighbours would be amazing (bonus points for doing so while being identifiably leftwing but not obnoxiously so)

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u/The_Artist_Who_Mines 1d ago

It's 4 years to the next election

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u/_abstrusus 1d ago

It's funny that the likelihood of Reform getting more of the vote than Labour did at the last election is still low, and yet people are gleefully talking about a Reform victory (which, to me, still seems unlikely) as if the party, or Farage, are popular.

They are not.

All Corbyn's party will achieve is increasing the likelihood of a Farage led government.

At this stage, the most plausible, and best, outcome would be a Labour/Liberal coalition.

But hey. I have private health cover. I earn more than most. I'll be more insulated from a Reform led government than most. I can leave the country. If the idiots on both thr left and right want Farage? Meh.

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u/4got_2wipe_again 1d ago

Labour reminds me very much of the American Democrats. Sad

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u/Teddington_Quin 1d ago

The only hope I have for a government not led by Farage after the next election is of Corbyn’s party somehow pulls off a miracle victory

Which will be even worse than a government led by Farage. Well done.

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u/Bodster88 2d ago

I thought that was a fantastic post until “Corbyn” smh.

It’s the electorate’s obsession to these psychopaths, be it Farage or Corbyn that is the bloody problem. Two sides of the same pod. A Corbyn led party would be as much of a disaster as a party led by Farage.

We need a true centrist party. I don’t understand how hard it is to be socially responsible, but hard on illegal immigration - perhaps I am just naive.

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u/ExtraPockets United Kingdom 2d ago

It's very hard because those two things mean rich donors stop getting richer. Every single aspect of politics has been polluted by money and disproportionate influence of those that can pay for it. The type of rich person who donates to a political party nowadays is one who wants to get richer, it's like a mental illness. Even if a good rich person wanted to donate, there would be no point because ten other rich people would also be donating in order to exploit people more. Centrism has failed because all it does is sell out.

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u/Overton_Glazier 2d ago

We need a true centrist party

You got that with Starmer. No one actually likes centrist governance

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u/JRHEvilInc United Kingdom 2d ago

My inclusion of Corbyn isn't because I think he's some Messiah, but literally because he is currently in the process of creating a new party that polls suggest might impact the outcome of elections. You don't have to like him to accept that he might impact the next election's outcome, and between him and Farage, I'd choose Corbyn every time.

I'm not some Corbynista. I held my nose when I voted for Labour under his leadership, because I felt he was the lesser evil. I still feel he's the lesser evil, but he still needs to win my vote away from the Greens or any potential leftist independents in my area (though there's no sign of the latter).

In the meantime, I'd celebrate a genuine centrist party rising in the UK. I just happen to believe none currently exist. We have right wingers and then various leftists with no chance of national power. If we end up with a centrist party and a left wing party, I'll be over the moon.

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u/Useful_Resolution888 2d ago

Corbyn isn't a psychopath, you'd have to be really drinking the koolaid to believe that. He is a naive and foolish idealist though, and certainly not the right leader at a time like this when war with Russia is looming.

Why are these awful choices the best that our political system can present? Farage, Starmer, Corbyn, Badenoch, Davies - they're all fucking shite.

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u/dat_9600gt_user Lower Silesia (Poland) 1d ago

They really will need a miracle.

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u/Inevitable_Driver291 United Kingdom 1d ago

Of course Reform will win the next election. Anyone who cheered when the courts endlessly thwarted the Rwanda deal were cheering the ascension of Farage. Inhumane? Perhaps, but far less to suffer than the rise of Reform I should imagine. You've got to accept a little, this world of left wing purity, my own values must reign supreme without blemish - it does not work. Pragmatism must find its place, Rwanda was pragmatism, you get a lot of what you want for a little of what you don't. Now the future is nothing that you want, and to boot deals like the Rwandan one will reemerge anyway + far harder immigration policy alongside it too + an economic model you will not agree with, et al.

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u/JanGuillosThrowaway Sweden 1d ago

It should be a shock to anyone believing voters are voting in their best interests.

Don't vote for another wannabe dictator UK. Life is bleak and Corruption is BAD under Orban. And you won't get rid of immigrants either.

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u/bowsmountainer Europe 1d ago

In a winner takes all system, having both Labour and a Corbyn party is going to be terrible for both.

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u/Timmymagic1 1d ago

Corbyns 'Your Party' is already beginning to fracture...and it's barely set up..

Reportedly Sultana and Corbyn are already not speaking..

Comedy gold.

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u/Turnip-for-the-books 1d ago

This poll obviously didn’t offer the option of Your Party but I do think it has a huge chance to do well. They would peel off huge numbers from Labours support and also Lib Dem, Green and even Reform. Aside from racism there are also a lot of Reform voters who have just given up on the old parties and Reform is currently the only new option.