r/europe • u/AlfredsChild England • 2d ago

News Reform takes shock 15-point lead over Labour as Farage dreams of winning power

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/reform-shock-15-point-lead-labour-farage-power-3887857
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u/PatrickTheSosij 1d ago

Lies like yours will just empower farage.

Its real. You need to accept it, and if you don't good bye to any semblance of centrist parties.

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u/berejser These Islands 1d ago

Lies like yours will just empower farage.

What specifically did I say that was a lie?

Its real. You need to accept it, and if you don't good bye to any semblance of centrist parties.

Are you threatening to ban political parties?

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u/PatrickTheSosij 1d ago

The riots were not because of fake news or misinformation. They were going to happen regardless. Once Manchester airport happened, and harehills, there was ALWAYS going to a riot it just needed the match.

No I'm saying that by ignoring the issue we get what we deserve which is these dangerous parties.

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u/berejser These Islands 1d ago

The riots were not because of fake news or misinformation.

Yes they were. Unless you're telling me that the Southport Killer really was a Muslim asylum seeker called Ali al-Shakati and all of the fake news wasn't fake?

It wouldn't make any sense for people protesting the killings to attack mosques and asylum centres unless they falsely believed that the attacker was a Muslim or an asylum seeker.

Their is no other logical explanation for their behaviour. Unless you're about to suggest that it is somehow logical to attack a Burger King because you found a fly in your Big Mac.

They were going to happen regardless.

That's pure speculation on your part.

No I'm saying that by ignoring the issue we get what we deserve which is these dangerous parties.

So you're saying that Britain and the British people deserve far-right race riots because they haven't been voting the way you want them to? What a joke.

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u/Halofit Slovenia 1d ago

I don't know how to explain it to you people any more clearly, because anyone with half a brain has intuited this 10 years ago. This entire - multi country - shift to the hard right is literally just downstream of the simple fact that governments all across the western world decided to engage in massive, depraved, demographic altering, immigration against the wishes of the electorate. They did this again and again, even when they were promising to reduce immigration. They repeatedly hid and lied about the negative consequences of the said immigration, all while the massive pro-immigration NGO racket tarred and feathered everyone who spoke against them on the topic.

It's literally all downstream of that. You want normal politics back? Just stop the 3rd world immigration. It's that simple. You can have all your social democracy, and your safety nets, and your LGBT friendly governance, and everything you want. You just have to stop the immigration. Or you can have the next 30 years of politics just be a constant struggle to keep the far-right out of government in every western country all the time. Your choice.

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u/berejser These Islands 1d ago

Or you can have the next 30 years of politics just be a constant struggle to keep the far-right out of government in every western country all the time. Your choice.

Have you ever considered that, if you are using the far-right as a tool to hold the place hostage so you can get what you want, and what you want just so happens to line up with what the far-right wants, that maybe your position isn't the correct one?

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u/Halofit Slovenia 1d ago

Hitler drank water, therefore water bad?

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u/berejser These Islands 1d ago

That's a really weak argument. Try again.

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u/Halofit Slovenia 1d ago

I'm glad you're able to recognise that. What fascinates me though is that apparently you can't recognise that I'm making fun of you, because that's precisely the argument you made to me.

So I suggest you heed your own advice, and try again yourself.

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u/berejser These Islands 23h ago

You seem to have misunderstood the argument I was making then. I wasn't saying that because evil people thinking something good is good that it must be bad. I was saying that you were using evil people as a tool to achieve something depraved and amoral that they incorrectly think is a good thing, ie the creation of a racist ethnostate.

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u/berejser These Islands 1d ago

Racism and xenophobia are not intuitive, they are emotive. You are not intuiting anything, you are just having an emotional reaction to what is mostly only social media propaganda.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/berejser These Islands 1d ago

Quite a lot of it was overhyped by social media. That doesn't mean to say that it wasn't an issue that needs to be addressed, but address it with sensible reforms not with broad-brush hysteria targeting entire ethnic or religious groups that mostly comprise people who had nothing to do with it.

Since we're talking about the UK, how many pedophiles have been found in senior positions within the far-right in the UK? (hint: the number is higher than what you are thinking)

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u/Halofit Slovenia 1d ago

Quite a lot of it was overhyped by social media.

It is always very revealing when a person is more upset about a reaction to a crime than to the crime itself.

but address it with sensible reforms

Mate, the government and the media have proved that they can't be trusted to do that. You understand that right? People trusted them to do it, and instead they buried the problem, refused to address it and blackballed anyone trying to talk about it.

Do you understand how embarrassing it is for the two main parties, and for the entire media apparatus, that the only person talking about a massive underground crime network targeting young girls was a far-right loon like Tommy Robinson, right? He first talked about it 10 years ago, and they laughed at him with incredulity. For 10 years they, and the supporters of mass immigrations called people talking about it liars, called them far-right loons, called it a moral panic and moved heaven and earth to hide the evidence. And not even once in ten years did they bother to check if it was true.

You understand how utterly deranged that is?

how many pedophiles have been found in senior positions within the far-right in the UK

I don't know and I don't care. Far fewer than the number of rapists the government imported. You understand that doing whataboutisms (about parties and groups I don't care about, mind you) isn't really going to convince me or anyone else, right? It's incredibly ironic, that you use every tactic you accuse others of, and keep trying to move goalposts, because you can't defend the claims you're standing on.

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u/berejser These Islands 23h ago

It is always very revealing when a person is more upset about a reaction to a crime than to the crime itself.

Where was that revealed? If we're going to have a conversation I'd at least like it to be grounded in reality and evidence. If you can't emerge far enough from out of the alt-right echochamber to do that then this conversation isn't going to be constructive.

I don't know and I don't care.

You don't care about organisations sheltering pedophiles?

Far fewer than the number of rapists the government imported.

I'd like to see some proof of that, because considering how many senior members of the EDL who counted Tommy Robinson among their friends ended up as convicted nonces I'm actually not certain that claim is correct.

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