What do you know about... Kosovo?

[u/MarktpLatz]

This is the thirty-second part of our ongoing series about the countries of Europe. You can find an overview here.

Today's country:

Kosovo

Kosovo is a partially recognized state in the balkan. It belonged to the Ottoman empire from the 15th until the beginning of the 20th century. After being part of Yugoslavia for most of the 20th century, Kosovo unilaterally declared independence in 2008. It has been recognized as a country by 111 nations, but Serbia refuses to recognize it as a souverign state. Notable european countries refusing to recognize Kosovo include Spain (because of separatist movements in Spain), Greece and Russia (there are several more, you can check the list linked).

So, what do you know about Kosovo?

---

Major thanks to /u/our_best_friend, who took care of these threads during my absence.

[u/Anton-Slavik]

Kill everyone of Albanian origin obviously. /s

I get the impression that's what you're baiting here for. All in all, I don't think all that many Albanians would want to live in Kosovo & Metohija (why do you drop that part from its full name, is it because it actually tells about its history?) if it was folded back into Serbian control. Whether it'd be out of misguided fear from reprisals or what not, I imagine the 1.6 million number would severely decrease.

Even if the numbers stayed the same, and no one moved for whatever reason, I wouldn't mind, so long as they acted civilized. That's what you fail to understand here. It's not coexistence that's the problem, that's just fine, it's people who would try to have some form of majority rule. The ones issuing more and more preposterous demands until the cup runneth over and then everyone stands surprised and act like they totally couldn't see that happening.

Speaking of the percentage of Albanians in K&M, how odd that it celebrates some sort of 'diversity' on its flag, when it has practically ethnically cleansed the land of non-Albanians. Really weird, considering we got bombed for the mere accusation of doing that, yet when the other side did it quite effectively, not even a peep.

[u/Linquista → u/Anton-Slavik]

Why are digressing lol? What rights would these Albanians even have?They would never be satisfied under Serbian rule, and rightfully so. Also in no fucking way would people want to leave in case Kosovo became Seebian again, unless you go full Milosevic and repress civil rights, in wgich case there will be another war. If that us what you're bettin on, keep dreaming.

[u/Anton-Slavik → u/Linquista]

What rights would these Albanians even have?

The same ones that everyone else in Serbia has.

They would never be satisfied under Serbian rule

Their satisfaction is absolutely irrelevant when squared up against the rule of law.

in wgich case there will be another war

There was never a war to begin with. There was a police/military action against some terrorists, and in its usual fashion the USA stuck its nose where it simply didn't belong. If it had been an actual war, there'd have been ground troops. Other than Albanian terrorists and those aiding them, there was no hostile presence in K&M until after the unlawful bombing ceased and the USA moved into the neighborhood.

[u/Linquista → u/Anton-Slavik]

No it isn't irrelevant. People would obviously have to learn Serbian, kids will be taught Serbian history instead, no types of Albanian nationalism and patriotism would be allowed. These may seem like minor things to you but many here take this seriously, also many still bear the traumas of the 90s and would welcome their opressors with little pleasure. Also, who would lead the local government? Some serb? People would burn the whole place down

[u/Anton-Slavik → u/Linquista]

People would obviously have to learn Serbian

The horror! Having to learn the language of the country you live in, truly it is beyond the pale!

kids will be taught Serbian history

No shit. You live in Serbia, you learn the history of Serbia.

no types of Albanian nationalism and patriotism would be allowed.

Given what has happened in the past 20-30 years? You can't be surprised that this would be looked down upon. You can take pride in your own ethnic group, but attempting an unlawful secession, appointing terrorists to your make-believe government - how do you think it would make any sense for these things to stand unchallenged?

People would burn the whole place down

You already did that, even after getting things your way, courtesy of the USA.

Or are the events of 2004 suddenly slipping from your mind?

[u/Anton-Slavik → u/[deleted]]

no way anyone will learn that filthy langauge or your history.

And here we go, bigotry fully exposed.

Being forced into a country and forced into learning their language and history?

Protip: Kosovo & Metohija has been part of Serbia for a long, long time.

You are talking as if they are willingly becoming part of Serbia again.

The rule of law doesn't really care for the willingness of individuals.

You either accept and follow the law or you don't and you break it.

Also what language will public services be? Tv channels etc

Serbian. Why is it so incomprehensible for you that Serbian will be the primary language in Serbia? You live in our country, not vice versa, you are obliged to learn the language. If you don't want to integrate, that's on you. Just don't bitch about it later on when you are being denied some service that is provided by the government.

[u/[deleted] → u/Anton-Slavik]

Thanks for quoting what he said, he deleted his post after...

After you post something on the internet you can't undo it !

[u/Linquista → u/Anton-Slavik]

What you are saying basically means that the state will try to assimilate Albanians. Sorry but that is crap. It's worse than the days of Yugoslavia when Albanian was used in public services as well.

Protip: Kosovo & Metohija has been part of Serbia for a long, long time.

Umm okay? But they're not Serbian, it's not their history as a people. Also, I'm sure they'll be happy to learn how dear Serbia didn't kill us and oppress us at all /s

And here we go, bigotry fully exposed

Oh fuck off. You have nothing good to say about us either do you? So don't act all civilized an shit.

[u/Anton-Slavik → u/Linquista]

What you are saying basically means that the state will try to assimilate Albanians.

That is usually the desired goal for any country/state, assimilating and integrating the non-natives (yes, yes, I know about Albanian presence in K&M in the past, just speaking in general right now). Though, I doubt that would really happen, I mean it hasn't happened with the Vlachs living in Serbia or the Hungarians in Vojvodina. Your cultural identity won't be scrubbed away and replaced with a Serbian one. You can coexist with us, side by side. You just don't want to. In fact, you seem to find it greatly repulsive.

But they're not Serbian, it's not their history as a people.

It's the history of the territory/country they live in.

I'm sure they'll be happy to learn how dear Serbia didn't kill us and oppress us at all

I'm sorry, do you expect me to admit to something right here? I have no intention of acknowledging whether anything of the sort happened, not before I see the Albanians of K&M doing the same, and first. I have grown tired of seeing my country being beaten like the proverbial dead horse, of being made the scapegoat for all the wrongs in the region, while others more often than not get away with barely a slap on the wrist or get away with it entirely scot-free. Until the scales of justice are balanced, I have nothing to say on the matter. Either all are culpable or none are.

You have nothing good to say about us either do you?

Aha, now the old transference of blame. I don't have anything good to say about you, true, but that's only where modern-era Albania/Albanians are concerned. Distant past is a different thing. Before the Ottoman Empire invaded and ruined the region for centuries to come, our two people were quite close to each other, allies, if not friends, and we often intermarried if memory serves me right. It's a great shame what happened since then, but I won't bother mourning history that the other party doesn't care about and I do have to live in the present, where for the most part Albanians tend to be hostile towards Serbs and our desire to see wrongs righted and our territory reclaimed properly.

So don't act all civilized an shit.

I don't have to act, I am civilized. Hence this discourse.

[u/Linquista → u/Anton-Slavik]

That is usually the desired goal for any country/state, assimilating and integrating the non-natives (yes, yes, I know about Albanian presence in K&M in the past, just speaking in general right now). Though, I doubt that would really happen, I mean it hasn't happened with the Vlachs living in Serbia or the Hungarians in Vojvodina. Your cultural identity won't be scrubbed away and replaced with a Serbian one. You can coexist with us, side by side. You just don't want to. In fact, you seem to find it greatly repulsive.

Of course it is repulsive. Unless, that is all public services are in Albanian, people are educated in Albanian etc. Serb may be a secondary language learnt in school.

It's the history of the territory/country they live in.

I think that would work somehow for Kosovo specifically, but not about Serbia in general.

Aha, now the old transference of blame.

Uh..no.

I don't have anything good to say about you, true, but that's only where modern-era Albania/Albanians are concerned. Distant past is a different thing. Before the Ottoman Empire invaded and ruined the region for centuries to come, our two people were quite close to each other, allies, if not friends, and we often intermarried if memory serves me right. It's a great shame what happened since then, but I won't bother mourning history that the other party doesn't care about and I do have to live in the present, where for the most part Albanians tend to be hostile towards Serbs and our desire to see wrongs righted and our territory reclaimed properly.

Heh, you see you aren't civilized at all then. And what the hell is that? Praising Albanians from the middle ages? Oh boy I love Ancient Babylonians but I hate modern Iraqis.

where for the most part Albanians tend to be hostile towards Serbs

Naturally

and our desire to see wrongs righted and our territory reclaimed properly.

You wouldn't have lost it in the first place had you not decided to cleanse us form it or repress our rights.

[u/Anton-Slavik → u/Linquista]

Serb may be a secondary language learnt in school.

That's absolute insanity. That's like me emigrating to a foreign country, in sufficiently large numbers of my own countrymen, and then demanding that country change to accommodate me, rather than I integrate to the country I emigrated to. No sane country would allow that, due to the precedent that would set, not to mention future problems that could arise from such a situation.

Heh, you see you aren't civilized at all then.

What?

Praising Albanians from the middle ages?

There's no praise, just acknowledgment that the Serbs and Albanians of that time period used to be close and allies, if not friends. If I'm praising anything, it would be the coexistence and general relationship between our two people back then.

You wouldn't have lost it in the first place had you not decided to cleanse us form it or repress our rights.

Truly, there was such a horrible 'cleansing' that Albanians now comprise, according to your own words, 95% of the population in Kosovo & Metohija. Oh wait. But hey, that totally justifies you ethnically cleansing the place further of any non-Albanians, oppressing the Goran(c)i and the likes.

[u/Linquista → u/Anton-Slavik]

That's absolute insanity. That's like me emigrating to a foreign country, in sufficiently large numbers of my own countrymen, and then demanding that country change to accommodate me, rather than I integrate to the country I emigrated to. No sane country would allow that, due to the precedent that would set, not to mention future problems that could arise from such a situation.

No it's not ffs. These people are being forced under Serbian rule, they are not accepting it under their free will. There is no similarity to emigration here whatsoever.

Truly, there was such a horrible 'cleansing' that Albanians now comprise, according to your own words, 95% of the population in Kosovo & Metohija. Oh wait. But hey, that totally justifies you ethnically cleansing the place further of any non-Albanians, oppressing the Goran(c)i and the likes.

You are talking like one with the intelligence of a YouTube commenter. Either that, or you're trolling.

If you are trolling, the surely you are not purposefully glancing over this. I won't even start with the 90s and the war. People here had it well huh? They left on their own volition. As for the numbers, people obviously returned to their homes after the war (my family included).

[u/Anton-Slavik → u/Linquista]

These people are being forced under Serbian rule

They're not being forced at all. They have the choice to stay or go. If they choose to stay, then yes, it's under the rule of Serbia and all its laws. My point is that they have choice. They are not being forced into anything. If you personally don't want something, that's on you. Your wants and desires do not come into play what is legal and lawful and what is not.

There is no similarity to emigration here whatsoever.

Not even though Germans/Italians expelled a great deal of Serbs during the WW2 occupation and brought in Albanians in greater numbers to replace them? I mean, since you're already bringing up something from over a hundred years ago, I figure WW2 was fair play.

You are talking like one with the intelligence of a YouTube commenter.

And you're talking like someone who keeps avoiding to address the facts of what is going on and what has been going on in Kosovo & Metohija ever since 1999.

If you are trolling, the surely you are not purposefully glancing over this

Truly, something from more than a 100 years ago justifies what you're doing right now. Seriously, how long do you think this kind of reasoning can hold up against actual reason and facts? You're going to keep bringing up history, but won't address the present situation. You won't ever actually admit to your own party being guilty as well for what transpired. You're only going to keep beating the same dead horse over and over and one day when no one gives a damn and people have moved on, you're going to switch your tune to the "Why can't we all just get along?"