r/europe • u/Abject-Pick-6472 • 1d ago
Finland will remove swastikas from its air force flags to avoid 'awkwardness' with Western allies
https://www.euronews.com/2025/08/29/finland-will-remove-swastikas-from-its-air-force-flags-to-avoid-awkwardness-with-western-a63
u/dat_9600gt_user Lower Silesia (Poland) 1d ago
Blue swastikas on white backgrounds that have featured on the flags of various Finnish Air Force units since 1918, which officials say is in no way connected to Nazi Germany, are being gradually phased out in an effort to enhance integration with Western allies following NATO membership.
Finland’s Air Force, now part of NATO, is preparing to phase out swastikas which still fly on a handful of unit flags, largely to avoid awkwardness with their Western allies.
The history of the Finnish air force’s use of the swastika, which since the 20th century has largely been associated with Nazi tyranny and hate groups, is more complex than at first appearance.
It’s an ancient symbol and Finland's air force began using it many years before the birth of Nazi Germany. Change has been underway for years. A swastika logo was quietly pulled off the Air Force Command’s unit emblem a few years ago.
But swastikas have remained on some Finnish air force flags, raising eyebrows among NATO allies, tourists and other foreigners who spot them at military events.
“We could have continued with this flag, but sometimes awkward situations can arise with foreign visitors. It may be wise to live with the times,” said Tomi Böhm, the new head of Karelia Air Wing air defence force, speaking to a state-run broadcaster.
Bad look for a new NATO member
The Defence Forces, in an email to The Associated Press on Friday, said a plan to renew the air force unit flags was launched in 2023, the year Finland joined NATO, but said it was not linked to joining the alliance.
The aim, it said, was “to update the symbolism and emblems of the flags to better reflect the current identity of the Air Force.”
It was in reference to an article in the daily Helsingin Sanomat on Friday, which revealed that the reason behind the axing of the controversial emblem was a perception that the swastika has been an “embarrassing symbol in international contexts.”
The Air Force and the Finnish public generally had for years insisted the swastikas used in Finland’s air force “have nothing to do with the Nazi swastika,” said Teivo Teivanen, a professor of world politics at the University of Helsinki, who this month had a book published whose Finnish title translates as “History of the Swastika.”
But now, following Finland’s integration with NATO, policymakers have decided “there’s now a need to get more integrated with the forces of countries like Germany, the Netherlands, and France — countries where the swastika is clearly a negative symbol," he added.
Finland's air force adopted the swastika emblem in 1918 soon after country gained its independence after more than a century of Imperial Russian rule.
The Finnish air force soon after adopted a blue swastika on a white background as the national insignia on all its planes from 1918 to 1945. After the war, the imagery remained for decades on some Air Force unit flags and decorations as well as on the insignia of the Air Force Academy.
The Finnish air force stressed that its use of the symbol had no connection to Nazi Germany, although Finland entered into a reluctant alliance with the Third Reich during World War II.
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u/Al-Capote 1d ago
The very first lines of the article - "Blue swastikas on white backgrounds that have featured on the flags of various Finnish Air Force units since 1918" - are sufficient to not remove them.
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u/BurnTF2 1d ago
This is not about being ashamed of the symbol or 'having to' remove them, we have all right to keep it. This is just to avoid having to constantly talk about it with visitors not familiar with finnish history
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u/ShouldIBeClever 1d ago
It doesn't seem that the Finnish Air Force is that attached to it either. Or, at least not as in favor of keeping the swastika as people in this post are. They've been phasing it out since 2023, and it is no longer on the Air Force Command’s unit emblem.
They give multiple reasons in this article as well:
- "Awkward situations can arise with foreign visitors"
- "[updating] the symbolism and emblems of the flags to better reflect the current identity of the Air Force"
- "A need to get more integrated with the forces of countries like Germany, the Netherlands, and France — countries where the swastika is clearly a negative symbol"
It seems like changing the emblem makes sense at this point in time. Their reason for using the swastika is valid and predates the Nazis. However, it is a symbol that is primarily associated a fascist, genocidal regime and there is no reason to pretend it isn't. It is a political headache to continue using it.
Does the Finnish Air Force want to have to give a history lesson/defense of the symbol every time a diplomat sees one of their planes? Apparently not, as they have chosen to phase it out.
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u/Many-Gas-9376 Finland 1d ago edited 1d ago
This is true, but it's just a lot of hassle to have to explain that history over, and over ... and over again. And with NATO membership, those situations should arise more often by an order of magnitude.
It's a bit stupid, but ultimately, not a hill worth dying on.
While traditional, it's also not a symbol THAT central to Finnish national symbology. I'm patriotic enough, but don't get misty-eyed at the sight of a (Finnish-style) swastika. We can do without.
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u/superkickstart Finland 1d ago
Swastika can go. I'm much more angered about neonazis using our historical runes and imaginery as their own.
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u/erin_burr États-Unis 1d ago
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u/laulujoutsen95 1d ago edited 14h ago
It says right there that it was merely a good luck symbol when the FAF adopted it as their roundel/insignia. Swastikas have been around in Finland since at least the Iron Age, so the symbol was far from unfamiliar. The flags that they remove now (which were designed in the late 1950s) aren’t even based on von Rosen’s blue swastika (featured on the roundel until it was removed in 1945), but on the swastika that can be found on the old FAF uniform badge (the one in the upper right corner, which was designed by a well-known Finnish artist/painter).
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u/RabbdRabbt 23h ago
Put on a t-shirt with 'good luck symbol' and go for a walk in Germany on your summer vacation
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u/laulujoutsen95 22h ago edited 2h ago
I’m not an aircraft, so a roundel would be of no use! ;D / s
I understand that it’s a controversial symbol, and in my opinion the swastikas should have been ditched for something else 80 years ago. There are definitely better (and prettier) symbols that could represent the Finnish Air Force.
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u/VicenteOlisipo Europe 1d ago
If you need to constantly explain why your 1918 symbol isn't technically Nazi, it's probably better to just switch symbols. It's not like it is the Finnish flag or CoA even.
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u/Pure-Mycologist-2711 1d ago
If you need to constantly ask why a historical cultural symbol isn’t specific to a regime at a certain point in time, you probably need to improve your understanding of history.
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u/Anhalir Anarchist 1d ago
Remind me if I'm wrong, but weren't swastikas adopted due to first airplane gifted to Finnish Military, by Hermann Göring's (Yes, that Göring!) brother-in-law, Eric von Rosen, who was a far-right nutjob and Nazi sympathiser, having a swastika on it? Even moreso, when other German fascist movements were using swastika already?
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u/saschaleib 🇧🇪🇩🇪🇫🇮🇦🇹🇵🇱🇭🇺🇭🇷🇪🇺 1d ago
Rosen donated a couple of planes to the first Finnish air force, which already had swastikas painted on them (and even that was before the Nazis adopted the symbol). However, the reason they were not painted over is that the "hakaristi" is a traditional Finnish symbol that was in use already since centuries. In other words: long, long time before the Nazis.
Still, I agree that it is time to get rid of them, as it would be awkward to always explain that to NATO partners.
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u/Anhalir Anarchist 1d ago
Huh, I see. That's neat. Thank you for a deeper explanation!
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u/saschaleib 🇧🇪🇩🇪🇫🇮🇦🇹🇵🇱🇭🇺🇭🇷🇪🇺 1d ago
If you are interested, there is a pretty good Wikipedia article – albeit in Finnish only - on the topic: https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hakaristi_Suomessa – you can use Google Translate or (better!) DeepL.com to translate it. Definitely an interesting read!
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u/ScalySaucerSurfer 1d ago
Let’s be honest, swastika was used by far right circles in Finland and Germany long before Nazis came to power. It’s not innocent, the association is obvious here and as a Finn it’s embarrassing it took us so long to make the correct decision.
There are cases in our history where swastika was used in good faith, as a luck symbol or family insignia. That’s a completely different thing, you must understand the context.
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u/Pure-Mycologist-2711 1d ago
The swastika has been used for 5000+ years in European culture, since the Bronze Age onwards.
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u/Pet_Velvet 1d ago
Yeah and neo-nazis have a strange attachment to it so we need to steer as clear from it as possible
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u/MrKorakis 1d ago
The very first lines of the article - "Blue swastikas on white backgrounds that have featured on the flags of various Finnish Air Force units since 1918" - are sufficient to question the judgement of the Finns for not having removed that shit on May 8, 1945.
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u/based-sam 1d ago
Is this the European version of dumbasses saying the confederate flag is historical and shouldn’t be hidden
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u/mok000 Europe 1d ago
A better analogy is to say the stars in Stars and Stripes represent slavery and should be removed because they were in the Confederate flag.
However I agree the Finnish Air Force should remove the hakaristi from their flag, the swastika has become the undisputed symbol of nazism, regardless the true history of the symbol.
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u/Rooilia 1d ago edited 1d ago
If you know half history, everything can be argued. The initiator had close ties to the emerging fascist, afaik. The connection was there all along and you can't deny what happened very close by in the 30ies and 40ies. While this history partly reoccures today in russia. You can't pretend eberything is fine and everyone is ok with it, just because You want it to. Pretending Fascist plopped up out of nowhere in any year you choose is disingenious to the maximum. Nothing in the world just appears at the day it is first acknowledged. A baby doesn't appear out of nowhere when women give birth.
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u/GalaXion24 Europe 1d ago
The air force academy flag was adopted after WWII and after the Swastika had already been removed from planes. There are historical uses of the swastika in Finland, but this is not really one of them.
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u/Al-Capote 1d ago
No.
History matters.
Context matters.13
u/War_Fries The Netherlands 1d ago edited 1d ago
History teaches us that the swastika is a tainted symbol in the Western world.
We have something called the "Prince's Flag" over here in the Netherlands. It was used during the revolt against the Spanish empire in the 16th century. Its colors are orange-white-blue, instead of red-white-blue.
The flag has been hijacked by the far-right, and is now considered inappropriate by the sane and normal part of society. The "Prince's Flag" is a tainted symbol in the Netherlands. No one, apart from far-right fascists, uses it.
Sometimes you just gotta let go of stuff.
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u/budapestersalat 1d ago
That's exactly how the far right wins. They take everything away from you. Like now the English flag. We have to reclaim such things and sometimes even claim them. Otherwise everything will be claimed by the far right and are always one step back.
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u/War_Fries The Netherlands 1d ago edited 1d ago
They take everything away from you.
They use the "Prince's Flag", because the vast majority of Dutch people would never let them take away the actual flag.
We're talking about the swastika here, arguably the most evil symbol in Western history. Not some minor symbol no one cares about.
This is why I have major troubles with traditions; they are often (heavily) outdated, but incredibly hard to get rid of.
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u/budapestersalat 1d ago
It's all about degrees, context, local history.
They always come for the easier ones first. Don't think they will never be able to take away the flag. Maybe not completely. But in Hungary at some point Orbán did manage to steal one of the most important national unity symbols and make people bitter about it. Now it's being reclaimed too.
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u/gnufoot 1d ago
That's exactly how the far right wins. They take everything away from you.
Really? I haven't used the "prinsenvlag" ever in my life, nor never felt the need. The far right taking that flag and pepe and whatever doesn't affect me whatsoever. They haven't taken anything from me that matters besides a more positive outlook on humanity and the world, due to their rotten values.
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u/budapestersalat 1d ago
They take it away by winning the culture war on symbols, using that momentum to gain actual political power. It's using symbols to turn people towards them, and at the same time use them as distractions, and also for divide and conquer.
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u/FineMaize5778 1d ago
Yes and symbols and language evolves and changes. They can fight a bitter fight to retain their now ruined tattered and cursed symbol. Or they can change it and focus on flying their planes...
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u/Prestigious-Lynx-177 1d ago
History like Finland fighting alongside the Nazis?
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u/TrafficWeasel United Kingdom 1d ago
History like Finland fighting alongside the Nazis?
This sounds really bad when you remove all context.
Can you think of another, arguably greater, threat to Finland during the first half of the 20th century? Bonus points if you use their period correct name.
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u/Srybutimtoolazy Hesse (Germany) 1d ago
Against the soviets who invaded them. Its not like there is much of a choice
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He said context matters as well, and you immedately removed it. Lmao.
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u/Prestigious-Lynx-177 1d ago
Here's the context, the Finns allied with the man and country that made the swastika a banned symbol.
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1d ago
It would be a good idea to mention their war for survival against the huge imperialistic totalitarian soviet neighbor with infinite manpower.
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u/squiggyfm United States of America 1d ago
In a museum, yes. But here, in practice, no. If you have a swastika in on a flag you’re not going to have the opportunity to provide this history and context every time someone sees it.
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u/adwinion_of_greece 1d ago
Yes and the context is that millions of us will forever hate anyone who raises a swastika, and if you raise a swastika we will hate you too.
So you either change symbols or we'll despise you for raising a swastika.
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u/PleaseMayIHaveAnothr 1d ago
History remains.
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u/medievalvelocipede European Union 1d ago
It’s a cursed emblem, doesn’t matter what its history is.
The swastika is at least 19000 years old. If people were brighter they'd recognize that only a very specific use of it is tainted by extremist ideology.
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u/Altruistic-Juice3807 1d ago
So you want to tear down every swastikas found on almost every buddhist temples in Asia?
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u/Pure-Mycologist-2711 1d ago
Same can be said for the Islamic star and crescent then, why are you so concerned with a specific symbol from a specific group?
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u/budapestersalat 1d ago
Nothing is absolute. What became cursed can also be undone, it's all intersubjective. If you let the far right claim everything and you don't claim or even just reclaim anything, don't be surprised if they win
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u/Nothereforstuff123 1d ago
"You don't seem to understand guys, it was actually chosen first by a different right winger to be used as an Air Force symbol. Sure those other right wingers did some bad stuff with the symbol as well, but we're totally not alike, and will definitely keep the symbol for the next 100+ years."
A normal person would read the headline and go "Huh, it's great that they removed the symbol".
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u/Pet_Velvet 1d ago
Yes we know, but the swastikas still look kinda awkward, and being against this change makes you sound like you have a specific attachment to the swastika
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u/SleepySleeper42069 Finland 1d ago
I don't know anybody here in Finland that actually cares about that logo lol. It's very rarely even seen.
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u/Judasz10 Poland 12h ago
There is zero reason not to remove it.
They created the flag once, they can't create another one now. It's not sacred, it's a symbol.
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u/Possible-Campaign-22 1d ago
It’s weird how we allow these horrible dictators claim symbols etc. like western world sees a swastika as offensive because of Hitler but it’s a sign of peace or something in India? Ppl need to stop letting the extremists claim symbols etc. for example I’m from Sweden and love Norse mythology. but a lot of people here would associate wearing thors hammer around your neck and listening to Norse bands with nationalism
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1d ago
Well, at least they'll avoid the russian denazification meme.
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u/ImperatorEuropaeas 1d ago
Nah, those shitbags will just figure out something else. Kind of wish we'd keep the symbol, would hurt their pride some extra to get bombed by a swastika once again, when the war inevitably starts.
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u/Putaineska 1d ago
If there is ever a scenario of war between NATO and Russia we'd all be dead in a nuclear fire or the aftermath.
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u/Sakakidash 1d ago
Its time for buddhist and hindus to reclaim the symbol from the long dead nazis.
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u/Heavy_Practice_6597 1d ago
Literally no culture has a monopoly on the swastika, it's not exactly a hard shape to make, hence why loads of cultures did.
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u/TeilzeitOptimist 1d ago
After that we have to rehabilitate robes with pointy hats. Afaik Wizards are older than the KKK..
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u/Donimbatron Groningen (Netherlands) 15h ago
Sadly air wizards arent that popular if you could be a red fire wizard
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u/BoundToGround 1d ago
Long dead? There still are a few people who experienced the nazi cruelty first hand!
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u/2GR-AURION 1d ago
No reclaiming necessary. It is theirs anyway.
No shortage of swastikas in India & Asia. They are everywhere.
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u/Sakakidash 1d ago
Yes but not in the West which is what I'm speaking about. I would know since I lived 10 years in South Korea. And the local temple was decorated with it.
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u/VisibleFiction Finland 1d ago
As a Finn I think this is a good decision as continuously having to explain about it to foreigners must be annoying and tiring for Finnish diplomats and air force personnel.
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u/Hootrb Cypriot no longer in Germany :( 1d ago
People are either truly clueless or lying to themselves with "we should just educate people" & "you're giving the symbol to the Nazis" stances. The vast majority of average people, not interested in history, have heard some version of either "Sawstikas have a different meaning in India/Japan/Asia/etc." or "Sawstikas were used before Nazis" either through actual education or pop-history. They might not connect the dots on why the Finnish Air Force uses the swastika with the latter fact, but very few people are ignorant to the Swastika's pre- & post-Nazi existance.
People still associate it with Nazis because fascism is still the most common use of the symbol in the West, and its use by the Finnish Airforce is an outlier. Nazis have already taken the symbol & education hasn't helped us take it back. Edgy teens graffiting swastikas are absolutely not doing it to colour the walls with European culture or denote peace or whatever; they're using to mean exactly what you first think of & the new info we taught is simply used as defense.
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u/Alpha-Centauri-Blue Ireland 21h ago
Most normal people aren't encountering the Finnish airforce either. So it's not an issue
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u/Its_Broken 1h ago
Also let's not pretend like "It's a historical symbol!" isn't a huge Nazi dogwhistle anyways. They know, everyone knows. You can't untangle it from Nazi Germany anymore, and any attempt to do so ignores the power it still has in Nazi iconography today.
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u/Pure-Mycologist-2711 1d ago
It’s not the fault of the educated that the ignorant and uneducated are as they are. They have a right to nothing because of their own ignorance.
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u/Hootrb Cypriot no longer in Germany :( 1d ago
Correct, hence why the "ignorant and the uneducated" didn't even demand anything, didn't push for the swastikas removal, or claim they had a right to get the Finns to change it.
This was a change the Finns did of their own will, having seen that neither education nor knowledge had eased peoples discomfort, and that having to explain themselves over the use of a symbol with a very hard-set societal consensus as "the evil symbol" again & again was a futile effort.
Finland is in an alliance filled with European countries, and when in Rome, you'll have a much smoother time doing as the Romans do; And the Romans say "wait, is that a fucking Swastika on a military flag?!"
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u/Achilles_59 1d ago
The convoy can only go as fast as its slowest vessel. If you’re suggesting to cut that slow vessel then you’re no different as the fascists.
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u/MrKorakis 1d ago
And other people have a right to nothing because of their own inability to take a social hint.
Ancient uses of a symbol are not as relevant as the most catastrophic war of the previous century that massively reshaped the continent for decades.
Yes the massive world war less than a century ago is more relevant and likely to be in people's mind than some ancient or medieval time period. If you don't get that it makes you dumb not everyone else
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u/Pet_Velvet 1d ago
Look, regardless if the swastika on the planes actually had nazi roots (it didn't), being against this change makes you look weird.
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u/Nabs-Nice 1d ago
The people jumping to declare how it totally has no connection to Nazis, and was Count Eric von Rosen's personal emblem, are conveniently not mentioning that Von Rosen chose that symbol because he was heavily involved with the proto-nazi movement and Von Rosen literally became one of the founding members of Swedens Nazi party and was even Herman Gorings brother in law. The only way it isnt associated with the Nazis is because this guy was actually being a Nazi before the Nazis were officially founded.
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u/Oxu90 Finland 1d ago
That symbol at the time was already popular in Finland as it was old folk symbol. You can see it in 19th century buildings, famous art etc.
It was not like finnish found out sbout the symbol from him.
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u/Nabs-Nice 1d ago
They literally adopted it because the Count donated his personal plane to the Finnish with the blue swastika painted on it. Most cultures have had a form of swastika in their history, but this was adopted because it was a Nazis personal sigil and painted on the plane he donated. He chose the symbol because he was part of the same proto-nazi movements that lead to the Nazis, and then he helped form his countries own Nazi party.
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u/AdvertisingFlashy637 Czech Republic 23h ago
While it is unfortunate that what was supposed to be a symbol of peace and prosperity will be forever associated with those who commited evil while using it, this is more or less a good thing to pull the plug on propaganda.
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u/Biggeordiegeek 1d ago
They have been slowly doing it for a few years, once they joined NATO it was inevitable, because there was no chance Russia wouldn’t make something of NATO troops next to that symbol
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u/pynsselekrok Finland 1d ago
The Finnish Air Force removed the swastika from its planes already in 1945 during the Lapland War where Finns fought against Nazis.
This is simply a continuation of that trend. Nothing unusual.
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u/Boozfin 1d ago edited 1d ago
Let's turn the flag into our "tursaansydän"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tursaansyd%C3%A4n
This could be another symbol:
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u/Finlandiaprkl Fortress Europe 1d ago
Let's turn the flag into our "tursaansydän"
That's already used by special forces
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u/Hu-Duuh 1d ago
Western ally of Finland here. Not offended by the Finnish swastikas, though the explanation of its origin was helpful. There have been swastikas way older than those from the 20th century. it's too bad that the swastika symbol was tainted by fascism. I wished the Nazis used a poo emoji instead.
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u/SolivagantWalker Serbia 1d ago
r/europe is protecting now swastika?
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u/MaximumRip6283 1d ago
Imagine if I as a Turk tried to convince these people that the wolf hand symbol has multiple meanings, and it doesn’t always mean I’m a member of the grey wolves.
They wouldn’t accept it, this subreddit really has a bunch of xenophobic hypocrites.
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u/GlobalFriendship5855 1d ago
Honestly, they shouldn't. Of course it's a bit "awkward" to say the least but they have been using that symbol since 1918 when the NSDAP didn't even exist yet. Why let the Nazis ruin this tradition as well?
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u/Mynameaintjonas Germany 1d ago
It‘s not like it‘s some actual old tradition or anything. The entire reason why the Finnish air force adopted this symbol in particular is fairly random to begin with. They only implemented it because of some Swedish dude (who would go on to become a prominent Nazi in Schweden) used it as a good luck charme and he gave Finland some planes. The swastika became a generic fashionable symbol around the 1900s and was used all over Europe. But now it has a very clear meaning at least in the Western World. Finland has nothing to lose by removing it.
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u/Alesq13 Finland 1d ago
It‘s not like it‘s some actual old tradition or anything
Depending on what you mean that might not be exactly true. The swastika was really prominent in Finnish culture and art even before 1918, for example during the era of national romanticism and can be seen in buildings, paintings etc from the era. We do still have some more or less hidden swastikas in official symbols that can't be traced back to the controversial Von Rosen.
That being said, the FDF know what they are doing and it's the right thing to change it.
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u/Kitiseva_lokki 1d ago
It's not only from Von Rosen's aircraft, hakaristi has been a prominent symbol in Finnish art and culture from the early days of independence. It's for example very prominant in the highest military/civilian awards, the President uses it in his flag etc etc
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u/DunderDog2 Finland 1d ago
I'm a bit torn on the issue. No, it is not the nazi swastika. Do people still make the connection? Absolutely. Every flag day parade and independence day parade I see people, both foreign and Finnish citizens asking why we are marching with a nazi symbol. I do feel like the nazis "win" when we remove the symbol, but I'm leaning on that we should remove it, because people will always make that connection, no matter how hard you try to tell them they aren't connected.
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u/GlobalFriendship5855 1d ago
I see it as a good way to show people that the swastika is not always a Nazi sign. It's in use in many cultures over the world and always means something completely different.
Of course people will always ask questions but maybe that's a good thing.
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u/Pet_Velvet 1d ago
Also nazis feel strangely proud of that symbol still being used, so I don't want to give them that
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u/McDonaldsWitchcraft Bucharest 1d ago
Will someone please look up why the swastika is there in the first place?
Yes, it's before NSDAP but it is still there because of a specific guy that was, in 1918, a "national socialist".
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u/GlobalFriendship5855 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yes, he became a Nazi but that's not why he chose the swastika. Because the swastika was not the symbol of national socialism in 1918 yet. National socialism as we know it didn't even really exist yet.
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u/Bananonomini 1d ago
Why shouldnt they change a picture? Are we expected to have the same graphics forever? What's the fuss over? Christ.
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u/MrKorakis 1d ago
Why let the Nazis ruin this tradition as well?
Nobody is letting them, just like the toothbrush mustache and the name Adolf they already did 80 years ago. There is no undoing that now
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u/OnkelMickwald Sweden 1d ago
Doesn't the Finnish Order of the Cross of Liberty still retain a (subtle) swastika nestled inside the main cross? Will that change?
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u/East_Season_1430 10h ago
unnecessary change, they used that symbol before nazi germany even existed
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u/country_lorenz 1d ago
Keep them, it has nothing to do with Nazism.
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1d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/FinnoPenguin 1d ago
Nazis didn't even exist yet when the symbol was adopted by the Air Force.
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u/himesama 1d ago
Nazism as an ideology and use of the swastika has roots in 19th century Volkisch romantic nationalism and antisemitism. It predates the actual founding date of the NSDAP.
von Rosen was also a Nazi, brother in law to Goring, and his personal swastika was adopted by the Finnish air force.
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u/Tempires Finland 1d ago
Cools story but doesn't relate nazis to to finnish swastika.
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u/himesama 1d ago
Does it not? Even if Finland's use isn't politically associated, it's still associated by its adoption from a Nazi.
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u/Tempires Finland 1d ago
But what points he was nazi in 1890s instead of 1930s or 1920s earlier? He start using it 1901 at the latest. While air force adopted swastika in 1918, air force Flag and medals made afterwards were designed by finnish Gallen-kallela who has also used swastika in 1889 in his kalevala work and others. Von Rosen is reason for increased use of swastika in air force but not sole reason for use in Finland either.
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u/CommanderCorrigan Estonia 1d ago
Bullshit, more erasing of history.
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u/correctedboat LT -> UK 1d ago
didn't you learn? It's only erasure of history when soviet monuments get removed
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u/MrKorakis 1d ago
Erasing of history is what people are trying to do when they pretend they don't see why people make the connection with that symbol and the Nazis. Sorry but that is going to carry that stink for way more than 80 years
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u/Krislazz 1d ago
Does anyone know what they do if they visit Germany? In the case of the flag I suppose they would just not fly them, but if the symbol is painted on their planes it might not be that simple
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u/AirportCreep Finland 1d ago
It's only on some units symbols and medals and such, they've been phasing it out for a while now. These days you only really see it during ceremonial parades. A few years ago the swastika caused a bit of an awkward situation with the German air force pulling out of a final ceremony following the exercise when they learned that the Finnish swastika were to be on display.
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u/Any_Economics7803 Finland 1d ago
planes only have white circle with blue dot in the middle
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u/Krislazz 1d ago
Fair enough. I read the article as if they continued to use the symbol past '45, suppose I misread.
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u/ElegantLifeguard4221 Ireland 1d ago
Isn't it also the angle of the cross, not just the shape? I know Hindus who have the cross but in a different more squared angle, where was the Nazis had it at a 45°
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u/BallbusterSicko 1d ago
The nazis used it at verious angles. Sometimes the "hindu"-type angle was also used
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[removed] — view removed comment
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u/arrroquw 1d ago
You clearly didn't read the article. Finland was using the symbol before NSDAP was even being thought of as a concept.
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u/dworthy444 Bayern 1d ago
Yes, because the guy who donated planes to Finland loved the symbol. At the time, he considered himself to be a 'national socialist' and ended up joining the Swedish equivalent of the NSDAP later on.
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u/FinnoPenguin 1d ago
The concept of national socialism didn't even exist yet when the plane was donated.
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u/Srybutimtoolazy Hesse (Germany) 1d ago
You clearly dont get it. I dont blaim you. It requires some thinking
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u/Srybutimtoolazy Hesse (Germany) 1d ago
Once again, my grandpa was not a murderer or a nazi. You clearly lack the additional ability to read the conversation i had with the person i replied to donw below
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u/WeightConscious4499 1d ago
Don’t ask Finns about Nazi collaboration
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u/laulujoutsen95 1d ago edited 1d ago
There would have been no collaboration had Finland not been left in the dark. Nazi Germany wasn’t exactly friendly to Finland with their supremacist views, Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact and indirect support to the Soviets during the Winter War.
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u/BallbusterSicko 1d ago
Except we're not in Japan so what's this argument? If it wasn't controversial in Europe then it wouldn't be removed but it IS controversial in Europe
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u/Pure-Mycologist-2711 1d ago
So is the Islamic star and crescent, we should get rid of it. And as you said if we have the right to do so, which we do, then we can do so.
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u/BallbusterSicko 1d ago
The islamic star and crescent is not controversial and there's nothing to remove it from because it's not featured on any European nation's official symbols
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u/Pure-Mycologist-2711 1d ago
It’s extremely controversial and Islam is extremely controversial, and as you said yourself:
- I don’t have to even change my opinion in light of any other information
- I have the right to advocate for removal of any symbol I deem controversial as a result
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u/BallbusterSicko 1d ago
You have the right to advocate whatever, I wasn't questioning your right to do it for a single time in my life
other than that, islam is not controversial in the wider society, it may be controversial for you and people that you associate with
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u/Possible_Golf3180 Latvia 1d ago
I’m not in favour of removing it on the basis of someone uneducated in the matter potentially having their sensibilities touched.
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u/tablakapatarei 1d ago
Yep, it will turn the historical use of such insignia as an even more apparent "Nazi" issue for Russian propagandists.
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u/Possible_Golf3180 Latvia 1d ago
Puccia will find ways to paint things in any way they want with or without it. So what their propagandists will think is worth less than nothing. They can also easily just keep pointing towards it after its removal, you seem under the impression the propagandists are going to stay 100% factual or even 10% factual and that they’ll only point to it while in the presence of Finnish aircraft he can physically observe the logo of with his own eyes. They can easily just take historical documentation from pre-Soviet times, point to that and say they were five milliseconds too hesitant to change it, thus proving vitriolic russophobia within the hearts of the monstrous Finns in the modern era.
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u/tablakapatarei 1d ago
So what their propagandists will think is worth less than nothing.
Well it's worth something if it caused Finland to change their non-Nazi insignia...
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u/julien_091003 1d ago
Remove it now
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u/MLG-Lyx 1d ago
Yeah but think about it this way that symbol was not in any part relwted to NAZI germany it was there even before
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u/EcstaticYesterday605 Ireland 1d ago
It is a gift for Russian propaganda regardless of the contest or history. Finns did the right thing here imo.