r/europe • u/Socmel_ reddit mods are accomplices of nazi russia • 5d ago
On this day The Gleiwitz incident was a false flag attack on the radio station Sender Gleiwitz (then Germany and now Gliwice, Poland) staged by Nazis on 31st August 1939. Along with some two dozen similar incidents, the attack was manufactured by the Nazis as a casus belli to justify the invasion of Poland.
41
u/baltan-man Kuyavia-Pomerania (Poland) 5d ago
I actually visited the radio tower this vacation. There is a memorial there dedicated to Franz Honiok.
170
u/North-Protection2610 5d ago
As relevant as ever! The Nazis have written the modern day playbook for pretty much all authoritarians and dictators!
26
u/CataphractBunny Croatia 5d ago
Wdym? False flag attacks have been used since forever.
-8
u/Affectionate_Run_799 5d ago
ancient barbarians had more honour than sneaky little kings
10
u/EqualContact United States of America 4d ago
Eh, sometimes. Sometimes they didn’t care. The major conquerers tended to not give a crap.
The Romans are the nation we get most of our concept of casus belli from (a Latin term of course). Most ancient nations didn’t really bother to justify war, it was just whatever the ruler wanted. Because of Rome being a republic though, it became important to “justify” a conflict to both the Senate and the populace, since so much of Roman military power was tied to citizen-soldiers rather than professionals. Most nations in Europe and the Mediterranean trace some cultural history to the Romans, and it became very important to actually have justifications for war instead of the king just wanting to conquer some land.
3
u/GalacticSettler Pomerania (Poland) 4d ago
How to tell you don't know history without telling you don't know history.
82
u/Socmel_ reddit mods are accomplices of nazi russia 5d ago
Putler studied very hard on this when he launched false flag operations in the Donbass and lots of people feel for it
39
u/kumachi42 Ukraine 5d ago
Honestly, they were so inept at creating casus beli and those false flags were so pathetic that they dropped all pretence and just invaded without one.
17
u/Socmel_ reddit mods are accomplices of nazi russia 5d ago edited 5d ago
They were credible enough to make foreigners fall for it. I had to cut a family friend (a champagne socialist) who was posting regularly about Ukrainian nazis (obviously led by Azov battalion) bombarding totally legit Donbass freedom fighters
1
u/FinkAdele 5d ago
What is champagne socialist? Never heard the term before.
17
u/suicidemachine 4d ago edited 4d ago
An unshaved 50 year old man sitting in some obscure French caffee located in Paris, eating caviar, drinking wine and wondering how great it would be to live in Mao Zedong's China.
5
2
-14
u/Ikcenhonorem 5d ago
They tried few false flag operations, but they also did not want to kill people - that really easy could become PR disaster, so it was extremely vague and useless even for internal propaganda. So instead they invented some genocide in Donbas - numbers disprove that, and NATO expansion, which is kind of factual.
18
u/Plenty_Ambassador424 Baden-Württemberg (Germany) 5d ago
NATO expansion, which is kind of factual.
Except it kind of isnt, because NATO didnt expand from west to east, but the other way around. Noone is forced to join, they do so by their own will, they come to NATO, not NATO to them. russia really is the best at generating new NATO partners, NATO doesnt really have to do anything in order to "expand", russias actions are the best advertisement for a NATO membership there is.
-11
u/Ikcenhonorem 5d ago edited 4d ago
Did NATO expanded? It did. For Russia it does not matter if countries joined NATO willingly. What matters is that countries joined NATO to protect from Russia.
Minuses show unexpected level of idiocy. You think like this - I somehow defend Russia, because Russia claims NATO is a threat to them.
And you are idiots. As if NATO is not a threat to Russia and Russian imperial ambitions, then why to join NATO. Seems in your utter idiocy you agree with another part of Russian propaganda - that NATO will not protect its members in a case of Russian aggression.
I did not expect such idiocy from Polish and Ukrainian people honestly, although there are idiots everywhere.
Why I shall explain something so obvious? Indeed NATO is not offensive threat to Russia, like Russian propaganda claims. But also NATO is very objective threat to Russian desire and ambition to restore its former empire in Europe. That is what Russia cares about. And this is obvious. For Russia does not matter how any country joined NATO and why. For Russia matters that country got out of the Russian sphere of influence and possible conquest.
And just to show your idiocy - imagine now if Hungary and Slovakia willingly leave NATO and join the Russian alliance. You claim that will not be expansion of Russian influence. (It will not happen, although there are idiots everywhere, I thought Brexit will not happen too, and I thought Putin is not so stupid to invade Ukraine - a war it was crystal clear he cannot win.)
7
2
u/Fedora_Million_Ankle 5d ago
A lot of it borrowed from other countries and governments, including America.
-6
u/EstablishmentLow2312 5d ago
They learn alot from america and segregation
3
u/EqualContact United States of America 4d ago
Hitler liked some things about how the US was doing segregation, but we hardly invented the concept. Imperial Russia was probably more what he had in mind (their oppression of Jews looks a lot like what Germany actually did in the 1930s), but of course that would have been “icky” for good Germans. The US was a “modern” nation though, so it was easier to point to them as an example.
We didn’t start false flag ops either. Sweden created Russian military uniforms for a false flag op in 1788.
27
u/Ikcenhonorem 5d ago
Nobody believed that even then. It was for internal propaganda to justify the war against Poland for Germans. People may say - but it was dictatorship? Kind of, indeed. But still they had to please population and they did that until they started to lose the war really bad.
-5
u/Dapperrevolutionary 4d ago
If nobody believed it then what was the point? Nobody internally believed it either.
3
u/Ikcenhonorem 4d ago
Nobody outside Germany. In Germany, as Nazi controlled the media, probably many people believed Poland is attacking. By nobody I mean politicians, generals, nobody who took decisions. Factually all these people knew Germany will invade Poland and nobody did anything meaningful. UK, USSR and France were probably as guilty for the war as Germany. German army literally trained in USSR as initially they could not do that in Germany. In Ukraine to be exact. USSR was their main supplier with steel and oil. But then - when entire German army was in Poland, France attacked Germany, as it should, and stopped only few kilometers inside German territory. Even Hitler could not believe. UK was passive too, although English propaganda claims the opposite. US were not involved then. There were even politicians who supported Nazis, including genocidal racism and eugenics, as both were invented in US to justify segregation of black people after the Civil war. The world before WW2 was very different from the world we live now. Although some parts were kind of better, as large part of the insane violence of last century is due random lines on the maps drawn from European politicians and the idea for national self-determination started by Woodrow Wilson after WW1. That idea almost immediately led to genocidal war between Greece and Turkey. It is a good idea, but there are minorities in every nation, and when you give them the right of national self-determination, that creates obvious problems.
36
u/Smells_like_Autumn 5d ago
"Mr President, a walrus has just hit the pentagon!"
"Time to kick the shit out of Greenland!"
0
u/forsti5000 Bavaria (Germany) 4d ago
"Are you fucking mental Mr. President? Those Ice-Mexicans have tech to lob a walrus from Greenland to here. We need to surender right now." ;)
2
u/Saandrig 4d ago
"The walrus was also wearing a MAGA hat, so it's technically one of ours. Just smarter."
16
u/savois-faire The Netherlands 5d ago edited 4d ago
And tomorrow is the anniversary of the attack on the Polish Post Office in Gdansk, one of the first official acts of war in WWII.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_of_the_Polish_Post_Office_in_Danzig
3
u/TheManWhoClicks 4d ago
The US is one false flag operation away from a strong military clamp down. Right now the military is being brought into position for this. Source: me, wearing half (!) of an aluminum hat
3
u/JuliusFIN 4d ago
Imagine those times when you had to stage a casus belli. Nowadays you can just go for it.
2
u/TheIncredibleHeinz 4d ago
Hitlers Reichstag speech on September 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5iwKhmddyo
2
2
u/ikiice 4d ago
Fun fact - one of participants in the plot to stage false flag attack, was the SS agent in Poland... Oskar Schindler (yes, the guy from the movie with Liam Neeson)
5
u/Optimal-Part-7182 4d ago
Not true - he worked as a spy for Germany before the war, mainly in his home region in Czechoslowakia and after he got caught, was sentenced to death by the Czech government and then freed due to the Munich agreement, he worked as a spy in Breslau (due to his wife living there and him regularly travelling there).
He provided information on railway Infrastructure, but he was not involved in the planning and execution of the Gleiwitz incident. He was not important enough for this. Just one of thousands of spies for Germany there.
No idea where this myth of him beeing part of the Gleiwitz incident is comming from but it is all over reddit.
-1
u/ikiice 4d ago
Not true - he did provide group of SS-men with Polish uniforms, weapons and documents once they were in Poland.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/80-years-ago-how-a-very-different-schindlers-list-helped-ignite-wwii/
2
u/Optimal-Part-7182 4d ago
This is Not true and was already disproved. The historian claiming that this happened is known for bending the truth.
There is an article about him constantly changing his claims about Schindler.
The only thing that went a bit into this direction was that Schindler apparantly bought a polish uniform once and sent it to Germany.
But he was never an „SS-Agent“, he never participated in the Gleiwitz incident nor was he supplying the uniforms.
https://www.spiegel.de/kultur/das-wahre-wilde-leben-a-e396748c-0002-0001-0000-000041429247
0
u/ikiice 4d ago
From the article you linked:
Much worse. The Germans allegedly needed "Polish uniforms, military IDs, and weapons" in order to attack the German radio station in Gliwice disguised as Polish soldiers, so that Hitler could respond to the staged attack with a declaration of war. According to a report by Emilie Schindler, "the Schindlers obtained the Polish uniforms and hid them in their apartment in Ostrava until they were sent to Heydrich's agent." The first uniform, according to Crowe, Emilie said, was bought from a Polish soldier and sent to Berlin, "where it was copied."
1
u/Optimal-Part-7182 4d ago edited 4d ago
Why Are you not citing what is stated directly before and after?
Especially the part after the one you cited disproves what you wrote about Schindler being an SS-Agent that took part in the Gleiwitz incident and also your other comment that he provided weapons and fake IDs…
„this was his only contribution regarding the invasion on Poland“… Sending a Polish uniform to Germany.
„Schindler, writes Crowe, not only “provided the German Abwehr with material on the Czechoslovakian railroad network”, he was also “involved in the preparations for the German invasion of Poland”.
That would indeed be a real sensation. Did Schindler sit in the general staff and draw maps? Did he even take up quarters in Warsaw in time to organize the reception of the German troops?
Much worse. The Germans allegedly needed “Polish uniforms, military IDs and weapons” to attack the German station in Gliwice disguised as Polish soldiers so that Hitler could respond to the faked attack with a declaration of war. According to a report by Emilie Schindler, “the Schindlers obtained the Polish uniforms and hid them in their apartment in Moravian Ostrava until they were sent to Heydrich's agents”. The first uniform, according to Emilie Crowe, was “bought from a Polish soldier and sent to Berlin”, “where it was re-tailored”.
Apart from the small discrepancy between the two versions, this was, Crowe writes, “Schindler's only contribution in the run-up to the invasion of Poland”.
And: "It is possible that he ordered larger quantities Polish uniforms, weapons and cigarettes in his apartment."
Possibly. This is how Crowe makes an assertion and then reduces it to a conjecture. He uses this technique frequently, going to great lengths to reconstruct details from files, protocols and memories that are irrelevant to the story itself.“
-1
u/ikiice 4d ago
So uh, where is the part that "debunks" his involvement in Gleiwitz incident?
It seems to me like he was indeed involved, even though he was not aware of the big plan, which is pretty normal in this line of work - info on need-to-know basis
0
u/Optimal-Part-7182 4d ago edited 4d ago
All of it?
The only Historian claiming he has some ivolvement by providing uniforms made contrary claims. He also adjusted a lot of the claims.
In addition, a lot of his „sources“ are a Single interview of Emilie Schindler that a sensational reporter conducted decades earlier when she was really old and which contains a lot of citations that make no sense.
But yeah Buddy, he definetly was an SS-Agent that took part in the Gleiwitz incident…
2
u/FentFloyd69 4d ago
To this day I still see tankies (that’s right, not nazis, tankies). Use this incident to justify invasion and partition of Poland by Nazis and USSR.
1
1
1
1
u/cocksplit 1d ago
Thats a big lie! After WW I the Polishs (driven from Churchill and Rousevelt!) had raided and killed thousands of Germans finally with the target to provoke Hitler, that he had to let march the Wehrmacht to protect there millions of Germans...
f.e.: The bloody night of Bromberg, where about 5 Thousands of Germans were killed by the Polishs!!!
No - the Nazis had nothing to manufacture! They had the full human right to protect their peoples! As like Russia today had the full right to protect the Millions of Russians in the Ukraine.
Nono - the true war-drivers will sit over the Sea always: in UK and USA!!
1
1
u/EstablishmentLow2312 5d ago
Poor poland, now western europe gaslights them 😢
3
u/Top-Sort-4278 4d ago
Western Europe gaslights them? You must be joking? The country has received tremendous amounts of aid from the EU and at the same time is one of the countries who has done extremely well economically thanks to its membership in the EU.
What does Poland do as a way to show gratitude? Votes in some douchebag who wants to leave the EU.
1
u/Annonimbus 4d ago
Also they covered Hungary for a long time against EU sanctions. It's really a difficult country to have on your side
-1
u/EstablishmentLow2312 3d ago
€245.5 billion from the EU budget while contributing about €83.7 billion, resulting in a net gain of around €161.6 billion.
The total cost of World War II destruction in Poland—including the killing of around 6 million citizens (with systematic targeting of the intelligentsia), the destruction of nearly half of buildings and infrastructure, the looting of cultural and industrial assets, and the exploitation of millions of Poles as forced laborers in the German war economy—is estimated at well over €1 trillion in today’s value.
Do the math 😉
Well 🇪🇺 well 👱♂️ well 🇩🇪
1
2
u/Rationalinsanity1990 Canada 5d ago
Keep an eye on Magastan pulling this on Canada, Greenland or Mexico.
-21
u/Sinapsis42 5d ago
On October 7, someone may have deliberately delayed warning a certain sleeping army. Can. Just thinking about it scares me. Devilish minds are capable of terrible things.
2
u/baltan-man Kuyavia-Pomerania (Poland) 5d ago
why are you talking about things that took place in Asia when this is r/europe?
-8
-1
-6
u/bambam178902 4d ago
as Trump would say you don't want to fight with someone who is stronger than you, just surrender
-23
5d ago
[deleted]
6
u/Dallas-Shooter 5d ago
Just exchange Poland for the USA and you are totally correct. Weapons of Mass Destruction bullshlt which were never ever found !
3
-1
327
u/GlobalFriendship5855 5d ago
It's interesting how some Poles attacked Germany so suddenly and unexpectedly, yet the Nazis had over 1 million soldiers ready to invade just a few hours later.