We still have time to stop Chat Control.

[u/anonimwriter]

but send simple letters to https://fightchatcontrol.eu/ (although useful) is not enough. We must organize real demonstrations if we want to make a difference. Only one could be enough to attract media attention. We are heading towards a 1984 scenario

[u/kuddoo]

I live in Romania. We had chat control for about 50years, untill 1989. Trust me. It’s bad.

[u/snarkyalyx → u/kuddoo]

It's a problem if the government uses your data, but not American mega corporations, that's why capitalism better!

[u/kbad10 → u/snarkyalyx]

Both are bad. If they want to find pedophiles, they'll have better luck checking chats of politicians and top govt officers who are exempt from chat control.

[u/trisul-108 → u/kuddoo]

When they say "chat control" they mean a technical solution that does not allow you to send children abuse pictures without actually reading your communications. Are you sure this is what you had in Romania?

[u/kbad10 → u/trisul-108]

What they will actually do is, they will read your every message citing "they want to protect children", but instead they will use it to persecute anyone who opposes the rule of white christian conservative racist leaders.

[u/trisul-108 → u/kbad10]

But the proposed technology does not enable them to do that. The government compiles the fingerprints of illegal material and your app downloads those fingerprints, the app calculates the fingerprint of your communications looking for the same fingerprints. The government has no access to your messages and your app does not read the content of them, just calculates its fingerprints using the same cryptographic techniques that it also uses to encrypt your messages.

People are going around creating FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt) under false pretences about this, I just refuse to fall for it.

[u/kbad10 → u/trisul-108]

But the proposed technology does not enable them to do that. The government compiles the fingerprints of illegal material and your app downloads those fingerprints, the app calculates the fingerprint of your communications looking for the same fingerprints.

The proposed technique allows them to do exactly that. The extracted perceptual hash can be used to recognise and classify any and everything and it can (will) be used to conduct mass surveillance.

The government has no access to your messages and your app does not read the content of them, just calculates its fingerprints using the same cryptographic techniques that it also uses to encrypt your messages.

The govt will have access to your messages through the backdoor we just talked about. The "fingerprint" you mentioned can be also matched with any other kind of database, including anything that the govt thinks is suspicious, such as anyone discussing genocide or talking about protests. On top of that the proposal includes collection of data to train AI to further strengthen this mass surveillance.

People are going around creating FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt) under false pretences about this, I just refuse to fall for it.

Nah, the fact is they chose to implement mass surveillance when the people working in the field aren't even suggesting mass surveillance as top solution. 

[u/CapoDiMalaSperanza]

At this point I hope for WWIII. There's no hope at this point.

[u/trisul-108 → u/CapoDiMalaSperanza]

So, software preventing you from sending children abuse photos without reading your communications is worse than WWIII. Gimme a break.

[u/hgg → u/trisul-108]

It will not prevent sending children photos... There are plenty of ways for the criminals to circumvent these "controls". The common law abiding citizen on the other hand will be surveyed and, one day, when a more authoritarian government is elected they will use this system to really control the people. There are other reasons why it's a bad idea to do this, but the main argument for is completely bogus.

[u/trisul-108 → u/hgg]

The common law abiding citizen will not "be surveilled" by the proposed technology. All that happens is that fingerprints of illegal content are uploaded and the app ensures the common law abiding citizen does not send them to others. There is no capacity in the tech to e.g. read your messages. It's exactly the same level of "surveillance" as your virus-checker, spam-checker or encryption software.

What is bogus is the panicked response to all of this.

[u/hgg → u/trisul-108]

The point is you’re introducing a surveillance technology that will do nothing to stop criminals from sharing child abuse material - It's trivial to find other ways to share files besides using popular IM software.

Yes, knowing the fingerprints of the images you share, when you share them, and maybe with whom you share them is surveillance.

My virus-checker, spam-checker or the encryption software do not upload anything to anybody.

[u/trisul-108 → u/hgg]

All of this is just malign exaggeration. This is not really a surveillance technology because no one reads your communications. You say criminals will evade, and this argument is used all the time while in practice criminals are caught in such schemes.

This scheme does not share fingerprints of your messages, it just gives your application the fingerprints of messages that must not be distributed.

Your virus checker updates virus fingerprints all the time. This scheme would work exactly like that. Your virus checker is an order of magnitude more dangerous as surveillance potential and no one complains. People even install Kaspersky which has ties to the Russian FSB without thinking much about it.

This whole storyline is wildly exaggerated, just to get people riled up.

[u/wolhol → u/trisul-108]

Ok then why are the politicians excluded? If no one reads the convo it should be fine for politicians if they do not text illegal things right?

[u/trisul-108 → u/wolhol]

As in everything else in this campaign of disinformation and exaggeration, this is inaccurate. Politician's person accounts are not exempt, what is exempt is professional accounts, such as accounts used for national security, law enforcement, or military purposes.

[u/kbad10 → u/trisul-108]

The common law abiding citizen will not "be surveilled" by the proposed technology.

Are you for real? Just like how they "didn't" use millions of copyrighted books downloaded from a piracy site to train AI models, because those in power are so benevolent, nice and law abiding and only do good things. They will definitely not use chat control to persecute minorities, under and unprivileged groups, suppress & persecute opposition and protests. Because that's how all works in real world. 

[u/trisul-108 → u/kbad10]

Just like how they "didn't" use millions of copyrighted books downloaded from a piracy site to train AI models,

Yes, AI companies have done this, but the proposed chat technology does not enable anyone to read your messages. They might do that anyway, but not using the proposed solution which does not even enable that.

[u/kbad10 → u/trisul-108]

proposed chat technology does not enable anyone to read your messages

It does.

[u/trisul-108 → u/kbad10]

It does not, it just calculates fingerprints and compares them to known cases of child abuse fingerprints. That does not constitute "reading a message" ... For us, normal citizens, the comparison will always be negative and nothing at all will be known about the content of messages. For those who spread such abuse, all that will be ascertained is the occurrence of such messages without any other "reading" of messages.

In fact, existing virus checkers are capable of really reading all our messages and we take them entirely on trust. Even the ones, like Kaspersky, that work for the FSB and no one is raising much of a stink about it.

[u/kbad10 → u/trisul-108]

Let me correct you,

it just calculates fingerprints and compares them to

anything they want to compare with.

This is backdoor access. What you are saying they will take hash of your messages and "only compare it with CSAM material". No, they won't only compare it with CSAM, they will compare it anything they want. Anything that looks like protests or opposition, anything that looks like certain flag, anything that looks like different from mainstream political discourse. Please don't mislead people.

In fact, existing virus checkers are capable of really reading all our messages and we take them entirely on trust. Even the ones, like Kaspersky, that work for the FSB and no one is raising much of a stink about it.

These are not default govt mandated.

[u/trisul-108 → u/kbad10]

anything they want to compare with.

It doesn't work like that because the government is not comparing it to anything, the government only provides the fingerprints to be compared. You app will be doing the comparison.

This is backdoor access.

Backdoor access is something entirely different. Backdoor access is a hidden method or vulnerability that bypasses normal security to gain unauthorized entry to a computer system, network, or application. There is no entry to a computer system or application in this case.

Please don't mislead people.

Now you are projecting.

First there was talk of "reading all your messages", then "scanning all messages", then this "backdoor" ... all of these claims are false or misleading.

[u/kbad10 → u/trisul-108]

If they want to prevent child abuse then why are politicians exempt from it, when in every big pedophilia scandals politicians have been the biggest culprits? They have no interest in protecting children, they want a surveillance state that is worse than Soviet Union. They want to regulate every word spoken by everyone.

And going into technicallities of it, it won't work. EU doesn't even have sovereign capabilities to provide cloud for it's military and have to depend on foreign countries that are actively threatening EU member states. So they are going to rely on foreign technology owned by foreign neo Nazis. And if you actually ask people who work in child abuse prevention, the problem is not there is not enough data, the problem is . And the "solution" is so badly conceived, it'll lead to flood of irrelevant reports, mostly false positives, prosecution of innocent people only to find them not guilty, further strain the already overwhelmed systems which will actually cause further deteriorate current child protection systems.

The bill is to establish a surveillance state to spy on and suppress any kind of opposition or protests.

[u/wolhol → u/kbad10]

Mal abgesehen davon das Kindesmissbrauch meistens im engen Umfeld der Kinder passiert und da greift keine Chatüberwachung. Man könnte da mal die Strafen verschärfen... Kenne eine die is von ihrem Vater missbraucht worden und der is mit pratkisch fast nix davon gekommen...

[u/kbad10 → u/wolhol]

That's the thing. They don't really want to prevent child abuse in the first place. The goal is mass surveillance.