What do you know about... the UK?

[u/MarktpLatz]

This is the sixth part of our ongoing weekly series about the countries of Europe. You can find an overview here.

Todays country:

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

The UK is the second most populous state in the EU. Famous for once being the worlds leading power, reigning over a large empire, it has recently taken the decision to exit the EU.

So, what do you know about the UK?

[u/AbstractLemgth]

that guy literally went off on one about an anti-UK circlejerk despite like 90% of the comments in this thread being positive, barring myself, who was born and continues to live in the UK. this is not an uncommon occurrence.

also,

terribly misguided anglosceptic

lmao jesus christ

[u/[deleted] → u/AbstractLemgth]

who was born and continues to live in the UK

Why do you still live here by the way? It seems apparent from the rest of this thread that you have a deep sense of self loathing for being born British. Why not move to another EU country and get citizenship there seen as you hate the UK so much?

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

self loathing for being born British

You are not your country and your nationality is not a suitable proxy for personal achievement.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I know that but his remarks in the thread are disparaging of people for the simple act of being british. He's the one conflating the state and the people, I'm just responding to it on his terms.

[u/AbstractLemgth → u/[deleted]]

I literally said here that i don't have any actual opinions about the 'character' of the population because it would just devolve into stereotyping. Although it's kinda cute that you're accusing me of conflating the country and the population while getting all upset that i'm mocking the country.

For your actual question, I live here because UK science is world leading. Having said that, we're currently losing funding and support at an alarming rate, so it's looking pretty likely that I will just fuck off to the continent. It will be a shame to leave London, but ultimately if the country is willing to shoot itself in the head over non-existent problems at the cost of stability etc, i'm not going to be a part of it.

[u/HadfieldPJ → u/AbstractLemgth]

Yawn you sound like a blast mate, gimme your paypal deets and I'll personally pay for your plane ticket.

[u/AbstractLemgth → u/[deleted]]

My contract lasts another two years, which is a good amount of time to see how tits up everything is going to go, then make a decision.

millions of Remain voters who said they'd leave the day after the referendum

imagine actually believing that 'millions' of these people existed lmao

[u/WeighWord → u/AbstractLemgth]

see how tits up everything is going to go

It sounds like you already know how "everything is going to go".

[u/AbstractLemgth → u/WeighWord]

If the Tory rhetoric on the subject is a good predictor of the future, then yes. But I trust Tories about as far as I can throw them, so it depends on what actually happens.

[u/WeighWord → u/AbstractLemgth]

Dude, stop looking at everything through some warped, skewed, political lense. The Tories aren't out baying for blood and rounding up the smallfolk for "re-education". It sounds just like the anti-Thatchers who were burning effigies of her after she died. When asked, "What's your grievance with the formed Prime Minister?" They had very, very little to say.

[u/AbstractLemgth → u/WeighWord]

I have no idea what you're on about. I'm simply saying that even though the Tories have said that they want out of the single market and customs union, that might not necessarily be the outcome.

[u/WeighWord → u/AbstractLemgth]

Fair enough. I'm too tired to veer off on a political tangent. Enjoy your evening.

[u/Jonstiniho89 → u/AbstractLemgth]

Thank God for that, please fuck off ASAP

[u/[deleted] → u/Jonstiniho89]

also thank mr skeltal for good bones and calcium

[u/Jonstiniho89 → u/[deleted]]

Thanks Mr Skeltal

[u/[deleted] → u/Jonstiniho89]

thank

[u/Jonstiniho89 → u/[deleted]]

Weirdest bot ever...

[u/AbstractLemgth → u/Jonstiniho89]

'Thank god that all the nasty unpatriotic scientists can go away and leave me to my flag wanking in peace'

[u/Jonstiniho89 → u/AbstractLemgth]

I'm a scientist too dipshit, I can assure you there's no shortage at the moment... We have ~50 applicants for every role. You're just spineless, if you don't like the country then leave.. We would be better off without pansies like you

[u/AbstractLemgth → u/Jonstiniho89]

'Thank god that all the nasty unpatriotic scientists can go away and leave me to my flag wanking in peace'

I hope you aren't too attached to having a job, because all that funding's going to go out the window once we lose access to Horizon 2020 and every private company on Earth recognises that there's no point in investing in a country which doesn't conform to EU standardisations and specifications.

[u/Jonstiniho89 → u/AbstractLemgth]

You don't have to be patriotic, if you can't see the distinction between being "patriotic" and straight up hatred for your country then you're clearly not that bright. Being a lab rat doesn't make you a scientist... Edit: Sorry i didn't see that comment at the end.. It only showed the quote to begin with. The company i work for isn't being hit hard at all, prior to Brexit we secured a huge investment from the Scottish government and it's in a field that is growing significantly. Look mate, you need to get over the fact that people voted to leave the EU... If you can't grow up and accept that then please leave. Perpetual whining isn't going to change anything, you need to accept it and move on

[u/AbstractLemgth → u/Jonstiniho89]

Look mate, you need to get over the fact that people voted to leave the EU

And you need to get over the fact that a) the government is driving EU talent away from the country, when the entire quaternary sector is extremely dependent on immigration, and b) why would I bother to work in a country which is happy to capitulate to the US, when I could move to the continent and get paid more, work less, and keep my EU rights?

It's like, quit whining because we're not all genuflecting at the alter of Brexit. Your actions have consequences, and if you don't like the consequences, then maybe you should have thought of that before.

[u/Jonstiniho89 → u/AbstractLemgth]

You clearly don't understand do you, leaving the EU doesn't mean all Europeans are going to be prohibited from coming to the UK - it just means there won't be open borders. Why would the Government turn away highly skilled individuals to fill specialised roles? Captiulate to the US? No mate, it's called global economics... They want to do a trade deal which is mutually beneficial.. That's how bilateral trade works.. I have a feeling you're some 18-20 year old guy who has been spending far too much time in /r/WorldNews ... You live in a democracy, there's always going to be decisions made that don't fit with your own political agenda... You can't throw your toys out of the pram when something doesn't go your way. If you can't handle it then by all means leave! Like i said, we could do with a few less spineless pansies like yourself

[u/AbstractLemgth → u/Jonstiniho89]

Fuck that's a lot of Leaver platitudes. I'm just going to pick out two.

They want to do a trade deal which is mutually beneficial.. That's how bilateral trade works..

Let me explain something to you. Trade deals are certainly 'mutually beneficial' - otherwise they wouldn't happen at all, obviously - but 'mutually beneficial' does not mean 'equal gain'.

The EU currently provides a service (which idiot Euroskeptics think is a loss of muh sovrinty), namely negotiating trade deals on our behalf. Considering that it's patently obvious that a 28 country economic bloc has a better negotiating position than one country standing alone, this is one of the many benefits of the EU.

If and when we leave the EU (and single market, and customs union - going by Tory rhetoric), two things happen for certain:

a) Tariffs and custom checks immediately go up around our biggest trade partner, negatively impacting trade.

b) We lose all of the trade deals which we enjoyed within the EEA.

This is a nightmare scenario, since it is physically not possible to produce billions of £s worth of trade overnight to compensate for barriers to trade being hoisted up. And this is a time bomb which is ticking down, since we are forcibly ejected from the EU after two years if we do not reach a preliminary agreement after triggering Article 50. You can read more about this here if you want.

The US will then, probably, offer us a trade deal. But, considering the vulnerable position we will be in, any trade deal will be better than no trade deal.

If you saw the state of TTIP and what it wanted to do to European standards, imagine what a US-UK trade deal will look like when the UK is desperate for trade deals (as opposed to it being optional with the EU), when we're a much smaller economy than the EU, when we have a two year timelimit (note: that Canada-EU trade deal will take two years to ratify alone, and took at least 7 to negotiate), when we have no trade negotiators (another service which the EU provides - we can hire some, but we'll have to shell out a lot of money), and when the current barriers to trade with the US are mostly non-tariff related.

The answer is handing ar sovrinty, not to a parliament in Brussels, but to men behind closed doors in Washington. I guarantee you, and you can quote me on this if i end up being wrong, that:

IF the UK does a hard brexit (no single market, no customs union);

THEN the UK will feel obliged to sign a predatory trade deal with the US, which will inevitably mean ISDS and opening up previously untouchable areas of the country (such as the NHS) to American businesses. All for the privilege of not crashing as a result of putting up trade barriers with our largest trade partner.

Why would the Government turn away highly skilled individuals to fill specialised roles?

You haven't really got an answer for the far more important question: why would highly skilled individuals want to come to a country where wages are stagnant, work hours are increasing, they have to jump through hoops to get in, and the country and government (as evidenced by their treatment of EU nationals currently living in the UK) could not give less of a shit about them?

Of course, all of this is nasty unpatriotic expert talk, so you're going to continue about your day as if Brexit is going to give everyone a lifetime's supply of innovative jams and will also reestablish the Empire. Just don't be surprised when suddenly you have to pay for surgery.

[u/WeighWord → u/AbstractLemgth]

I live with two Italian scientists. One is currently vying for citizenship, the other is securing the longest employment contract here that they can achieve. Both their friends and families are scrambling to get jobs/university places in the UK.

Might be anecdotal, but that's my experience with EU nationals living here.

[u/AbstractLemgth → u/WeighWord]

They are already in the country and don't want to lose their lives. It makes total sense. I was referring to people who might want to immigrate in future - although there are people who have felt so unwanted that they have already left.

[u/karmagovernment → u/Jonstiniho89]

because all that funding'

Where do you think all that EU funding comes from? The taxpayer!

When it comes to EU funds the UK pays in significantly more than it takes out. The British Government will actually have more money to play with in the long run, and they've already stated they will match EU science funds. I wouldn't be suprised if they give more as time goes on in order to remain competitive.

[u/Jonstiniho89 → u/karmagovernment]

Exactly, there's no denying we will lose some EU talent - but the idea that funding will cease once we leave is just ridiculous.. The funding voids will be filled, and we will without a doubt continue to be one of the leading countries in Scientific and technological advancements