r/exredpill • u/Aggravating-Rain-30 • 21d ago

Animal behavior

Why are outdated examples of wildlife behavior, especially wolves, used as part of incel “philosophy”?? It makes no sense and doesn’t resemble what actual wild animals do.

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u/LolliaSabina 20d ago

We are animals, but not "wild animals." "Domesticated" means "adapted from a wild or natural state (as by selective breeding) to live in close association with humans," and while I hope no one is selectively breeding people, we clearly are raised to live in close association with other humans.

That said, we obviously also have far more agency than animals, so the comparison is fairly useless whether we're talking wild or domestic animals. We have instincts, but we also have the ability to ignore them.

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u/PutsWomenOnPedestal 20d ago

we obviously also have far more agency than animals,

In principle, but seeing that most people end up pursuing the same things (food, territory and mates) it’s hard to see what good this supposed extra agency does for us.

We have instincts, but we also have the ability to ignore them.

Yes we are the only animals who can even try to go against instinct. Not that we are good at it but it’s a start on the path to transcending our ape nature

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u/LolliaSabina 20d ago

First, not everyone pursues a mate -- there have been people who were voluntarily single all throughout recorded history.

Second, if you're interpreting "territory" as "resources," of course people are going to pursue those, along with food. The alternative is essentially suicide. Some people might acquire more resources than they could ever use in a lifetime, but that's another key difference between us and animals. Animals don't generally kill more food than they can reasonably eat. They can't grow crops. They can't preserve extra food during abundant times to have in reserve for leaner times. They can't trade for goods with their neighbors.

They also can't choose not to mate. They can't choose not to reproduce.

I'm not sure what your point is here. Just because we have basic survival instincts, like animals, doesn't mean that we are beholden to ALL instincts the way they are.

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u/PutsWomenOnPedestal 20d ago

My point is we are constrained by physical limitations and natural selection just as much as animals are. Even if our mentality is more sophisticated we are not free. People who voluntarily don’t breed select themselves out of the gene pool (good for them) but this only means that the world would be populated by people who couldn’t control their breeding instincts. Natural selection curtails our freedom and happiness. We are chained by biology as a species even if not at the individual level

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u/LolliaSabina 19d ago

You can't say that everyone who had children "couldn't control their breeding instincts" though -- many, many people had kids because they wanted and planned for them. With the availability of birth control, I would argue that more children than ever before are born because they are wanted, rather than because people like sex.

And of course we're chained by biology to an extent, because we can't violate the laws of nature. But it's certainly not to the same extent as animals. As the most obvious example, women don't go into heat and mate with whatever male happens to be around, the way dogs or pigs or deer do. We have the ability to choose a partner based on appropriateness rather than proximity.

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u/PutsWomenOnPedestal 19d ago

And of course we're chained by biology to an extent, because we can't violate the laws of nature

That was my overall point

You can't say that everyone who had children "couldn't control their breeding instincts" though -- many, many people had kids because they wanted and planned for them.

Yes agreed, but the fact is they still wanted and planned for them. The details are different from other animals but natural selection and sexual selection continues especially since many women can now choose who to mate with (which is a good thing). Patriarchy is unnatural. With the retreat of patriarchy (which hopefully continues) sexual selection will have a stronger effect. Women will finally guide the species towards what they see as ideal. Men will start evolving personality and empathy and connection!