r/europe • u/MacronLeNecromancer • 15h ago
Data Non-EU countries receive more funding from European Innovation Fund than 2/3 of EU countries combined
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u/floralvas 12h ago
It's because they are part of Horizont Europe as an associate non-EU member state.
Associated Countries are "non-EU countries that pay into the Horizon Europe budget to be treated equally to the EU Member States for the purposes of the programme. [Wikipedia]
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u/lledaso 11h ago
Frustrating seeing these comments. The answer is one simple search away but instead people immediately make dozens of derisive, outraged comments. And simply reading the source would also show that >80% of this money is investments, not grants.
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u/nicethingsahead Spain 🇪🇸 8h ago
I mean, that is just the average Reddit behaviour lol. It’s easier to be like “UK bad, Israel bad” than do some research.
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u/eloyend Żubrza 🌲🦬🌳 Knieja 13h ago
I understand Norway and UK - what Israel is even doing here, though?
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u/gasser 12h ago
They have also been an associate of these programmes since 1996.
Notably the EU issued a partial suspension of the involvement of Israeli based institutions in July in response to the situation in Gaza. You can read more about it through the above link.
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u/eloyend Żubrza 🌲🦬🌳 Knieja 12h ago
I'm confused. Is Israel participating in funding EU in a way Norway does? Or is that just EU funneling money one way?
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u/Stabile_Feldmaus Germany 9h ago
Israel has paid EUR 1.7 Billion since 2021 to participate in Horizon Zero Europe, the UK pays EUR 2.6 Billion per year for HZE and the copernicus space programme.
https://www.ftm.eu/newsletters/bureau-brussels-eu-funds-israel-defense-sector
https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2023/sep/comment-uk-has-joined-eus-horizon-science-funding-scheme-hard
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u/Xseros Sweden 12h ago
Its a program which non-EU members pay into to be treated like EU members and then get paid back. This is NOT support or aid. Its money investing in research and startups.
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u/UnPeuDAide 9h ago
Do you know why would anyone want to do that? Why would you give me money so that I give you money back?
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u/CommercialStyle1647 9h ago
Because they can now collaborate better with other European research institutions. Imagine Israel is trying to create a new medicine against cancer. It's now more easily possible to collaborate with researchers in Germany who are already working on it. You can collaborate with French researchers for the producing of the drug. And with researchers from the Netherlands you work together to test it. It basically allows for an more effective collaboration and sharing of knowledge to advance everyone.
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u/gasser 1h ago
It's not zero sum.
Investing in research, like education health etc, actually pays back more than it costs.
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u/UnPeuDAide 1h ago
Yes but the money is zero sum. eg Norway can invest for research in Norway without giving money to the EU so that EU funds research in Norway.
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u/gasser 1h ago
Except that it's not, these projects involve dozens of institutions across multiple counties, without a common framework Norway wouldn't have access to the expertise these other institutions bring so the money would not go as far.
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u/UnPeuDAide 1h ago
Yes, that is what the other answer said. But nothing in yours said anything about cooperation. It might just be a misunderstanding though, no hard feelings.
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u/gasser 12h ago
A quick Google suggests that also contribute financially to the programme like the UK and Norway.
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u/Confident_Pepper1023 13h ago
I could very well be wrong, but my guess is because they have innovative project proposals, and when funded they might be giving some rights to the investors as well, so it's like an investment?
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u/eloyend Żubrza 🌲🦬🌳 Knieja 13h ago
Would be nice if someone knowledgeable explained what's going on and if there are precautions taken against usage of the funds and funded tech in military applications.
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u/emergency_poncho European Union 11h ago
I work in the EU. Horizon Europe and other EU research and innovation programmes are 100% civil, in the sense that they do not find any military, defence or even dual use technologies. They're used for things like researching cures against diseases, fighting climate change, medical and materials sciences, etc.
There are different programs which fund defence and military research, but only EU member states can participate in these. The EU also provides far less funding for these, as defence is still primarily considered a national prerogative.
All participants (even non-EU) to these R&D programs need to pay into the common pot of funding. The participants agree how big they want the funding pot to be, and costs are shared equally (as a % of GDP typically, but there are different formulas used). Many programs include a basic minimum to pay in as well as optional programmes that individual countries can opt to fund, and how much. So for example for a programme funding space research, there could be an optional programmes to find launch vehicles, and any country who thinks this is worth investing in can put extra money specifically to be used for rockets.
Some funding programs have what is called a "geographic return" principle, meaning that if you invest say €100 into the pot, you are guaranteed to win about €100 worth of projects / contracts. This is fairer but the downside is that you sometimes get suboptimal results (the best project doesn't necessarily win). The vast majority of EU R&D programmes don't have this principle, meaning that all proposals are judged based on merit. As such, some countries with better science or research institutes naturally win more than they put in. Israel happens to punch way above its weight.
Hope that helps! I can answer more questions if needed.
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u/eloyend Żubrza 🌲🦬🌳 Knieja 10h ago
Thank you - i'll have to take your credentials for granted, as i can't be arsed to skim through thousands of pages that all EU programs inevitably produce.
My general question is: to what extent separation from military/dual-use is enforced?
Are research institutes (both as specific institutes aswell as the universities they may be part of) allowed to work on military or dual-use tech, when receiving funding from that program or during any sensible grace period after?
Are military personnel allowed to work on these programs?
Are researchers working on these programs allowed to work at the same time or during any sensible grace period on military or dual-use programs?
Are any/all of these safeguards actually enforced and validated to sufficient degree, or is largely declaration of recipient state taken for granted with token supervision only?
Are programs that are/can be employed by illegal settlement or counter-insurgent actions by Israel considered military or dual-use?
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u/mirrownis Schleswig-Holstein (Germany) 9h ago
Not OP, but I wrote a few proposals for Horizon (mostly comp-sci) for a public university and worked on some as well.
The idea for these projects is that the proposal doesn't just say "Am scientist, need funds". You need to have a clear plan of what you want to achieve, what kinda research is necessary to get there, and who will participate in the project. And, since this is the EU, you have to document everything, from ownership declarations of your organization to disclosing who you plan to share your work with. This is both before, during, and after the funding period.
I have yet to see (or hear of) any EU supervisor coming down to our lab and wanting to look around - as long as the documentation is formally correct and believable, noone will call it into question.
But regarding the specifics of military/dual-use/civilian research: Our rule-of-thumb when hashing out the details of a project was always to simply not work with military industrial partners. If we build some nice vehicle-networking framework with BMW, sure, it might be that Thales or Rheinmetall or whoever will find a use for it in tanks as well, but we know for sure that it's primarily gonna end up in BMWs production pipeline, so in the civilian market.
If there is a military application for something we build, those interested in that use-case will have to get the results of our research from the publications, like everyone else that's not involved in the project. From memory, a project becomes classified as dual-use when a military organization sits at the table and gets to give input and voice expectations... but in our day-to-day, that has just never been something worth looking up in detail, and the EU never followed up on our "100% civilian, no military uses" claims.
But it makes a lot of sense to me while typing this out: In my experience, civilian/public-funding researchers simply don't interact with military organizations when doing any kind of project. Instead, you have two almost completely air-gapped scientific communities, because they work very, very differently.
Militaries want their research to be secret by nature, whereas public institutions need their research to be published as a proof-of-work (since payroll bureaucrats are by definition NOT rocket engineers, they will trust the peer review process to tell them if the investment into an institute was good or not). Where military research often needs security clearances and non-disclosure assurances and all that, public research (read: a university) runs on hiring students for busy work, avoiding any kind of bureaucracy, and letting their staff work independently (as long as noone gets hurt). This makes the overlap between the two pretty small.
In short: If a research organisation does military technology, they are most likely not one that seeks funding from the EU, and the EU knows that, so the safeguards are rather lax. What happens after a project is done, and who uses the gained, publicly available knowledge afterwards is a different matter.
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u/Splash_Attack Ireland 3h ago
If we build some nice vehicle-networking framework with BMW, sure, it might be that Thales or Rheinmetall or whoever will find a use for it in tanks as well, but we know for sure that it's primarily gonna end up in BMWs production pipeline, so in the civilian market.
It's funny you use Thales as your example, because I worked on a Horizon 2020 project that was very much dual use technology and where Thales was our primary industry partner.
I think you've over-generalised a bit based on your own experience. I've also never heard of a Horizon project with a primarily defence use case, but dual use? Definitely, even when the defence application is stated explicitly and when defence companies are directly involved. The project just has to comply with the relevant EU and national guidelines on research on dual use technologies.
I think your picture of how universities interact with the defence sector is also a little off. In some fields (like mine - semiconductor security) people work with defence companies and governments all the time. There's no air gap, and militaries and similar fund research for publication all the time. The only difference is that they usually have a veto on publication, but I've rarely seen it exercised.
There are NDAs involved sometimes, but that's no different than with a lot of companies. Security clearance is not that big a deal, even for PhD students. It's mostly a bother for hiring (restrictions on nationality). Information is a bit more siloed but security researchers instinctively do that anyway, it's a career where a degree of paranoia is not uncommon.
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u/Jedibeeftrix 13h ago
why would this be necessary or good, when EUrope is furiously re-arming after taking a defence holiday for 30yrs?
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u/araujoms 🇧🇷🇵🇹🇦🇹🇩🇪🇪🇸 13h ago
Because the least we can do about a genocidal state is to not arm it.
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u/JuventAussie 12h ago
The Innovation fund supports projects that reduce carbon emissions.....it is for environmental innovation projects.
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u/Monterenbas 12h ago
Why not invest in the EU tho?
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u/Confident_Pepper1023 11h ago
They do, seems like ~600M goes to the three non-eu countries, and the remaining ~4.4B are allocated to the EU countries, out of the total ~5B.
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u/mellotjules 12h ago
There are also some screen enterprises in the EU that can propose some innovations with this and have received some funding.
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u/nikfra 11h ago edited 11h ago
Because since
19952000 they are an associate in the horizon program. Signed in 1995.They contribute financially like any other member to the program. You can find the agreement text with a simple Google search.
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u/eloyend Żubrza 🌲🦬🌳 Knieja 11h ago
They contribute financially like any other member to the program. You can find the agreement text with a simple Google search.
What are the contribution and receiving values?
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u/iesterdai Switzerland 6h ago
A quick search would give you the data: https://dashboard.tech.ec.europa.eu/qs_digit_dashboard_mt/public/extensions/RTD_BI_public_HE_Country_Profile/RTD_BI_public_HE_Country_Profile.html?Country=IL
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u/eloyend Żubrza 🌲🦬🌳 Knieja 6h ago
Thanks, it's interesting to browse, especially view all metrics: https://dashboard.tech.ec.europa.eu/qs_digit_dashboard_mt/public/sense/app/1213b8cd-3ebe-4730-b0f5-fa4e326df2e2/sheet/d23bba31-e385-4cc0-975e-a67059972142/state/analysis/select/Programme/HORIZON%20EUROPE/select/Country-Territory/Israel
Biggest participant seems to be Weizmann institute which has been reported as hit during Iran attacks earlier: https://sciencebusiness.net/news/international-news/weizmann-institute-missile-strikes-hits-eu-funded-research-projects
As the article mentions - sadly it'll set back some joint research.
And as a proof what of what i was talking about /u/mirrownis - Weizmann Institute does research for the military. https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1n3unvz/noneu_countries_receive_more_funding_from/nbh9rpj/
Last year, Weizmann struck a deal with the Israeli military contractor Elbit Systems to develop “groundbreaking bio-inspired materials for defence applications.”
Some Weizmann researchers do work on things like protecting drones from eavesdropping attacks, for example. But much of its focus is on health, medicine and biology.
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u/Oxygenisplantpoo Finland 13h ago
Israeli academia is highly connected, so I assume ventures that start at universities. Also military tech.
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u/Su_ButteredScone 12h ago
They're often inventing or working on very cool technology, not even military stuff. Medical, general tech which benefits countries who invest in it.
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u/eloyend Żubrza 🌲🦬🌳 Knieja 12h ago
There's plenty of countries working on very cool technology. Why i don't see any: Taiwan, South Korea, Japan, Switzerland or USA on the list? Switzerland would make much more sense, if it's anything EU related, since at least it's a part of EFTA. And Switzerland is not currently engaged in genocide with a government run a by a guy pushing for war to stay in office.
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u/PatochBateman 12h ago
You seem to know nothing about the Israeli tech scene. You should learn before commenting
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u/RedstoneEnjoyer Slovakia 10h ago
Buddy, Israel could be most developed country in the world - it changes nothing about the fact it is not in Europe and thus shouldn't be allocated such a massive share of European funds.
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u/Minute_Tomatillo9730 12h ago
None in the level of Israel.
According to Neil DeGrasse Tyson there are two natural borders you can see from space. One is North Korea and South Korea (South Korea have a lot more economic activity so a lot more lights). The is Israel and its neighbours, because it's much greener from their irrigation technology compared to the surrounding countries. If this tech was so easy, they would have already adopted it!
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u/eloyend Żubrza 🌲🦬🌳 Knieja 12h ago
I guess it's easier to have very advanced technology when you're being sponsored by both EU and USA.
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u/zapreon The Netherlands 11h ago edited 11h ago
Israel's strong start-up culture is much more tied to the role of the military, e.g. cyber units, and massive promotion from the Israeli government than a few hundred million in funding from the EU. In the grand scheme of things, a few hundred million isn't much.
And that is what Israel excels in - innovation, not buying European tech.
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u/eloyend Żubrza 🌲🦬🌳 Knieja 11h ago
So if it's tied to military, I don't think EU should participate in any sort of funding agreement - even if it's supposed to be balanced per saldo.
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u/zapreon The Netherlands 11h ago
So if it's tied to military
The companies don't necessarily create tech for the military. Moreover, the EIB of course decided which companies and for what tech they get funding.
However, Israel's start-up culture is fostered partially within the military by how it is set up. For example, some cyber units in the IDF form a very resilient path into big tech (like Nvidia) or start-ups
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u/Cute_Committee6151 10h ago
Or if you care about your people and not just about how to pull out as much money from the country as possible
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u/eloyend Żubrza 🌲🦬🌳 Knieja 10h ago
Dunno if it's about care, i'm sure there are billions flowing in from richest countries though.
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u/Cute_Committee6151 10h ago
The same way as billions are flowing into all Eastern European countries
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u/eloyend Żubrza 🌲🦬🌳 Knieja 10h ago
That are actually part of EU, provide massive benefits to other member states through shared market and don't engage into genocide. Just a slight distinction.
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u/Cute_Committee6151 10h ago
So then they should try to build up their R&D so EU can fund their projects.
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u/zapreon The Netherlands 11h ago edited 11h ago
In terms of start-ups, Israel performs as one of the best countries in the world. Relatively far more unicorns than any European country, highest R&D spend as percentage of GDP in the world, massive infrastructure in place to promote innovation and start-ups.
The EU has close ties to Israel and also gets to benefit from funding Israeli innovation that aligns with its interests.
There are only few countries that are similar in terms of their level of innovation and start-ups, primarily the US, and they have got massive funding on their own.
There is a reason why e.g. Intel, Nvidia, and many other prominent companies have very large research centers (with large expansion plans like Nvidia) in Israel instead of random European countries.
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u/eloyend Żubrza 🌲🦬🌳 Knieja 10h ago edited 8h ago
There is a reason why e.g. Intel, Nvidia, and many other prominent companies have very large research centers (with large expansion plans like Nvidia) in Israel instead of random European countries.
Yes, that reason is: USA. Also mentioning Intel in same breath as nVidia is (sadly) laughable.
Edit: u/Timey16 can't even reply to people that replied to me, because sunshine above blocked me.
No, we most likely would have all of these - either invented by someone else or equivalent. These are not kind of inventions done on a spur of a brilliant mind in a basement, but products of monotonous research, trial and error.
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u/zapreon The Netherlands 10h ago
Yes, that reason is: USA.
So the US objectively does not sponsor these companies to set up research centers in Israel and in fact does give tax incentives to do so in the US.
How come this is because of the US? Do you have any evidence, or is that yet again pure speculation?
The simple good argument is that these companies can simply appreciate the extremely strong start-up culture in Israel. It is a country that especially per Capita obliterated any EU country or the UK in e.g. unicorns. That is not even up for debate, it is a simple fact
Also mentioning Intel in same breath as nVidia is (sadly) laughable.
It doesn't matter. What matters is that you won't see these companies rushing to set up massive research centers in Italy, but do so in Israel, along with massive investment in Israeli start-ups.
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u/eloyend Żubrza 🌲🦬🌳 Knieja 10h ago edited 6h ago
US for decades has supported Israel through investments, direct military assistance, political pressure and direct money grants.
Intel is a pretty much bankrupt company, in more way than one. It's not a good poster for Israel researchers - it'd be 20~ years ago (afaik it was Israeli center that pushed for Core architecture continuing Pentium III legacy and allowed them to ditch Pentium 4 dead end), but now i'm sure there are much better examples.
edit: since sunshine above blocked me i can't respond to /u/Mhabi2502 below
I'm very fine with existence of each and every country in the world and all ethnic and cultural groups that will it have their distinct or collective state representation. What i'm not okay with, are regimes engaged in genocide. I'm glad there are people in Israel that are also not okay with that. And i spit in the face of all dregs that try to whitewash genocide covering behind "he just hates xyz". Murdering innocent people is bad, persecuting civilians is bad, genocide is bad. Rot in hell, you pos.
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u/zapreon The Netherlands 9h ago edited 9h ago
US for decades has supported Israel through investments, direct military assistance, political pressure and direct money grants.
So nothing here that would prove that giant corporates like Nvidia or Intel in 2025 prioritize investment in Israel above many other places.
For example, nothing of the military aid supports this. As for investments, that's just part and parcel of having sound economic relations.
The biggest source of capital for all investments is from the US. Let's thank economic development in all of Europe on the US if having good economic relations is the standard for this
It's not a good poster for Israel researchers -
You know what is an even worse poster? Not getting this investment by giant corporates like Intel
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u/Mhabi2502 Bavaria (Germany) 9h ago
Can't you see this guy's undisputed hate towards Israel? Read his other comments mate, save your time
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u/Timey16 Saxony (Germany) 8h ago
Without Israeli innovations in IT you wouldn't even be on Reddit. Their innovations are core parts of the modern computer infrastructure...
like the microchip with the Intel 8808 which was a MASSIVE leap in computer manufacturing and made PCs even possible to begin with.
Or the network firewall... there was literally ZERO network security prior.
Or the USB thumb drive.
Like, if someone wanted to do a complete boycott of things Israel has ever been involved with, then you have to effectively become Amish and reject nearly all modern technology.
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u/Otsde-St-9929 12h ago
Israel is very good at research. It is a net good for humanity to pump research money there. Science pay is so low there
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u/Alarichos 9h ago
Everyone can be "good at research" with enough money and given time for their population to be educated, israel is no some kind of exception
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u/Otsde-St-9929 8h ago
Funds will get a higher return when there is a good bedrock. There is huge variation in Europe in research outcomes.
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u/doxxingyourself Denmark 13h ago
They’re in the song thing so we gotta give them FOUR HUNDRED MILLION FUCKING EUROES. It’s the rules.
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u/AdmRL_ United Kingdom 12h ago
Corruption and/or massive pro-israel lobbying, presumably.
EU's description of the fund:
The Innovation Fund is one of the world’s largest funding programmes for the deployment of innovative net-zero and low-carbon technologies. Established by Article 10a (8) of Directive 2003/87/EC to support innovation across all EEA Member States, it is one of the key tools of the European Green Deal Industrial Plan.
Financed by revenues from auctioning allowances from the European Union Emissions Trading System (EU ETS) and with an estimated revenue of approximately €40 billion between 2020 and 2030, the Innovation Fund aims to help businesses invest in clean energy and bring technologies to market that can decarbonise European industry, while fostering its competitiveness.
So literally no reason whatsoever for Israel to be involved. They aren't an EEA member, they aren't European and they have little involvement in EU industry that justifies their involvement over say, Turkey, or the US.
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u/eloyend Żubrza 🌲🦬🌳 Knieja 12h ago
Switzerland. I'm at loss why there's no Switzerland there at all.
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u/Sperrel Portugal 11h ago
Due to a referendum on restricting free circulation and other negative action against EU citizens the Swiss lost their right to participate in a number of EU initiatives.
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u/Yae_Ko Europe 12h ago edited 11h ago
because, unlike Israel, switzerland is not an EEA member.
EDIT: Guys... sarcasm, in response to this sentence from above:
So literally no reason whatsoever for Israel to be involved.
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u/eloyend Żubrza 🌲🦬🌳 Knieja 12h ago
because, unlike Israel, switzerland is not an EEA member.
Huh? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Economic_Area#Ratification_of_the_EEA_Agreement I can't see Israel there.
Switzerland is a part of EFTA though.
And is funding EU programs through i.e. https://www.europa.eda.admin.ch/en/swiss-contribution-to-selected-eu-member-states
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u/RijnBrugge 11h ago
Bro Israel pays its way into the program in the same exact way yours does. Take a chill pill.
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u/TrueRignak France 12h ago
We might also note that the Likoud also entered the European Parlement as a observer member of Le Pen and Orban's party. It was the first time ever for a foreign country to have an observer member, and of course it comes from the europhobic party.
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u/TheMasterOfSas Apulia 7h ago
They are an outpost of Western colonialism and keep the middle east in check, why would the EU NOT give them money?
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u/RedstoneEnjoyer Slovakia 10h ago
Because EU is vassal of USA and Israel is American base. That is why.
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u/Longjumping-Boot1886 12h ago
You woudn't believe, but Israel is also near Cyprus, what in EU. Like UK near France.
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u/eloyend Żubrza 🌲🦬🌳 Knieja 12h ago
I know it's hard to grasp, but both Cyprus and France are in EU, and UK used to. You know who's not, never was and probably not going to be?
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u/urarthur 12h ago
so is Lebanon and egypt and lots of other countries.
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u/Longjumping-Boot1886 12h ago
yep, you got that idea.
Only thats why we have news from them in media, thats why we have contacts and things like that. Because they are near.
And around 0 news about another one war in Africa.
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u/LTFGamut The Netherlands 13h ago
Norway and UK getting EU fundings is ridiculous as wel
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u/printzonic Northern Jutland, Denmark, EU. 13h ago
Norway is not ridiculous. They pay their dues to the EU and implement our rules. They just don't have any voting rights.
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u/ConsciousStop 13h ago edited 13h ago
The UK is on that list because it's an associate member of Horizon Europe and contributes €2.4 billion annually into it.
Source: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_23_6327
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u/Mr06506 12h ago
So this post is trying to make this sound controversial whereas in reality the UK contributes 30x more than it gets back via this specific fund?
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u/IrishMilo 2h ago
Yes, and if horizon Europe was solely about gaining funding then it would be a dud deal but there are a lot of other advantages brought by the program that benefit the UK, either through indirect financial returns, like access to markets, and non financial returns like steering development to address issues more pertinent to UK environment.
If everything was just about money then it would be really easy calculate the ROI upfront and then decided to opt out.
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u/LittleFairyOfDeath Switzerland 12h ago
The title is very confusing. At least make it more clear because what you say isn’t obvious in the graph itself
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u/CommercialStyle1647 9h ago
It also say with no word that these countries also pay into the program. Smells like someone is trying to stir shit up and push an EU bad with money agenda
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u/Mhabi2502 Bavaria (Germany) 8h ago
A lot of people here seem to be missing how Horizon Europe actually works.
This isn’t the EU handing out free cash to Israel (or any other non-EU country). Horizon is an open research & innovation programme where countries can associate if they pay in. Israel, Norway, the UK, Iceland, Turkey, etc. all pay hundreds of millions to get access. The money is then distributed based on competitive grants and peer-reviewed by international experts. Whoever has the strongest proposals wins.
So yes, Israel shows up high on this chart because their universities and companies are very strong in fields like AI, quantum tech, cybersecurity, and medicine. But they’re not “taking” EU taxpayer money — they literally pay to participate in the programme. And the EU benefits too, as European researchers cooperate with Israeli partners, which makes projects more competitive and innovative.
Also, Horizon funds cannot be used for weapons research. By law, military projects are excluded. What’s funded are civilian science and innovation projects — though some research (like cybersecurity or robotics) can have dual-use applications later, which is also true for any EU country’s projects.
TLDR: stop with the hatred and the rage-bait. Open a new tab and fact-check by yourself.
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u/kerrybom 12h ago
Better labs get more funding because investors see more potential. It works the same on an international level as well.
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u/CubeOfDestiny Poland 13h ago
Norway and uk makes sense i guess, but israel? and so much? this is a travesty
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u/Past-Present223 12h ago
Cant you see this post in this format is designed to get exactly that response? It provides 0 context so we can all get outraged about the next thing.
Some one else posted Israels funding is actually suspended over Gaza. I dont know if that true but before getting baited into calling things. travesties, look it up and find some context.
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u/vampyr01 8h ago
There is no logical sense for Israel to be on that list, regardless. It makes absolutely zero sense. Israel shouldn't be involved in anything EU at all.
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u/Past-Present223 8h ago
Ofcourse other countries are involved with the EU. We dont live on an island.
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u/cheezus171 Poland 11h ago
They contribute their own money to programs that they then capitalise from. Those aren't handouts, putting it simply - in this case the more you put in the more will go back to you.
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u/4uk4ata 13h ago
Israel has a very well-developed research sector, but one has to put their money where their mouth is.
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u/beewoopwoop 13h ago
with that money any small EU country could develop amazing research facilities or larger EU country improve theirs
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u/Cute_Committee6151 10h ago
Dude, every fucking small country in the EU gets this money.
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u/kerrybom 12h ago
Communism also followed the logic of "give more resources to underperforming factories, they'll catch up" - they didn't. It bankrupted the system. Moral of the story: invest in those who actually show potential, and they will actually deliver on the investment.
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u/MartinBP Bulgaria 9h ago
Yeah man sure, that's definitely how it works. Just look at the booming start-up scene in the Balkans with all that foreign funding going in! /s
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u/Medical-Committee-75 13h ago
These missiles are expensive, hospitals, journalists and aid workers don't blow up themselves.
It's kind of ironic that the hospitals are funded by EU money as well.
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u/Apprehensive-Adagio2 11h ago edited 11h ago
Do you know how many israelis died as a result of the I/P conflict between 2008 and october 7th 2023? In all those 15 years?
That’s 24 per year. Compared to roughly 350 per year that died by road fatalities.
12 000 israelis died in 2022 by cancer
Palestinians in general are negligeble as a cause of death in israel.
Do you know how many palestinians died as a result of the conflict, again between 2008 and october 7th 2023? 7340. That’s almost a factor of 20. for every israeli death in the conflict, 20 palestinians died as a result. And that’s not even factoring everything that came from october 7th, where 50 000 palestinians have died so far, where more than 80% have been civillians.
Idk why you israel shills decide that this is the fight you want to pick, israel is definitively the more brutal and militaristic side which does not care for human life. Everyone loves to point out the "hamas rockets ☝️🤓" but conveniently ignore the fact that hamas rockets don’t actually kill that many people, while israeli rockets on the other hand, kill many many many more people. 20x as many people before october 7th, now nearer to 50x. If your position is that "killing is bad", you should be against both sides killing each other. But there’s one side you should definitively be sterner towards as they kill much much more, and that side is israel.
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u/Apprehensive-Adagio2 10h ago
The future of palestine is brighter than ever
50 000 dead and gaza in utter ruins
That’s some inane 1984 level double think.
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u/MartinBP Bulgaria 9h ago
Why would it be an outrage? We get high-quality scientific research and technological advancements from it. What did we get from the billions sunk into Hungary or Belgium? (both bigger overall beneficiaries than Bulgaria btw)
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u/Dietmeister The Netherlands 11h ago
Who says the EU gets nothing back for it? This is not development aid. What would the EU have to help Norway with?
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u/Terrible-Duck4953 India 13h ago
Why does the UK get so less funding than Israel.
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u/shatureg 13h ago
Forget about the UK. Why do actual EU countries get so much less?!
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u/gookman European Union 11h ago
As painful as it sounds it's because they don't innovate or they do on very small scales. And that as /u/deceased_parrot said is because of corrupt politicians that do not try to foster a culture of innovation or try to improve the education in these countries.
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u/MartinBP Bulgaria 9h ago
Because you actually need an innovative economy to create projects worth funding. In Bulgaria we can't even get the post offices to accept card payments and universities still need you to go apply in person. Why would we be getting that money? So another crook can build a villa under the guise of an "eco-house concept" because he slapped a solar panel on top?
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u/s7oev 1h ago edited 1h ago
Stop with the self-degrading bullshit, there's plenty of innovation happening in Bulgaria, quick example - one of world's best AI institutes (INSAIT) is in Sofia, funded by Google and Amazon, and co-organized by Sofia University with ETH Zurich and EPFL - 2 of the best schools for computer science in the world.
In fact in this very graph, you can see we are doing quite well with the received funding for a country of our size. We are also the best country in this graph from Eastern Europe.
Don't get me wrong, we can (and should) do better, but self degradation will not help us improve even further.
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u/deceased_parrot Croatia 12h ago
Why do actual EU countries get so much less?!
Because the local politicians can't steal it with impunity so they don't bother with it. Ditto with other EU funds.
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u/CaptainChaos74 The Netherlands 6h ago
I had no idea we give Israel so much money. We're basically funding the holocaust against the Palestinians. Can we stop, please? 😢
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u/Odd-Gain-8706 12h ago
Why the hell Israel is receiving any funding from EU? They should be sanctioned for committing genocide in Gaza.
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u/MintCathexis 10h ago
Even if people are so callous as to not care about Gazans or Palestinians in general, Israel routinely targets European journalists in West Bank. Israel, in fact, just targetted DW journalists today. This alone should disqualify Israel from getting a single cent of EU money, let alone committing a genocide.
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u/vampyr01 8h ago
Plus, even if you support Israel's genocide - they shouldn't be involved in ANY EU-program at all. It just makes no sense for them to be.
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u/monkeAlvin Västra Götaland 4h ago
Israel has nothing to do there, they do not deserve any money...
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u/fikabonds 1h ago
Most of you here should rrad about what this actually is…
It’s obvious what OP is trying do here….
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u/Other_Class1906 12h ago
since it says "cumulative" i would assume that it has to do with for how long these countries have cooperated with the EU...
Most of those countries probably haven't done much until 1990. Many don't have a large industry to pull big and expensive projects - you don't plan projects into a vacuum and don't give money to people with little experience.
And some countries are just small, so that their funding per capita or per GDP may still be somewhat larger than it appears here...
Israel likely did something with surveillance, weapons or maybe even green investment and the UK probably didn't want to adhere to EU rules and chose to fund things themselves... but that's just a wild guess...
A progression over the years would certainly be more interesting and paint a clearer picture, instead of this alarmism here...,
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u/MartinBP Bulgaria 9h ago
This money in particular doesn't go to military projects. Israel has a very developed IT sector, you're probably using Israeli tech in your phone right now. Also energy and agricultural infrastructure, considering they had to basically terraform the area around Tel Aviv to be habitable.
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u/Sky-is-here Andalusia (Spain) 11h ago
Norway is the only one that should be there, as practically a member of the eu anyways. But Israel receiving so much makes me want to puke. Disgusting world we live in
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u/H2Nut 13h ago
This is Antisemitism! Stop it! Nobody raises a word about them. OK?
/S
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u/Ilkin0115 Azerbaijan 12h ago
Can we get some money as well then? Although, don’t give it to the current government.
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u/Beyllionaire 7h ago
Those 3 countries are rich countries so why tf do they need money from the EU????
I'd rather see that money go to poor countries inside and outside the EU.
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u/Gruffleson Norway 4h ago
OP didn't bother to find out how much the different countries put in in the same thing. I don't have it either, but it's the other part of the picture.
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u/MrNixxxoN 6h ago
EU needs to facilitate innovation more. And enterpreneurship too.
Taxes are too high.
I mean how many top innovations we've made in the last 10 years? All I see is the yanks and the chinese creating new stuff all the time and in comparison we do almost nothing.
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u/Filias9 Czech Republic 12h ago
I presume because these are member of Lira. And Israel have more interesting projects then Romania. https://www.eaic.eu/member-locations.html
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u/CertainMiddle2382 12h ago
Those amounts are tiny btw. So it doesn’t matter much.
You cannot run a medium size university on 800millions a year.
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u/djorndeman 11h ago
Medium universities typically cost €300M–€800M per year. This is a European average. It is, of course, even cheaper within emerging economies.
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u/vampyr01 8h ago
That's always the argument when discussing special funds Israel receives from the west. It's always 'oh the amount is so small anyways' or some other ridiculous excuse.
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u/Grouchy_Fan_2236 1h ago
Not if university administrators demand 100.000 €+ salaries and lavish bonuses. If we'd cut the non-academic staff, simplify procedures for research grants and reduce luxury spending to bare minimum an average university could function with half it's current budget.
I'm not sure the bloat in European universities is better than in the US. It's just that people don't notice as Europeans don't tend to directly pay for their education. However academic staff notice that they receive only a fraction of these grants.
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u/MacronLeNecromancer 15h ago
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u/hmtk1976 Belgium 12h ago
You might want to give some decent information on what this means rather than a screenshot and a link to a page with too much text. But it´s typical for this sub to make ragebait posts like this and then see people foaming at the mouth.
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u/BenderRodriguez14 Ireland 12h ago edited 10h ago
Come on now folks! That genocide is not going to fund itself, now is it?
Edit: Downvote away, and enjoy the dead children you're supporting the murder of. It's expected at this point, sure they're only little brown Arabs. It's not like they're actual human beings or anything.
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u/ComprehensiveLaw1012 9h ago
lol crash out.
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u/BenderRodriguez14 Ireland 9h ago
Nah, just not a fan of funding genocide. As much as that apparently disgusts a lot more Europeans than one would expect.
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u/ComprehensiveLaw1012 9h ago
You should probably take a second to understand what the EIF is and how it works: https://www.catf.us/2023/12/why-the-eu-innovation-fund-matters-for-net-zero-technology-funding/
Or keep crashing out as you are. Up to you.
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u/BenderRodriguez14 Ireland 9h ago
Well ahead of you there.
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-10-2025-000180_EN.html
Since 7 October 2024, the EU has continued to allocate funds to Israeli defence companies through its Horizon Europe programme. This includes Israel Aerospace Industries, Israel’s largest aerospace and defence company, which, since 7 October, has received funds for some of its dual-use projects[3].
This is despite the fact that Horizon Europe funding must comply with human rights standards, international law and EU treaties, which prohibit the funding of ‘expenses arising from operations with military or defence implications’.
We know that programmes funded by the EU’s Horizon Europe programme prior to 7 October are now actively being used in Israel’s military activities in Gaza. This includes the Skylord drone programme, which is now being used by the Israel Defense Forces in its missions in Gaza[4].
But go ahead and keep pretending that's not the case. Sure you will anyway.
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u/Nachooolo Galicia (Spain) 11h ago
Another reason why we can pressure Israel into a cease-fire if some member countries got their shit together.
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u/TeaBoy24 9h ago
Norway is part of the EEA and ETS(which is where these funds come from) and they are fully eligible.
The UK has certain specific exceptions post Brexit, as a lot is located in the UK. So it's quite specific in what it gets and why. It's not a full member.
Israel makes little to no sense here.
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u/Apprehensive-Adagio2 11h ago
Why israel is the 5th biggest recipient, such a small country with such a abhorrent moral character? Norway and UK i can understand, we’re not quite as bad, are distinctly aligned with europe and our ethical values.
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u/garageindego UK & Eire 13h ago
For context of the UK… it does not contribute money to the European Innovation Fund because it is not a member of the EU, but rather a direct participant in the Horizon Europe program….where it will contribute around €2.43 billion per year on average to the EU budget for its participation (link)