r/eurovision • u/SuspiciousMaterial85 Due vite • 2d ago
💬 Discussion 25fps of 50fps
Eurovision Song Contest 2024 is the first time ever that stage performances are filmed and broadcasted in 25 frames per second in a technique called "Progressive Segmented Frames". In short, it is shot in 25 frames per second and broadcasted with double the frame rate. This differs from the one shot and broadcasted in native 50 frames per second like in 2023 and before. Notice short fade between title card and the actual performances
According to the organizing committee in SVT (Swedish Television), this kind of technique will give the perception of music videos, but it still have a feel of live TV show. This has been tried in Melodifestivalen months prior.
This kind of technique then used again by SRG SSR the next year. And if I have to be frank, some of the 2025 songs are "okay" to be shot and broadcasted these way.
What are your thoughts? Shall ORF keep this technique for 2026, or should they go back to 50 frames per second?
Edit: wrong title
17
u/Silly-Payment1192 2d ago edited 2d ago
If you notice, SSR SRG rehired SVT and LiveEdit team consisting mix of Swedish, French who filmed Eurovision 2024, joining with Swiss personel to film Eurovision 2025. And the show is more like Eurovision 2024 2.0 in terms of recycling many elements of Malmo 2024 not just camerawork but also many other stuff . Personally I wouldn't mind if ORF tryna do by their own to promote their country identity but it seems like EBU is approaching to brand sustainability so they would encourage ORF to use LiveEdit team as part EBU active resource to minimise production cost. Looking back to Eurovision 2015, ORF's camerawork wasn't that good and versatile comparing to Eurovision 2014 in Copenhagen and Eurovision 2016 in Stockholm
13
u/Kubasratzka 2d ago
2024 used PsF but 2025 did not, at least not in the same way.
In 2024 the cameras were outputting 25 PsF so the actual footage coming to the truck was never non-psf 50, but PsF "25" together with the shutter etc being set in a way that everything had motion blur, except the steadicams which were sending regular 1080i50 and then framerate was changed to 25 via software through the mixer. The broadcast itself, graphics etc. was regular 1080i50.
In 2025, this changed (for the better but still 25) by the cameras sending your normal 50 frames to the truck, and then when the song starts, they essentially put a "filter" on the camera signals in the vision mixer, to explain it in very simple terms- imagine it like dropping a 50fps video into a premiere timeline that's in 25fps, you get the 25 output while the source is 50. Which means that somewhere, there is a full 50fps version of the entire show as all camera signals etc. are recorded in the truck, and then there's the "master" recording with all effects etc. This explains why all non-performance segments are in 50fps.
If you manage to watch a version of the show in 50, you can notice that during some performances (poison cake as an example, 2:01, at the "sweet revenge" lyric right before it cuts to the top shot of the dancers), the 25fps filter drops out and you see the frame rate go to 50 for a split second.
Personally, forcing all acts to use 25fps is a horrible choice, artistically speaking. It's not a music video no matter how much they want to say it is. Same with the defaulted aspect ratio. This is a TV show, not a movie.
The only song which I would 100% agree with being in 25 is voyage, because they actually had a Cinema camera to use for it! That looked like a live music video feel. It was beautiful. Not like the "parody" that they do for the normal performances which just ruins it for me. All delegations should have a choice, do you want 50 or 25 and that weird movie aspect ratio?
Milkshake Man/Ich Komme or Survivor look absolutely stunning in 50, it looks so lively as if you're standing there! I've been converting these shows to 50 because I just can't stand looking at that choppiness.
Objectively- everyone should have a choice, and not be forced to it. I've heard some delegations don't really like it. I was very happy with the amount of performances that were in 16:9, using the entire canvas instead of putting a PNG on the top & bottom and calling it "cinematic".
Ultimately, I hope ORF will go back to 50.
5
u/Used-Ladder-6193 Zari 2d ago
Honestly i was surprised to find out about this whole thing. At first i panicked thinking they were downgrading the quality but then i saw the fancy descriptions from u and op and i thought “it’s SVT they know what they’re doing”
However looking at your Poison Cake example i am very surprised that the 50fps moment is actually VERY evident, it’s maddening really. I never even noticed they downgraded the quality starting 2024 but now i cant unsee it. They better switch back to 50
0
u/Used-Ladder-6193 Zari 2d ago
Do you mind sharing clips of milkshake man, ich komme and survivor in 50fps like you said? Sharing is caring!
3
u/Kubasratzka 2d ago
It's not really about downgrading the quality (although the broadcasted satfeed does have a lower bitrate since 2024 which might explain some things looking a bit worse to some people) but rather wanting it to look "like a music video", per the directors words, who's been the same for the past two years. I think it's time for a change. 2025 was essentially ESC 2024 with the amount of SVT/Swedes working on it in core positions.
For the 50fps clips, they aren't native, they are converts that I did with my friend. We didn't do individual ones but full shows. Here they are on gdrive, beware the size is in tens of GBs. :) SF1 SF2 Grand Final
There have been some alterations in the later shows, so just keep that in mind. :) Need to be downloaded to view in full quality, Google Drive compresses preview videos into 25/30fps.
If mods don't approve this- please comment and I'll remove the link. Thanks!
3
u/Kubasratzka 2d ago
Speaking of quality, the motion blur in 2024 was really the worst offender of that entire year. A mess
1
3
u/Silly-Payment1192 2d ago
Otherwise I think Cue Pilot is better if they know how to use it like UK hosting 2023 and Netherlands hosting in 2021 ( with help from Swedish crew) cause it's giving more live feeling with 50fps than Live Edit
3
u/LonelyTreat3725 1d ago edited 1d ago
Tbh i'm with SVT on this one, i prefer the cinematographic feel to the live feel.
Look at Maneskin performance at 50fps..
The only thing i can notice is how dirty and scratched is the floor
Måneskin - Zitti E Buoni - Eurovision 2021 - Italy 🇮🇹 - Grand Final - 4K50 Video
1
u/AliceFlynn Europapa 1d ago
I have no real technical clue what you're saying, but the performances this year looked absolutely fantastic, maybe this had to do with that?
•
u/AutoModerator 2d ago
Welcome to /r/Eurovision, and congratulations to our winner, JJ from Austria! /r/Eurovision is a diverse community, and everyone should feel welcome here. If you see comments that break our community rules, please help our moderation team by clicking the "report" button on any such comment. Your support allows us to keep our community safe. Thank you and enjoy your time here.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.