r/europe • u/Misztral Corsica (France) • 1d ago

Isrаеli military targets DW team in West Bаnk

https://corporate.dw.com/en/israeli-military-targets-dw-team-in-west-bank-incident-captured-on-video/a-73809709
1.6k Upvotes

91% Upvoted

270 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

3

u/tablakapatarei 1d ago

Tell me which means does Israel have to fight against Hamas then? You have been reading too much Hamas propaganda...

6

u/unlearned2 1d ago

Because you believe there are no innocents in Gaza, which is a canard/Big Lie.

This will have long-term consequences for Israel, look how Serbia ended up isolated, it lost Kosovo, is verging in civil war, has a mafia problem, suffers from large-scale emigration etc etc. You will rather end up an outcast like them than proceed more like Croatia or Slovenia. And Trump is close to Erdogan, so will have your hands full with fending off Turkish vasselage too. Otherwise you will be facing a Liberal US president. Just don't come crying to Europe in three years, at which point we might be forced to commit to Turkey and buy TAI-Kaan as our eastern members will be under threat

1

u/danield1302 1d ago

Yeah...what consequences did the US exactly have for the Iraq and Afghanistan wars? Or... literally anything? Once Israel is done someone will take the fall (probably Netanyahu, maybe someone else) and in a few years everything is forgotten. Wars are forgotten real quick once they end.

1

u/unlearned2 1d ago edited 1d ago

Israel is tiny compared to the US though, and has a dubious ability to maintain air superiority over Turkey in the 2030s. This 'war' has very little resemblance to Israel's previous ones in terms of the ratio of fighting-age male casualties to other casualties inflicted.

It is completely unlike during the Lebanese civil war (wasn't some US political expert breathless over a supposed 30:1 combatant:civilian casualty ratio at the time) or the Yom Kippur War.

It is true that justice/retribution come in fits and starts, for example Serbia was able to inflict an extraordinary death toll on interned Germans in the late 1940s without consequence, similar to Russia vs Chechens in the late 90s, whereas the reaction to Serb+Russian operations in Bosnia/Kosovo and Ukraine was harsh. If you want to play that game you obviously need to be able to read the room of others' opinion on your actions.

Maybe you are overestimating the stability of Israel's most reliable backer, Evangelical Christians, in US politics. US is autocratizing fast, so (even if the most radical/pro-Israel evangelical movements have been growing) Trump may not need them forever. What if they are the main factor which would keep him siding with Israel over Turkey.

If Trump decided not to take sides with Israel vs Turkey in the 2030s, I think Israel's path would be like Serbia, being eclipsed by an opponent with a fundamentally stronger/more valuable aviation industry, wider arms industry, nominal GDP, GDP (PPP), naval tonnage, tonnage of modern armoured vehicles, manpower etc.

You can't rule out that Trump will agree to Turkey receiving the F-35 jet (maybe if they agree to only use it over the Med and their southern border, with the S-400 systems kept in Ankara/north of Ankara or something like that) or that Turkey will want nuclear weapons once it has a stealth jet.

The above military/geopolitics stuff may become moot unless the UTJ party can be brought back into Netenjahu's coalition - otherwise it's difficult to see how it can survive many more months. I have a feeling Netenjahu and others will end up in prison after losing power because they have made an enemy of the courts, and the next PM will seek to close the chapter on the war.

1

u/danield1302 1d ago

It's less that countries are being pro-Israel, they just want Israel to keep it's neighbours in check. The ME countries are mostly enemies of the west but as long as they focus on Israel they leave us alone. It's just a big proxy war that has been going on for decades. It's also a nice military outpost. The US doesn't have to side with anyone, Turkey's government doesn't really care about Palestinians, they just need to do some lip service to appease the public. Just like some western leaders have been doing. It's all hot air in the end with nothing behind it.

1

u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

1

u/danield1302 1d ago

Mostly Iran and it's proxies. Who are active in Lebanon and Yemen and Israel is fighting. So yeah basically every country Israel has fought in the past year.

1

u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

0

u/danield1302 1d ago

Again- ofc they're not threat to us right now. They're using all their men and firepower to fight Israel. And...not doing very well. We still need to keep a close eye on the whole region. There's lots of countries that could become a threat if stabilised (and a different leadership). Like Syria, Iraq etc.

1

u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

→ More replies (0)

5

u/Misztral Corsica (France) 1d ago

Wow, you are not even denying that Israel murdered 50,000 children, you are asking me “how else should they deal with Hamas”

0

u/[deleted] 1d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/Misztral Corsica (France) 1d ago

Genocide.

1

u/tablakapatarei 1d ago

Indeed, Hamas is genocidal and Israel has every right to eradicate it.

3

u/Brilliant-Smile-8154 1d ago

Complete nonsense, nobody is buying this. At least 83% of Palestinians killed in Gaza are civilians according to Israel. That's not a war on Hamas, it's a war on all Gazans. A genocide.

1

u/tablakapatarei 1d ago

Basic international humanitarian law.

At least 83% of Palestinians killed in Gaza are civilians according to Israel.

Indeed, because Hamas has put them in a dangerous position.

2

u/Brilliant-Smile-8154 1d ago

There's not a shred of evidence to support this, it's an obvious lie.

1

u/tablakapatarei 1d ago

Wait, what? There is not a shred of evidence that Hamas has put its military infrastructure near Palestinian civilians?

2

u/Brilliant-Smile-8154 1d ago

Gaza has been flattened, dipshit. All of it. There were at most 40,000 fighters in Gaza before the Israeli invasion. So no, there's not a shred of evidence that the IDF engages military targets, except incidentally when they obstruct the systematic destruction of everything that can sustain human life in Gaza.

1

u/tablakapatarei 1d ago edited 1d ago

Flattened doesn't mean that Hamas doesn't have military infrastructure. Oh and, "dipshit" to you as well.

Edit: u/Brilliant-Smile-8154:

It served a military purpose as a lot of Hamas military infrastructure has been destroyed. But you know what's crazy, Hamas can actually move their military infrastructure, who would have thunk, right??

1

u/Brilliant-Smile-8154 1d ago

So you are agreeing with me that flattening Gaza served no military purpose, dipshit. Maybe there's some hope for you left.