r/europeanunion • u/Miao_Yin8964 • 3d ago
Ukraine gets backing of Lithuania to bypass Hungarys EU block
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u/nuttwerx 3d ago
I support Ukranian independence and saying this with all the sympathy to the Ukrainians, but this is really stupid. Ukraine is a country in the middle of a war, had a lot of issues long before Russia's invasion and on no level was compatible with an EU accession. So it doesn't make sense to even suggest this at this time.
That said, Hungary should get punished heavily for the bullshit they've been pulling during the past decade
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u/OkSeason6445 3d ago
My understanding is that it has nothing to do with letting Ukraine in just yet. There are, I believe, 35 chapters in the accession proces that need to be opened and closed where, during each chapter, all members have to agree on Ukraine meeting the requirements of that chapter. A memberstate can veto the closing but also the opening of any chapter. During the chapter the EU helps with meeting the requirements so the entire process is basically getting Ukraine to the point where they are allowrd to join. If Hungary uses its veto to avoid opening any chapter it's basically halting the entire proces for no reason other than Orban being Putins bitch.
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u/Sky-is-here 2d ago
We really need to get rid of veto and unanimity. The union cannot function like this no more.
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u/ARC-9469 Hungary 2d ago
Agreed. Or at least Hungary should be punished by the right to veto being suspended until Orbán is in place.
And yes, I'm saying this as a Hungarian.2
u/Sky-is-here 2d ago
I understand your position but Hungary is not the only problem. Any country could elect a problematic leader like Orban. The problem goes further than just him.
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u/Goncalerta 2d ago
Ukraine has already fulfilled every technical requirement to at least open the first cluster of chapters of negotiations. The only blocker is Hungary's political pro-Russian veto.
It's not like Ukraine will just join overnight or without meeting a strict set of guidelines. But if it is doing progress, we should recognize that progress and give more milestones instead of stalling the negotiations.
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u/NoGreenFlags 1d ago
First cluster of chapters of negotiations is an extremely long way to go until membership
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u/tcptomato 2d ago
The vote is about starting the process of discussing making Ukraine compatible with EU accession.
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u/NoGreenFlags 1d ago
Ukraine needs a huge reform in governance, judiciary, anti-corruption, and economics. It doesn't even fulfil the requirements. It will take a very long time even after the war.
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u/OkRussianMoney 2d ago
Lmao. That's a funny understanding of how democracy works Lithuania. When we elect a pro Russian government in France, wtf you're gonna do? By pass us a swell?
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u/Mafla_2004 2d ago
Pardon the ignorance but doesn't this go against the principles of the EU? Like, we made a system that is supposed to be democratic and that requires unanimosity and then we bypass it when the result isn't of our liking? This goes beyond the scope of the specific case of Ukraine, I side for Ukraine, but if we made a system that requires unanimosity in the name of democracy we must follow it, if it proved it doesn't work then it should have been made a majority based system from the get go, or at least changed a while back, not just bypassed because one voice didn't speak like the rest, it defeats the entire purpose of the system
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u/Miao_Yin8964 2d ago
Survival.
Russia is about to head the Security Council come October.
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u/Mafla_2004 2d ago
Ok but by doing this we'll basically give Russia ammunition to do propaganda against us, I can already see them going "We love democracy only when it benefits us"
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u/GreenEyeOfADemon Italian - EUROPE ENDS IN LUHANSK Slava Ukraini! 2d ago
And? Whatever we do, rashia will always find a way to smear us. Stop worrying about what they say and worry about what they do.
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u/Mafla_2004 2d ago
I do worry about what they do, what I'm talking about is that this undermines our credibility and our values. If we show cracks, it will be easier to hit us.
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u/GreenEyeOfADemon Italian - EUROPE ENDS IN LUHANSK Slava Ukraini! 2d ago
We need to stop being pussies, really.
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u/Mafla_2004 2d ago
With that I agree, we need to stop being US lapdogs and have a voice of our own, so there is no US, no Russia, no China, no whatever in our affairs
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u/GreenEyeOfADemon Italian - EUROPE ENDS IN LUHANSK Slava Ukraini! 2d ago
No, no: we need to stop being afraid of the russia.
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u/OkRussianMoney 2d ago
That propaganda has no place in the real world. The survival card is never going to work.
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u/aknb European Union 2d ago
What they're trying to do is a load of bs. You can't change the rules mid-game just because you don't like them.
And removing the unanimity rule is a problem that could lead to the end of the EU. Imagine most members decide to increase the EU budget but one or two contributors don't want to. Are you now going to force them to part with their money? They might decide to leave the union.
Ursula von der Leyen, Kaja Kallas and the rest of their lot are risking destroying the EU over a non-member state. Their behavior and of European leaders over this is ridiculous to say the least. They seem unable to realize Ukraine lost the war long ago and the sooner they sue for peace the better for everyone - including for Ukraine who keeps losing territory. Wishful thinking won't change that.
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u/Mafla_2004 2d ago
You make a good point
Also you said something very true about the situation in Ukraine, I remember I said that long ago and I was accused of being a russian bot (in the same message I said Russia is a shithole lol)
At this point I think the best move for Europe would just be to federalize: no more disjointed voices that can only do something is everyone agrees, we act as a single voice, united and independent from the USA or Russia or whoever wants to control us next
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u/Slusny_Cizinec Czechia 2d ago
Ursula von der Leyen, Kaja Kallas and the rest of their lot are risking destroying the EU over a non-member state.
Over EU survival. Because Ukrainian lost is essentially a death sentence for the EU
They seem unable to realize Ukraine lost the war long ago and the sooner they sue for peace the better for everyone
Oh I see who you are.
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u/Sky-is-here 2d ago
We need to get rid of unanimity tho, it just doesn't work when we have members that no longer believe in the European project.
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u/OkRussianMoney 2d ago
You can believe in the project but not how it's lead by the clown in bruxelistan
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u/Sky-is-here 2d ago
I believe in the project. And the idea of dismounting what took a hundred years to build because you disagree with some politicians is extremely dumb, okRussianMoney
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u/OkRussianMoney 2d ago
You got manipulated into thinking "the project" could only be made by the pack of clown who fucked it up so far. The EU isn't 100 years old. And nobody is talking about dismantling it. Only changing what failed.
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u/Sky-is-here 2d ago
The EU was founded in 1993, in 1967 we get the Brussels accord that fuse the steel and carbon, economical and euratom structures. But the EU itself has its precedents in things like the Schuman declaration, the Benelux, and ideas from the 1920s and 30s. Destroying everything would set back European federalization so much it wouldn't be worth it.
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u/OkRussianMoney 2d ago
Your 100 years claim is bollocks. Stop trying to save it by performing mental gymnastics.
Also like I ALREADY SAID, there exist version of EU that are different than what the current crap politicians try to sell
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u/Cefalopodul 3d ago
I fully support Ukraine and Moldova in the EU but neither of them are ready to start any form of talks yet. They have immense systemic problems they need to resolve not to mention geopolitical issues like Transdnistria and Ukraine being invaded.
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u/parutparut111 2d ago
"Moldova has two options. The first is to convince Transnistrians that it is better in Europe and join with the rest of the country. Or - give up Transnistria... Transnistria is not Moldova's historical territory, it was 'granted' by an administrative decision..."
Traian Basescu, former president of Romania
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u/Sky-is-here 2d ago
Giving up transinistria would be the easiest and safest long term most probably. But I understand psychologically giving away part of the country is really hard and I won't go to people and tell them what they need to do. But annexing them back would be scary as yet another Russian speaking population Russia will use to influence elections and all that.
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u/parutparut111 2d ago
It’s not that easy to ‘just give up’ on transnistria because russia made sure the region has key industries. For RM it’s not only a political issue, but also an economic one which makes the dilemma more complicated than it looks.
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u/Sky-is-here 2d ago
I understand but I must ask. They really don't control anything from transinistria at the moment do they? It's entirely independent. So how can key industries be located there.
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u/tcptomato 2d ago
Starting the talks helps them fix their systemic issues.
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u/Cefalopodul 2d ago
Not really
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u/tcptomato 2d ago
Yes, really. Considering that is how Romania also progressed, you should know ...
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u/Cefalopodul 2d ago
That is not how Romania progressed at all. Romania was required to show concrete improvements before technical talks started.
We were given a big fat task list and technical talks only started when most chapters were cleared.
The only reason Romania was even considered as a potential candidate because Tony Blair made a deal with Constantinescu to vouch for Romania in exchange of Romania allowing NATO to traverse its air space and use its railways and roads in 1999.
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u/tcptomato 1d ago
You do know that we're talking about opening those chapters now so that work can be done to clear them?
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u/NoGreenFlags 1d ago
"Hungary’s Orbán may soften stance on Ukraine’s EU accession after Trump call, Politico reports"
not even Trump changed Orbán stance.
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u/SeparateOne1 14h ago
IF these "membership talks" are only to tell Ukraine where it needs to improve and giving them a guideline that will help them to fulfil the requirements THAN why does it need a vote at all? It seems like that it's more than that.
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u/Impossible_Ad4789 1h ago
Im all for a quick integration of Ukraine but please don't forget the balkans over this.
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u/MrNotAFed 2d ago
Albania and Montenegro look like that starving kid meme just waiting for a drop of water when Ukraine has the tap in its mouth.
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u/Vlacheslav 1d ago
They shouldn't be allowed to join either. We need federalization not more countries.
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u/usesidedoor 2d ago
For anyone familiar with the legal aspect of this, can such a thing be done within the current legal framework?
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u/PLUTO_HAS_COME_BACK 2d ago
Which one is preferrable, though?
Politics Analyst Reveals The True Reason Behind The Ukraine War | Prof. Jeffrey Sachs #shorts
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u/Lethalmud 2d ago
What a stupid point. Why would nato have to promise not to add members?
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u/PLUTO_HAS_COME_BACK 2d ago
Why do you think Russia must accept everything Nato is doing?
I don't mind if you think it's worth dying for.
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u/OkRussianMoney 2d ago
NATO was made in the hope to block Russia and creating a stalemate.
NATO did not respect it.
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u/OkRussianMoney 2d ago
This should be repeated every where.
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u/PLUTO_HAS_COME_BACK 2d ago
Easy said than done, right?
You and your family members are not the ones dying for it, though.
In which country do you live?
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u/OkRussianMoney 2d ago
I live in a country that is the least affected. But even I understand how bad NATO and EU forever growths is
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u/ballimi 3d ago
Can we swap Hungary for Ukraine?