r/europe 2d ago

Data Non-EU countries receive more funding from European Innovation Fund than 2/3 of EU countries combined

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2.1k Upvotes

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175

u/CubeOfDestiny Poland 2d ago

Norway and uk makes sense i guess, but israel? and so much? this is a travesty

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u/Past-Present223 2d ago

Cant you see this post in this format is designed to get exactly that response? It provides 0 context so we can all get outraged about the next thing.

Some one else posted Israels funding is actually suspended over Gaza. I dont know if that true but before  getting baited into calling things. travesties, look it up and find some context.

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u/vampyr01 1d ago

There is no logical sense for Israel to be on that list, regardless. It makes absolutely zero sense. Israel shouldn't be involved in anything EU at all.

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u/Past-Present223 1d ago

Ofcourse other countries are involved with the EU. We dont live on an island. 

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u/vampyr01 1d ago

What the fuck? I'm talking about EU programs for EU. It literally says on their website:

What is being funded and how?

The Innovation Fund focuses on highly innovative technologies and flagship projects within Europe that can bring about significant emission reductions. It is about sharing the risk with project promoters and putting the spotlight on first-of-a-kind, highly innovative projects.

Since you're a geographical expert; is Israel within Europe?

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u/Past-Present223 1d ago

European programs are often open to other countries to benefit collaboration. 

Often those countries pay for the priviledge one way or another.

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u/vampyr01 1d ago

But I'm talking about THIS fucking program - the one we're literally discussing. It says

The Innovation Fund focuses on highly innovative technologies and flagship projects within Europe that can bring about significant emission reductions

So why the fuck is Israel around the top of the list?

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u/Past-Present223 1d ago

Calm down my dude it is not good to be that outraged all the time. 

You are reading a snippet on their website. You can always see if you can send them a message that you believe that phrasing doesnt accurately represent the program.

Israel probably negotiated with the EU and both parties saw value in them joining. I dont know what the terms of the agreement with Israel were. That is some key missing information that we'd need to evaluate if this is a good deal or not. But say if they agreed to pay 1 billion contribution to participate and then have a payout of 500 million. That would be a pretty good deal for us? 

An other example is SAFE (security action for europe) program about weapons procuremen. Here Canada has joined. That is really advantagous for us because Canada has a lot of important raw materials that are used in weapons production. This way our companies get access to their raw materials and their companies can bid on our governments' contracts.

You will find a lot of EU programs where other countries have negotiated access because its valuable to them.  Norway is not an EU member but they pay billions into the EU budget for access to the European Economic Area.

In the end end Europe is just a word refering to the geographic area where we live. Diplomacy and relations between countries are more complex and fuzzy. Why would we limit ourselves to some good agreements with other countries because of the word 'Europe'.

Anyway hope you get some out of this. I put some effort into these words. If not, all good and I wish you the best.

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u/vampyr01 1d ago

You're completely missing the point, and it's most certainly intentional.

You are basically giving a fluff answer as if you are an actual EU spokesperson, while I'm coming at it from the POV of a European citizen. The EU obviously has endless initiatives that include nations from around the world, but that has nothing to do with the case we're discussing here, of Israel being the single non-European nation on a list of countries receiving funding for innovation development. Why does the EU have an innovation fund that they pay out to nations not in Europe? As I already pointed out, the fund describes itself as one aimed specifically for innovation within Europe.

And out of all non-European nations, why is Israel the one and only on the list? It's completely absurd that they opened up for ONE external nation, and that was Israel.

At the end of the day, your attitude is basically that words don't matter, rules don't matter, nothing matters; if the people in charge decide to present one thing, and then do something else, then that's completely fine, because of fuzzy and whatnot.

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u/Past-Present223 22h ago

What rule? What law? That if a program has Europe in the name it cant have other participants outside of Europe?  It didnt open for one external particupant. Norway and UK are in there too. Did you know Cyprus is in asia and is a member of the EU?

Other people in this thread have already commented that this program doesnt just fund innovation. All partipants pay into it and then this funds supports innovation.

Perhaps other countries didnt want to join or maybe EU didnt think they could offer benefit. Idk.

I am exactly getting the point. You are a European citizen and you see big number and without any knowledge about whats going on (do you even know what programs are supported or on what conditions Israel joined) are thinking they must be stealing from me.  If they get X then I dont get X. Reflectively you get baited into outrage.  Here I am just an average EU citizen trying to explain we live in a more complex society and world. 

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u/cheezus171 Poland 2d ago

They contribute their own money to programs that they then capitalise from. Those aren't handouts, putting it simply - in this case the more you put in the more will go back to you.

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u/4uk4ata 2d ago

Israel has a very well-developed research sector, but one has to put their money where their mouth is.

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u/beewoopwoop 2d ago

with that money any small EU country could develop amazing research facilities or larger EU country improve theirs

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u/dpwtr 2d ago

Oh wow it’s really that easy?

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u/KAMATISRED 2d ago

Yes, it really is that simple. The US also pours in billions every year.

An ethnostate propped up from abroad. Hm… where have I seen that before?

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u/beewoopwoop 1d ago

definitely easier than funding countries outside EU with some bad press around them

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u/Cute_Committee6151 1d ago

Dude, every fucking small country in the EU gets this money.

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u/beewoopwoop 1d ago

didn't notice in the chart every small EU country getting nearly 400 million euro each, but maybe I missed something

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u/Cute_Committee6151 1d ago

They would if they had the same R&D projects going. Israel doesn't get the money from thin air.

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u/kerrybom 2d ago

Communism also followed the logic of "give more resources to underperforming factories, they'll catch up" - they didn't. It bankrupted the system. Moral of the story: invest in those who actually show potential, and they will actually deliver on the investment.

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u/MartinBP Bulgaria 1d ago

Yeah man sure, that's definitely how it works. Just look at the booming start-up scene in the Balkans with all that foreign funding going in! /s

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u/4uk4ata 2d ago

In about a decade if used well, yes. 

0

u/vampyr01 1d ago

Not true - they don't have access to all the bodies Israel does.

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u/beewoopwoop 1d ago

yeah, access to "bodies" is much better there

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u/Medical-Committee-75 2d ago

These missiles are expensive, hospitals, journalists and aid workers don't blow up themselves.

It's kind of ironic that the hospitals are funded by EU money as well.

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

[deleted]

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u/Apprehensive-Adagio2 2d ago edited 2d ago

Do you know how many israelis died as a result of the I/P conflict between 2008 and october 7th 2023? In all those 15 years?

371

That’s 24 per year. Compared to roughly 350 per year that died by road fatalities.

12 000 israelis died in 2022 by cancer

Palestinians in general are negligeble as a cause of death in israel.

Do you know how many palestinians died as a result of the conflict, again between 2008 and october 7th 2023? 7340. That’s almost a factor of 20. for every israeli death in the conflict, 20 palestinians died as a result. And that’s not even factoring everything that came from october 7th, where 50 000 palestinians have died so far, where more than 80% have been civillians.

Idk why you israel shills decide that this is the fight you want to pick, israel is definitively the more brutal and militaristic side which does not care for human life. Everyone loves to point out the "hamas rockets ☝️🤓" but conveniently ignore the fact that hamas rockets don’t actually kill that many people, while israeli rockets on the other hand, kill many many many more people. 20x as many people before october 7th, now nearer to 50x. If your position is that "killing is bad", you should be against both sides killing each other. But there’s one side you should definitively be sterner towards as they kill much much more, and that side is israel.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

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u/Apprehensive-Adagio2 1d ago

The future of palestine is brighter than ever

50 000 dead and gaza in utter ruins

That’s some inane 1984 level double think.

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u/brianbandondy23 2d ago edited 1d ago

Bad Hasbara bot.

Edit: it's been deleted, good bot.

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u/Medical-Committee-75 2d ago

I thought Israel financed those? You appear to be misinformed. 

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u/MartinBP Bulgaria 1d ago

Why would it be an outrage? We get high-quality scientific research and technological advancements from it. What did we get from the billions sunk into Hungary or Belgium? (both bigger overall beneficiaries than Bulgaria btw)

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u/Dietmeister The Netherlands 2d ago

Who says the EU gets nothing back for it? This is not development aid. What would the EU have to help Norway with?

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u/solwaj Cracow, PL 2d ago

that would be because we are slaves